Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #parrot, 2011-07-21

Parrot | source cross referenced

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:06 whiteknight I can't seem to instal jekyll here, which is annoying
00:07 dalek parrot.github.com: 0704f29 | Whiteknight++ | / (2 files):
00:07 dalek parrot.github.com: quick clearfix hack
00:08 dalek parrot.github.com: review: https://github.com/parrot/parro​t.github.com/commit/0704f29cee
00:11 darbelo_ left #parrot
00:15 dalek parrot.github.com: 0bc8a17 | Whiteknight++ | / (2 files):
00:15 dalek parrot.github.com: aesthetics on the sidebar
00:15 dalek parrot.github.com: review: https://github.com/parrot/parro​t.github.com/commit/0bc8a171b0
00:15 dalek parrot.github.com: 9113f35 | Whiteknight++ | / (2 files):
00:15 dalek parrot.github.com: fix sidebar list
00:15 dalek parrot.github.com: review: https://github.com/parrot/parro​t.github.com/commit/9113f35021
00:16 cotto_work aloha: clock?
00:16 aloha cotto_work: LAX: Wed, 17:16 PDT / CHI: Wed, 19:16 CDT / NYC: Wed, 20:16 EDT / UTC: Thu, 00:16 UTC / LON: Thu, 01:16 BST / BER: Thu, 02:16 CEST / TOK: Thu, 09:16 JST / SYD: Thu, 10:16 EST
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00:20 dalek plumage/gh-pages: 8d70f49 | Whiteknight++ | index.html:
00:20 dalek plumage/gh-pages: github generated gh-pages branch
00:20 dalek plumage/gh-pages: review: https://github.com/parrot/​plumage/commit/8d70f49bbe
00:23 whiteknight okay, the auto-generated plumage website is officially the ugliest thing ever
00:23 whiteknight ever
00:25 dukeleto http://parrot.github.com/plumage/ eek!
00:26 whiteknight check out the main page
00:26 whiteknight I done prettied it up
00:28 Coke ow.
00:28 Coke that color is a hate crime on my eyes.
00:28 Coke (the support email is at patrick's domain??)
00:28 cotto_work Um, no.  It's ugly, but you clearly haven't seen Yvette's Bridal'
00:33 whiteknight Coke: that's the contact email for the parrot org on github
00:33 whiteknight I think patrick set it up originally
00:33 dalek plumage/gh-pages: 892e626 | Whiteknight++ | index.html:
00:33 dalek plumage/gh-pages: Remove email address
00:33 dalek plumage/gh-pages: review: https://github.com/parrot/​plumage/commit/892e6265ff
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01:01 whiteknight anybody else can feel free to jump in and embetter the site too
01:02 soh_cah_toa what site?
01:02 whiteknight parrot.github.com/plumage
01:03 whiteknight look deeply into it, until your eyes melt
01:03 soh_cah_toa agh!
01:03 Felipe ouch
01:06 Felipe the command part needs some <br/>
01:10 dalek plumage/gh-pages: 82fe14b | soh_cah_toa++ | index.html:
01:10 dalek plumage/gh-pages: Wrapped "Install" section in <pre> tags so it's rendered as code.
01:10 dalek plumage/gh-pages: review: https://github.com/parrot/​plumage/commit/82fe14bbf5
01:10 Felipe yeah, <pre> is fine too
01:12 dalek parrot.github.com: 1b6830f | Whiteknight++ | pages/ (2 files):
01:12 dalek parrot.github.com: +add quick stub pages for projects and compilers
01:12 dalek parrot.github.com: review: https://github.com/parrot/parro​t.github.com/commit/1b6830ff06
01:14 dalek parrot.github.com: ab7ef33 | Whiteknight++ | stylesheets/parrot.css:
01:14 dalek parrot.github.com: fix heading sizes
01:14 dalek parrot.github.com: review: https://github.com/parrot/parro​t.github.com/commit/ab7ef33d9a
01:14 dalek parrot.github.com: 8a795da | Whiteknight++ | _layouts/site.html:
01:14 dalek parrot.github.com: Add links to projects and compilers pages
01:14 dalek parrot.github.com: review: https://github.com/parrot/parro​t.github.com/commit/8a795dae60
01:16 dalek plumage/gh-pages: bac2179 | soh_cah_toa++ | index.html:
01:16 dalek plumage/gh-pages: Added a link to the Plumage wiki.
