Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #parrot, 2011-04-29

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:01 cotto_work the first two are pretty unsurprising, given how nqp uses lexicals
00:01 cotto_work still instructive
00:02 plobsing we could make fill_params a little simpler if the x_keyed vtable override magic handled filling keys with context data in stead of the general path
00:03 jnthn__ cotto_work: The sad thing with lexicals is how much we know but throw away.
00:04 jnthn__ I'm pretty sure we can do better there from NQP's side.
00:05 jnthn__ How does fill_params relate to lexical usage, ooc?
00:05 cotto_work no relation
00:05 cotto_work ambiguous use of English on my part
00:05 jnthn__ ah, OK :)
00:05 jnthn__ I thought I'd missed something. :)
00:06 cotto_work fill_params is unsurprising for anything that uses subs
00:06 jnthn__ aye
00:06 jnthn__ It'll be a few months yet before I get to inlining though.
00:07 jnthn__ But I expect once I implement that we'll get a big win, given the cost of sub invocation.
00:07 jnthn__ Method inlining is a LOT more difficult though, and we do a lot of method calls.
00:07 jnthn__ And inlining only helps for really small things that are good candidates for it.
00:08 cotto_work I don't expect inlining to be a general-purpose solution.
00:08 jnthn__ No
00:08 jnthn__ Perl 6 will want to do it quite aggressively on operators
00:09 cotto_work optimizing pcc will be more productive
00:09 jnthn__ But I see that as independent of optimizing pcc really. Even if PCC was really fast, I'd still be looking to inline those.
00:10 jnthn__ The result of the inlining of some really simple things may, oddly, be smaller than the amount of bytecode we'd emit to make the call.
00:10 jnthn__ (I'm thinking arithmetic operations here...)
00:10 whiteknight we've known for a long time that the lexicals implementation is sub-optimal
00:11 jnthn__ whiteknight: Well, it's not just a "Parrot problem", it's an integration problem. (more)
00:11 whiteknight and I've suggested a number of changes to fill_params that could improve that situation. I'm sure there are others we've never considered
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00:11 jnthn__ I suspect the compiler knows more than Parrot can from the PIR about how lexical accesses could be done.
00:12 whiteknight jnthn__: if the fixed-size allocator is a hotpath, surely it performs better than malloc would?
00:12 jnthn__ whiteknight: It may well be doing, in which case it's awesome even though it's a hotpath. :)
00:12 jnthn__ whiteknight: It's just something that stood out in the profile.
00:12 whiteknight last numbers I saw showed the fixed-size allocator being better than malloc for most workloads
00:13 whiteknight so we can try to improve it, but it's never before been a high priority
00:13 jnthn__ Right, that's why I mentioned it. :)
00:13 jnthn__ I've never seen it show up high in a profile before.
00:13 jnthn__ :)
00:14 jnthn__ (I'm not complaining, just providing some observations, btw...)
00:14 whiteknight jnthn__: maybe 6model has become so awesome that even the most awesome parts of parrot are less awesome than 6model
00:14 jnthn__ heh :)
00:15 jnthn__ It tends to show up a long way down in the profile.
00:15 whiteknight ok
00:15 jnthn__ Which is a good sign.
00:15 jnthn__ OTOH, the 6model core does very little really.
00:15 whiteknight with fill_params, I can think of ways to fix that and streamline it. With lexicals we're at the same roadblock we've been at: We have no reasonable plan forward
00:16 jnthn__ The most expensive bit of 6model at the moment in the profile is actually a path that we'd not take if nqp was actually taking advantage of it fully.
00:19 jnthn__ whiteknight: I may be able to prototype something for lexicals.
00:20 jnthn__ May be a few weeks before I get chance.
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00:21 whiteknight jnthn__: no need to prototype. We're all code monkeys here. All we need is a design
00:22 whiteknight jnthn__: Go grab a pack of crayons and an old napkin. Sketch something out and send it to us.
00:22 whiteknight jnthn__: We'll do all the hard work
00:25 jnthn__ whiteknight: Well, the easiest idea is having a find_lex/store_lex variant that takes a number of frames down where the lexical is located (e.g. 0 = this callframe, 1 = one down, etc). Then we just follow the outer pointer that many times and do the hash lookup, rather than having to go and do an exists hash lookup in every callframe.
