Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #parrot, 2011-08-01

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:24 whiteknight what bugs me most about these IMCC line number errors is that we are using yylineno
00:24 whiteknight we *have* correct line number information floating around, and we're not using it
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00:24 whiteknight or, we're only reading it at certain times, and not updating enough
00:26 whiteknight ...I also didn't know that we had "setline" and "setfile" PIR directives
00:26 whiteknight that's new to me
00:27 NotFound whiteknight: I think they aren't used at all, are a remaining of the pre-annotations times.
00:28 whiteknight NotFound: a few tests use setline and setfile. I can't find any instances of the .line and .file directives
00:28 whiteknight I don't know why we have both
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00:28 kid51 ~~
00:28 whiteknight We need to start inventing new curse words
00:28 NotFound Yes, we have some tests for things that nobody uses, and have important things untested X-)
00:29 whiteknight The ones I have in my vocabulary aren't sufficient
00:29 NotFound whiteknight: Have you seen my post at www.parrot.org?
00:30 whiteknight NotFound: I have it open in the browser. It's queued
00:34 whiteknight NotFound: UnManagedStruct is deprecated
00:34 whiteknight NotFound: Can we add something to the String PMC instead?
00:34 whiteknight like $S0 = String.get_as_encoding("utf8")
00:35 NotFound whiteknight: if you give a way fo get a String PMC from the return of a nci call, no problem.
00:36 whiteknight NotFound: Okay, so you're looking for a way to get a return value as a specific encoding?
00:37 kid51 NotFound: thanx for blog post!
00:37 NotFound According to what I have read, 'p' is now the way to get returned C strings... and 'p' returns an UnManagedStruct,
00:38 NotFound So if it's deprecated just tell me what is going to take its role, and add the same method to it.
00:38 whiteknight NotFound: I assume Ptr will replace it
00:40 whiteknight or maybe PtrBuf
00:41 NotFound What we need is way to get an appropiately encoded string from a C string, in PIR. Preferably without ugly complications and without several copying involved.
00:42 whiteknight We should update NCI to return PtrBuf. Then add a method to PtrBuff to return a STRING with a given encoding
00:42 NotFound "we" the people that use non english languages, mostly ;)
00:42 whiteknight PtrBuf.as_string(string encoding [optional])
00:45 NotFound Adding the method to it and to UnManagedStruct will be better for an easy end of deprecation cycle.
00:45 whiteknight okay, we can do that too
00:46 whiteknight does strlen() work on strings in alternate encodings?
00:46 dalek TT #2168 created by whiteknight++: Deprecate .file, .line, setline, and setfile
00:46 dalek TT #2168: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/2168
00:46 NotFound You mean parrot strings?
00:47 whiteknight no, C strings
00:47 whiteknight PtrBuf needs a length parameter
00:47 NotFound C strings are zero terminated by definition.
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00:48 whiteknight and that doesn't conflict with a utf-8 encoded string, which has embedded NULLs?
00:48 NotFound C wide strings are a different problem, but I don't have use cases for that.
00:48 whiteknight ok
00:50 NotFound whiteknight: yes, but a function that returns a C string can't use embedded NULLs. There is an special codepoint used in special cases, though.
00:50 whiteknight ok
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00:52 NotFound My current goal is practical important usages, such as libxml and datbases. More complicated cases may appear, but I think woryying about them without use cases to test is wasting time.
00:52 whiteknight ok
00:52 whiteknight I have to go, my battery is running out. Let's talk about it more tomorrow
00:52 NotFound 'k
00:53 whiteknight goodnight
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00:56 NotFound kid51: What do you think about the issue?
01:07 kid51 which issue?
01:08 NotFound The one in the post.
01:11 NotFound NM, have to go now.
01:11 NotFound AFK
01:11 kid51 About NCI?  Well, I must confess most of those issues are outside my scope.
01:13 kid51 But I like your idea of focusing on practical important usages in making design decisions ...
01:13 kid51 ... and I'd also like to know which are the "important things [left] untested".
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02:29 dalek parrot/whiteknight/imcc_tag: cc760d6 | jkeenan++ | src/pmc/ (2 files):
02:29 dalek parrot/whiteknight/imcc_tag: [codingstd] Correct trailing whitespace, c parens, unused c arg assert (ran headerizer.pl).
02:29 dalek parrot/whiteknight/imcc_tag: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/cc760d6bda
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03:48 cotto ~~
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03:49 benabik o/ cotto
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03:57 cotto hi benabik
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04:12 benabik cotto: How's things?
04:12 benabik Huh.  I just noticed the timestamp in my IRC window is UTC.
04:15 cotto curious
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07:49 dalek parrot: e5b8ab4 | fperrad++ | runtime/parrot/library/distutils.pir:
07:49 dalek parrot: [distutils] customize pod2man
07:49 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/e5b8ab42b8
07:59 dalek lua: 4308744 | fperrad++ | lua (2 files):
07:59 dalek lua: use the manpage layout
07:59 dalek lua: review: https://github.com/fperrad/lua/commit/4308744e99
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08:15 dalek markdown: 6e77c38 | fperrad++ | setup.pir:
08:15 dalek markdown: use man_pod
08:15 dalek markdown: review: https://github.com/fperrad/​markdown/commit/6e77c38cd9
08:15 dalek markdown: 8f6a598 | fperrad++ | markdown.pir:
08:15 dalek markdown: use the manpage layout
08:15 dalek markdown: review: https://github.com/fperrad/​markdown/commit/8f6a59819b
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08:21 dalek parrot: 585dd73 | fperrad++ | runtime/parrot/library/distutils.pir:
08:21 dalek parrot: [distutils] more doc
08:21 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/585dd73e3e
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09:50 dalek parrot-MT19937: b8b06e5 | fperrad++ | / (2 files):
09:50 dalek parrot-MT19937: add man_pod
09:50 dalek parrot-MT19937: review: https://github.com/fperrad/par​rot-MT19937/commit/b8b06e54f8
09:50 dalek parrot-MT19937: 4603dd0 | fperrad++ | Math/Random/mt19937ar.pir:
09:50 dalek parrot-MT19937: use the manpage layout
09:50 dalek parrot-MT19937: review: https://github.com/fperrad/par​rot-MT19937/commit/4603dd0488
10:06 dalek lolcode: fecfa81 | fperrad++ | / (3 files):
10:06 dalek lolcode: add manpage
10:06 dalek lolcode: review: https://github.com/parrot/​lolcode/commit/fecfa81ee9
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12:15 whiteknight good morning, #parrot
12:17 moritz good morning
12:17 moritz src/pmc/exception.pmc mentions several attributes, "message", "severity" etc.
