Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #parrot, 2011-06-27

Parrot | source cross referenced

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:03 whiteknight joined #parrot
00:04 cotto mikehh, one guy who hacks on space telescopes for $dayjob
00:04 cotto also bumped into Util
00:04 cotto whiteknight, ohai.  im in ur timezone
00:05 whiteknight isn't it so much better than the other timezones?
00:05 * pmichaud waves to all of the yapc::na attendees
00:05 cotto not the first day
00:07 dalek rakudo/nom: 3c22598 | pmichaud++ | src/core/ (2 files):
00:07 dalek rakudo/nom: Update Array.new and List.new to be more robust.
00:07 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/3c22598238
00:26 benabik joined #parrot
00:29 benabik 'ello, #parrot!
00:30 whiteknight hello benabik. How's the work going?
00:32 daniel-s left #parrot
00:32 benabik whiteknight: Not very quickly.  Been travelling.  :-D
00:32 whiteknight traveling schmaveling. You can type while you drive
00:32 benabik Uhm, no?
00:36 benabik Okay, just wanted to poke my head in here to mention I exist again.  Heading off to scout for food.
00:38 cotto benabik, you at yapc?
00:38 benabik cotto: Yes
00:38 cotto aloha, going to yapc::na?
00:38 aloha cotto: going to yapc::na is cotto or dukeleto or atrodo or Util or kid51 or benabik or soh_cah_toa
00:38 cotto sweet
00:38 benabik I have no idea what I'm doing, but I'm here.  :-D
00:38 dalek parrot/whiteknight/packfilewrapper: 2fbd0d2 | Whiteknight++ | / (6 files):
00:38 dalek parrot/whiteknight/packfilewrapper: Rename functions to Parrot_pf_serialize and Parrot_pf_deserialize. cotto++
00:38 dalek parrot/whiteknight/packfilewrapper: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/2fbd0d28a7
00:38 cotto if you're on foot, there's a mexican place 10-15 minutes away that's not bad
00:39 benabik I drove here, so am highly moble.
00:39 cotto I flew here, so I'm not. ;{
00:40 benabik Driving was cheaper than flying two people.  And let me stop at my folk's on the way.
00:40 benabik If people get tired of hotel-centric stuff, I'm willing to do some ferrying.  :-D
00:41 cotto benabik, I'm sure we'll take you up on that.
00:41 contingencyplan left #parrot
00:43 * benabik is off to investigate "The Thirsty Monk".  Pub grub!
00:44 * whiteknight is getting thirsty just reading this
00:45 whiteknight luckily, I have a fridge stocked with all the fixins for making mohitos
00:47 dalek parrot/whiteknight/packfilewrapper: e10d9e0 | Whiteknight++ | src/pmc/packfileview.pmc:
00:47 dalek parrot/whiteknight/packfilewrapper: Combine trigger_init and trigger_load methods into a single trigger(STRING *flag) method. This change looks forward to a time when packfiles can flag Subs more flexibly than we do now. Right now the only accepted values are 'load' and 'init'
00:47 dalek parrot/whiteknight/packfilewrapper: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/e10d9e07fd
00:48 whiteknight cotto++ for that suggestion too
00:50 cotto whiteknight++ for doing things
00:50 whiteknight the things are easy. The good ideas are hard
00:53 cotto whiteknight, does that branch build for you?
00:53 whiteknight yes
00:54 whiteknight you need to reconfig to make sure the new pmcs get included in the makefile
00:54 cotto My compiler complains about some c89 violations
00:54 whiteknight oh, that's very plausible
00:54 cotto or did.  let me see if they're still ther
00:54 cotto e
00:54 cotto they are
00:55 cotto do you run Configure.pl with --no-stupid-c89-limits ?
00:55 whiteknight my adherance to C89 is pathetic at best
00:55 whiteknight I compile with clang
00:55 whiteknight let me try again with g++
00:55 whiteknight the crotchety, whiney, complaining senior citizen of the compiler world
00:56 dukeleto lulz
00:57 dukeleto whiteknight: does that make gcc the senior citizen that just doesn't give a shit?
00:58 whiteknight clang is the hip young ne'er do well with his rock music
00:59 cotto whiteknight, what about some tests?
01:00 whiteknight I'm getting there
01:01 cotto ok
01:12 whiteknight I just compiled with g++ no problems
01:16 whiteknight ...and passed coretest
01:21 whiteknight cotto: I need to provide information in PackfileView to either get the total number of constants of each type, or return an array of all constants of each type. Any particular way you would like to see that done?
01:21 whiteknight right now I provide get_*_keyed_int vtables, but without bounds information or iterable interfaces that's useless
01:23 cotto whiteknight, why not make it iterable?
01:24 whiteknight There are three groups which we would need to iterate over: PMC, STRING, and FLOATVAL
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01:24 cotto I see.
01:24 whiteknight I feel like I would prefer to add a method to either return counts, or return arrays of constants
01:25 whiteknight but adding three methods for the purpose seems clunky
01:25 whiteknight and adding one method that takes "STRING", "PMC", or "FLOATVAL" string keys seems stupid too
01:25 cotto yeah
01:26 cotto and having an iterator that returns all three types isn't amazing either
01:27 whiteknight how would that even work, shift_* on the iterator?