00:25 jnthn__ whiteknight: PAST::Compiler certainly has enough information available to be able to use that op.
00:27 jnthn__ Plus the exists checks can go away totally.
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00:28 jnthn__ "If you said it was in 1 frame down and there's no lexical called that one frame down, it's your own stupid fault."
00:28 jnthn__ :)
00:29 jnthn__ sleep for me... &
00:29 cotto_work 'night
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00:32 whiteknight that is an easy idea, but I wonder how we extend it to work with closures
00:32 whiteknight er, nevermind. Stupid question
00:33 whiteknight now I have to change around all my priorities to include lexicals
00:34 plobsing ping kid51
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01:40 kid51 plobsing pong
01:44 plobsing kid51: are you still seeing those assertion failures?
01:45 kid51 I just pulled in that branch on darwin/ppc and am reconfiguring and building;
01:45 kid51 it will be several minutes
01:46 kid51 If you backscrolled to last night, you can see that I couldn't figure out how to get gdb past the Darwin DYLD problem.
01:49 plobsing looking at the backscroll, you got some mistaken advice. it isn't "start", it is "run" (or "r" for short).
01:51 plobsing it complained about dynlibs because gdb only loads the symbols for dynamically linked libraries once the library has been loaded (and you haven't run the program yet)
01:51 plobsing but you shouldn't even need to break. gdb should break at the assertion failure point automatically.
01:54 cotto ~~
01:54 kid51 keeping fingers crossed
01:57 nopaste "kid51" at 192.168.1.3 pasted "same failed assertion" (27 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/42468
01:59 kid51 We have to figure out a more robust way of debugging on Darwin.
02:00 plobsing does darwin have anything like LD_PRELOAD?
02:01 kid51 I don't know.  I'm far from knowledgeable about Darwin
02:03 plobsing can you put the library where gdb wants it just for the duration of your debugging session?
02:08 kid51 Perhaps this:  http://tinyurl.com/6bouhwz
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02:10 plobsing ok, I can work with that
02:11 plobsing use 'otool -L ./parrot-nqp' to show what libraries it expects. you should see libparrot somewhere. based on that output we can cheat with DYLD_LILBRARY_PATH
02:14 kid51 I just created this symbolic link:  sudo ln -s /Users/jimk/work/pseudoinstall/lib/libparrot.dylib  /usr/local/lib/libparrot.dylib
02:15 nopaste "kid51" at 192.168.1.3 pasted "after creating symbolic link to a libparrot.dylib" (15 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/42469
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02:16 nopaste "kid51" at 192.168.1.3 pasted "otool -L ./parrot-nqp" (9 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/42470
02:17 plobsing and when you run this program normally (no gdb)? does it exit normally without even a hiccup?
02:18 kid51 Yes.
02:18 kid51 ./parrot-nqp --target=pir --output=compilers/opsc/gen/Ops/File.pir compilers/opsc/src/Ops/File.pm
02:18 kid51 compilers/opsc/gen/Ops/File.pir
02:18 kid51 is created
02:19 plobsing without the symlink even?
02:20 plobsing are we debugging the wrong program here?
02:20 kid51 No, that was with the symlink in /usr/local/lib
02:20 kid51 This is starting to remind me of a situation we were in a couple of months back.
02:20 kid51 Probably when bacek was doing GC work.
02:21 plobsing so if you remove the symlink, or change the name temporarily, does the assertion get violated?
02:21 kid51 I tried 'make' to see what happens when I continued.
02:21 kid51 It failed on the *next* step:
02:21 kid51 make
02:21 kid51 ./parrot-nqp --target=pir --output=compilers/opsc/ge​n/Ops/Compiler/Grammar.pir compilers/opsc/src/Ops/Compiler/Grammar.pm
02:21 kid51 src/gc/gc_gms.c:1231: failed assertion '!PObj_on_free_list_TEST(pmc) || !"Resurrecting of dead objects is not supported"'
02:21 kid51 make: *** [compilers/opsc/gen/Ops/Compiler/Grammar.pir] Abort trap
02:22 kid51 I then ran that program manually.