01:16 dalek plumage/gh-pages: review: https://github.com/parrot/​plumage/commit/bac2179594
01:16 soh_cah_toa agh, messed it up
01:17 whiteknight :)
01:17 whiteknight don't worry about it, we're all experimenting
01:17 whiteknight just play
01:17 soh_cah_toa i got it
01:18 dalek plumage/gh-pages: 6fbb847 | soh_cah_toa++ | index.html:
01:18 dalek plumage/gh-pages: Fixed <pre> tag from previous commit so that paragraph isn't rendered as code.
01:18 dalek plumage/gh-pages: review: https://github.com/parrot/​plumage/commit/6fbb84744a
01:19 soh_cah_toa i'm thinking about giving our wiki a new look too
01:19 soh_cah_toa right now, it's just one long list
01:23 cotto_work who's skids?
01:23 dalek parrot.github.com: 9f36db0 | Whiteknight++ | stylesheets/parrot.css:
01:23 dalek parrot.github.com: indent headings to set them apart
01:23 dalek parrot.github.com: review: https://github.com/parrot/parro​t.github.com/commit/9f36db0e08
01:23 dalek parrot.github.com: eab3027 | Whiteknight++ | pages/compilers.md:
01:23 dalek parrot.github.com: +descriptions of various compilers
01:24 dalek parrot.github.com: review: https://github.com/parrot/parro​t.github.com/commit/eab3027486
01:24 dalek parrot.github.com: 0108408 | Whiteknight++ | pages/projects.md:
01:24 dalek parrot.github.com: +descriptions and attribution for projects)
01:24 dalek parrot.github.com: review: https://github.com/parrot/parro​t.github.com/commit/0108408394
01:24 whiteknight skids?
01:24 cotto_work He left a nice comment on something I posted on my blog about implementing M0 in Perl.
01:25 dalek parrot.github.com: ee8d68b | Whiteknight++ | _layouts/site.html:
01:25 dalek parrot.github.com: fix main header
01:25 dalek parrot.github.com: review: https://github.com/parrot/parro​t.github.com/commit/ee8d68b724
01:25 cotto_work I'm discovering that a substantial part of what I use gists for is better done by blogging.
01:26 whiteknight I use gists a lot to jot down ideas for blog posts, then I forget to publish them
01:28 soh_cah_toa hmm...something is wrong. slavorg and slavorgn are not ops anymore which explains why i'm not op status anymore. whiteknight and some others too
01:28 soh_cah_toa maybe it happened b/c of that netsplit recently
01:28 cotto_work opbots, names
01:28 whiteknight oh, failz
01:28 cotto_work ophumans, names
01:28 whiteknight I'm not ops either
01:29 whiteknight cotto is, but cotto is at work
01:29 whiteknight oh, cotto_work is too
01:29 cotto_work all better
01:29 soh_cah_toa all better
01:29 soh_cah_toa ha!
01:29 cotto_work My client says I won.
01:29 Felipe :p
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01:32 atrodo whiteknight-- # For making such ugly that demands that I do something about it
01:38 atrodo whiteknight: first, we need to change that color
01:38 atrodo Then we need to add unicorns
01:38 whiteknight atrodo: patches welcome!
01:39 atrodo Unless parrot wants to adopt another mythical creature, but that seems silly
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01:42 whiteknight yeah, parrots are mythical enough
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01:53 dalek parrot: 748ed5e | soh_cah_toa++ | t/dynpmc/os.t:
01:53 dalek parrot: Fixed output regular expression for chroot test in t/dynpmc/os.t so that it passes on OpenBSD.
01:53 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/748ed5ee14
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02:42 soh_cah_toa dukeleto: ping
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03:42 Util Working on TT#1891 (Problems with acosh, asech, atanh and acoth in Complex PMC) - FYI
03:49 * Coke wonders if parrot really needs a complex pmc.
04:04 cotto ~~
04:15 Util FWIW, working on Parrot's Complex PMC is turning up bugs in Perl 5's Math::Complex and Math::Cephes::Complex
04:15 cotto ...
04:16 cotto <3
04:16 cotto util++
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04:17 Coke well fine, then. ;)
04:30 dalek tracwiki: v4 | soh_cah_toa++ | GettingStartedWithPlumage
04:30 dalek tracwiki: Fixed a few grammar mistakes in the opening paragraph.
04:30 dalek tracwiki: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/wiki/GettingS​tartedWithPlumage?version=4&amp;action=diff
04:34 dalek plumage/gh-pages: d6b53a8 | soh_cah_toa++ | index.html:
04:34 dalek plumage/gh-pages: Rewrote first paragraph so that it matches the description in the wiki.