01:27 cotto poorly
01:27 whiteknight and then a whole new iterator type just for this rare purpose?
01:28 cotto having three methods seems like the least bad approach atm
01:29 whiteknight howabout inspect_str("counts") returns a 3-element FIA with counts. I can wraie up some library code in Winxed or PIR to do fancy stuff with it
01:29 cotto what about INTVAL?
01:29 whiteknight INTVAL constants are stored in the bytecode stream directly, not stored in the constants table
01:29 cotto oh, right
01:29 cotto how special
01:29 whiteknight magical and lovely
01:30 whiteknight actually, it's good for performance so I won't complain
01:30 cotto yeah
01:30 cotto I like that idea.  I'd prefer a hash, but the concept is good.
01:30 whiteknight inspect_str seems like the best. The functionality is not commonly-needed, so I don't want to add methods for it
01:30 whiteknight hash is fine too
01:31 cotto harder to mess up
01:31 whiteknight {"pmc" : x, "string" : y, "num" : z }
01:32 whiteknight okay, I'll get started on that stuff tomorrow. For now, bed
01:32 cotto 'night
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01:52 dalek rakudo/nom: 8812718 | pmichaud++ | / (11 files):
01:52 dalek rakudo/nom: Create an opcode for building Parcels; the opcode also handles replacing
01:52 dalek rakudo/nom: any PMCNULL values that might show up (e.g., in Arrays).
01:52 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/88127187ef
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02:39 cotto NotFound, ping
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02:43 cotto hi soh_cah_toa
02:43 cotto where are you at?
02:44 benabik pub good, grub fail.
02:44 benabik But there's an excellent cafe downtown that serves amazing southern-type food.
02:44 soh_cah_toa cotto: in my room
02:47 soh_cah_toa the wireless here is teh sux0rz
02:47 soh_cah_toa buncha perl geeks clogging it up
02:48 atrodo ya, i can imagine how slow internet's going to be this week
02:48 cotto I'm using dukeleto's tethered wireless.  no need to clog up the hotel's
02:48 benabik soh_cah_toa: Yes, just noticing that.
02:49 atrodo I'm hoping my boss leaves his new 4g mifi on
02:50 soh_cah_toa msg kid51 i think i remember you saying that yapc attendees should message you when they arrive. well, i'm here. yay :)
02:50 aloha OK. I'll deliver the message.
02:52 soh_cah_toa 18 hours in car == not fun
02:52 atrodo Aye, no doubt.  I only had 6 hours
02:53 cotto argh
02:53 cotto that's about as much time as I spent on planes and in airports
02:54 bubaflub left #parrot
02:54 benabik Maybe I'll turn on my iPad's cell modem again.  :-/
02:54 cotto soh_cah_toa, where did you come from?
02:54 soh_cah_toa new jersey
02:55 dukeleto soh_cah_toa: you are hardcore for driving that long
02:56 atrodo thats' dedication soh_cah_toa++
02:56 soh_cah_toa dukeleto: not me. i got free ride w/ parents :)
02:56 soh_cah_toa i'm a mooch, yes
02:56 atrodo soh_cah_toa-- i remove my karma then
02:56 cotto also an option
02:56 soh_cah_toa ha!
02:56 benabik 16 hours for me, but I split it in two.
02:58 Topic for #parrot is now Parrot 3.5.0 "Menelaus" released | http://parrot.org | Log: http://irclog.perlgeek.de/parrot/today
03:02 atrodo cotto or dukeleto, can either of you add a post-hook on github?  I'm going to rollout the new isparrotfastyet, consequences ignored
03:02 cotto one of us can
03:02 cotto It's not me
03:03 atrodo I wasn't sure, so I'll wait for dukeleto
03:04 soh_cah_toa i'm looking at the site now. what's oofib?
03:05 atrodo one of the benchmarks included in parrot
03:05 cotto examples/benchmarks/oofib.pir
03:05 cotto object-oriented fibonacci
03:05 atrodo hmmm, looks like i forgot to add the descriptions i "painstakingly" created
03:07 dukeleto atrodo: what do you need?
03:14 alester left #parrot
03:14 atrodo goodnight #parrot, see you tomorrow
03:15 soh_cah_toa see ya
03:16 cotto 'night
03:18 dalek rakudo/nom: ab1dda5 | pmichaud++ | src/core/ (15 files):
03:18 dalek rakudo/nom: Convert some more pir:: opcodes to nqp:: .
03:18 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/ab1dda587c
03:32 soh_cah_toa cotto: are you gonna be at the breakfast?
03:34 cotto soh_cah_toa, I didn't realize there was one.
03:34 cotto sure
03:34 soh_cah_toa yeah, at 9:00. it's on the schedule on the website
03:34 cotto 9 isn't too bad
03:39 soh_cah_toa i'll try and look for dukeleto since he's the only one i'd recognize
03:41 cotto soh_cah_toa, http://trac.parrot.org/parrot​/wiki/Yapc10Bof#Grouppicture
03:42 cotto the badges will help
03:43 soh_cah_toa oh yay, i get a badge
03:43 * cotto sleeps
03:44 soh_cah_toa me too
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03:46 dukeleto bubaflub: werd
03:46 bubaflub hola dukeleto
03:47 dukeleto bubaflub: how goes?
