Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #parrot, 2011-05-24

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:09 whiteknight ...lolwat?
00:17 dalek Rosella: 472e86f | Whiteknight++ | / (2 files):
00:17 dalek Rosella: Fix Provider.Array.take. Add .skip. Add tests for Array provider
00:17 dalek Rosella: review: https://github.com/Whiteknig​ht/Rosella/commit/472e86f025
00:17 dalek Rosella: 4b8ce5a | Whiteknight++ | t/query/provider/Hash.t:
00:17 dalek Rosella: fix Hash.t
00:17 dalek Rosella: review: https://github.com/Whiteknig​ht/Rosella/commit/4b8ce5ab9e
00:18 dmalcolm left #parrot
00:22 daniel-s left #parrot
00:33 Util kid51++ ; thanks for the clean-up, and for the prodding.
00:33 Util Re the dates: IMHO (and IANAL), those files are not truly "new"; they all represent pre-existing content, so the initial copyright date is still relevant.
00:33 Util As a minimal example, we would not change the copyright date if we just renamed a file, would we?
00:43 cotto ~~
00:45 kid51_at_dinner Util++ ... and since I have you here ...
00:45 kid51_at_dinner is now known as kid51
00:45 kid51 Is there any chance we could consolidate those 10 foo.t files into a smaller number?
00:45 kid51 Once upon a time, particle stressed to me the start-up time for processes on Win32 ...
00:46 kid51 ... and prodded *me* to consolidate 30+ test files.
00:46 kid51 Re copyright date:  I did git log on a couple of the files and didn't see (or perhaps overlooked) earlier dates.
00:55 Util I would love to consolidate, but as I outlined in TT#1217, each test *must* be in a separate process, so separate invocation of ./parrot is needed for each test. Otherwise, all the tests (except the first one) will always pass, even if they do something very wrong that should have made them fail.
00:55 kid51 okay.  I hadn't looked closely at the tests, but I figured I'd ask.
00:59 Util Re copyright date: Hmmm. `git log t/dynpmc/foo.t` fails. I do not know how to see the log of a file after `git rm`. Anyway, that is the file that the 10 foo-*.t files were split from.
01:00 cotto This book brings me an atypical amount of nerd glee.
01:02 Util Doh! I should have used `git mv` to change foo.t to foo-01.t, to preserve easy access to the history.
01:02 Util cotto: Which book?
01:03 kid51 We'll have to put you on the "learn one git command a day" plan. :-)
01:03 kid51 ... which I ought to go on as well. ;-)
01:04 cotto Util, http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/052103311​X/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&tag=ucmbread​-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&cre​ative=390957&creativeASIN=052103311X
01:05 Util cotto: Ooooooooh. Shiny!
01:07 dalek Rosella/gh-pages: cd924cc | Whiteknight++ | libraries/query.md:
01:07 dalek Rosella/gh-pages: Add webpage for query
01:07 dalek Rosella/gh-pages: review: https://github.com/Whiteknig​ht/Rosella/commit/cd924cc9d4
01:07 dalek Rosella/gh-pages: 1f4ca51 | Whiteknight++ | _layouts/rosella.html:
01:07 dalek Rosella/gh-pages: Add query to the nav
01:07 dalek Rosella/gh-pages: review: https://github.com/Whiteknig​ht/Rosella/commit/1f4ca51457
01:08 benabik ~~
01:09 benabik Util: git doesn't track file renames.  Git tries to guess file copies and moves.  It's slightly more reliable.
01:10 dalek Rosella: c5c8c3c | Whiteknight++ | / (16 files):
01:10 dalek Rosella: Query is now a stable library.
01:10 dalek Rosella: review: https://github.com/Whiteknig​ht/Rosella/commit/c5c8c3ccff
01:11 * soh_cah_toa has made room reservations and registered for yapc::na
01:11 cotto soh_cah_toa, woot
01:12 soh_cah_toa yeah, i'm so excited
01:12 cotto soh_cah_toa, do you have any gsoc questions?  I'm planning on being mostly offline this evening.
01:13 soh_cah_toa hmm...let me think
01:13 soh_cah_toa oh one
01:13 soh_cah_toa what are these things like @ld_out@ in the makefile? i've never seen them before. b/c of them i can't quite figure what my hbdb rules are doing
01:15 cotto they closely approximate magic
01:15 PerlJam soh_cah_toa: they are substitutions
01:15 cotto Configure.pl turns them into platform-appropriate thingies
01:16 cotto (I assume you're referring to the makefile templates rather than the makefiles themselves.)
01:16 soh_cah_toa ok. are they specific to gnu make or are they just symbols that are only recognized by the configure script
01:16 soh_cah_toa yes
01:17 Util soh_cah_toa: There should be no @foo@ in the final Makefile that Configure.pl produces; they should only be in the template.