04:34 dalek plumage/gh-pages: review: https://github.com/parrot/​plumage/commit/d6b53a86c9
04:42 dalek plumage/gh-pages: 52669c0 | soh_cah_toa++ | index.html:
04:42 dalek plumage/gh-pages: Added instructions on how to clone the repo. Also changed the commands for installing to 'parrot' instead of 'parrot-nqp'.
04:42 dalek plumage/gh-pages: review: https://github.com/parrot/​plumage/commit/52669c0890
04:44 dalek plumage/gh-pages: f303a9b | soh_cah_toa++ | index.html:
04:44 dalek plumage/gh-pages: Changed 'setup.nqp' to 'setup.pir' in "Install" section.
04:44 dalek plumage/gh-pages: review: https://github.com/parrot/​plumage/commit/f303a9b3c5
04:45 dalek parrot/soh-cah-toa/hbdb: d98b9ec | soh_cah_toa++ | src/runcore/cores.c:
04:45 dalek parrot/soh-cah-toa/hbdb: Vertically aligned assignments in Parrot_runcore_hbdb_init().
04:45 dalek parrot/soh-cah-toa/hbdb: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/d98b9ec82e
04:45 dalek parrot/soh-cah-toa/hbdb: a2b156b | soh_cah_toa++ | src/runcore/cores.c:
04:45 dalek parrot/soh-cah-toa/hbdb: Made the perldoc for runops_hbdb_core() a little more verbose.
04:45 dalek parrot/soh-cah-toa/hbdb: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/a2b156b1bd
04:45 dalek parrot/soh-cah-toa/hbdb: 729682a | soh_cah_toa++ | lib/Parrot/Test/HBDB.pm:
04:45 dalek parrot/soh-cah-toa/hbdb: Changed Parrot::Test::HBDB to be a subclass of Test::Builder::Module so that it really acts as a testing library.
04:45 dalek parrot/soh-cah-toa/hbdb: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/729682a5c3
04:45 dalek parrot/soh-cah-toa/hbdb: ed0a12f | soh_cah_toa++ | lib/Parrot/Test/HBDB.pm:
04:45 dalek parrot/soh-cah-toa/hbdb: Heavily commented lib/Parrot/Test/HBDB.pm for the sake of future readers.
04:45 dalek parrot/soh-cah-toa/hbdb: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/ed0a12f539
04:47 soh_cah_toa msg dukeleto i was able to fix the t/dynpmc/os.t test (commit 748ed5e) but how do you think i should fix the two in t/src/extend_vtable.t?
04:47 aloha OK. I'll deliver the message.
04:47 soh_cah_toa msg dukeleto if Parrot_PMC_get_pointer() returns null only on openbsd, should i just do something like: unless $openbsd { normal test } else { same thing except expect null } ?
04:47 aloha OK. I'll deliver the message.
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04:59 soh_cah_toa msg whiteknight is there any reason the source files for plumage are in the gh-pages branch? this branch doesn't really seem like the place for them unless they serve some hidden purpose i can't think of
05:00 aloha OK. I'll deliver the message.
05:03 * Util sleeps
05:05 dalek plumage/gh-pages: cfb2bd4 | soh_cah_toa++ | .gitignore:
05:05 dalek plumage/gh-pages: Added .gitignore file.
05:05 dalek plumage/gh-pages: review: https://github.com/parrot/​plumage/commit/cfb2bd4877
05:05 cotto oh noes!  commits!
05:06 soh_cah_toa yup
05:07 dukeleto soh_cah_toa: no, there is a bug in get_pointer on openbsd. Not running the test on openbsd doesn't solve the problem, just sweeps it under the rug
05:08 soh_cah_toa dukeleto: i wasn't proposing to not run the test, just run the same thing as non-bsd except check for null instead of > 0
05:09 soh_cah_toa but if it's a bug in get_pointer then i guess that's not the right route
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05:13 dukeleto soh_cah_toa: perhaps the test is wrong. I am tweaking it
05:13 cotto That carpet's going to get pretty lumpy.
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05:29 dalek plumage/gh-pages: a206081 | soh_cah_toa++ | / (4 files):
05:29 dalek plumage/gh-pages: Moved CSS code to an external file and linked it from index.html. Also started using Jekyll templates.
05:29 dalek plumage/gh-pages: review: https://github.com/parrot/​plumage/commit/a206081cd1
05:30 soh_cah_toa whoops
05:35 dalek plumage/gh-pages: 0d8e247 | soh_cah_toa++ | / (2 files):
05:35 dalek plumage/gh-pages: Let's see if this fixes the stylesheet error in the last commit.