03:47 bubaflub dukeleto: not bad, not bad.  you with all the peeps at yapc?
03:48 dukeleto bubaflub: yeps. Busily writing my talk for tomorrow
03:48 bubaflub dukeleto: very nice.  wish i could be there with y'all
03:59 dukeleto bubaflub: how is parrot-gmp ?
04:02 bubaflub dukeleto: not bad.  had some progress since the recent blog - all the random number functions require a specific struct and initialization / seeding so i got that in place with tests.  monday i should have all the integer functions totally covered.
04:03 bubaflub dukeleto: after that it's hooking up distutils to do the heavy lifting, checking we've got the right version of parrot and GMP, and adding some more basic docs.
04:08 dukeleto bubaflub: awesome. You are making good progress
04:09 bubaflub dukeleto: woot.  those are all the mid-term deliverables.  i'll probably have some extra time so i'll try to get some NQP examples together.  also, i've been talking with plobsing about some NCI stuff.
04:11 dukeleto bubaflub: what kind of NCI stuff?
04:12 bubaflub dukeleto: getting docs up to date first and foremost.  with recent deprecations many parrot bundled examples broke, so i'm working slowly on a script and a patch for ncidef2pir.pl to get those working again.
04:13 bubaflub dukeleto: mostly just pestering him with questions so i can extract some of that NCI knowledge.
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04:21 dukeleto bubaflub: are the examples seperate files? If so, we should have tests that make sure they work
04:21 bubaflub dukeleto: right now there is only one example - but how should i make sure they work?  check the output?
04:21 bubaflub dukeleto: er, i mean, the examples are full blown programs on their own.  maybe a Test::More that shells out to run something?
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04:25 dukeleto bubaflub: sure. We need to make sure our examples continue to work, or they are pretty useless
04:27 bubaflub dukeleto: right right.   sorry, for a moment i thought you were talking about Parrot-GMP examples of which there is only one but it works.  some bundled parrot NCI examples do not work because of NCI deprecations.
04:27 bubaflub dukeleto: those examples still compile from definition -> pir -> pbc fine, but through a runtime error about an invalid signature and what not.  i can fix the examples that we have in the repository but ideally we still want tests to actually execute them to see if they still work.  i'll keep thinking about how we can do that.
04:32 bubaflub goodnight, #parrot.
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05:14 dalek rakudo/nom: c58a3dd | pmichaud++ | NOMMAP.markdown:
05:14 dalek rakudo/nom: More NOMMAP notes.
05:14 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/c58a3dd504
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06:45 dalek rakudo/nom: 27cef7c | pmichaud++ | src/core/ (2 files):
06:45 dalek rakudo/nom: Gather needs to execute its body in sink context.
06:45 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/27cef7c33c
06:45 dalek rakudo/nom: 8c2ecf4 | pmichaud++ | src/core/ (2 files):
06:45 dalek rakudo/nom: Add Any.grep, Any.min.  Fix &infix:<cmp> to handle infinity arguments.
06:45 dalek rakudo/nom: Remove method List.sink for refactoring.
06:45 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/8c2ecf40e4
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06:48 Eclesia hi
06:49 sorear hi
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07:05 dalek rakudo/nom: b1195a8 | moritz++ | t/spectest.data:
07:05 dalek rakudo/nom: three more passing spectest files
07:05 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/b1195a87c4
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08:53 dalek rakudo/nom: 01af805 | moritz++ | NOMMAP.markdown:
08:53 dalek rakudo/nom: add missing regexes to NOMMAP
08:53 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/01af805d1b
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09:15 dalek rakudo/nom: 30f5cc9 | pmichaud++ | src/core/MapIter.pm:
09:15 dalek rakudo/nom: Add last/next/redo handling to map loops in MapIter.  Unfortunately,
09:15 dalek rakudo/nom: getting the exception handlers to work cleanly means going back to Q:PIR
09:15 dalek rakudo/nom: for much of the MapIter body, although it's very straightforward code.
09:15 dalek rakudo/nom: Fortunately, this gives us another huge speed boost, such that
09:15 dalek rakudo/nom: using map to iterate over a range is twice as fast as it was before
09:15 dalek rakudo/nom: (about 80% faster than master).
09:15 dalek rakudo/nom: while loop with an increment variable.
09:15 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/30f5cc9624
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09:54 tadzik great news
10:02 dalek rakudo/nom: 3f99683 | moritz++ | t/00-parrot/09-pir.t:
10:02 dalek rakudo/nom: adapt t/00-parrot/09-pir.t to current reality
10:02 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/3f99683abc
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12:34 whiteknight good morning, #parrot
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12:41 Eclesia hi whiteknight
12:42 whiteknight Hello Eclesia. How are you doing today?
12:43 Eclesia fine, working in java, like all monday ^^
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12:45 bubaflub ~
12:51 whiteknight good morning bubaflub
12:51 bubaflub morning whiteknight
12:51 bubaflub how's life?
12:51 whiteknight Good. I'm on vacation next week, so I'm looking forward to that
12:52 dukeleto ~~
12:53 whiteknight hello duke! It's a pleasure to see you online this early in the morning
12:54 whiteknight but since you're probably so bleery-eyed, I won't talk too much until you get coffee :)
12:55 mikehh hi whiteknight, how you doin' today
12:55 whiteknight hello mikehh! I'm doing surprisingly well, for a monday.