01:17 soh_cah_toa Util: right
01:17 cotto soh_cah_toa, they're only meaningful to Configure.pl
01:18 soh_cah_toa cotto: ok, so Configure.pl is where i do my research then
01:18 cotto yes and no
01:18 bubaflub soh_cah_toa: i've done some digging in there before, if you have questions feel free to ask
01:18 soh_cah_toa bubaflub: sure
01:19 bubaflub soh_cah_toa: the entire configure process can set variables which can then get subsitutited into the Makefile.in which then becomes the Makefile proper
01:19 Util benabik: thanks! There is a way to ask it to look, as I just found: (for kid51, too): `git log -- t/dynpmc/foo.t`
01:19 cotto Configure.pl is the starting point, but there's a number of supporting libraries under config/ that do the actual work
01:19 soh_cah_toa cotto: ok great. that's the only thing i can think of right now. i'm sure i'll have more questions to bombard you w/ tomorrow :)
01:19 dalek parrot-embed: fcd00a8 | dukeleto++ | .gitignore:
01:19 dalek parrot-embed: ignore a generated file
01:19 dalek parrot-embed: review: https://github.com/parrot/pa​rrot-embed/commit/fcd00a8bc7
01:20 cotto soh_cah_toa, I'm sure you will.  glad you're not blocked for now
01:20 kid51 soh_cah_toa & GSOCers in general:  I can handle Configure.pl questions as well
01:20 benabik Util: You may need to add a --follow to git log to cross the rename boundry.  (Or at least you used to)
01:24 Util benabik: still true; thanks
01:24 Util (in some situations, still true)
01:24 cotto brain have tired.  not want think
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01:31 soh_cah_toa general question for anybody: is there any significant difference between using Parrot_x_exit() and exit()? is one preferred over the other?
01:31 soh_cah_toa also, why the need for Parrot_x_exit() at all? does exit() not suffice?
01:31 whiteknight exit() does not suffice
01:32 whiteknight Parrot_x_exit() doesn't exit the program. It "jumps out" of the interpreter
01:32 whiteknight Parrot_x_exit calls exit handlers for cleanup, then calls Parrot_x_jump_out
01:32 soh_cah_toa whiteknight: so if i want to exit on some kind of error, i need to call Parrot_x_exit() first and then exit()?
01:33 whiteknight libparrot isn't a program by itself. It's called by embedding applications. When libparrot has an unrecoverable error it calls src/exceptions.c:die_from_exception, which calls Parrot_x_jump_out()
01:33 whiteknight When we destroy the interpreter, we call Parrot_x_exit(), which runs the exit handlers on interp destruction and jumps out
01:34 whiteknight so what exit routine you call depends on where you call it from
01:34 whiteknight if you are in an embedding application, call Parrot_api_destroy_interpreter(), then do whatever you want
01:34 dalek parrot-embed: 854c6f7 | dukeleto++ | README:
01:34 dalek parrot-embed: update copyright
01:34 dalek parrot-embed: review: https://github.com/parrot/pa​rrot-embed/commit/854c6f74e9
01:34 whiteknight if you are in Parrot or an extension, it depends what behavior you are trying to produce
01:35 * soh_cah_toa tries to digest this
01:35 soh_cah_toa well, i think that raises up another question i've wanted to ask...
01:36 whiteknight soh_cah_toa: think about it this way. I have a program, and a parrot plugin. If Parrot has a problem, we exit the interpreter, we *do not* want to crash the entire program
01:36 soh_cah_toa what exactly is embedding? when i think of embedding i think of something like mod_perl. for my debugger though, it's considered embedded and i use the embedding api. how is that?
01:36 whiteknight or exit the entire program
01:36 whiteknight embedding is where you use libparrot from inside a bigger program
01:36 whiteknight think about plugins.
01:37 whiteknight any application which has pluggins embeds little details inside a bigger program
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01:37 benabik It really helps to declare $(PARROT) as a dependency before using $(PARROT) in the recipe.  *sigh*
01:37 cotto soh_cah_toa, in general I'd encourage you to look at the source for functions when you have a question.  Don't let yourself waste too much time trying to understand every last detail, but looking at implementations can give you a good idea of what's happening and what you might need to be aware of.
01:38 cotto benabik, yes.  highly recommended
01:40 cotto soh_cah_toa, the parrot frontend embeds libparrot in a program that compiles and runs PIR and runs pbc.
01:40 cotto the pbc_merge frontend embeds libparrot into a program that knows how to load and merge pbc files
01:41 cotto the pbc_dump frontend uses libparrot to print out a human-readable representation of pbc
01:41 cotto etc
01:41 whiteknight soh_cah_toa: inside libparrot, there are notions of things like exception handlers, and an execution context. Outside of Parot, in ordinary C code, we don't have these things
01:42 whiteknight libparrot sets up an execution environment, where certain things are possible inside it that are not possible outside it
01:42 whiteknight so Parrot_x_jump_out leaves the Parrot environment. Once you call that, you don't have exception handlers anymore, etc
01:42 benabik Any tips on what "Class Node already registered!" would mean?
01:43 soh_cah_toa ohhhhhhhh...so the parrot interpreter is the embeddee and my program is the embedder. i was thinking the other way around. i was confusing extensions with embedding
01:43 benabik It happens on the PIR: $P212."new_class"("PAST::Block", "PAST::Node" :named("parent"))
01:43 bacek_at_work benabik, you are probably trying to include ".pir" twice
01:43 bacek_at_work for same class
01:43 benabik bacek_at_work: I didn't think I was, but I'll dig around a bit.
