Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #parrot, 2011-07-27

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Time Nick Message
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00:11 dalek parrot: 930fa0f | Felipe++ | / (8 files):
00:11 dalek parrot: Merge remote-tracking branch 'upstream/master' into imcc_error_message
00:11 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/930fa0f7ea
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00:23 dalek TT #2158 closed by Felipe++: Appending error messages to IMCC error_message
00:23 dalek TT #2158: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/2158
00:25 * kid51 questions the wisdom of this commit:
00:25 kid51 git show 66e6aee5d8
00:26 kid51 On at least one platform I use, --optimize build does not completely pass 'make test'
00:26 kid51 moritz: ping
00:36 kid51 is now known as kid51_at_dinner
00:48 cotto_work kid51_at_dinner: what platform breaks with --optimize?
01:03 Felipe wfm
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01:13 Felipe whiteknight: ping
01:13 whiteknight pong
01:14 Felipe whiteknight: https://github.com/felipensp/parrot/commit​/c282bfca03f1a45f9e0fb5c27b9e32452c50d187 ok to merge? i.e. adding a new function in the current Parrot phase?
01:15 whiteknight Felipe: yes, looks good to me. It builds and passes all tests?
01:16 cotto_work +1
01:16 * cotto_work heads out
01:16 Felipe whiteknight: yes
01:16 whiteknight okay, perfect. Merge it
01:23 Felipe cotto_work: what timezone do you live in? (working late :)
01:28 dalek NQR: dd1feac | (Jay Emerson)++ | / (3 files):
01:28 dalek NQR: Progress on [] operator for assignments (lvalue).
01:28 dalek NQR: review: https://github.com/NQRCore/NQR/commit/dd1feac1de
01:33 dalek parrot: c282bfc | Felipe++ | / (4 files):
01:33 dalek parrot: Merge remote-tracking branch 'origin/mem_sys_strndup'
01:33 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/c282bfca03
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01:42 kid51_at_dinner msg cotto see http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/1930 for consistent test failure of t/op/number.t on darwin/ppc with --optimize
01:42 aloha OK. I'll deliver the message.
01:42 kid51_at_dinner is now known as kid51
01:45 dalek TT #2154 closed by Felipe++: Add mem_sys_strndup() function
01:45 dalek TT #2154: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/2154
01:48 dalek Rosella: c1ccf0c | Whiteknight++ | / (11 files):
01:48 dalek Rosella: Implement utility test_all_lib. Generates test files for all namespaces and classes in a given library. Fix some small bugs in FileSystem to support parent directories better. Improve winxed test templates to generate running code
01:48 dalek Rosella: review: https://github.com/Whiteknig​ht/Rosella/commit/c1ccf0cb84
01:49 moritz kid51: pong
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01:54 kid51 moritz: Please see my post on parrot-dev re change to README
01:55 Coke question: do we support darwin/ppc, given that any system running it has to be over 2 years old?
01:55 Coke or is it just "best effort" at this point?
01:56 kid51 Does it meet our official criterion?  No.  But when tests that have been passing for years start to break, that usually indicates there was something in a commit that we didn't understand.
01:56 kid51 This happened repeatedly during bacek's work on GC
01:57 kid51 We'd get a test failure there, I'd report it, bacek would scrutinize the code and come up with a way to tighten the code up for everybody that had the advantage of making the tests pass once again
01:58 kid51 I actually get more consistent PASS on darwin/ppc than other smoke testers do on darwin/intel
02:05 kid51 And, speaking of darwin, has anyone else read this review of Mac OSX X 10.7 "Lion"?  http://arstechnica.com/apple/rev​iews/2011/07/mac-os-x-10-7.ars/1
02:05 kid51 The "Internals" Subsection is something I think our folks would find interesting
02:12 kid51 Was the whiteknight/packfile_path branch merged?
02:17 kid51 Heh, our current debugger is so useless that ...
02:17 kid51 $ ./parrot_debugger --help
02:17 kid51 Segmentation fault
02:21 Felipe yes, I told you days ago about this, kid51
02:21 kid51 Felipe: I knew people said our debugger was no good.
02:22 kid51 Because of that, I never even attempted it ... until tonight!
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02:24 kid51 Well, to answer my earlier question: yes, packfile_path was merged (or perhaps deleted)
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02:48 Felipe night
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04:21 dalek rakudo/nom: 0b097fd | Coke++ | t/spectest.data:
04:21 dalek rakudo/nom: track error conditions (pass some tests)
04:21 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/0b097fdbef
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05:21 cotto ~~
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05:37 dalek rakudo/nom: ad8d7a6 | pmichaud++ | src/core/terms.pm:
05:37 dalek rakudo/nom: Add %*ENV.
05:37 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/ad8d7a6a17
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05:55 dalek rakudo/nom: 251c5b3 | pmichaud++ | src/ (2 files):
05:55 dalek rakudo/nom: Add run(), qx operator.
05:55 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/251c5b3670
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07:35 dalek parrot/m0-prototype: 83ca83b | cotto++ | src/m0/perl5/m0_ (2 files):
07:35 dalek parrot/m0-prototype: use 'i' with pack/unpack, be more careful about int over/underflow
07:35 dalek parrot/m0-prototype: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/83ca83b855
07:38 dalek parrot/m0-prototype: 51334d4 | cotto++ | src/m0/perl5/m0_interp.pl:
07:38 dalek parrot/m0-prototype: fix thinkographical error, get all of m0_tests passing on x86 and x86_64!