12:55 dukeleto whiteknight: i already went for a run and took a shower sans coffee
12:56 benabik joined #parrot
12:56 * dukeleto goes to get his conf badge
12:57 mikehh just built a new system, core i7 2600 16GB Ram and for the moment 2TB Hard drive
12:57 mikehh haven't installed op system yet
12:57 * benabik is at breakfast. Red shirt, brown hat. :-)
12:57 whiteknight mikehh: oh wow. Sounds like a monster.
12:58 mikehh still working with my old 4 core amd phenom 8GB RAM
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13:00 mikehh the new one should be faster, morew memory and 4 cores but 8 threads
13:04 Eclesia he calls that old ...
13:05 mikehh Well I built it about 2 years ago...
13:05 Eclesia it has more memory then my current one lol
13:07 mikehh My son just got a 6 core/12 threads Extreme edition with 24GB RAM and one of those Top end ATI graphics cards (spent about twice what I did)
13:08 whiteknight My son bit me on the shoulder and drew blood
13:08 benabik ( whiteknight's kid )--
13:09 mikehh even my grandson's have stopped doin' that sort of thing
13:09 mikehh mind you they are 9 now, will be 10 in december
13:10 cotto left #parrot
13:11 * mikehh thinks I must be gettin' old or somethin' - so I am told anyway :-}
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13:39 dalek parrot: 643dba0 | mikehh++ | src/oo.c:
13:39 dalek parrot: fix codetest failure - linelength, update copyright
13:39 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/643dba012b
13:42 Eclesia copyright is bad :p
13:43 mikehh Eclesia: seems to be required by our coding standards, so may as well keep it up-to-date :-}
13:45 mikehh and copyleft seems to have problems too
13:48 atrodo =~  Good morning from asheville!
13:48 whiteknight good morning atrodo
13:48 mikehh hiho atrodo
13:49 mikehh have you connected with our other intrepid parrot developers there
13:49 atrodo not yet, just got setup
13:49 atrodo But i'm pretty sure I just saw Util
13:50 benabik I see Util. He's in the lecture room thing.
13:52 benabik I like the dispy bot in #yapc. Displays the title for any link posted.
13:53 atrodo That is a nice feature
13:55 atrodo this is a very long room
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14:08 dukeleto atrodo: where are you in this ridiculously large room?
14:08 atrodo far right, second row from the front and in the middle
14:09 atrodo yellow brown shirt
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14:19 dalek winxed/include: 68eab5e | NotFound++ | winxedst1.winxed:
14:19 dalek winxed/include: implement $include
14:19 dalek winxed/include: review: https://github.com/NotFoun​d/winxed/commit/68eab5e59f
14:24 dalek winxed/include: 462f52d | NotFound++ | winxedst1.winxed:
14:24 dalek winxed/include: fix local variable hiding parameter with the same name
14:24 dalek winxed/include: review: https://github.com/NotFoun​d/winxed/commit/462f52d737
14:25 mikehh All tests PASS (pre/post-config, make corevm/make coretest, smoke (#16468), fulltest) at 3_5_0-45-g643dba0
14:25 mikehh Ubuntu 11.04 i386 (gcc --optimize)
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14:51 dalek winxed: fb73827 | NotFound++ | winxedst1.winxed:
14:51 dalek winxed: fix extern function at root namespace level
14:51 dalek winxed: review: https://github.com/NotFoun​d/winxed/commit/fb738272df
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14:56 dalek winxed/include: fb73827 | NotFound++ | winxedst1.winxed:
14:56 dalek winxed/include: fix extern function at root namespace level
14:56 dalek winxed/include: review: https://github.com/NotFoun​d/winxed/commit/fb738272df
14:56 dalek winxed/include: 51482b9 | NotFound++ | winxedst1.winxed:
14:56 dalek winxed/include: Merge branch 'master' into include
14:56 dalek winxed/include: review: https://github.com/NotFoun​d/winxed/commit/51482b94f1
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15:17 Eclesia NotFound: just asking, is namespace which are not identifier support, somewhere on your roadmap ?
15:28 NotFound Eclesia: yes, but is not a big priority right now.
15:29 NotFound Maybe after extern function and $include got finished, but I don't think I'll add more features before the next stable parrot release.
15:34 Eclesia hm.. so I'll have to change all my namespaces .. ok
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16:02 atrodo dukeleto++
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16:07 cottoo kid51++
16:20 dalek nqp: fa94a60 | pmichaud++ | src/PAST/NQP.pir:
16:20 dalek nqp: Add first pass at handling lexical returns; create a new :pasttype<lexotic>
16:20 dalek nqp: that creates a continuation block and attaches it to a lexical name.
16:20 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/fa94a608a1
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16:30 dalek rakudo/nom: f647b57 | pmichaud++ | / (3 files):
16:30 dalek rakudo/nom: Switch to using lexical returns.  A return invocation now attaches
16:30 dalek rakudo/nom: to the lexical environment in which it is written, instead of being
16:30 dalek rakudo/nom: purely dynamic.  This implementation uses continuations directly
16:30 dalek rakudo/nom: instead of Parrot's exception handling, which may be both good and
16:30 dalek rakudo/nom: bad.  We'll have to see how it all works out.