01:43 bacek_at_work or forgot to remove "handcrafted" from original .pir
01:44 bacek_at_work benabik, just ack "new_class" in compilers/pct/src/PAST
01:44 dalek parrot-embed: 8db0cd6 | dukeleto++ | README (2 files):
01:44 dalek parrot-embed: convert readme to markdown
01:44 dalek parrot-embed: review: https://github.com/parrot/pa​rrot-embed/commit/8db0cd6c28
01:44 whiteknight soh_cah_toa: exactly
01:44 soh_cah_toa alright, i think i get it
01:45 whiteknight soh_cah_toa: yeah, once you get the terminology right, you'll know exactly what it is
01:45 bacek_at_work benabik, yes, in PAST/Compiler.pir
01:45 bacek_at_work benabik, oh, no. I misread it... Sorry
01:45 whiteknight msg dukeleto wouldn't it be more kosher for the parrot-embed README to be in POD? That's the lingua franca of Perl5 docs
01:45 aloha OK. I'll deliver the message.
01:48 cotto whiteknight, it matters much less since github++ is smart enough to parse both
01:49 dalek parrot-embed: 47ff4eb | dukeleto++ | lib/Parrot/Interpreter.pm:
01:49 dalek parrot-embed: it is called parrot-dev
01:49 dalek parrot-embed: review: https://github.com/parrot/pa​rrot-embed/commit/47ff4eb7fe
01:53 benabik Ah.  I had PAST/Node.pir in PAST/Nodes.pir twice.  *headdesk*
01:53 benabik Onto the next build error.
01:54 dukeleto whiteknight: i don't really care. I am actually testing jitterbug by making small trivial edits to parrot-embed :)
01:55 whiteknight dukeleto: yeah, it was just a small stylistic nit
01:55 whiteknight does parrot-embed even work?
01:55 dukeleto whiteknight: it doesn't compile outside of the parrot repo yet
01:55 whiteknight I wanted to update it to use the new embedding API, but didn't get far
01:55 dukeleto whiteknight: it's build.pl needs to be unsheistified
01:55 whiteknight the XS nonsense threatened to drive me insane
01:56 dukeleto whiteknight: http://jitterbug.leto.net:3000/api/b​uild/parrot-embed/47ff4eb7fe9c215930​640a701eda193c5030940f/perl-v5.10.1
01:56 whiteknight awesome
01:56 whiteknight cotto: how much did you pay for that book?
01:56 whiteknight Amazon has it listed for an arm used, the leg too new
01:57 * dukeleto encourages peeps to push commits to parrot.git so I can see if i have shaken out the proper bugs in jitterbug
01:58 benabik The line numbers on the PIR backtraces are not always what I would call accurage.
01:58 benabik accurate, even
01:58 sorear benabik: imcc line numbers are a running gag
01:59 benabik sorear: Well, I am gagging.
01:59 sorear opbots, names
01:59 sorear opbots, trust benabik
01:59 slavorg Ok
02:00 benabik Whatnow?
02:00 sorear benabik: try adding print statements
02:00 benabik sorear: I found it based on sub name and the error.
02:00 sorear benabik: also, look at the IP values that are printed, and match them up with pbc_disassemble output
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02:07 whiteknight time for bed. goodnight
02:07 whiteknight left #parrot
02:07 benabik It built?
02:09 silug left #parrot
02:10 benabik And passed.  The horrors.
02:10 tadzik :)
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02:28 benabik Anybody have any comments on https://github.com/Benabik/parrot/commits/nqp_pct ?
02:30 bacek_at_work benabik, I'll look at it tonight.
02:33 benabik bacek_at_work: I converted all the PAST nodes to NQP (with the help of Q:PIR) and tied that into the builds.  Notable other changes: Committed nqp-setting.pir and ported a fix for TT#821 from master.
02:33 bacek_at_work benabik, excellent!
02:33 bacek_at_work benabik, jfyi, http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/wiki/ParrotQuotes​?action=diff&version=14&old_version=13 (nothing personal if I'll use it :)
02:34 benabik bacek_at_work: Fair enough.  I'm used to a bit of impolite English here and there.  :-)
02:36 benabik Tomorrow I get to dig into the monster that is PAST::Compiler.  :-/
02:40 benabik bacek_at_work: Although I hope you won't need to use "OMG, do you really thinks using your brains?" when referring to my code.
02:41 bubaflub left #parrot
02:59 tadzik the ultimate fear
03:16 dalek parrot/leto/embed_grant: f4faf15 | dukeleto++ | t/src/extend_vtable.t:
03:16 dalek parrot/leto/embed_grant: [t] Parrot_PMC_set_string_keyed
03:16 dalek parrot/leto/embed_grant: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/f4faf15dc7
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03:28 dalek parrot: 9282a06 | dukeleto++ | NEWS:
03:28 dalek parrot: Add a blurb skeleton for 3.5.0
03:28 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/9282a060fa
03:30 cotto dukeleto, ping
03:30 cotto (ignore privmsg)
03:31 dukeleto cotto: pong
03:32 cotto dukeleto, a couple things:
03:32 cotto dukeleto, first, it looks like chromatic will be there on Saturday for the M0 sync.