02:22 kid51 ./parrot-nqp --target=pir --output=compilers/opsc/ge​n/Ops/Compiler/Grammar.pir compilers/opsc/src/Ops/Compiler/Grammar.pm
02:22 kid51 And then called 'make' again.  'make' is now continuing as it should.
02:22 plobsing that is, well, odd
02:23 kid51 Yes, but as I say, I have the feeling we've been here before.
02:24 kid51 'make' fails on a certain step, but if you execute the failed command as its own shell command, it completes that step, which permits you to resume 'make'.  Repeat as needed.
02:24 kid51 It failed again, but it got farther along this time.
02:24 plobsing are you running a parallel make? maybe that would put memory pressures that would affect GC.
02:25 nopaste "kid51" at 192.168.1.3 pasted "3rd fail point" (10 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/42471
02:25 kid51 plobsing: On this old machine?  *No* possibility of parallel anything.
02:26 plobsing well this failure is something I can take a stab at.
02:26 kid51 I am going to have to sleep soon, so feel free to paste suggestions or send email.
02:27 plobsing nm /usr/local/lib/libparrot.dylib | grep Parrot_dt_get_datatype_name
02:27 kid51 I will now try to build with my "regular" configuration on this box, i.e., cc=gcc and g++ for link and ld.
02:27 kid51 $ nm /usr/local/lib/libparrot.dylib | grep Parrot_dt_get_datatype_name
02:27 kid51 0005fe30 T _Parrot_dt_get_datatype_name
02:27 kid51 U _Parrot_dt_get_datatype_name
02:27 kid51 U _Parrot_dt_get_datatype_name
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03:03 plobsing msg kid51 Can you run the parrot_nci_thunk_gen failure through gdb and break on Parrot_dlsym? Please try to confirm that the call with symbol="Parrot_dt_get_datatype_name" (ignore other calls eg: for Parrot_lib_bit_ops_load) has handle=NULL, that your system's dlsym is being called, and that that function is returning null.
03:03 aloha OK. I'll deliver the message.
03:39 dalek TT #2043 closed by plobsing++: .loadlib works when compiling, but not when running PBC
03:39 dalek TT #2043: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/2043
03:54 dalek TT #1374 closed by plobsing++: :immediate semantics have changed
03:54 dalek TT #1374: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/1374
03:54 dalek TT #2041 closed by plobsing++: :immediate ignored when compiling to PBC
03:54 dalek TT #2041: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/2041
03:59 dalek parrot: 0ed916d | petdance++ | / (2 files):
03:59 dalek parrot: updating function arg modifiers
03:59 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/0ed916d913
03:59 dalek parrot/tt1931-nci-parameters-deprecation: cfc1a11 | petdance++ | / (32 files):
03:59 dalek parrot/tt1931-nci-parameters-deprecation: Merge branch 'tt1931-nci-parameters-deprecation' of github.com:parrot/parrot into tt1931-nci-parameters-deprecation
03:59 dalek parrot/tt1931-nci-parameters-deprecation: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/cfc1a1124e
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04:12 dalek parrot: d93b697 | petdance++ | lib/Parrot/Pmc2c/PMC (2 files):
04:12 dalek parrot: adding consts and proper function annotations for generated code
04:12 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/d93b6974cc
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04:30 tadzik theory: ping
04:30 tadzik good morning #parrot
04:31 PerlJam good evening tadzik :)
04:37 theory tadzik: I get the impression that maybe our days don't quite line up.
04:39 tadzik theory: that may be. I just woke up, it's 6:39 AM
04:40 theory tadzik: Oh, good, so by the time I wake up tomorrow, you might still be around.
04:41 theory Anyway, off to bed shortly, will try pinging you in the morning.
04:41 theory But just wanted to introduce myself, see if maybe we could swap distribution war stories.
04:41 theory I just launched PGXN, a CPAN for PostgreSQL.
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04:43 theory http://pgxn.org/
04:43 theory Anyway, gnite.
04:45 tadzik oh, nice. Gnite
04:45 theory API docs: https://github.com/pgxn/pgxn-api/wiki
04:45 * theory & # Zzzzzzz
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08:37 GeJ_ is now known as GeJ
08:38 GeJ Good morning everyone.
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10:23 bacek ~~
10:23 bacek msg PerlJam, yes, thanks for it.