07:38 dalek parrot/m0-prototype: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/51334d4616
07:46 dalek parrot/m0-prototype: 54288e7 | cotto++ | src/m0/perl5/m0_interp.pl:
07:46 dalek parrot/m0-prototype: remove some debugging code
07:46 dalek parrot/m0-prototype: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/54288e7f8b
07:48 dalek plumage: 63d0423 | fperrad++ | setup.pir:
07:48 dalek plumage: install manpage only if newer
07:48 dalek plumage: review: https://github.com/parrot/​plumage/commit/63d0423d15
07:59 dalek rakudo/nom: b45401d | moritz++ | t/spectest.data:
07:59 dalek rakudo/nom: two more passing test files
07:59 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/b45401dab6
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08:07 dalek plumage: e4fc1a0 | fperrad++ | / (3 files):
08:07 dalek plumage: manpage: refactor with the distutils way
08:07 dalek plumage:
08:07 dalek plumage: (don't write code, it's just another file)
08:07 dalek plumage: review: https://github.com/parrot/​plumage/commit/e4fc1a0351
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11:58 dalek rakudo/nom: bb9b16a | kboga++ | src/core/Str.pm:
11:58 dalek rakudo/nom: Remove the now obsolete regex anchors.
11:58 dalek rakudo/nom:
11:58 dalek rakudo/nom: Made possible by commit dc942fb in the nqp repo (pmichaud++).
11:58 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/bb9b16adc1
11:58 dalek rakudo/nom: 163a1f7 | kboga++ | t/spectest.data:
11:58 dalek rakudo/nom: Track error conditions.
11:58 dalek rakudo/nom: Enable S29-conversions/hash.t (passes when run separately)
11:58 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/163a1f7636
11:58 dalek rakudo/nom: b890384 | moritz++ | / (2 files):
11:58 dalek rakudo/nom: Merge pull request #28 from kboga/nom
11:58 dalek rakudo/nom:
11:58 dalek rakudo/nom: Update error conditions, remove workarounds from regexes
11:58 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/b8903844f2
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12:16 dalek rakudo/nom: ab97547 | jonathan++ | src/ (4 files):
12:16 dalek rakudo/nom: Implement coercion for parameters. Goes one step better than master - only coerces if the value isn't already of the correctr type.
12:16 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/ab97547688
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12:29 dalek parrot: 9a88646 | mikehh++ | / (2 files):
12:29 dalek parrot: fix codetest failures - trailing spaces and linelength, update copyright
12:29 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/9a88646018
12:29 dalek parrot: 74d8790 | mikehh++ | src/gc/alloc_memory.c:
12:29 dalek parrot: fix codetest failure - trailing spaces
12:29 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/74d8790a93
12:29 whiteknight good morning, #parrot
12:30 whiteknight jnthn__: ping
12:30 mikehh hi whiteknight
12:30 whiteknight hello mikehh
12:31 jnthn__ whiteknight: pon
12:31 jnthn__ g
12:31 whiteknight jnthn__: I saw you removed the REPR PMC. Are you still planning to remove the STable PMC?
12:31 jnthn__ whiteknight: Yeah.
12:32 whiteknight Do you have any other biggish changes planned for 6model in the next month or so?
12:33 jnthn__ whiteknight: There's a few reasons to do it - one is removing a bunch of indirections from really common operations, but the more pressing one is that the current arrangement has a bad interaction with destruction non-ordering.
12:34 jnthn__ (biggish changes) maybe, but I expect they'll be additive.
12:34 jnthn__ Like, I need to still add the "stuff changed" notifications system so we can maintain the various caches more properly.
12:35 jnthn__ But I need to work out exactly what I want that to look like yet.
12:35 jnthn__ Probably I should take a look at Smalltalk's idea of announcements.
12:36 jnthn__ In terms of big breaking changes though, that's quite unlikely.
12:36 whiteknight okay, I'm very keen to start on the migration of 6model into Parrot core soon. Like, next week maybe
12:36 jnthn__ I'm trying to work towards a point where I can declare a "6model v1" API or something.
12:36 whiteknight Last time I asked you said removing those two PMCs was one change I should wait for
12:37 jnthn__ ah, yeah. I still agree with myself. :)
12:37 jnthn__ I should probably see what killing the STable PMC will take sooner rather than later then.
12:38 jnthn__ Shoudl be easy since we never, ever leak it into userspace.
12:38 whiteknight I've been putting together lists of questions and discussion topics, so one day I'm going to bum-rush you with all that
12:38 jnthn__ bum-rush?!
12:38 jnthn__ o.O
12:38 jnthn__ :)
12:38 whiteknight Knock you down, ask you questions. Maybe take your wallet
12:39 whiteknight just so you know I mean business :)
12:39 * jnthn__ had some friends at highschool who had a band called that, but they were thinking of a rather different meaning :)
12:40 whiteknight I'm going under the assumption that Rakudo is going to want to keep a separate version of 6model around in NQP, for faster bug fixing and turnaround?
12:40 Felipe good morning
12:40 whiteknight or, if we keep 6model "experimental" for a while so it can be tweaked quickly, would you only want there to be a single version of it?
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12:43 moritz whiteknight: the next rakudo releases (based on nom) will target parrot-3.6.0
12:43 moritz so we need our own copy of 6model for about a month at least
12:43 whiteknight moritz: okay
12:44 whiteknight moritz: I'm sure it will take at least a month to perform the migration in a branch. I'm just trying to figure out how much insulation I need to build in
12:44 whiteknight The more I insulate the parrot version from the NQP version, the harder it may be to unify in the future. So I want to know exactly what Rakudo needs, so I can provide exactly that
12:45 whiteknight for instance, if I have to change names of things to prevent collisions, etc
12:46 jnthn__ whiteknight: I really want to work towards something unified.
12:46 jnthn__ But that can come after 6model gets in to Parrot.
12:46 jnthn__ But that's the goal.
12:47 jnthn__ It'd be odd if we can't achieve that, given the 6model core commits to so little.
12:47 whiteknight okay, that is my preference as well, if possible.
12:47 whiteknight We'll keep it marked "experimental" for a long time, so it will be immune from the deprecation policy until everybody is happy with it
12:47 jnthn__ To give you an idea, when I added roles to NQP (up to that point I'd just had classes) I didn't have to add anything to the 6model core.