03:32 cotto dukeleto, second, can you lead #ps?  I have an optional but recommended $dayjob meeting that's likely to cut into it.
03:32 bluescreen left #parrot
03:34 dalek parrot: 6edd292 | dukeleto++ | NEWS:
03:34 dalek parrot: Add a note about HARNESS_TIMER
03:34 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/6edd292a68
03:35 dukeleto cotto: awesome and sure
03:35 dukeleto cotto: and i think i may have fixed jitterbug enough for the parrot test suite to be happy
03:36 cotto thanks
03:42 dukeleto cotto: dare I say, jitterbug can grok parrot's test suite now: http://jitterbug.leto.net:3000/project/parrot
03:43 dukeleto cotto: this means I have tuits for M0 now :)
03:43 cotto dukeleto, woot and woot again
03:43 benabik dukeleto++
03:43 cotto dukeleto++
03:43 cotto and that
03:47 tadzik wow, awesome
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04:30 dalek parrot/m0-prototype: 1bbb44c | dukeleto++ | t/m0/ (3 files):
04:30 dalek parrot/m0-prototype: Prevent our hand-crafted m0b from getting overwritten during the test suite by giving it a fancy name
04:30 dalek parrot/m0-prototype: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/1bbb44cd68
04:33 dalek parrot/m0-spec: 37cc2e2 | dukeleto++ | docs/pdds/draft/pdd32_m0.pod:
04:33 dalek parrot/m0-spec: Put a line in the sand about op composition
04:33 dalek parrot/m0-spec: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/37cc2e2cf8
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04:47 cotto msg whiteknight This may not be helpful but I was explicitly glad I didn't have a spouse to whom I'd have to justify the purchase of the Appel book.
04:47 aloha OK. I'll deliver the message.
04:48 ShaneC left #parrot
04:49 dalek parrot/m0-prototype: 74be997 | dukeleto++ | config/gen/makefiles/root.in:
04:49 dalek parrot/m0-prototype: Add t/m0/m0_assembler.t to the m0_tests makefile target
04:49 dalek parrot/m0-prototype: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/74be997efe
04:52 tcurtis msg darbelo I created a repository for my project at https://github.com/ekiru/lalrskate
04:52 aloha OK. I'll deliver the message.
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04:57 dukeleto tcurtis: you took my name suggestion!
04:57 * dukeleto is honored
04:57 dukeleto cotto: jitterbug just got t/pmc/threads.t to coredump http://jitterbug.leto.net:3000/api​/build/parrot/74be997efe72793d0c8c​4208f28597f00ddbf0d9/perl-v5.10.1
04:57 dalek parrot/m0-spec: a81e8e7 | cotto++ | docs/pdds/draft/pdd32_m0.pod:
04:57 dalek parrot/m0-spec: change goto* to take a fixed target
04:57 dalek parrot/m0-spec: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/a81e8e73be
04:57 cotto dukeleto, ...
04:58 dukeleto cotto: i am backing away, slowly
04:59 cotto I'm impressed that we could fail that hard.
04:59 cotto I thought it only failed unreliably instead of also occasionally core dumping.
05:00 cotto tcurtis++
05:01 dukeleto cotto: it is a box with a lot going on
05:02 dukeleto cotto: i am staring at hexdump output, are you happy?
05:03 cotto dukeleto, "happy" wouldn't be the most accurate word.
05:04 * dukeleto searches for fancy hex editor/viewers
05:04 cotto dukeleto, are you trying to debug the thread failure or playing with M0?
05:05 dalek parrot/m0-spec: f58a07a | cotto++ | docs/pdds/draft/pdd32_m0.pod:
05:05 dalek parrot/m0-spec: rename goto_if_eq to goto_if
05:05 dalek parrot/m0-spec: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/f58a07a92e
05:05 dalek parrot/m0-prototype: ea5c2d3 | cotto++ | src/m0/m0_ (2 files):
05:05 dalek parrot/m0-prototype: update the name of goto_if_eq in assembler and interp
05:05 dalek parrot/m0-prototype: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/ea5c2d3259
05:06 dukeleto ghex seems decent
05:13 dukeleto cotto: my generated m0b agrees with yours up to and including byte 28
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05:14 cotto dukeleto, that's good
05:19 cotto although the other bytes are important too
05:36 dukeleto cotto: is the plan to keep m0_tests passing?
05:37 dalek parrot/m0-prototype: ad0481c | dukeleto++ | t/m0/m0_assembler.t:
05:37 dalek parrot/m0-prototype: Add a test to verify that bytecode generated for hello.m0 is of correct length
05:37 dalek parrot/m0-prototype: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/ad0481c3e5
05:38 cotto dukeleto, when possible
05:39 cotto dukeleto, it's an experimental branch
05:39 dukeleto cotto: 'cause i just broke it
05:39 cotto dukeleto, let me find my panic hat
05:39 dukeleto cotto: but i wrote a failing test to aid in development
05:40 cotto dukeleto, TODO?