05:35 dalek plumage/gh-pages: review: https://github.com/parrot/​plumage/commit/0d8e2478e2
05:41 dalek plumage/gh-pages: 9f35e9c | soh_cah_toa++ | / (3 files):
05:41 dalek plumage/gh-pages: Moved CSS code back into index.html because GitHub is stupid.
05:41 dalek plumage/gh-pages: review: https://github.com/parrot/​plumage/commit/9f35e9cd30
05:44 cotto soh_cah_toa, https://github.com/parrot/parrot/c​ommit/ed0a12f53954319376274c95b84e​876c97b83e3d#commitcomment-488495
05:45 soh_cah_toa cotto: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/c​ommit/ed0a12f53954319376274c95b84e​876c97b83e3d#commitcomment-488498
05:45 cotto touche
05:46 cotto If someone removes all the code, you're in trouble. ;)
05:47 soh_cah_toa yeah but i mean if they don't understand what a function does or something (pretty much all of parrot's c code). those i suppose it's easy to figure out what _close_fh() does
05:47 soh_cah_toa *though
05:48 cotto I assume that anyone who reads the comments can read the code that goes along with them, barring unusual code.
05:49 soh_cah_toa not necessarily, much of my frustration is b/c of thousands of uncommented function/macros in parrot code. i admit, i took my own guidelines way overboard
05:50 cotto Don't react to one extreme by moving to the other.
05:50 cotto I agree it's lta.
05:51 soh_cah_toa actually, looking through this, there's more comments than actual code. not cool
05:52 * cotto smells a learning experience
05:53 soh_cah_toa no, that's my litter boxes that need to be cleaned
05:53 cotto better take care of that then
05:55 dalek parrot/soh-cah-toa/hbdb: c82e793 | soh_cah_toa++ | lib/Parrot/Test/HBDB.pm:
05:55 dalek parrot/soh-cah-toa/hbdb: Removed comments that were practically hiding the code.
05:55 dalek parrot/soh-cah-toa/hbdb: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/c82e793e16
05:56 dalek parrot/soh-cah-toa/hbdb: 0b1cea1 | soh_cah_toa++ | lib/Parrot/Test/HBDB.pm:
05:56 dalek parrot/soh-cah-toa/hbdb: Fixed typo in lib/Parrot/Test/HBDB.pm.
05:56 dalek parrot/soh-cah-toa/hbdb: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/0b1cea1434
05:58 dalek parrot: 3078cc6 | dukeleto++ | t/src/extend_vtable.t:
05:58 dalek parrot: [t][src] Refactor get_pointer test to have a more useful failure message
05:58 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/3078cc6d18
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06:20 dalek plumage/gh-pages: 32c1d09 | soh_cah_toa++ | index.html:
06:20 dalek plumage/gh-pages: Trying a different color scheme.
06:20 dalek plumage/gh-pages: review: https://github.com/parrot/​plumage/commit/32c1d09770
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06:25 dalek plumage/gh-pages: d2952a0 | soh_cah_toa++ | index.html:
06:25 dalek plumage/gh-pages: Added link to Parrot repo in "Dependencies" section.
06:25 dalek plumage/gh-pages: review: https://github.com/parrot/​plumage/commit/d2952a05fe
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06:26 soh_cah_toa enough of that...
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06:55 dalek rakudo/nom: ddf95b3 | moritz++ | src/Perl6/Actions.pm:
06:55 dalek rakudo/nom: move detection of indirect name lookups into a method, and check for it in sigiled variables
06:55 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/ddf95b3d27
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08:00 cotto dukeleto, you around?
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08:42 dalek parrot/m0-prototype: 77f1ba6 | cotto++ | src/m0/perl5/m0_assembler.pl:
08:42 dalek parrot/m0-prototype: better debugging messages, bugfix in constant serialization
08:42 dalek parrot/m0-prototype: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/77f1ba6fe1
08:42 dalek parrot/m0-prototype: da4e0cb | cotto++ | src/m0/perl5/m0_ (2 files):
08:42 dalek parrot/m0-prototype: start to implement full-on C int semantics in M0
08:42 dalek parrot/m0-prototype:
08:42 dalek parrot/m0-prototype: I tried to limit the hackiness and make it readable, but the concept of
08:42 dalek parrot/m0-prototype: implementing low-level semantics in Perl implies a certain amount of
08:42 dalek parrot/m0-prototype: hackery.  A basic test to add two ints and print the result works,
08:42 dalek parrot/m0-prototype: but anything more complex fails.