10:23 aloha OK. I'll deliver the message.
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12:25 whiteknight good morning, #parrot
12:34 * coke_ really needs to sign back in from his normal location.
12:38 whiteknight not in a normal location?
13:00 coke_ I'm coming in through feather instead of my home box.
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13:49 dalek tracwiki: v19 | fperrad++ | ListOfPlatforms
13:49 dalek tracwiki: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/wiki/List​OfPlatforms?version=19&action=diff
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15:20 dalek parrot: 4981ede | fperrad++ | t/ (4 files):
15:20 dalek parrot: [t] fix shebang (when parrot is not yet installed)
15:20 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/4981ede385
15:20 cotto ~~
15:23 dukeleto cotto: mornin'
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15:32 whiteknight good morning, dukeleto and cotto
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16:42 benabik ~~
16:48 whiteknight hello benabik
16:48 benabik 'lo whiteknight!
16:48 benabik Anything exciting happening?
16:48 whiteknight not a thing, no. Deadlines looming at work, so I'm stressing about that
16:49 benabik Ditto for me with s/work/school
16:49 lucian AAAAAHHH!
16:49 * lucian really hates his uni work
16:51 whiteknight lucian: why? What's to hate?
16:52 lucian whiteknight: stupid deadlines, stupid requirements
16:52 lucian i likely complain too much too
17:01 dalek tracwiki: v150 | fperrad++ | Languages
17:01 dalek tracwiki: update with 3.3.0
17:01 dalek tracwiki: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/wiki/L​anguages?version=150&action=diff
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17:07 * dukeleto likes to complain as well
17:08 dukeleto Why is it that wifi cards choose the day before travel to freak out?
17:08 whiteknight and what's the deal with airplane food?
17:09 dukeleto whiteknight: very small profit margins. Airlines lose money on food and coach class, barely break a profit with first class
17:10 whiteknight dukeleto: so that sounds to me like an argument to stop having coach class and food
17:14 dukeleto whiteknight: they require the law of averages, though. just first class doesn't work
17:15 whiteknight they make decent money on business class I've heard tell
17:19 whiteknight I don't see any reason why not. Fewer flights, fewer seats, each seat worth more money
17:19 whiteknight somebody could make it work
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17:28 arnsholt IIRC airlines are required to feed you on flights longer than some amount of time in Europe
17:29 [hercynium] is now known as hercynium
17:31 PerlJam Southwest airlines continues to be profitable.
17:32 dalek tracwiki: v29 | allison++ | ChrootSetup
17:32 dalek tracwiki: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/wiki/Ch​rootSetup?version=29&action=diff
17:33 benabik I think airlines have to feed you on long flights in the US too...  But they're not required to feed you _good_ food.
17:34 arnsholt Oh, certainly not over here either. The food's horrid, obviously
17:34 * dukeleto found some failures on master: http://smolder.parrot.org/app/​projects/report_details/15803
17:34 dukeleto plobsing: turns out some of those errors I told you about on your branch are also on master: http://smolder.parrot.org/app/​projects/report_details/15803
17:35 dukeleto that is a "plain parrot", with everything turned off
17:35 lucian i'm not convinced it's horrid because they don't make money on it
17:35 lucian it's more hit&miss
17:35 lucian i've had excellent food on planes a few times
17:35 lucian and on the flight back, same food & caterer & airline, it was crap
17:36 lucian i think it has something to do with hydration/heating
17:38 dukeleto how are the gsoc students doing?
17:38 dukeleto anybody ripping into code yet?
17:38 dukeleto or are finals still looming?
17:39 lucian personally, i have *no* time for anything but uni
17:39 lucian likely until 13th may
17:39 lucian then there's exams, but those aren't a proble
17:42 benabik dukeleto: School until the 20th for me.
17:46 bubaflub school for me till the 13th; i walk on the 17th
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17:54 rohit_nsit08 hello #parrot
17:55 rohit_nsit08 http://rohitnsit08.blogspot.com​/2011/04/cafe-experiments.html
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17:57 Andy Why do we only have one builder on taptinder.org
17:58 Andy Do we need help there?
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18:02 plobsing dukeleto: is that failure still happening?