05:40 dukeleto cotto: ah, yes
05:41 dukeleto cotto: done
05:41 dalek parrot/m0-prototype: 5a334ef | dukeleto++ | t/m0/m0_assembler.t:
05:41 dalek parrot/m0-prototype: Keep the m0_tests target passing
05:41 dalek parrot/m0-prototype: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/5a334ef5c6
05:41 * dukeleto takes a break
05:46 cotto dukeleto, I'm thinking about goto_chunk.  Do you think it makes sense to jump into a chunk anywhere other than the first instruction?
05:51 tcurtis dukeleto: I'm not absolutely certain I'll keep the name, but it does mean I can call some debugging tool "lalrcat".
05:51 cotto tcurtis, you can call a lot of things a lot of things
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06:02 dalek parrot/m0-spec: c386e91 | cotto++ | docs/pdds/draft/pdd32_m0.pod:
06:02 dalek parrot/m0-spec: add spec for labels, fix minor mistakes
06:02 dalek parrot/m0-spec: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/c386e91c63
06:02 cotto dukeleto, if it slows you down, feel free to not implement labels until everything else is done.
06:03 * cotto sleeps
06:03 cotto 'night
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10:21 dalek parrot: 13d5346 | mikehh++ | docs/deprecations/deprecations.pod:
10:21 dalek parrot: add docs/deprecations dir and deprecations.pod
10:21 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/13d534620b
10:21 dalek parrot: a8f31ac | mikehh++ | docs/deprecations/deprecations_2_6.pod:
10:21 dalek parrot: add deprecations notes for release 2.6
10:21 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/a8f31ac5df
10:21 dalek parrot: 4b9dc1d | mikehh++ | docs/deprecations/deprecations_2_9.pod:
10:21 dalek parrot: add deprecations notes for release 2.9
10:21 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/4b9dc1dc9b
10:21 dalek parrot: 1c489c5 | mikehh++ | docs/deprecations/deprecations_3_0.pod:
10:21 dalek parrot: add deprecations notes for release 3.0
10:21 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/1c489c5e89
10:21 dalek parrot: 4fc2abf | mikehh++ | docs/deprecations/deprecations_3_3.pod:
10:21 dalek parrot: add deprecations notes for release 3.3
10:21 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/4fc2abf23b
10:21 dalek parrot: c8947a7 | mikehh++ | docs/deprecations/deprecations_3_6.pod:
10:21 dalek parrot: add deprecations notes for release 3.6
10:21 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/c8947a7155
10:21 dalek parrot: ed2d578 | mikehh++ | docs/deprecations/how_to_deprecate.pod:
10:21 dalek parrot: add how to deprecate notes
10:21 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/ed2d57877c
10:21 dalek parrot: 27265e1 | mikehh++ | docs/index/developer.json:
10:21 dalek parrot: add deprecations notes to developer docs for html
10:21 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/27265e165a
10:21 dalek parrot: 8b56ba3 | mikehh++ | MANIFEST:
10:21 dalek parrot: re-generate MANIFEST
10:21 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/8b56ba3894
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12:39 darbelo ~~
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13:32 dalek Rosella/gh-pages: ddc3c1c | Whiteknight++ | libraries/query.md:
13:32 dalek Rosella/gh-pages: Fix title. Add overview. Add info about functions and predicates
13:32 dalek Rosella/gh-pages: review: https://github.com/Whiteknig​ht/Rosella/commit/ddc3c1c4e9
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14:37 dalek Rosella/gh-pages: cc58e4c | Whiteknight++ | libraries/query.md:
14:37 dalek Rosella/gh-pages: Fix formatting:
14:37 dalek Rosella/gh-pages: review: https://github.com/Whiteknig​ht/Rosella/commit/cc58e4c1fd
14:48 benabik ~~
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15:01 cotto ~~
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15:20 cotto_work ~~
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15:40 whiteknight good morning, #parrot
15:40 JimmyZ left #parrot
15:42 cotto_work hio whiteknight
15:42 lucian whiteknight: hi
15:45 whiteknight good morning cotto_work, lucian
15:46 lucian i think i really hate cpan
15:47 hercynium joined #parrot
15:47 bubaflub lucian: why is that?
15:48 lucian bubaflub: well, besides not working, it really, really wants root
15:48 bubaflub hmmm
15:48 lucian i'm trying out cpanminus, seems better
15:48 bubaflub lucian: are you using the default CPAN client?
15:48 bubaflub yeah, there we go
15:48 lucian it still ends up building lots of things when installing vimana
15:48 lucian seems odd
15:48 bubaflub yeah, those dependencies can multiply quickly
15:48 benabik I have cpanp configured to use sudo to install.
15:48 bubaflub i started using perlbrew and cpanminus
15:49 lucian it builds things called "math-round"  and "mouse" and "regex"
15:57 cotto_work http://lwn.net/SubscriberLi​nk/444336/86ac80dfae5f3d70/ - interesting article about kernel hackers and premature optimization
16:04 dmalcolm joined #parrot
16:05 lucian cotto_work: out of curiosity, are you allowed to share that link?
16:07 cotto_work lucian: the link is intended to be shared
16:07 lucian cotto_work: i see. thanks
16:08 cotto_work Some LWN articles require a subscription to view during the first week they're published.  The subscriber link feature allows subscribers to share full articles.