16:30 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/f647b57004
16:30 dalek rakudo/nom: 8b62352 | pmichaud++ | t/00-parrot/09-pir.t:
16:30 dalek rakudo/nom: Merge branch 'nom' of github.com:rakudo/rakudo into nom
16:30 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/8b62352854
16:39 hercynium left #parrot
16:43 whiteknight I've been wanting NQP to do that same exact thing for a long time
16:43 whiteknight use return continuations instead of return control exceptions
16:45 lucian left #parrot
16:52 cottoo left #parrot
16:58 benabik left #parrot
16:59 dalek winxed/include: 4282a77 | NotFound++ | t/ (2 files):
16:59 dalek winxed/include: test $include
16:59 dalek winxed/include: review: https://github.com/NotFoun​d/winxed/commit/4282a77d40
17:20 * JimmyZ wonders why not use include instead of $include
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17:41 dalek rakudo/nom: 3cefeb4 | pmichaud++ | / (4 files):
17:41 dalek rakudo/nom: Make fail() into a soft-fail.
17:41 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/3cefeb4537
17:49 JimmyZ left #parrot
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18:09 dalek rakudo/nom: c461a7d | pmichaud++ | / (2 files):
18:09 dalek rakudo/nom: Update NOMMAP (remove fail() from things-to-do).
18:09 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/c461a7d11e
18:10 dalek rakudo: 1fcb142 | (Solomon Foster)++ | src/core/Complex.pm:
18:10 dalek rakudo: Fix (-1) ** -i bug by switching to Complex log.
18:10 dalek rakudo: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/1fcb142816
18:18 benabik joined #parrot
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18:46 Eclesia joined #parrot
18:47 Eclesia hi
18:48 dukeleto ~~
18:48 dukeleto Eclesia: hola
18:48 Eclesia what are the ~ for ?
18:49 whiteknight just a short way to say hello
18:50 whiteknight dukeleto: how's the conference going?
18:51 cotto no injuries so far
18:51 Coke ~ === wave
18:57 hercynium left #parrot
18:59 Eclesia ...
19:00 Eclesia NotFound: _ are valid in namespace in winxed ?
19:00 kid51 left #parrot
19:00 hercynium joined #parrot
19:02 dukeleto whiteknight: quite well
19:03 dukeleto whiteknight: we had a parroty lunch with many parrot hackers
19:04 dukeleto whiteknight: cotto and I have been thinking about what kind of language we should use to generate M0
19:04 dukeleto whiteknight: have any ideas?
19:08 cotto at this point, criteria are more important than a specific language recommendation
19:09 whiteknight for the lowest-level system language that compiles down to M0, I suspect we want something syntax-light and familiar enough to get started working with it
19:10 whiteknight something that's easy and efficient to compile seems like a good idea too, but easy-to-implement compilers might take precidence
19:13 cotto a very straightforward translation between the language and M0 is important
19:14 cotto some magic, but not much
19:14 whiteknight I do keep coming back to the idea of something C-like, since those kinds of compilers are well understood and the syntax is very familiar to most parrot hackers
19:15 benabik +1
19:15 whiteknight although, something lighter on syntax like a ruby or python subset (minus much of the whitespace issues) would probably work just as well
19:15 cotto it's also important to keep in mind that we'll be writing a ton of code in this language
19:16 whiteknight if we could modify Winxed to do it, I think I would prefer that the most. I don't know if winxed is in that kind of condition. A lot of winxed features rely on PIR features, which might not map well at this stage
19:16 cotto c-like is great
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19:16 whiteknight so you would need a pared-down winxed subset, which isn't unthinkable
19:17 cotto if we wanted winxed, we'd need to fork it anyway
19:17 whiteknight right
19:17 whiteknight and like I said, a lot of winxed syntax would need to be cut out
19:17 whiteknight namespaces, class, etc
19:18 Eclesia if I understand correctly : cotto want pir, but with c-like syntaxe. nothing else ?
19:18 cotto yeah.   the object system will need minimialism
19:18 cotto Eclesia, no
19:18 whiteknight Eclesia: we want a very low-level language to replace PIR
19:18 cotto and C
19:19 Eclesia replace C ?
19:19 whiteknight cotto: I say we take a list of capabilities of M0, then take C and start ripping out everything from C that isn't covered by M0 or that doesn't map nicely, or that isn't required for our purposes
19:19 whiteknight Including the entire C preprocessor
19:19 whiteknight because implementing macros is too big a pain for too little benefit
19:20 cotto whiteknight, I like that
19:20 whiteknight We can write that compiler in any language. Winxed might be a very good choice for that purpose
19:20 sorear will C-M0 have structs?
19:20 cotto we don't need a strict subset of C, but something close to C would be great
19:20 cotto sorear, it will have to
19:21 whiteknight right, but that's a good base to start with. Remove what we don't need, add what we do need, and try to keep it easy and familiar
19:22 kid51 joined #parrot
19:22 sorear if you're going to make a C-like language I have two small requests to make
19:22 cotto sorear, please do
19:23 sorear 1. int* x, y; declares two pointers, like C# (int* is just a type, no "declaration mirrors use" magic)
19:23 sorear 2. functional casts int(x); ((int)x) is obnoxious to write and parse
19:23 cotto that bit of C isn't well thought out.  +1
19:23 cotto also a nice idea
19:24 cotto any suggestion for a name for this thing?