12:48 jnthn__ (Or change anything.)
12:48 whiteknight I was looking through some object code the other day. We're going to have to rewrite a hell of a lot of stuff, but in the end I think we can squeeze out some performance boosts throughout
12:48 whiteknight which is why I'm so interested in unification, because it brings optimization potential to not have to support a million alternatives
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12:50 jnthn__ Sure. The point is that we try to let people efficiently implement the million alternatives they want on top of a very minimal core that does the right few things.
12:50 whiteknight right
12:51 jnthn__ That's why I tend to describe 6model as a toolkit for building an object system.
12:51 jnthn__ I think the important thing there is that we keep the boundary between the core and the default object system Parrot itself implements on top of it separated out, so the boundary is clear.
12:52 whiteknight our current system didn't have a toolkit. Just some rocks stacked together, with mud between the cracks
12:53 atrodo whiteknight> The beaver dam methodology?
12:53 whiteknight that brings up another good point. I don't know what the object system Parrot builds on top of it as the default is going to look like
12:53 whiteknight I suspect that's something we're going to need to devote some minds to
12:56 whiteknight Probably be more than one. I know Python and JavaScript are going to want a prototype-based system. We'll probably also want a variant that's pretty similar to the one you're using for NQP
12:56 whiteknight we know we want classes and roles, etc
12:58 atrodo Here's a stupid question.  Do we need one base class system that can handle all possibilities, or do we need a well defined way of class interaction?
12:58 whiteknight atrodo: We've always wanted the second, I think. That's what vtables are
12:59 mikehh yes
12:59 moritz atrodo: we need *something* to implement built-in types (like ResizablePMCArray) in
12:59 whiteknight and 6model provides the flexibility to really get the first and avoid creeping sprawl
12:59 moritz so a minimalistic OO system must be there, not "just" compatibility rules
13:00 mikehh we should be able to work most systems on top of 6madel
13:00 whiteknight moritz: whatever Parrot provides will be the default, but will not be a requirement. Any HLL or library should be able to push aside the defaults and build their own on top of 6model
13:00 mikehh 6model
13:01 atrodo moritz> I agree, we need something for internal, but I'm always weary about systems that claim to be able to handle every case, especially when talking about dynamic languages
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13:01 moritz atrodo: be wary of Turing machines then :-)
13:02 atrodo moritz> Sometimes, I do ;)
13:02 mikehh as I see it 6model is the most comprehensive model of that type
13:03 atrodo And then comes the fear that not using the default, large system means difficulties in using another one, mostly when assumptions creep into other parts of the system
13:03 whiteknight The hard part is not putting the code in and having it run. NQP does that now to great effect. The hard part is getting it integrated enough into the system that we can really start to take advantage of it
13:04 dalek NQR: 02982e2 | (Jay Emerson)++ | / (4 files):
13:04 dalek NQR: Added some tests; revised length() to return a ResizableIntegerArray
13:04 dalek NQR: review: https://github.com/NQRCore/NQR/commit/02982e23ad
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13:04 atrodo moritz> But there is a difference between a simple machine model and a complex class systems that no one can agree on
13:04 jay joined #parrot
13:05 moritz I know I know. I see 6model as the Turing Machine of OO features, just a bit friendlier
13:06 whiteknight I see you like "Turing Machine". Want to talk more about that?
13:06 atrodo whiteknight> No, please change topic
13:06 whiteknight I only have one topic. Please rephrase the command
13:07 moritz I've had a fun course on machine models and formal languages
13:07 atrodo whiteknight> Yes, I wish to talk more about Turning Machines
13:07 whiteknight :)
13:08 whiteknight I'm in ur turing machine conversation, bein a Turing Test
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13:10 whiteknight brb
13:10 whiteknight left #parrot
13:11 bubaflub ~
13:11 jay ~
13:22 mikehh t/pmc/packfileview.t FAILs in make corevm/make coretest but passes in make world/make test
13:22 mikehh all other tests PASS (pre/post-config, make corevm/make coretest, smoke (#19091), fulltest) at 3_6_0-74-g74d8790
13:22 mikehh Kubuntu 11.04 amd64 (g++)
13:23 jay Parroters: I'm working on a talk.  I have a slide, "Why develop a language for Parrot?"  I could tell you what I have at the moment, but would be interested in 3-5 bullet points from you all.
13:28 moritz * Parrot provides a compiler toolkit for you
13:28 moritz ... which is desgined for dynamic languages
13:29 moritz * You don't have to reimplement arrays etc. from scratch
13:29 moritz * we collect your garbage
13:29 moritz * active, friendly and helpful community
13:29 moritz EOL
13:30 jay Ooo... I like the garbage one, didn't have that; pretty much had the others!  moritz++
13:31 mikehh jay: bearing in mind the dynamic languages, it is far easier  to build a language on parrot than any other I have found
13:32 mikehh the toolkit provides most of the things you need
13:32 jay is ``dynamic language'' synonymous with ``language interoperability'' ?
13:33 moritz no
13:33 mikehh more as opposed to "static" languages
13:33 moritz "dynamic language" means "a language like Perl, ruby, python, TCL, PHP, JS, ...
13:33 moritz there's no general definition, but one criterion is that types usually aren't checked at compile time
13:34 jay ah, that helps clear up that misunderstanding, thanks.
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13:34 whiteknight hello again, #parrot
13:34 moritz but they are "safe" in that they don't throw null pointer exceptions if you provoke a type mismatch
13:34 mikehh i.e. compile time allocation in "static" languages rather than run time in "dynamic" languages
13:34 Felipe whiteknight: hello
13:34 jay I'm great a provoking type mismatches, I have found.  One of my greatest strengths.