18:04 dalek tracwiki: v30 | allison++ | ChrootSetup
18:04 dalek tracwiki: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/wiki/Ch​rootSetup?version=30&action=diff
18:07 plobsing dukeleto: ah, I see. If you configure with both --without-libffi and --without-extra-nci-thunks, there is no framebuilder. I'll file this one under NotABug
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18:17 rohit_nsit08 Coke:ping
18:21 darbelo tcurtis: ping
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19:26 dukeleto plobsing: shoudln't the tests skip themselves properly?
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19:31 allison where are deprecated items tracked now?
19:31 allison google isn't helping much
19:31 cotto api.yaml
19:31 allison cotto: thanks
19:32 cotto allison, what's getting deprecated?
19:32 cotto np
19:32 allison cotto: not adding anything, just trying to explain it to the newbie debian packagers
19:32 cotto ah
19:32 dukeleto allison: please let us know if more docs about api.yaml are needed. all the deprecation docs should mention api.yaml instead of DEPRECATED.pod
19:33 allison dukeleto: well, there's a lot of entries in NEWS that still refer to it, but no way around that
19:33 allison dukeleto: also, the cygwin ports files are still using it
19:34 allison dukeleto: not sure where it should be documented, maybe in some general introduction for new parrot developers?
19:36 dukeleto allison: yes, our NewParrotDeveloperGuide should mention it
19:36 allison dukeleto: where is that in the repository/tarball?
19:37 dukeleto allison: there are some wiki pages that describe how to deprectate
19:37 dukeleto allison: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot​/wiki/NewParrotDeveloperGuide
19:37 allison dukeleto: should be something in the actual source code
19:37 allison dukeleto: (additional, or pointers to the wiki docs, or something)
19:37 Andy allison!  Wow, I remember an "allison". :-)
19:37 allison hi Andy!
19:38 dukeleto allison: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/wiki/HowToDeprecate
19:38 allison Andy: rumors of my death have been greatly exaggerated :)
19:38 allison Andy: though, I was in a nasty car accident recently
19:38 dukeleto allison: we have a general problem of some useful docs being only in the repo, or only on the wiki
19:39 Andy allison: :-(  Forgot what side of the road to drive on?
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19:39 dukeleto allison: sorry to hear that
19:39 Andy "If it's tuesday, it must be right-hand drive"
19:39 allison Andy: heh. :) Steering in the old car I was borrowing gave out while I was driving at 50mph on the I-5 bridge into Portland
19:39 Andy ouch
19:40 allison Andy: surprisingly, I escaped with a busted-up nose, and a few fractured ribs. Really not bad at all, considering.
19:40 Andy You were seat-belted I trust?
19:40 dukeleto allison: wow.
19:40 cotto allison, glad you're still hacking
19:41 allison Andy: Aye, seatbelt responsible for the fractured ribs. (Much better than the alternative.)
19:41 allison cotto: thanks
19:42 allison cotto: was a bit of a zombie for a couple of weeks, but getting back into the swing of things now
19:42 allison cotto: and with the Ubuntu release yesterday, I have time for a little outside hacking :)
19:42 cotto indeed
19:43 allison cotto: hoping to get the Parrot 3.3 Debian packages up this weekend
19:43 dukeleto allison++
19:43 cotto allison++
19:43 dukeleto allison: cotto++ and I will be at LinuxFestNW this weekend
19:43 Andy HOLY CRAP
19:43 Andy ALLISON
19:44 Andy I FORGOT YOU WERE AN UBUNTUER
19:44 Andy I need to pick your branes!
19:44 dukeleto allison: and hopefully an M0 minihackathon will occur
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19:45 allison dukeleto: excellent! I'd come up but I'll be on my way to Budapest for the Ubuntu Developer Summit
19:45 allison dukeleto: happy hackathoning!
19:46 allison Andy: sure, Ubuntu brain available for query at any time :)
19:46 dukeleto allison: awesome. indeed we will.
19:46 Andy chromatic and I arestarting a little project for open source projects
19:47 cotto Andy, do tell
19:47 Andy and we could probably use existing Ubuntu giant shoulders.
19:47 Andy Guide for sustainable projects.
19:47 cotto If it weren't for his blog, I'd think chromatic had fallen off the edge of the world.