19:24 Eclesia (remove pointers, values by copy, object by ref, much easier to understand)
19:25 p6eval left #parrot
19:25 dalek rakudo/nom: 9a33668 | pmichaud++ | src/ (3 files):
19:26 sorear Eclesia: this is the language we're going to implement the object system *in*
19:26 cotto yes
19:26 sorear Eclesia: it won't have objects
19:27 sorear except as a matter of convention (PMC*)
19:28 Coke cotto: why not just write it in C to start with. then you can see what you needed or not. Rather than adding an entire new language to the pile of things that needs to be created.
19:28 dalek left #parrot
19:28 whiteknight cotto: M0C
19:28 Coke (design it ex post facto)
19:29 cotto Coke, it needs to compile to M0
19:29 whiteknight Coke: because we need the language to build M0. We're going to need to write a compiler anyway to generate the M0 code we want
19:29 whiteknight so we can try to modify an existing C compiler to do what we want, including ignoring all the C syntax we don't want or can't support
19:29 Coke Ah, so you can't use C for free to start with.
19:30 whiteknight right. Would if we could
19:30 cotto whiteknight, I'm not sure about that approach.  I guess it depends on the quality of the code of the compiler and how easy it is to retarget.
19:31 benabik I really think int* x,y being two pointers would be very confusing. Esp since I'd write int *x, y;
19:31 benabik Although I guess int* and int * could be different...
19:31 whiteknight cotto: Yeah, I don't recommend it. I'm simply pointing that out as the alternative, if we don't make our own compiler for it
19:32 whiteknight well, before talking about declarations, what types does M0 handle?
19:32 cotto not having to write a full compiler is nice though
19:32 whiteknight do we have more than just intval, floatval, string, pmc, and maybe a void* ptr type?
19:32 whiteknight If our type system is confined enough, we don't need things like * for pointers or other gabbledegak
19:33 benabik True, and possibly better.
19:33 cotto I like that idea.
19:33 whiteknight we only need "int*" if we want to differentiate between "pointer to an int" from "just another pointer"
19:33 cotto not sure if it'll be feasible though
19:34 p6eval joined #parrot
19:34 benabik Although isn't there no difference between string and pmc in M0?
19:34 whiteknight I haven't read the M0 design docs in a little while, I don't even remember what all types it can work with
19:34 cotto benabik, right.
19:34 NotFound A backend for a subset of winxed is doable. Is what winxedxx does.
19:34 cotto there'll probably also be primitive strings that aren't entirely unlike C-strings
19:35 whiteknight Notfound: Could you start writing up some details about how to do that? I would like to use Winxed or something winxed-alike if possible
19:37 NotFound The basic recipe is simple: just use the "target": "parse" in the options passed to the compiler, and then do things with the result ;)
19:37 kid51 left #parrot
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19:38 NotFound The only problem is the high coupling with the implementation of the compiler.
19:40 cotto I've got a gist I'll use to start a wiki page.
19:41 NotFound BTW I think the clean and simple solution to the "int* x, y;" thing is not allowing multiple declarations.
19:41 benabik left #parrot
19:41 cotto or make int* the type
19:42 NotFound cotto: if the goal is to make the language close to C, that is a big source of confusion.
19:42 cotto NotFound, yeah
19:44 cotto I wonder if this is one of those things like "say" that will be different but still feel natural and sensible
19:44 NotFound About the functional cast, there is also a solution: being compatible with a subset of C++ instead of a subset of C.
19:50 zby_home left #parrot
19:50 whiteknight nobody wants compatibility, I don't think. Just familiarity
19:51 whiteknight it doesn't need to be C or C++, just needs to have some of the same kinds of syntax
19:51 whiteknight We could just as easily be inspired by JavaScript, and not lose anything
19:52 NotFound Comptibility has the advantage of easier testability of proofs of concept.
19:55 cotto whiteknight, yes
19:55 cotto C is nice because Parrot's currently written in it.
19:56 * Eclesia interrupt one second : how to load a pbc in winxed at any time.
19:56 * Eclesia ?
19:56 NotFound Eclesia: load_bytecode(filename)
19:56 whiteknight eclesia: load_bytecode("foo.pbc")
19:56 whiteknight :)
19:56 Eclesia thanks
19:57 cjh left #parrot
20:00 cotto I suspect (but can't verify) that attempting to maintain compatibility with an existing language will be more work than it's worth
20:02 NotFound We have powerful tools for writing languages, the hypothesis may be easily verifiable.
20:02 hercynium left #parrot
20:04 daniel-s left #parrot
20:05 whiteknight cotto: I don't want compatibility. Just familiarity
20:05 whiteknight take ideas from existing syntax, but don't be a slave to it
20:05 cotto whiteknight, that's great.  I agree.
20:06 whiteknight Basically, when I say a "C-alike syntax" I'm talking about post-circumfix parenthesis being a function call, brackets to delimit blocks, etc
20:06 whiteknight infix operators for arithmetic, common keywords like "if", "else", "while", etc.