13:35 mikehh jay: of course no language is pure "static" or "dynamic"
13:36 jay mikehh... thanks.  With an audience of statisticians, I think I can avoid additional nuances, though, and will be forgiven
13:37 whiteknight the probability of getting any answer right is not 1.0 anyway. They should understand that
13:39 dalek NQR: 15b0196 | (Jay Emerson)++ | / (2 files):
13:39 dalek NQR: Provide a little more user-guidance on what is supported
13:39 dalek NQR: review: https://github.com/NQRCore/NQR/commit/15b01961d5
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13:54 atrodo whiteknight> ping
13:56 whiteknight pong
13:56 atrodo whiteknight> Not sure if you know this, but I wanted to confirm what I'm seeing
13:56 whiteknight ok?
13:57 atrodo the get_params op lists the registers to unstuff the parameters into, correct?
13:57 whiteknight yes
13:57 whiteknight it takes a signature, I think it's either a String or an RIA, with flags
13:58 whiteknight each flag would contain the register number, register type, and other things (like :slurpy)
13:58 atrodo So it's not magic and imcc is not the only one that knows where the unstuffed registers go?
13:58 whiteknight right
13:59 atrodo excellent.  thanks
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14:13 dalek NQR: 0b0238a | (Jay Emerson)++ | src/nqr/Compiler.pm:
14:13 dalek NQR: Updated startup message
14:13 dalek NQR: review: https://github.com/NQRCore/NQR/commit/0b0238a2f3
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14:25 bubaflub ping dukeleto
14:29 dalek rakudo/nom: 379f437 | Coke++ | t/spectest.data:
14:29 dalek rakudo/nom: track more test failure updates.
14:29 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/379f437d67
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14:47 soh_cah_toa ~~
14:50 dodathome Hello. I'm packaging rakudo for Debian. I need to know where is pbc_disassemble documented (used to be in src/pbc_disassemble.c)
14:50 soh_cah_toa dodathome: i moved it to frontend/pbc_disassemble/main.c
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14:52 dodathome okay. Is there any other doc move since parrot 3.3.0 ? (don't worry if you don't remember)
14:52 soh_cah_toa hmm...none that i can think of
14:53 whiteknight dodathome: I can't think of any
14:53 whiteknight nothing important, certainly
14:53 whiteknight dodathome++
14:53 dodathome ok. I'll try. dpkg-buildpackage will yell if there are others ;-)
14:56 soh_cah_toa whiteknight: ping
15:01 whiteknight pong
15:02 nopaste "soh_cah_toa" at 192.168.1.3 pasted "chmod() function" (12 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/65212
15:02 soh_cah_toa whiteknight: that's for you
15:04 whiteknight soh_cah_toa: Yes, chmod *should* use it
15:04 whiteknight it doesn't, it should
15:04 soh_cah_toa ah
15:04 soh_cah_toa hm, let me see if the chmod() method takes it
15:04 whiteknight print "chmod " + filename + " 0o" + mode, etc
15:04 soh_cah_toa right
15:05 whiteknight probably not. Just jam the logic into osutils.chmod
15:05 soh_cah_toa ok, simple
15:05 whiteknight for a superstar like soh_cah_toa? Yeah, it's simple :)
15:05 soh_cah_toa pff...yeah ;)
15:07 soh_cah_toa which tests should you run after a change like that to the runtime library? before i just used 'fulltest' but i'm hoping maybe there's something a little less...ridiculous
15:10 whiteknight I doubt highly that osutils is tested
15:10 soh_cah_toa wow, really?
15:10 whiteknight also, "make help" should give you a few ideas of teh various make targets
15:11 soh_cah_toa is there a reason there's no tests for it? i'd like to add them if we need it
15:14 dukeleto bubaflub: pong
15:14 bubaflub dukeleto: i'm setting up a jitterbug environment for $dayjob
15:14 dukeleto bubaflub: hootnanny!
15:15 bubaflub dukeleto: huzzahs all around
15:15 dukeleto soh_cah_toa: make pmc_tests
15:16 dukeleto soh_cah_toa: and if osutils.pmc is lacking any related tests, please add some :)
15:16 dukeleto bubaflub: please let me know if you hit rough edges
15:16 soh_cah_toa dukeleto: it's not a pmc though
15:16 soh_cah_toa runtime/parrot/library/osutils.pir
15:16 bubaflub dukeleto: ok.  i'm installing local::lib to handle the dependencies for Jitterbug right now.  i'll let you know how all the setup and what not goes
15:18 dukeleto soh_cah_toa: what are you actually testing?
15:18 dukeleto bubaflub: yes, that is recommended. local::lib will make your life much easier
15:18 soh_cah_toa well nothing yet b/c there aren't any
15:20 soh_cah_toa whiteknight: wait a second, yes there is
15:20 whiteknight ...lolwhere?
15:20 soh_cah_toa just not everything. not nearly everything
15:20 soh_cah_toa t/library/osutils.t
15:21 soh_cah_toa is seriously lacking though. i can improve it some
15:21 whiteknight well I'll be darned
15:21 whiteknight soh_cah_toa++
15:21 soh_cah_toa and also, i've noticed that a lot of the functions w/ optional named arguments check both the 'opt_flag' and also the argument itself. for instance, say that 'verbose' is an int argument and 'has_verbose' is the flag: `unless has_verbose goto L1` then right after `unless verbose goto L1`
15:21 soh_cah_toa isn't this redundant? it's not like one could be set but not the other
15:22 whiteknight Rosella has a global store for holding an OS PMC instance that it reads from. For filesystem-related testing, I can replace that global instance with a custom mock object. Makes testing much much easier.
15:22 whiteknight soh_cah_toa: foo() is different from foo(null)
15:22 soh_cah_toa hmm...
15:22 dukeleto soh_cah_toa: make library_tests
15:23 soh_cah_toa dukeleto: ah, i see
15:24 dalek rakudo/nom: 318767a | pmichaud++ | src/core/GatherIter.pm:
15:24 dalek rakudo/nom: Fix triangle reductions.