16:14 lucian cotto_work: yeah, i'd noticed the former, just found out the latter
16:14 lucian cotto_work: interesting article indeed
16:14 lucian i suppose using mostly higher-level languages, i'm not usually tempted to do any non-complexity optimisations
16:26 theory joined #parrot
16:27 atrodo cotto_work> it's those things that make me marvel at how magical cpu's are today
16:30 NotFound_b whiteknight: ping
16:38 whiteknight pong
16:38 NotFound_b whiteknight: Have you seen this? https://github.com/NotFound/WinxedGtk
16:40 mj41 left #parrot
16:40 whiteknight I saw your example code yesterday. I didn't see that repo
16:40 whiteknight Ah, there's my problem. I wasn't following you. Now I am
16:40 NotFound_b I created it after yesterday conversation.
16:42 whiteknight okay, awesome
16:42 whiteknight it looks pretty cool
16:43 NotFound_b And useful, I hope.
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17:07 dukeleto ~~
17:12 cotto_work pmichaud: ping
17:30 dalek Rosella: 74476e9 | Whiteknight++ | s (4 files):
17:30 dalek Rosella: Add a new File library, with a basic implementation of a directory tree walker and a file visitor, inspired by similar logic in the Harness library
17:30 dalek Rosella: review: https://github.com/Whiteknig​ht/Rosella/commit/74476e9655
17:30 dalek Rosella: d504e88 | Whiteknight++ | .gitignore:
17:30 dalek Rosella: update gitignore
17:30 dalek Rosella: review: https://github.com/Whiteknig​ht/Rosella/commit/d504e8898a
17:32 dukeleto cotto_work: the m0-spec branch is failing on jitterbug: http://new.leto.net:3000/project/parrot
17:32 dukeleto cotto_work: looks like it may need a merge from master or something
17:32 cotto_work dukeleto: that's possible.  It's quite old.
17:33 cotto_work dukeleto: I haven't bothered to sync it because that's not the point of the branch, but it's also not harmful or hard to sync.
17:33 dukeleto cotto_work: ok, i will merge master in
17:34 dukeleto ooooh, i see deprecation data in our repo!
17:34 dukeleto mikehh++
17:35 cotto_work dukeleto: thanks
17:35 dalek parrot/m0-spec: 13d5346 | mikehh++ | docs/deprecations/deprecations.pod:
17:35 dalek parrot/m0-spec: add docs/deprecations dir and deprecations.pod
17:35 dalek parrot/m0-spec: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/13d534620b
17:35 dalek parrot/m0-spec: a8f31ac | mikehh++ | docs/deprecations/deprecations_2_6.pod:
17:35 dalek parrot/m0-spec: add deprecations notes for release 2.6
17:35 dalek parrot/m0-spec: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/a8f31ac5df
17:35 dalek parrot/m0-spec: 4b9dc1d | mikehh++ | docs/deprecations/deprecations_2_9.pod:
17:35 dalek parrot/m0-spec: add deprecations notes for release 2.9
17:35 dalek parrot/m0-spec: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/4b9dc1dc9b
17:35 dalek parrot/m0-spec: 1c489c5 | mikehh++ | docs/deprecations/deprecations_3_0.pod:
17:35 dalek parrot/m0-spec: add deprecations notes for release 3.0
17:35 dalek parrot/m0-spec: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/1c489c5e89
17:35 dalek parrot/m0-spec: 4fc2abf | mikehh++ | docs/deprecations/deprecations_3_3.pod:
17:35 dukeleto uh oh
17:35 dalek parrot/m0-spec: add deprecations notes for release 3.3
17:35 dalek parrot/m0-spec: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/4fc2abf23b
17:35 dalek parrot/m0-spec: c8947a7 | mikehh++ | docs/deprecations/deprecations_3_6.pod:
17:35 dalek parrot/m0-spec: add deprecations notes for release 3.6
17:35 dalek parrot/m0-spec: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/c8947a7155
17:35 dalek parrot/m0-spec: ed2d578 | mikehh++ | docs/deprecations/how_to_deprecate.pod:
17:35 dalek parrot/m0-spec: add how to deprecate notes
17:35 dalek parrot/m0-spec: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/ed2d57877c
17:35 dalek parrot/m0-spec: 27265e1 | mikehh++ | docs/index/developer.json:
17:35 dalek parrot/m0-spec: add deprecations notes to developer docs for html
17:35 dalek parrot/m0-spec: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/27265e165a
17:35 dalek parrot/m0-spec: 8b56ba3 | mikehh++ | MANIFEST:
17:35 dalek parrot/m0-spec: re-generate MANIFEST
17:35 dalek parrot/m0-spec: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/8b56ba3894
17:35 dalek parrot/m0-spec: cb24ece | dukeleto++ | / (401 files):
17:35 dalek parrot/m0-spec: Merge branch 'master' into m0-spec
17:35 dalek parrot/m0-spec: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/cb24ece0bd
17:36 dukeleto i thought dalek was going to spew 400ish commits. Thankfully, it stopped.
17:37 benabik It would be nice if dalek used --first-parent or something.  If people want to investigate a merge, they can do so via the link.