08:42 dalek parrot/m0-prototype: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/da4e0cb765
08:42 dalek parrot/m0-prototype: 588ca65 | cotto++ | src/m0/perl5/m0_ (2 files):
08:42 dalek parrot/m0-prototype: add a note about how to fix the assembler and some temporary debugging code
08:42 dalek parrot/m0-prototype: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/588ca65fdc
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09:16 NotFound zampor&
09:16 NotFound Ups
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12:03 kid51 msg whiteknight parrot-dev mail is slow; have filed ticket; please see http://lists.parrot.org/pipermail​/parrot-dev/2011-July/006071.html
12:03 aloha OK. I'll deliver the message.
12:08 Felipe morning devs.
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12:48 whiteknight good morning, #parrot
12:49 whiteknight msg soh_cah_toa the source files shouldn't be there. I won't remove anything that isn't tracked.
12:49 aloha OK. I'll deliver the message.
13:04 smash joined #parrot
13:04 smash hello everyone
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13:07 whiteknight good morning, smash. How are you doing today?
13:07 smash whiteknight: fine thank you, and you?
13:08 whiteknight pretty well, thanks. Been hacking on anything cool?
13:08 smash whiteknight: nothing fancy or interesting, currently hacking on my pre-thesis
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13:09 whiteknight pre-thesis? What's your topic?
13:10 smash whiteknight: the title is An Ontology Toolkit for Problem Domain Concept Location in Program
13:10 smash Comprehension
13:10 Felipe morning
13:11 moritz no offense meant, but that does sound like bs bingo to me, without further explanation :-)
13:12 smash moritz: non taken
13:12 smash it's just a title
13:13 moritz I guess most thesis titles are rather meaningless to somebody outside the specific field
13:14 smash i agree
13:15 * moritz has/had "fun" explaining two thesis titles to friends and family
13:20 dalek rakudo: 495578b | moritz++ | build/PARROT_REVISION:
13:20 dalek rakudo: bump parrot version to 3.6
13:20 dalek rakudo: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/495578b001
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13:24 dalek rakudo: 1ebab75 | moritz++ | docs/ChangeLog:
13:24 dalek rakudo: changelog
13:24 dalek rakudo: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/1ebab75f6a
13:29 whiteknight smash: Can you explain that at all?
13:29 whiteknight it sounds decidedly abstract
13:34 smash whiteknight: its' abou tways to enhance current program comprehension techniques by linking the problem domain with the source code and produced world effects using ontologies
13:37 Coke smash:O_o;
13:38 Coke ... that sounds like fancy talk for "use 4gls"
13:38 Coke or DSLs, as I've also heard them called.
13:42 * smash nods.
13:45 Coke \o/
13:46 Coke ISTR chromatic has written some screed on that on his modern perl blog; might be worth adding to the pile of reading material.
13:52 dalek rakudo: 53a9da1 | moritz++ | docs/announce/2011.07:
13:52 dalek rakudo: initial release announcement
13:52 dalek rakudo: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/53a9da11d8
13:52 smash Coke: yeap, i recall something
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14:40 dalek rakudo: a73d73c | moritz++ | docs/announce/2011.07:
14:40 dalek rakudo: name our release Beijing
14:40 dalek rakudo: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/a73d73c841
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14:57 benabik So I now have a duel-booting Lion/Win7 laptop… but I forgot that Fink is slow to update for new OSes and now I have to find another way to get dependencies for git/parrot/etc
15:06 dalek rakudo: cc373ff | moritz++ | / (2 files):
15:06 dalek rakudo: update release_guide.pod, bump VERSION
15:06 dalek rakudo: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/cc373ffa96
15:06 dalek rakudo: 085a4b7 | moritz++ | build/Makefile.in:
15:06 dalek rakudo: make spectest_update nonfatal, it fails in the release (because t/spec/ is not a git checkout)
15:06 dalek rakudo: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/085a4b7aad
15:07 dalek winxed: b6437a3 | NotFound++ | winxedst1.winxed:
15:07 dalek winxed: refactor builtin creation avoiding intermediate storages
15:07 dalek winxed: review: https://github.com/NotFoun​d/winxed/commit/b6437a3170
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15:47 Coke if I'm using git svn, and I have local branches tracking remote branches,
15:47 Coke and I want to do some local branch merging, do I need to do anything special,
15:47 Coke or can I just use "git merge" locally happily and do a 'git svn dcommit' once
15:47 Coke I'm satisfied?
15:55 JimmyZ well, I don't like git svn too much, because I can't commit to svn, and my git commits always on head
15:55 benabik Coke: I don't remember how git-svn handles committing merges.  It used to be that it didn't go too well, but that may have gotten better.
16:11 dalek rakudo: 61eef48 | pmichaud++ | docs/announce/2011.07:
16:11 dalek rakudo: Revise release announcement a bit.