15:24 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/318767a9e0
15:24 soh_cah_toa whiteknight: ok i think i get it. testing opt_flag checks to see if it's actually there and then testing the argument itself checks that it has a non-null value
15:24 whiteknight soh_cah_toa: right
15:25 whiteknight or, a value that isn't zero: an empty string, etc
15:25 soh_cah_toa yeah
15:25 whiteknight it's like wearing a belt and suspenders to make sure your pants stay up
15:25 soh_cah_toa that's quite an analogy :)
15:44 dalek plumage: 3485b8a | soh_cah_toa++ | man/man1/plumage.1.gz:
15:44 dalek plumage: Changed URL to Artistic License in manpage so that it's the same URL in plumage.json. The previous URL was just the ASCII version.
15:44 dalek plumage: review: https://github.com/parrot/​plumage/commit/3485b8aa6f
15:44 dalek plumage: 6bb32eb | soh_cah_toa++ | .gitignore:
15:44 dalek plumage: Added tags file to .gitignore.
15:44 dalek plumage: review: https://github.com/parrot/​plumage/commit/6bb32ebdde
15:44 dalek plumage: 7a1baf6 | soh_cah_toa++ | TODO:
15:44 dalek plumage: Removed manpage from TODO list since I already did this.
15:44 dalek plumage: review: https://github.com/parrot/​plumage/commit/7a1baf62c2
15:47 soh_cah_toa left #parrot
16:07 * dukeleto throws his hat into the --optimize circus
16:12 whiteknight we're going to need to hire a person to cleanup all the hats
16:12 soh_cah_toa joined #parrot
16:13 * dukeleto cleans his polka dot sombrero
16:22 jay left #parrot
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16:26 dalek parrot: cb6ec5f | dukeleto++ | NEWS:
16:26 dalek parrot: [doc] Add info to NEWS
16:27 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/cb6ec5f780
16:28 pyrimidine left #parrot
16:35 dalek nqp: b5c4138 | pmichaud++ | src/HLL/Compiler.pm:
16:35 dalek nqp: Add stat.pasm to list of automatically-included macros.
16:35 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/b5c41388a0
16:38 mj41 left #parrot
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16:58 rohit_nsit08 Coke:ping
17:01 whiteknight hello rohit_nsit08
17:02 Coke rohit_nsit08: pong.
17:04 rohit_nsit08 whiteknight: hello
17:04 rohit_nsit08 Coke: hi
17:07 whiteknight rohit_nsit08: how is your project going?
17:07 rohit_nsit08 Coke: I wanted to ask about how to go with incorporating the whole object system , like when will it get initialized
17:08 rohit_nsit08 whiteknight: I have finished the object system and also the test system as well , rightnow working to get everything tied into one global object
17:08 rohit_nsit08 and writing tests for them
17:08 whiteknight rohit_nsit08: are all your current changes pushed to github?
17:08 Coke I don't understand the question, can you rephrase?
17:09 rohit_nsit08 Coke : hmm like when the program execution starts everything starts in global scope and has access to the global object
17:09 rohit_nsit08 and its properties
17:10 rohit_nsit08 so global object must be initialized before the program execution starts to be able to access its properties if someone wants to access the
17:10 rohit_nsit08 them
17:10 Coke if you're already instantiating the object, you should be able to just store it in a known global location and then get_* (e.g. get_global) it later.
17:11 Coke ok. if you're looking to run stuff at the begining, you'd tag your initialization sub as :init (if people are running it directly) or :load (if they are doing a load_bytecode)
17:11 Coke anything in subs marked that way will be run at that particular "phase".
17:12 rohit_nsit08 I was thinking to use a load_bytecode and call the object system stored in another PIR file
17:12 Coke ok. then whatever initialization you need to do should be in a pir sub marked :load
17:13 rohit_nsit08 okay
17:13 Coke e.g.: https://github.com/partcl/partcl/b​lob/master/runtime/tcllib.pir#L94
17:14 Coke (quick bio break, brb, keep asking questions, someone will answer if I don't before I return.)
17:14 rohit_nsit08 Coke: got it , I was thinking the same way to achieve this, another doubt was to handle the regex object
17:17 rohit_nsit08 i'm getting confused with the regex patterns and how to deal with them in PIR , I know PIR supports dynamic execution but still need to discuss this
17:19 rohit_nsit08 sorry last line was related to eval() function
17:20 Coke regarding the regexes, I would use the underlying code in nqp-rx to /execute/ the regexes, and just provide the JS syntax to invoke them.
17:20 Coke making the regexes actually support JS RE syntax as opposed to perl-ish syntax is probably beyond the scope of the project.
17:22 * Coke tries to install Node.js on this box...
17:22 rohit_nsit08 hmm let me have a look at the perl-ish syntax for regexes
17:26 whiteknight rohit_nsit08: If you have a compiler object, you can register it with the compreg op
17:26 whiteknight then, in eval(), you can get the compiler back from compreg and compile things
17:28 Coke rohit_nsit08: I would say step one is getting the js Regex object (and // syntax) to call the default nqp-rx style. Then at a later time, you can see about replacing the npq-style with your own implementation. (which is a simple matter of programming, but again, more than you have time for.)
17:28 Coke (ugh. macport selfupdate SLOWWWWWW)
17:28 cotto_work ~~
17:29 rohit_nsit08 ya I do have a compiler object, hmm ya I can use compreg in eval and get the job done
17:30 rohit_nsit08 Coke: can u show me any documentation about nqp-rx ?
17:30 Coke heh.
17:30 rohit_nsit08 I am browsing through perl regexes
17:31 Coke I found the best documentation was existing code, unfortunately. Anyone else have a different experience?