17:40 dukeleto benabik: it does various things and has some heuristics to detect merges and such. But, of course, it ain't perfect.
17:40 dukeleto benabik: how is your gsoc progress?
17:40 dukeleto benabik: is bacek++ being helpful?
17:41 benabik dukeleto: Got the PAST nodes into NQP files and got the build running.  bacek++'s been very helpful.  He's saved me a couple hours of searching by pointing out likely problems.
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17:42 dukeleto benabik: just what a mentor is for :)
17:44 dukeleto Check it out: Github API for getting a list of contributors to a repo: curl http://github.com/api/v2/json/repo​s/show/parrot/parrot/contributors
17:47 Tene whiteknight: I started cardinal with a short ruby quick reference guide by oreilly that I cpiked up on a whim for like $2 in a used book store.
17:48 whiteknight I got the big O'Reilly Python book for christmas and haven't really taken time to read it yet
17:49 whiteknight I figure that now is as good a time as any to pick it up and learn something new
17:50 whiteknight Ruby is near the top of my short list too. I would like to start griding through the koans soon
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17:50 dukeleto Perl embedded in Go: https://github.com/bradfitz/campher
17:50 whiteknight nice
17:52 benabik How do I convert PIR `.include "cclass.pasm"` into NQP?
17:53 PerlJam benabik: I don't think you do.
17:53 whiteknight yeah, you can't
17:54 whiteknight you have to copy+paste the values
17:54 benabik Yeah, taht's what I thought.
17:55 PerlJam Though it might be nice if a simple PIR->NQP translator existed.
17:55 PerlJam *really* simple
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17:57 PerlJam er, I guess I mean a PASM->NQP translator
17:57 benabik PerlJam: For my needs, all it would have to do is convert a bunch of .macro_const lines...
17:58 PerlJam oh.  In the case of that file, it's generated anyway.  It would be nice if the generator knew how to output NQP
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18:47 whiteknight Winxed has the ability to get const symbols out of .pasm files
18:47 whiteknight I dont' know how you would even go about doing that in NQP
18:48 benabik I don't think NQP has constants, but it would be awesome if it learned to parse PASM enough for constants.
18:49 jnthn__ Would like to add constants but no interest in tying it to PASM.
18:58 NotFound Winxed just looks for integer constants in the .pasm files
19:08 dukeleto Wow. PHPUnit does not impress.
19:08 benabik dukeleto: s/Unit//
19:08 dukeleto Does anybody have a suggestion for a PHP testing framework that is easy to bundle with a project ?
19:09 dukeleto benabik: indeed. PHP last impressed me in 1998, methinks.
19:10 benabik dukeleto: PHP5 improved matters quite a bit, but I keep wishing I was using Ruby instead.
19:11 benabik dukeleto: And 5.3 added closures and goto.  Adding goto impresses me some, but not in a good way.
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19:26 dalek website: benabik++ | GSoC 1: On Your Marks, Get Set
19:26 dalek website: http://www.parrot.org/conten​t/gsoc-1-your-marks-get-set
19:26 PerlJam does php have anything other than phpunit?
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19:54 benabik Hackathon at YAPC is Thursday?  (I really need to write this down this time.
19:55 rblackwe http://www.yapc2011.us/yn2011/wi​ki?node=Parrot/Perl6%20Hackathon
19:56 dukeleto benabik: that is what I have been told
19:56 dukeleto rblackwe: do you have suggested dates that devs should be at YAPC::NA? Is there other stuff going on?
19:56 rblackwe That wiki page does not give date details but is linked from the YAPC schedule.
19:56 rblackwe (For Thursday)
19:57 rblackwe dukeleto: I don't know unfortuanatly.
19:57 rblackwe I only know of the Parrot/Perl6 Hackathon.
19:57 rblackwe These things seem to organize at the last minute.
19:57 dukeleto rblackwe: indeed :)
19:58 rblackwe I have learned to just assume they will happen and have something else to do if they don't :)
19:58 atrodo The hackathon happens on thursday, but a BOF is happeing on tuesday
20:00 atrodo http://www.yapc2011.us/yn2011/​wiki?node=Parrot%2FPerl6%20BOF
20:06 benabik aloha, going to yapc::na is also benabik
20:06 aloha benabik: Okay.
20:08 dukeleto cotto_work: have you made travel+hotel plans for YAPC::NA yet?
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20:28 soh_cah_toa joined #parrot
20:28 dukeleto 2 mins until #ps
20:28 benabik dukeleto: I hate EFINITETIME.  I get that error code way too often.
20:29 whiteknight left #parrot
20:31 dukeleto Someone should tell this dude about Parrot: http://www.groklaw.net/articl​e.php?story=20110426051819346
20:33 perlite left #parrot
20:34 benabik Arg.  My cat waited until #ps started to climb in my lap and make typing difficult.
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21:27 dalek nqp: 2ca4db0 | jonathan++ | src/6model/reprs/P6 (3 files):
21:27 dalek nqp: Update native repr handling to fit latest thinking.
21:27 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/2ca4db0369
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22:10 darbelo ~~
22:10 sorear o/ darbelo
22:10 darbelo hey.