16:11 dalek rakudo: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/61eef48e90
16:15 Coke I did a "git commit" on master, git checkout of branch, git merge --no-ff master, git svn dcommit, and it worked pretty much like I wanted. (like having individual commits from trunk on the branch, rather than a mess of "merge latest changes from trunk" commit.
16:16 benabik git-svn has been getting smarter.
16:16 Coke much less painful than last I used it. probably 1/3 git-svn, 2/3 me using git for a year.
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16:16 benabik Although I kinda wish it would be integrated into the new vcs-helper framework…  But that would mean updating it to use fast-import, which is non-trivial.
16:17 benabik Huh.  '...' is becoming '…' automatically now
16:17 JimmyZ left #parrot
16:17 whiteknight where?
16:17 benabik I think it's OS level in Lion.
16:17 Coke hurm. I wonder if I wanted --ff or --no-ff there.
16:18 benabik --no-ff mean "I always want a merge commit"
16:19 Coke ah, so I really wanted --ff. whoops.
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16:19 rurban_ is now known as rurban
16:22 dalek rakudo: 9225003 | pmichaud++ | docs/release_guide.pod:
16:22 dalek rakudo: Add some release name suggestions for future releases.
16:22 dalek rakudo: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/9225003fe4
16:30 cotto ~~
16:32 whiteknight hello cotto
16:39 cotto It is a good day for pie.
16:49 Coke Perhaps today IS a good day to PIE! <worf/>
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17:01 benabik errands &
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17:16 cotto_work ~~
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17:46 RobertLJ questin: where do I submit parrot build problems ?  have been attempting to build parrot 3.6.0 on Windows 7 using straberry perl.
17:47 whiteknight RobertLJ: Here is good. You can send an email to parrot-users or parrot-dev mailinglists, or you can open a ticket on trac.parrot.org
17:47 whiteknight RobertLJ: are you on 64-bit or 32-bit windows?
17:51 RobertLJ 64 bit .. and i am using the 32 bit strawberry perl installation
17:51 RobertLJ 64 bit windows 7 that is
17:52 whiteknight okay
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18:25 RobertLJ thanks whiteknight  .. i think i may have some more info about the problem .. I will do some more testing before I send an email to the parrot-user list
18:28 whiteknight RobertLJ: okay, awesome.
18:28 whiteknight I've got windows here, but I've got MSVC, not strawberry
18:30 cotto_work strawberry and msvc aren't mutually exclusive
18:30 whiteknight cotto_work: I already have one, and am not installing another
18:31 cotto_work your call
18:31 whiteknight I already have activeperl on here. Installing strawberry on the same machine has never been a pleasant experience
18:32 whiteknight maybe it's gotten better, I don't know
18:32 cotto_work gotcha
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18:44 RobertLJ what dev environment is used to build parrot windows ?
18:44 cotto_work RobertLJ: I use strawberry/msvc and strawberry/mingw
19:00 RobertLJ ok .. just wanted to make sure I was compiling parrot with the right dev envirnment
19:02 dukeleto we have lots of broken links and wrong statements on our wikipedia page
19:08 dalek website: lucian++ | Delays ...
19:08 dalek website: http://www.parrot.org/content/delays-...
19:10 dukeleto lucian: can you make that image a tiny bit smaller ? it is 3,375px × 2,239px, which is unreasonable
19:12 dukeleto lucian: i do like the picture, though :)
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19:17 lucian dukeleto: oh. i just tried to make it 800k
19:17 whiteknight lucian++ It's good to see you blogging again!
19:18 lucian doesn't it get sized to 700-ish pixels on parrot.org? it does on wordpress
19:18 dukeleto lucian: our drupal is dumb
19:18 whiteknight lucian: also, I'd love to hear your feedback for Rosella.Test if you have time. I don't want it to be giving anybody problems
19:19 dukeleto lucian: there are some tough critiques in your blog post, but I think we need to hear them
19:19 lucian whiteknight: it's ok, distutils is the problem
19:19 whiteknight I've wanted to rewrite distutils for a long time now
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19:20 lucian dukeleto: it's easy to remember what's annoying
19:21 dukeleto lucian: for a non-trivial setup.winxed, bubaflub++'s parrot-gmp might help you: https://github.com/bubaflub/parr​ot-gmp/blob/master/setup.winxed
19:21 lucian dukeleto: yeah, i've used his for inspiration already :)
19:26 whiteknight There is supposed to be some kind of way to specify what test harness program to use, and what arguments to pass it, but I never quite figured that out
19:26 whiteknight the Rosella and PLA setup scripts detect when the first argument is "test" and executes the harness manually
19:27 whiteknight the downside is that when we test, it doesn't build first. I need to work on that
19:28 whiteknight the problem with rewriting distutils is that I will probably rewrite it as part of Rosella, but Rosella is the project I most want the improvements for
19:29 whiteknight bootstrapping is a bitch
19:29 dukeleto what are the actual biggest problems with our distutils, currently?