17:31 Coke (that said, github.com/partcl/partcl-nqp is written using nqp-rx
17:31 rohit_nsit08 code will work :-)
17:32 Coke (and even has a start at a new regex engine since tcl's regexes are slightly different than perl5's.)
17:32 jnthn__ rohit_nsit08: What are you writing your compiler/built-ins in?
17:32 Coke ugh. but yah, if you're doing your regular stuff in raw PIR, I'm not sure how easy that will be to import.
17:32 Coke (partcl-nqp is nqp-rx all the way down.)
17:33 jnthn__ Yeah, you can then have $regex in a string and just use interpolation... /<$regex>/
17:33 rohit_nsit08 jnthn_ : compiler built-in as in? I'm writing  inbuilt functions and objects in pir
17:33 darbelo left #parrot
17:33 jnthn__ rohit_nsit08: OK. You can still get hold of the NQP compiler through compreg if it's loaded.
17:33 jnthn__ Then use that
17:34 jnthn__ There may be a way to get at the regex compiler more directly too through compreg
17:34 jnthn__ So you'll be able to call into it from PIR
17:35 rohit_nsit08 jnthn__ : that will be the best If I can get it in PIR, btw do I need to check if NQP compiler is loaded or not?
17:35 whiteknight load_language "NQP" should do it
17:36 Coke (ah, good, glad to see it's easy to pull in the bits we need.)
17:36 rohit_nsit08 hmm okay that will do
17:38 rohit_nsit08 Coke: fyn, let me try to get the regexp work today and than have another meeting tomorrow if things don't go smooth .
17:39 Coke fyn?
17:40 Coke (fine?)
17:40 rohit_nsit08 Coke: where should I look in partcl-tcl for the regexp
17:40 rohit_nsit08 ohh sorry "fine"
17:40 Coke yah, that's fine. I'll be on about the same time, and if not, these folks can help out.
17:40 Coke https://github.com/partcl/pa​rtcl-nqp/tree/master/src/ARE
17:41 Coke I think ARE is "advanced RE" (tcl nomencalture)
17:41 Coke *nomenclature
17:41 Coke Grammar.pm is a perl6-style grammar that defines the various bits of the regexes, and Actions contains the processing.
17:41 Coke like I said, too much for this version. ;)
17:42 whiteknight Eventually, I would expect the javascript compiler to use pcre or something
17:42 Coke (if we can get the nqp stuff in perl5 mode, that's going to be close enough.)
17:42 rohit_nsit08 Coke: hmm okay I'll look into this, and will be available on gtalk for some quick doubts
17:42 Coke k
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18:09 dalek Rosella/template_tests: eac8b6f | Whiteknight++ | / (2 files):
18:09 dalek Rosella/template_tests: Quick fix to the test-for-namespace template
18:09 dalek Rosella/template_tests: review: https://github.com/Whiteknig​ht/Rosella/commit/eac8b6f656
18:09 dalek Rosella/template_tests: 04f5989 | Whiteknight++ | / (3 files):
18:09 dalek Rosella/template_tests: Fix test_*.winxed.template files to generate the kinds of output I want for both cases
18:09 dalek Rosella/template_tests: review: https://github.com/Whiteknig​ht/Rosella/commit/04f59895c1
18:09 dalek Rosella/template_tests: 9cd954f | Whiteknight++ | / (2 files):
18:09 dalek Rosella/template_tests: Fix equality checking in mockobject method parameters. Add a test file for Template.t
18:09 dalek Rosella/template_tests: review: https://github.com/Whiteknig​ht/Rosella/commit/9cd954f623
18:09 dalek Rosella/template_tests: 9991bad | Whiteknight++ | / (7 files):
18:09 dalek Rosella/template_tests: Add several test files for template. Quick fixes to standard templates.
18:09 dalek Rosella/template_tests: review: https://github.com/Whiteknig​ht/Rosella/commit/9991badafc
18:09 dalek Rosella/template_tests: 3ea8aa9 | Whiteknight++ | t/template/ (14 files):
18:09 dalek Rosella/template_tests: Add in some stub test files that were auto-generated by test_all_lib utility. Not human-edited yet
18:09 dalek Rosella/template_tests: review: https://github.com/Whiteknig​ht/Rosella/commit/3ea8aa9f8d
18:09 mj41 left #parrot
18:25 bluescreen left #parrot
18:27 bubaflub whiteknight: i'm definitely interested in the vectorized and/or templated test stuff you've got in Rosella
18:28 whiteknight bubaflub: i'm starting to get pretty excited about it
18:29 bubaflub whiteknight: yeah, originally i was thinking about re-doing my tests with code-generation
18:29 bubaflub but it looks like i might be able just to use this stuff
18:29 pmichaud_ Parrot doesn't provide a mechanism to fetch/test file permissions?
18:30 pmichaud_ is now known as pmichaud
18:30 whiteknight pmichaud: OS PMC has some permissions methods
18:30 * pmichaud checks.
18:30 whiteknight pmichaud: and io.ops has stat and all
18:30 pmichaud stat seems to only do a few functions
18:33 pmichaud yeah, looks like os.pmc is the way to go.  thanks.
18:36 rohit_nsit08 left #parrot
18:38 pmichaud well, except for testing that a path is a symlink.  That seems to require the file.pmc  :-(
18:39 pmichaud (unless I go hardcoding constant bitflags somewhere)
18:39 whiteknight our os API is not stellar
18:39 bluescreen joined #parrot
18:40 whiteknight bubaflub: I'm really starting to get excited about some of the new functionality. I have a utility program I'm playing around with that takes a .pbc file reference, pulls out all the namespaces, classes, and subs from it, and outputs an entire suite of test files for everything in it
18:40 bubaflub whiteknight: verrrrry nice.  should be easy to increase coverage that way.