19:47 cotto That sounds like something he'd do.
19:47 Andy Human-centered.
19:47 cotto looking forward to it
19:48 Andy Code is only 2/3rds of your project.  The other 2/3rds is the community around it.
19:48 Andy etc etc etc
19:49 Andy Trying to make a canonical aggregation of these sorts of ideas
19:49 Andy (not Canonical)
19:49 Andy Deliverables that people can adopt.
19:50 Andy like a license.
19:53 whiteknight Andy: sounds awesome
19:53 Andy Thank you.
19:53 Andy Got some free time? :-)
19:53 whiteknight yeah, I can pull some of that out of thin air
19:54 Andy I'm serious.
19:54 Andy None of this is tough.
19:54 Andy Right now I'm working on basic underlying principles.
19:54 Andy ala the agile manifesto
19:54 Andy @people > @code
19:55 Andy if your project is to be sustainable
19:55 dukeleto This article talks about Mozilla's new JIT compiler 'IonMonkey' http://blog.mozilla.com/dmandelin/2​011/04/22/mozilla-javascript-2011/
19:56 cotto They love their jits.
19:57 whiteknight we're going to love ours too
19:58 whiteknight Andy: Sure, I would love to be involved in that kind of thing, even if just as a well-wisher
19:58 whiteknight my pile of parrot-related TODO items never gets any smaller
19:58 Andy Well, I'm sure you follow perlbuz, right?
19:58 whiteknight nosir
19:58 Andy I'm certianly going to make noise there.
19:58 Andy OK, @petdance or @perlbuzz then?
19:58 tadzik did you mean: make buzz?
19:59 whiteknight Andy: I'll start following now
19:59 whiteknight brb
19:59 whiteknight left #parrot
19:59 tcurtis darbelo: pong
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20:04 Tene Andy: that sounds fascinating.
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20:17 * coke_ goes for "straightman" on the mailing list.
20:18 coke_ taptinder - I probably forgot to restart my client after a reboot. will get on that.
20:19 * coke_ tries to upgrade to ubuntu 11.04 and cringes.
20:20 coke_ (mainly because of the netbook+ubuntu combination of going to sleep and not waking up, not ubuntu perse.)
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20:32 cotto coke++
20:33 particle joined #parrot
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20:39 tadzik theory: ping
20:40 theory tadzik: D'oh! Forgot to ping you this morning. Apologies.
20:41 hudnix left #parrot
20:41 theory tadzik: Just finishing up a blog post in the PGXN API.
20:41 tadzik theory: I almost thought you were still sleeping, I started feeling jealous :>
20:41 theory sorry
20:41 theory no, it's 1:41 pm here.
20:42 tadzik theory: oh, I definitely want to read that. The META.info design is rather accidental
20:42 tadzik theory: no worries
20:43 theory tadzik: I've written about that in a few places. Mostly just stole from the PGXN Meta Spec 2.0.
20:44 theory tadzik: Just posted: http://blog.pgxn.org/post/​5049235040/about-pgxn-api
20:44 theory Anyway, the META spec is here: http://pgxn.org/spec
20:45 theory And this is about PGXN::Manager, which is basically like PAUSE. http://blog.pgxn.org/post/4854707157/pgxn-manager
20:45 theory I wrote it all so that it needn't be specific to PostgreSQL, so in theory you could use stuff if you want. Although it's all Perl 5. :-)
20:46 theory Gonna go release a bunch of stuff to CPAN now.
20:53 cotto shiny new laptop just shipped
20:54 * cotto looks forward to sub-hour rakudo spectest runs
20:55 cotto dukeleto, privmsg pong
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21:25 darbelo_ tcurtis: reping
21:31 ambs left #parrot
21:35 mikehh_ is now known as mikehh
21:35 mikehh opbots, names
21:37 tcurtis darbelo_: repong
21:42 rohit_nsit08 joined #parrot
21:45 darbelo_ tcurtis: Hey.
21:45 darbelo_ Missed you earlier.
21:46 darbelo_ Got distracted.
21:47 darbelo_ I have exams looming over me for next week. So I'll be somewhat hard to reach in the weekend.
21:47 darbelo_ tcurtis: Do you have time for a quick meeting now?
21:48 tcurtis darbelo_: sure.