20:06 whiteknight that's all I want
20:06 cotto and when I say "lisp-like", the room suddenly gets quiet
20:06 cotto ;)
20:07 whiteknight (we (don't (want (lisp)))
20:07 cotto (which is one of the many reason I'm not suggesting it)
20:07 whiteknight or, let me rephrase that. (I (don't (want (lisp))))
20:07 cotto the first version was fine
20:07 whiteknight I won't speak for (we)
20:08 cotto or at least some subset of "we"
20:08 whiteknight I put the "I" in "we"
20:08 * NotFound sing We are the world
20:09 cotto I are the world?
20:10 benabik joined #parrot
20:10 NotFound #define I We
20:16 * cotto is watching kid51++ talk at yapc
20:16 whiteknight oh, what's he talking about?
20:16 cotto this might sting a bit
20:16 cotto recording now
20:17 whiteknight what might sting?
20:17 cotto the talk
20:18 benabik "Open Source Software Projects: Two Stages and Ten Questions"
20:18 soh_cah_toa joined #parrot
20:22 whiteknight why would it sting? I'm not following
20:24 dukeleto ~~
20:24 * dukeleto is listening to kid51++ talk
20:25 * atrodo is also listening to kid51++ talk
20:25 benabik Ditto, ditto, etc etc
20:26 * Eclesia suffer a parrot overdose. going to bed +++
20:26 Eclesia left #parrot
20:27 whiteknight if you're going to overdose on anything, Parrot is a good choice
20:29 benabik Yar, a little bit of sting so far.  Brutal honesty and all. :-)
20:29 NotFound I'm thinking about how and where to install winxed include files. The 'inst_inc' section in distutils seem a bit limited.
20:30 whiteknight left #parrot
20:33 dukeleto bubaflub: ping
20:35 bubaflub dukeleto: pong
20:37 dukeleto bubaflub: i have a parrot-gmp repo. parrot setup.pir doesn't do anything yet. What do I do to take it for a test drive?
20:37 bubaflub dukeleto: ah, yes.  sorry about that.  i haven't gotten to setup.pir yet.
20:38 bubaflub dukeleto: i've included the generated PIR from the Winxed sources.  are you at HEAD?
20:38 dukeleto bubaflub: yep, just cloned a minute ago
20:38 bubaflub parrot -o src/GMP/Common.pbc src/GMP/Common.pir
20:38 bubaflub parrot -o src/GMP/Integer.pbc src/GMP/Integer.pir
20:39 bubaflub ooooh, sorry, before that
20:39 bubaflub parrot -o src/GMP/raw.pbc src/GMP/raw.pir
20:39 bubaflub then you should be able to do parrot-nqp t/harness
20:40 dukeleto bubaflub: this leads me to believe that you should spend 5 minutes to make setup.pir work :)
20:40 bubaflub dukeleto: indeed.
20:42 dukeleto $ parrot-nqp t/harness
20:42 dukeleto "load_bytecode" couldn't find file 'rosella/harness.pbc'
20:43 dukeleto bubaflub: i have rosella, but not installed
20:43 dukeleto bubaflub: how do I tell the harness where to find it?
20:43 bubaflub dukeleto: ah, i'm not entirely sure... i just have rosella via plumage.  perhaps there is some way to include a path with parrot-nqp?
20:44 dalek parrot: 8352b99 | fperrad++ | tools/dev/fetch_languages.pl:
20:44 dalek parrot: [languages] Winxed moves to Github
20:44 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/8352b99543
20:46 dukeleto bubaflub: i can try to install via plumage. you should document that that is the preferred way to get parrot-gmp and rosella to play nice
20:46 bubaflub dukeleto: while i figure that out, you should be able to run winxed examples/basic.winxed
20:48 dukeleto bubaflub: yay, it worked
20:48 bubaflub dukeleto: *phew*
20:50 dalek rakudo/nom: b79c7b3 | (Martin Berends)++ | src/core/Cool.pm:
20:50 dalek rakudo/nom: [src/core/Cool.pm] add sub equivalents of 11 Str methods
20:50 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/b79c7b360a
20:51 fperrad left #parrot
20:51 benabik "shoving Parrot up Firefox"  Interesting phrase
20:51 atrodo a parrot up a fox... hmmm...
20:52 dalek parrot-gmp: 6882f70 | bubaflub++ | examples/basic.winxed:
20:52 dalek parrot-gmp: we've got a VTABLE override, let's use it
20:52 dalek parrot-gmp: review: https://github.com/bubaflub/​parrot-gmp/commit/6882f70c81
20:52 dalek parrot-gmp: 49d9982 | bubaflub++ | README.md:
20:52 dalek parrot-gmp: clarify dependencies
20:52 dalek parrot-gmp: review: https://github.com/bubaflub/​parrot-gmp/commit/49d9982fa0
20:55 ambs left #parrot
20:58 cotto and back
21:08 dalek rakudo/nom: 0594102 | (Martin Berends)++ | t/spectest.data:
21:08 dalek rakudo/nom: [t/spectest.data] uncomment tests for chomp chop and flip
21:08 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/0594102323
21:12 atrodo Oh, good, looks like ipfy will have some new data soon
21:12 bluescreen left #parrot
21:33 soh_cah_toa left #parrot
21:41 bubaflub seen plobsing
21:41 aloha plobsing was last seen in #parrot 3 days 3 hours ago saying "wasn't that ES4?".