18:41 whiteknight very easy. I did the first test of it today. I used that tool to generate the tests for one of the new libraries that the tool uses
18:41 whiteknight bubaflub: and I have a similar program that takes a .pbc, reads out all the classes, namespaces, and subs, and generates winxed include files
18:41 bubaflub whiteknight: what i'm thinking i need is something that can handle the boilerplate for each test file as well as all the boring parts - initialize these variables with these values and call this function and assert something about the output
18:42 whiteknight bubaflub: Here's a text template that I use with Rosella: https://github.com/Whiteknight/Rosella/blob/master​/rosella/data/templates/test_class.winxed.template
18:43 bubaflub whiteknight: this is exactly what i need.
18:43 whiteknight you feed it a class object, and it outputs the entire test file for you
18:43 bubaflub whiteknight: also, i have some templates for my Winxed stuff.  i may replace those as well
18:43 bubaflub whiteknight: right now they are just dumb files that i append to
18:43 whiteknight I need to write up a blog post about some of these new things
18:44 bubaflub whiteknight: so in my case, instead of having a class to read from, i'll just have a YAML file that lists the function i want to test, the variables i need to initialize (name, type, and value), and what needs to be asserted about the output
18:47 pmichaud has a time been chosen for PDS yet?  Did I miss the announcement?
18:47 whiteknight pmichaud: yes it was
18:47 whiteknight aloha: PDS?
18:47 aloha whiteknight: PDS is Sat May 14 2011, 2100 hours
18:47 whiteknight ...old
18:47 pmichaud looks like I missed it.  :)
18:47 whiteknight aloha: PDS Q2 2011?
18:47 aloha whiteknight: PDS Q2 2011 is Saturday July 30 at 2100 UTC
18:47 whiteknight aloha forget PDS
18:47 aloha whiteknight: I forgot about PDS.
18:48 whiteknight aloha PDS is Saturday July 30 at 2100 UTC
18:48 aloha whiteknight: Okay.
18:48 pmichaud seems like there should be a message to parrot-dev and/or parrot-users
18:48 atrodo 5:00 eastern, correct?
18:49 whiteknight I thought there was an email
18:50 pmichaud there's an email saying the scheduling decision would likely be made at #parrotsketch, but I don't see one that says what decision was made :)
18:50 contingencyplan joined #parrot
18:51 whiteknight ah, maybe an email was missed. We should send one
19:05 dalek rakudo/nom: 7129b21 | pmichaud++ | src/ (5 files):
19:05 dalek rakudo/nom: Add some filetest operators.
19:05 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/7129b213a9
19:07 theory joined #parrot
19:11 NotFound joined #parrot
19:12 theory left #parrot
19:20 mj41 joined #parrot
20:05 zby_home joined #parrot
20:11 dalek rakudo/nom: 08b94ed | pmichaud++ | tools/build/NQP_REVISION:
20:11 dalek rakudo/nom: Bump NQP_REVISION to get stat.pasm.
20:11 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/08b94edfaa
20:12 dmalcolm joined #parrot
20:12 dalek parrot: 43ba0b0 | NotFound++ | t/oo/new-old.t:
20:12 dalek parrot: fix and unTODO the "exception in new" test, TT #1151
20:12 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/43ba0b079b
20:12 theory joined #parrot
20:31 Coke ... still trying to update macports. ;)
20:35 whiteknight left #parrot
20:35 bubaflub Coke: you should checkout homebrew (http://mxcl.github.com/homebrew/)
20:42 Coke bubaflub: looks like "we don't like tcl, so we rolled our own with ruby"
20:42 Coke (and or svn/git)
20:44 dodathome left #parrot
20:46 dalek rakudo/nom: 81f235a | jonathan++ | src/Perl6/ (3 files):
20:46 dalek rakudo/nom: A little more work on enums so that enum Foo <Bar Baz> at least now gets you a Bar/Baz/Foo::Bar/Foo::Baz that you can say.
20:46 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/81f235a1c6
20:46 dalek rakudo/nom: 8b10f1c | jonathan++ | src/Perl6/Actions.pm:
20:46 dalek rakudo/nom: Fix so colonpairs work inside enums also.
20:46 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/8b10f1ce80
20:48 dukeleto this is pretty freaking cool: http://developer.github.com/v3/git/
20:48 theory left #parrot
20:49 theory joined #parrot
20:50 Coke so.... why did we move some opcodes out into dynops?
20:51 Coke is it supposed to make things faster or indicate a level of support, or...?
20:51 Coke (and do those decisions make sense as we move to m0)
21:01 cotto_work dukeleto: what's the right way to send a feature request to github?
21:01 ambs joined #parrot
21:03 theory left #parrot
21:05 dukeleto cotto_work: email support@github.com
21:05 cotto_work dukeleto: thanks
21:06 dukeleto Coke: dynops can be selectively loaded at runtime, instead of being forcibly loaded before runtime
21:07 dukeleto Coke: reduces memory use, probably. Does not indicate a change in support level.
21:07 mj41 left #parrot
21:07 bubaflub Coke: yes, it (homebrew) is ruby based.  i like it because it doesn't clobber system libraries and is much faster than macports.  also, making my own formula is easy.
21:07 Coke OK. I'll pass that along to the person who was asking.
21:07 Coke bubaflub: macports doesn't clobber system libraries either.
21:08 Coke and also allows you to create your own ports (as we do for parrot)
21:09 bubaflub Coke: when i used macports, i had to pull down their copy of X11 and all kinds of things that were already on my system... maybe i was just doing it wrong.
21:09 bubaflub or maybe "clobber" wasn't the correct word there
21:10 Coke duplicate?
21:10 bubaflub sure.
21:10 Coke I know they used to suck about that, but I thought they were ok these days about using sys-available placeholders if present.
21:11 Coke I'm only have problems right now because I haven't done a port upgrade of modules in six months.
21:11 Coke (so there's a lot to rebuild.)
21:11 bubaflub understandable
21:14 NotFound Funny fact of the day: a guy asked me to relicense my gpl old-fashioned basic interpreter in order to add propietary code to it and sell in the Mac app store.