21:49 darbelo_ Excelent.
21:49 darbelo_ So, what's your status?
21:51 darbelo_ Are you free to start the bonding process or do you need time to attend to non-GSoC things?
21:51 darbelo_ I recall some of the students were busy with schoolwork, but I can´t recall which :)
21:51 tcurtis I haven't done any work yet, but I'm starting to read some of the relevant papers.
21:52 darbelo_ Excellent. Do you have pointers so I can follow along at home?
21:53 tcurtis I have schoolwork, but it's not blocking GSoC.
21:55 tcurtis The dissertation which introduced LALR(1) parsing can be found at http://computer-refuge.org/bitsaver​s/pdf/mit/lcs/tr/MIT-LCS-TR-065.pdf
21:58 tcurtis I feel like I found a digital copy of "Efficient Computation of LALR(1) Look-Ahead Sets", but I can't seem to find it now.
21:59 tcurtis I plan to read "Practical LR(k) Translators" (the linked dissertation) in the coming week.
22:00 tcurtis I'll also probably write a little introductory blog-post this weekend.
22:00 benabik tcurtis: Efficient Computation - http://www.win.tue.nl/~wsinswan/softwa​retools/material/DeRemer_Pennello.pdf
22:01 tcurtis benabik++
22:02 * benabik has many parser links around from a compiler course last quarter.
22:04 davidfetter tcurtis, generally, i've had pretty good luck with plugging the name of the paper (all in quotes) and pdf into search engines
22:04 davidfetter well, good luck *finding* the paper. understanding it is a whole 'nother kettle of fish ;)
22:05 benabik I think davidfetter's method is how I found them the first time around. :-D
22:05 davidfetter :)
22:06 tcurtis ah, yes. Adding pdf is a good idea. Thanks, davidfetter++
22:06 davidfetter happy to help :)
22:06 dukeleto ~~
22:07 davidfetter hai dukeleto
22:07 * dukeleto waves hello from the train to LinuxFestNW
22:07 dukeleto cotto: ping
22:07 tadzik o/
22:08 dukeleto davidfetter: werd up
22:09 darbelo_ tcurtis: Ok. I'll look into that.
22:09 cotto dukeleto, pong
22:09 davidfetter ooh, lfnw. i keep meaning to apply to that one
22:09 cotto davidfetter, might be a bit late
22:10 davidfetter for this year, yes
22:10 dukeleto cotto: you planning on being in Bellingham tonight?
22:10 cotto they're a little last-minute, but not *that* last-minute
22:10 cotto dukeleto, possibly.  I woke up possibly sick.  If I feel fine for the rest of the day, yes.
22:11 whiteknight joined #parrot
22:11 dukeleto cotto: oh noes! Vitamin C, my friend. And lots of B and D too
22:12 cotto At worst it'll be an annoyance.
22:13 * davidfetter was in terrible shape for his talk at jdcon east
22:13 davidfetter ...which nevertheless went ok :)
22:15 whiteknight good afternoon, #parrot
22:15 darbelo_ tcurtis: I almost forgot. Do you have any plans for the 'project infrastructure'?
22:16 darbelo_ Repo, blog, issue tacker, build tools, etc.
22:18 tcurtis darbelo_: github for the repo and issue tracker. probably distutils for the build tracker. Probably rosella/test for testing.
22:18 lucian left #parrot
22:18 tcurtis For blog, during GSoC, I'll use Parrot.org, but I'll probably either mirror it on the github pages or a blog of my own (which I'll need to get around to setting up).
22:21 dukeleto tcurtis: sounds good. the parrot.org solution is meant to minimize the needs to configure+setup other blogs
22:21 dukeleto tcurtis: mirroring it anywhere else is encouraged
22:21 cotto dukeleto, are we calling that a hard requirement, or is it fine if there's a regularly-updated blog somewhere?
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22:26 darbelo_ tcurtis: Nice. And, last thing. What's your typical work environment going to be like.