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21:47 Psyche^ is now known as Patterner
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21:56 dalek parrot: c899706 | pmichaud++ | compilers/pct/src/PAST/ (2 files):
21:56 dalek parrot: [pct]:  Add 'signature' attribute to PAST::Node, to explicitly request a particular signature for evaluating children.
21:56 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/c899706663
21:57 benabik Ahhh, more PAST changes! ;-)
21:57 dalek nqp: 342cd53 | pmichaud++ | tools/build/PARROT_REVISION:
21:57 dalek nqp: Bump PARROT_REVISION to get PAST::Node signatures.
21:57 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/342cd53ae5
21:58 pmichaud this change to PAST is pretty small.  :)
21:58 pmichaud but it increase flexibility a lot.
21:58 pmichaud *increases
21:59 jsut joined #parrot
21:59 benabik 'sall good.
21:59 soh_cah_toa left #parrot
21:59 jnthn__ pmichaud: ooh
21:59 jnthn__ pmichaud: How's that one used?
22:00 NotFound dukeleto: about the load_bytecode problem, you can try to set the PARROT_LIBRARY env var.
22:00 benabik PCT needs more usage doc across the board. :-/
22:02 benabik left #parrot
22:03 jnthn__ pmichaud: Wait, does this mean we can say which node in a multi-node element is the result one? :)
22:04 jsut_ left #parrot
22:07 lichtkind left #parrot
22:08 NotFound pmichaud: There is command or something to update nqp-rx stage 0 files?
22:09 pmichaud jnthn__: yes, that's exactly what it does.  :)
22:10 pmichaud similar to what we can do for pirops.  But I'd only use it on PAST::Stmt, PAST::Stmts, and PAST::Op :pasttype<stmts>
22:10 pmichaud in other cases it's likely to not dtrt
22:10 jnthn__ Najs! :D
22:10 dalek rakudo/nom: dc16a4f | pmichaud++ | / (3 files):
22:10 dalek rakudo/nom: Refactor return handling to be in a single place (DRY).  Handle the case where someone tries to return from an already-exited subroutine.
22:10 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/dc16a4fc72
22:10 dalek rakudo/nom: 3efe8f8 | pmichaud++ | NOMMAP.markdown:
22:10 dalek rakudo/nom: NOMMAP update.
22:10 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/3efe8f89e8
22:11 pmichaud mainly it means you can specify a sequence of things to be done but you're no longer limited to the last one (as long as you don't have more than ten things to be done... but if that's the case you can factor it anyway :)
22:11 pmichaud ...limited to the result being the last one.
22:12 pmichaud In this case, I had some cleanups that needed performing after the calculations but I didn't want them affecting the overall result.  Fixing it with if nodes and temporary registers was going to be a pain.
22:12 pmichaud this is a lot more straightforward :)
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22:15 dalek rakudo/nom: 872a536 | jonathan++ | NOMMAP.markdown:
22:15 dalek rakudo/nom: Comment on a couple of nommap items.
22:15 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/872a536639
22:15 jnthn__ pmichaud: I can see that reducing pain in a few cases I've had in the PAST, yes.
22:15 lichtkind joined #parrot
22:23 whiteknight sorear++
22:31 dalek rakudo/nom: 4fc90f1 | jonathan++ | src/Perl6/Metamodel/ParametricRoleHOW.pm:
22:31 dalek rakudo/nom: Fix role-based dispatch up a bit more. Should be able to distinguish by Positional and Associative now.
22:31 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/4fc90f1e83
22:35 PacoLinux left #parrot
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22:48 dalek rakudo/nom: eda6101 | jonathan++ | src/Perl6/Metamodel/ParametricRoleHOW.pm:
22:48 dalek rakudo/nom: is_composed in ParametricRoleHOW so we can stub a role.
22:48 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/eda61012d4
22:48 dalek rakudo/nom: 144660f | jonathan++ | src/core/traits.pm:
22:48 dalek rakudo/nom: Stub Positional/Associative/Callable in preparation for making sigils map to roles. Need to do this really early.
22:48 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/144660ffca
22:51 cotto joined #parrot
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23:07 dalek rakudo/nom: 0035ddb | jonathan++ | / (5 files):
23:07 dalek rakudo/nom: Roles should be narrower than Cool/Any/Mu.
23:07 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/0035ddb46d
23:22 bluescreen joined #parrot
23:26 NotFound I'm glad to see winxed mentioned in a presentation at YAPC, but a little disapointed seen it descibed as a library.
23:27 whiteknight who described it as a library?
23:29 NotFound James E Keenan to parrot-dev  - Text in Open Office format: http://thenceforward.net/per​l/yapc/YAPC-NA-2011/ossp.odt
23:34 cottoo joined #parrot
23:35 cotto left #parrot
23:36 dalek rakudo/nom: f670236 | jonathan++ | src/Perl6/Actions.pm:
23:36 dalek rakudo/nom: Dispatch by sigil.
23:36 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/f670236541
23:41 dalek rakudo/nom: d6c905b | jonathan++ | / (2 files):
23:41 dalek rakudo/nom: Fix &infix:<cmp> proto.
23:42 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/d6c905b0ae
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