21:14 Felipe haha
21:15 bubaflub NotFound: you should beat him to the punch
21:15 cotto_work NotFound: give him PIRRIC
21:16 NotFound I feel tempted to say yes. It will be a lot of fun seeing app stores fulll of silly games from the '80
21:17 NotFound Hundreds of versions of hangman...
21:21 dukeleto NotFound: did he offer to pay you to license it?
21:22 NotFound dukeleto: not even a word about that.
21:23 dukeleto NotFound: I would spit in his eye, but that is just me.
21:25 ambs left #parrot
21:26 NotFound I'm just going to tell him that I can't do that, because the codebase includes GPL'ed code borrowed from several sources and I have no time nor interest to isolate that pats.
21:26 NotFound parts
21:27 PerlJam Just tell him to GPL the proprietary code  :)
21:27 theory joined #parrot
21:29 NotFound He says "GPL is simply too restrictive", surely to prevent such answer :D
21:29 Coke NotFound: I'd definitely keep an eye on his store front.
21:29 bubaflub left #parrot
21:30 bubaflub joined #parrot
21:31 PerlJam dukeleto: regarding dynops and such ... is there some documented philosophy about which should be dynops and which not?
21:32 dukeleto PerlJam: basic philosophy is less-used ops become dynops, so that everyone isn't forced to load them. For instance, random number generation became dynops a while ago. I am not sure it is written down anywhere
21:34 bluescreen left #parrot
21:39 cotto_work We should write that down.
21:43 SteveH joined #parrot
21:43 Psyche^ joined #parrot
21:44 bubaflub left #parrot
21:45 bubaflub joined #parrot
21:48 dukeleto cotto_work: where?
21:48 dukeleto cotto_work: is there a dynop PDD ?
21:48 Patterner left #parrot
21:48 Psyche^ is now known as Patterner
21:50 cotto_work dukeleto: good question
21:54 kid51 joined #parrot
21:56 zby_home left #parrot
21:57 PerlJam Earlier on #perl6 it was mentioned that sqrt is a built-in op and pow a dynop.   Knowing what the mental model should be for that op dichotomy would be a good thing.
21:57 PerlJam (why isn't sqrt a dynop?  Will it ever be?  etc.)
21:58 SteveH left #parrot
22:10 dukeleto PerlJam: sqrt is used more often than pow. Many non-essential math ops were made dynops. I didn't have much say in that decision.
22:10 theory left #parrot
22:11 kid51 dukeleto: Supplied requested data to http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/1930
22:12 dalek rakudo/nom: e0ecb6c | jonathan++ | src/Perl6/ (2 files):
22:12 dalek rakudo/nom: Simplify enum key handling a little.
22:12 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/e0ecb6c96f
22:12 dalek rakudo/nom: a7019da | jonathan++ | src/Perl6/ (2 files):
22:12 dalek rakudo/nom: Make ::?CLASS work, in signatures at least.
22:12 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/a7019dab39
22:12 dalek rakudo/nom: 69069d7 | jonathan++ | src/Perl6/ (2 files):
22:12 dalek rakudo/nom: Get us able to write multi method foo(::?CLASS:D: { ... } in a role and have it work.
22:12 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/69069d7b8f
22:12 dalek rakudo/nom: 31cb7bc | jonathan++ | src/core/Enumeration.pm:
22:12 dalek rakudo/nom: A couple more methods in Enumeration/NumericEnumeration.
22:12 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/31cb7bc2fe
22:16 bubaflub left #parrot
22:30 fperrad left #parrot
22:31 dafrito Random comment: I really love how thorough the PCT tutorial is. Very well done :)
22:37 dukeleto dafrito: thanks!
22:37 dukeleto kid51++
22:38 dalek winxed: ec505b3 | NotFound++ | winxedst1.winxed:
22:38 dalek winxed: new predefined constants __NAMESPACE__ and __CLASS__, as whiteknight++ suggested
22:38 dalek winxed: review: https://github.com/NotFoun​d/winxed/commit/ec505b3d96
23:01 whiteknight joined #parrot
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23:03 dalek rakudo/nom: c9a42e9 | jonathan++ | src/ (2 files):
23:03 dalek rakudo/nom: Continue to flesh out methods on enumerations.
23:03 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/c9a42e9701
23:03 dalek rakudo/nom: 15a304e | jonathan++ | src/ (2 files):
23:03 dalek rakudo/nom: Add .enums and .pick for enumerations.
23:03 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/15a304e55b
23:03 dalek rakudo/nom: 59587d1 | jonathan++ | NOMMAP.markdown:
23:03 dalek rakudo/nom: Update nommap.
23:03 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/59587d1b55
23:10 whiteknight NotFound++
23:11 whiteknight NotFound++
23:11 dalek winxed: d683988 | NotFound++ | / (4 files):
23:11 dalek winxed: fix __NAMESPACE__, bump version to 1.1.devel and add --version option to non installed driver
23:11 dalek winxed: review: https://github.com/NotFoun​d/winxed/commit/d683988c42
23:11 whiteknight NotFound++
23:11 theory left #parrot
23:12 NotFound New convention: VERSION_BUILD = -1 means "devel"
23:14 whiteknight How do we get that value?
23:16 NotFound The method version in the compiler object returns an integer array [VERSION_MAJOR, VERSION_MINOR, VERSION_BUILD ]
23:21 whiteknight ok
23:22 whiteknight When you update the snapshot in the parrot repo, I'll update Rosella with these new things
23:26 whiteknight it makes me very happy
23:27 NotFound Probably tomorrow. Now i must go.
23:28 NotFound Bye
23:28 NotFound left #parrot
23:28 kid51 dukeleto: Full post to come (doing $job work now) -- but got same error in t/op/number.t with "all g++ and --optimize".  So it's the --optimize that is the problem.

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