19:29 whiteknight I don't want to say "problems". It's well-written and very useful
19:30 whiteknight it's all written in PIR, all in one big file, and it's not nearly flexible enough
19:30 whiteknight plus it's missing things like building NCI thunk libs, or easily compiling things from other languages
19:31 whiteknight Rosella provides a wrapper library for distutils that adds winxed support, but having to do that for every language we want to build could become expensive
19:31 whiteknight it also doesn't do anything to detect prerequisites. Integration with plumage would be awesome in that regard
19:32 whiteknight In fact, a merger of the two, in a hypothetical rewrite that I was already told not to do, would be awesome
19:33 whiteknight lucian: I am glad to see you are on the 6model bandwagon now. I'm really looking forward to getting it moved into core and helping update puffin to use it
19:34 whiteknight won't be done before the end of the summer probably, unless it all goes *much* easier than I expect
19:34 lucian dukeleto: i think it just doesn't do enough
19:34 lucian whiteknight: well, after john put some docs up and explained what was going on, it made sense
19:35 whiteknight I think what I want to do with rosella is put together a library for building and traversing a DAG. Then we can use that to build and traverse dependency graphs
19:36 whiteknight If we have a library that does that, all we need is an interface to add data to the DAG, a loop, and a collection of builder objects to take each node and do something with it
19:38 whiteknight plumage is the same. Put together dependencies in a DAG, then traverse it. Any Make clone would be the same
19:40 whiteknight Right now, distutils does everything in waves. It does all the pbc_pir compilations first, then the pbc_pbc merges, etc
19:41 whiteknight so if you have to add new steps to it, you need to know the ordering of the stage as a whole
19:45 whiteknight could probably use that as the basis for an expert system library too, but I don't feel like getting into a Rete algorithm nonsens
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19:54 cotto_work A good first step for distutils would be to break it into multiple files.  That'd hardly even be a rewrite. ;)
19:55 NotFound whiteknight: a minor problem in distutils: no way no specify a path for an include file different than the installed destination.
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19:58 whiteknight I don't want to change distutils too much as it is, because a lot of projects rely on it
19:58 whiteknight and it does work. No questions there. It works very well for the projects that are using it
19:59 whiteknight Getting something that works well for other projects as well is the big trick
20:00 NotFound The problem is its lack of tests, is har to add something without risk of breaking something.
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20:02 whiteknight ah, that's a good point. Either increasing test coverage, or increasing base testability would be a good step
20:04 NotFound But for testing we may need a way to specify an alternate install path.
20:05 NotFound Now that I think about it... we can use it to install some of the core libraries
20:15 cotto_work lack of tests is one of its biggest problems
20:15 cotto_work that and the fact that it's one gigantic PIR file
20:18 NotFound The simpler way to reduce its size can be rewriting it in winxed.
20:18 whiteknight yeah, I wouldn't write anything in PIR now
20:18 whiteknight nobody should
20:18 whiteknight and if we're going to do it in winxed, using namespaces and proper OO guts is a no-brainer
20:19 NotFound Ms
20:19 whiteknight ?
20:20 NotFound Most of its length are long string concatnations and array initializations that in winxed will become one line.
20:20 whiteknight yeah
20:21 NotFound PIR is an assembler, after all, is not appropiate for that things.
20:21 whiteknight s/that things/any thing/
20:22 whiteknight s/an assembler/a piece of crap/
20:22 whiteknight s/after all/kill it now/
20:24 cotto_work s/PIR/PIR/
20:25 whiteknight aloha: PIR is a piece of crap, kill it now, is not appropriate for anything
20:25 aloha whiteknight: ... but PIR is just pasm with a lot of sugar ...
20:26 whiteknight damnit
20:26 whiteknight aloha PIR is also a piece of crap, kill it now, is not appropriate for anything
20:26 aloha whiteknight: Okay.
20:26 whiteknight botsnack
20:26 whiteknight alohaP: botsnack
20:26 whiteknight >:(
20:26 whiteknight aloha: botsnack
20:26 whiteknight damnit
20:26 whiteknight I hate bots
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20:52 soh_cah_toa ~~
20:52 tadzik ~~
21:02 Felipe ~~
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21:40 dalek plumage/gh-pages: a16fd14 | soh_cah_toa++ | index.html:
21:40 dalek plumage/gh-pages: Moved "Download" section to be right before the "Install" section. This makes more sense since you download Plumage before you install it.