22:11 hercynium left #parrot
22:15 darbelo tcurtis: ping
22:26 mtk left #parrot
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22:52 tcurtis darbelo: pong; sorry about the delay.
22:55 darbelo tcurtis: no problem. How have you been?
22:58 tcurtis darbelo: good. Slightly busy and slightly sleep-deprived.
22:59 darbelo Only slightly? Excellent!
22:59 darbelo ;)
22:59 darbelo Saw the repo. I already like LARLcat as a name.
23:00 darbelo Haven't really had the chance to give the code a proper read, though.
23:01 tcurtis darbelo: there isn't much to read just yet.
23:03 tcurtis darbelo: just the grammar class and an example of building a very simple one up programmatically and displaying it.
23:03 lucian larlcat :))
23:04 tcurtis I still have to figure out what I will call lalrcat. :)
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23:10 tcurtis darbelo: do you have any specific questions?
23:11 darbelo Not really. What little I saw didn't strike as insane enough to ask about :)
23:11 darbelo Wait. Actually I do have a question.
23:12 darbelo Have you thought about making lalrcat output's easily parsable, say by a test harness?
23:14 tcurtis LALRcat isn't a thing that will exist just yet, since
23:14 tcurtis it's just a name idea for some sort of debugging tool.
23:14 tcurtis But having multiple output formats would probably make sense for it.
23:15 darbelo Oh, I thought you meant to use that for the "Grammar dumper"
23:16 darbelo The one that takes the tree and spits out plain text.
23:16 kid51 is now known as kid51_at_dinner
23:17 tcurtis darbelo: I had it more in mind for something that would work at the level of a textual representation of the grammar once I implement such a thing.
23:17 tcurtis although it would also work for a prettyprinter for the object representation. Hmm...
23:17 lucian left #parrot
23:18 darbelo Actually, a standalone pretty printer is much smaller.
23:18 darbelo Though less useful.
23:19 darbelo I'm just looking for stuff that will let us write tests as early as possible (Before writing code, even ;).
23:19 tcurtis I should refactor out the prettyprinter example such that it's a method on grammars rather than buried in the example.
23:20 mikehh left #parrot
23:20 darbelo Nice.
23:22 cotto_work Random question: When is Parrot fast enough?  i.e. at what point do we say that it's no longer helpful to improve Parrot's performance in a particular area?
23:23 cotto_work I'm not suggesting that it is now, of course.
23:24 sorear cotto_work: when that area stops showing up on real-world profiles
23:25 sorear e.g. right now profiling Rakudo at the C level points fingers at PCC, GC, and the object system mostly.  NCI marshalling doesn't show up, so we don't make much effort to speed that up
23:27 mikehh joined #parrot
23:29 cotto_work That's a good starting point.
23:29 dalek lalrskate: f101ff0 | tcurtis++ | t/lalr-grammar.t:
23:29 dalek lalrskate: Add test file containing basic tests for grammar creation/accessors.
23:30 dalek lalrskate: review: https://github.com/ekiru/l​alrskate/commit/f101ff0b29
23:30 dalek lalrskate: b48a628 | tcurtis++ | setup.winxed:
23:30 dalek lalrskate: Add --nowarn to testexec so inability to find classes at compile time doesn't break TAP.
23:30 dalek lalrskate: review: https://github.com/ekiru/l​alrskate/commit/b48a628d4a
23:34 cotto_work tcurtis: what's "ekiru"?
23:35 tcurtis cotto_work: three meaningless syllables.
23:35 darbelo tcurtis: I have to go now. Questions before I run away?
23:36 tcurtis darbelo: none at the moment.
23:36 darbelo Okay. See you later.
23:37 dalek lalrskate: 0395e43 | tcurtis++ | examples/prettyprint.winxed:
23:37 dalek lalrskate: Make examples/prettyprint.winxed executable.
23:37 dalek lalrskate: review: https://github.com/ekiru/l​alrskate/commit/0395e4395a
23:37 dalek lalrskate: e172bce | tcurtis++ | examples/prettyprint.winxed:
23:37 dalek lalrskate: Add #!line to prettyprint example.
23:37 dalek lalrskate: review: https://github.com/ekiru/l​alrskate/commit/e172bce4ad
23:37 dalek lalrskate: 60b3e5c | tcurtis++ | examples/prettyprint.winxed:
23:37 dalek lalrskate: [examples/prettyprint] use builtin load_bytecode instead of pirop.
23:37 dalek lalrskate: review: https://github.com/ekiru/l​alrskate/commit/60b3e5c9aa
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23:44 whiteknight good afternoon, #parrot
23:47 dalek lalrskate: 0567c68 | tcurtis++ | / (2 files):
23:47 dalek lalrskate: Factor out prettyprinting to a LALR.Grammar.as_bnf_string() method.
23:47 dalek lalrskate: review: https://github.com/ekiru/l​alrskate/commit/0567c685ce
23:51 dalek parrot/m0-prototype: 46e7feb | cotto++ | t/m0/ops/m0_labels_with (2 files):
23:51 dalek parrot/m0-prototype: add a couple test .m0 files for labels and goto
23:51 dalek parrot/m0-prototype: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/46e7febda4
23:52 kid51_at_dinner is now known as kid51
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