22:26 dmalcolm left #parrot
22:26 darbelo_ OS, editors, etc
22:27 dukeleto cotto: i would like to have all the students blog posts appear on parrot.org, because then people can go to one place to see GSoC stuf
22:27 dukeleto cotto: if that is a problem, we can work something out, but I am making it a hard requirement unless somebody has a good reason
22:27 GodFather joined #parrot
22:27 whiteknight cotto: hard requirement
22:27 cotto dukeleto and whiteknight: ok
22:27 darbelo_ Ideally I'd like to set up one as close to it as possible. To make sure I can track your work without worrying about environmental mismatches.
22:28 whiteknight seen cgaertnr
22:28 aloha Sorry, I haven't seen cgaertnr.
22:28 whiteknight seen cgaertner
22:28 aloha cgaertner was last seen in #parrot 27 days 8 hours ago saying "btw, who would be willing to mentor the project? the proposal template ask for that information, I I don't remeber anyone actually mentioning that...".
22:28 darbelo_ And one as different from it as possible. So I can provide you with a canary in the metaphoric coal mine.
22:28 tcurtis darbelo_: Mostly GNU/Linux(Debian squeeze, specifically) with either vim or emacs. I'll probably also work on it on OS X occasionally.
22:32 darbelo_ tcurtis: Ok. I have Linux and OpenBSD systems at home, and a MacBook at work. I can track your work on all of them, provide as wide OS coverage as you need.
22:35 darbelo_ I'll try to read up on those papers, so we can discuss some more technical details next time.
22:35 darbelo_ tcurtis: Ok. Last question. Whats your time zone / regular working hourts ?
22:38 tcurtis darbelo_: my time zone is US central time. I'm not sure when I'll usually be working on GSoC. Probably mostly after 3pm on weekdays. But that will change once the quarter end (June 10th or so).
22:40 darbelo_ US Central is GMT-?
22:40 darbelo_ I can never keep US timezones straight.
22:40 tcurtis UTC-5 currently and for the duration of the summer.
22:40 darbelo_ The seasonal rearrangement doesn't help
22:42 tcurtis darbelo_, dukeleto, whiteknight: I should inform you that I've committed to working 20-hours a week for a part-time job for this summer. I would have mentioned it on my proposal had I known at the time. (more)
22:42 tcurtis I don't think it will interfere with GSoC, particularly since it involves a lot of downtime in which I will probably end up working on GSoC.
22:43 whiteknight ZOMG UNACEPTABLE
22:43 whiteknight where are you working?
22:43 dukeleto tcurtis: as long as you repeat your past performance or better, it should be fine :)
22:43 tcurtis whiteknight: at the computer lab at my university.
22:43 whiteknight preferrably better
22:43 whiteknight oh, that's not bad
22:44 whiteknight open up a window in the background and hack
22:44 whiteknight plus if you need help with any of the theory, you can ask a professor
22:44 davidfetter theory's a pretty helpful sort
22:45 theory I tr
22:45 theory try
22:47 GodFather newbe, need pir example using postgres
22:49 whiteknight GodFather: welcome!
22:49 whiteknight GodFather: dukeleto is your man, I think
22:49 dukeleto GodFather: howdy
22:49 dukeleto GodFather: what are you in need of?
22:50 GodFather howdy, I'm so new smell like a baby, I'd like a little example doing a select so I can build upon that code
22:50 GodFather select from a Postgres database
22:52 darbelo_ tcurtis: Gotta go now. msg me if you need anything.
22:55 darbelo_ left #parrot
22:55 GodFather I'm trying to get the code on http://www.sidhe.org/~dan/​blog/archives/000253.html to run
22:55 dukeleto GodFather: give me a little more context. You want to use the postgres PIR libraries to run a select on a table in a database from PIR?
22:55 whiteknight GodFather: that's an extremely old post
22:56 GodFather OK, is there some other post that would be better for me?
22:56 dukeleto GodFather: which version of parrot are you using?
22:56 GodFather one min
22:57 dukeleto GodFather: parrot --version should tell you
22:57 GodFather did a git on version 3.3.0
22:57 GodFather 3.3.0-devel
22:58 dukeleto GodFather: ok
22:58 dukeleto GodFather: https://github.com/parrot/parr​ot/blob/master/t/library/pg.t
22:58 dukeleto GodFather: if I understand you, that should send you in the correct direction
22:59 dukeleto GodFather: look at line 103
22:59 GodFather ok, thanks will look at it
22:59 * dukeleto goes back to writing his conf talk
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