21:40 dalek plumage/gh-pages: review: https://github.com/parrot/​plumage/commit/a16fd14ff1
21:40 dalek plumage/gh-pages: a6178eb | soh_cah_toa++ | / (2 files):
21:40 dalek plumage/gh-pages: Modified layout to make use of Jekyll templates. Also changed footer to use new HTML 5 <footer> tag instead of a <div>.
21:40 dalek plumage/gh-pages: review: https://github.com/parrot/​plumage/commit/a6178ebbff
21:40 dalek plumage/gh-pages: 00eaf0f | soh_cah_toa++ | / (2 files):
21:40 dalek plumage/gh-pages: Made source code a little more clean and organized.
21:40 dalek plumage/gh-pages: review: https://github.com/parrot/​plumage/commit/00eaf0fbfd
21:40 dalek plumage/gh-pages: 2fac907 | soh_cah_toa++ | index.html:
21:40 dalek plumage/gh-pages: Removed "Contact" section because contacting "Parrot Virtual Machine" makes no sense and it's also redundant to list it along with the "Authors" section.
21:40 dalek plumage/gh-pages: review: https://github.com/parrot/​plumage/commit/2fac907982
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21:53 dalek plumage/gh-pages: 7437336 | soh_cah_toa++ | / (2 files):
21:53 dalek plumage/gh-pages: Refactored some more code into the "default" layout to reduce duplication in future pages.
21:53 dalek plumage/gh-pages: review: https://github.com/parrot/​plumage/commit/7437336220
21:53 dalek plumage/gh-pages: 44504ff | soh_cah_toa++ | index.html:
21:53 dalek plumage/gh-pages: Made "Authors" section into an undordered list so things are a little nicer looking.
21:53 dalek plumage/gh-pages: review: https://github.com/parrot/​plumage/commit/44504ff7ee
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21:56 whiteknight heh, that page is starting to look half-nice
21:56 whiteknight soh_cah_toa++
21:56 soh_cah_toa yeah, it's not too bad :)
21:56 Felipe good
22:17 dalek plumage/gh-pages: 81af96c | soh_cah_toa++ | index.html:
22:17 dalek plumage/gh-pages: Added a "Usage" section explaining how to get started using Plumage.
22:17 dalek plumage/gh-pages: review: https://github.com/parrot/​plumage/commit/81af96c26c
22:38 cotto_work kid51++ got himself quoted on LWN's weekly edition: http://lwn.net/Articles/452091/
22:39 Felipe haha nice
22:39 cotto_work right below jwz and Rasmus, though I wouldn't read too much into that
22:40 cotto_work msg kid51 You have some takers: http://lwn.net/Articles/452177
22:40 aloha OK. I'll deliver the message.
22:41 rblackwe I say that too.  Go kid51
22:41 rblackwe I should take him something nice to FOSSCON.
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22:59 dalek plumage/gh-pages: 0e9f513 | soh_cah_toa++ | .gitignore:
22:59 dalek plumage/gh-pages: Removed entries for source files in .gitignore since they're no longer in the repo.
22:59 dalek plumage/gh-pages: review: https://github.com/parrot/​plumage/commit/0e9f513576
23:05 dalek website: tcurtis++ | GSoC: LALR Parsing: Midterms over!
23:05 dalek website: http://www.parrot.org/content/g​soc-lalr-parsing-midterms-over
23:43 dalek parrot/Util/tt_1891_complex_trig: 6e2c0cf | util++ | src/pmc/complex.pmc:
23:43 dalek parrot/Util/tt_1891_complex_trig: [TT#1891] Fix calculation of acosh in complex.pmc
23:43 dalek parrot/Util/tt_1891_complex_trig: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/6e2c0cf612
23:43 dalek parrot/Util/tt_1891_complex_trig: 4900212 | util++ | t/pmc/complex.t:
23:43 dalek parrot/Util/tt_1891_complex_trig: [TT#1891] Restore TODOed tests that now pass
23:43 dalek parrot/Util/tt_1891_complex_trig: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/4900212a09
23:43 dalek parrot/Util/tt_1891_complex_trig: 4e505d1 | util++ | t/pmc/complex.t:
23:43 dalek parrot/Util/tt_1891_complex_trig: [TT#1891] Correct a bad test value
23:43 dalek parrot/Util/tt_1891_complex_trig: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/4e505d102f
23:48 whiteknight util++
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