12:17 atrodo =~
12:17 moritz but docs/user/pir/exceptions.pod doesn't use setattribute, but keyed access  ex['severity] = ...
12:18 atrodo This is fun.  My windows 98, old school PATA drive will blue screen my XP box
12:18 moritz does it matter which form one uses?
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12:27 * lucian has managed to salvage some data
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12:44 whiteknight moritz: it should not matter, I don't think
12:45 whiteknight I suspect VTABLE_get_attr_str and VTABLE_get_pmc_keyed_str would fall back to the same lookup
12:46 whiteknight lucian: awesomeness. How much of it?
12:46 lucian whiteknight: the working directory, and i think a few commits
12:47 lucian apparently i had made the wrong assumption that linux's hfsplus can handle time machine's hard links to directories
12:47 lucian even hfsexplorer(win only) can't
12:47 lucian well, it can a little
12:48 lucian it just baffles me that apple devs thought it was a good idea to enable hard links to dirs
12:52 whiteknight interoperability is certainly not at the top of their list of priorities
12:53 lucian yes, i noticed
12:53 lucian there's a gsoc project to update hfsplus, with journaling and hard link translation
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13:03 bubaflub ~
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13:26 lucian if i get "Could not find sub sayf" when running the rosella test suite, should i just look for a typo, or is something likely missing
13:26 whiteknight something might be missing
13:27 whiteknight is that with a recent Rosella checkout?
13:28 lucian whiteknight: a few days ago
13:28 whiteknight might be some weird bug somewhere. sayf is part of the core API and should be available
13:30 lucian might this be related to me running on ARM?
13:30 whiteknight I hope not. sayf is just like any other function, and should be found by normal lookup
13:30 whiteknight and it's pure parrot, so nothing machine-related
13:32 lucian hmm
13:32 * lucian is building rosella
13:32 whiteknight it's very possible that some changes in winxed lookup rules, or other similar funniness is behaving differently
13:32 whiteknight or, maybe you checked out an unstable snapshot
13:33 lucian no, i'm using winxed 1.0.0
13:33 whiteknight let me fire up my VM and test it
13:46 lucian whiteknight: great, even rosella's build fails
13:46 lucian can't understand this, it worked a few days ago
13:52 whiteknight what's the build error?
13:54 whiteknight heh, I just got the sayf error in a test run. Let me dig into it
13:54 lucian whiteknight: i've cleaned some stuff, i'll let you know about that
13:54 lucian ok, build works but install fails
13:56 lucian whiteknight: https://gist.github.com/1118165
13:56 whiteknight I think I pushed some broken stuff to master last week instead of to a branch
13:56 whiteknight give me a minute
13:59 dalek Rosella: eac8b6f | Whiteknight++ | / (2 files):
13:59 dalek Rosella: Quick fix to the test-for-namespace template
13:59 dalek Rosella: review: https://github.com/Whiteknig​ht/Rosella/commit/eac8b6f656
13:59 dalek Rosella: 04f5989 | Whiteknight++ | / (3 files):
13:59 dalek Rosella: Fix test_*.winxed.template files to generate the kinds of output I want for both cases
13:59 dalek Rosella: review: https://github.com/Whiteknig​ht/Rosella/commit/04f59895c1
13:59 dalek Rosella: 9cd954f | Whiteknight++ | / (2 files):
13:59 dalek Rosella: Fix equality checking in mockobject method parameters. Add a test file for Template.t
13:59 dalek Rosella: review: https://github.com/Whiteknig​ht/Rosella/commit/9cd954f623
13:59 dalek Rosella: 9991bad | Whiteknight++ | / (7 files):
13:59 dalek Rosella: Add several test files for template. Quick fixes to standard templates.
13:59 dalek Rosella: review: https://github.com/Whiteknig​ht/Rosella/commit/9991badafc
13:59 dalek Rosella: 3ea8aa9 | Whiteknight++ | t/template/ (14 files):
13:59 dalek Rosella: Add in some stub test files that were auto-generated by test_all_lib utility. Not human-edited yet
13:59 dalek Rosella: review: https://github.com/Whiteknig​ht/Rosella/commit/3ea8aa9f8d
13:59 dalek Rosella: 80577e6 | Whiteknight++ | src/ (2 files):
13:59 dalek Rosella: Fix bug in Harness.View where I forgot to qualify sayf->Rosella.IO.sayf
13:59 dalek Rosella: review: https://github.com/Whiteknig​ht/Rosella/commit/80577e6224
13:59 dalek Rosella: 67bc8e8 | Whiteknight++ | setup.winxed:
13:59 dalek Rosella: fix the names of installed template files
13:59 dalek Rosella: review: https://github.com/Whiteknig​ht/Rosella/commit/67bc8e837f
13:59 whiteknight hmmm.... Apparently I hadn't pushed the correct stuff in quite a while
13:59 whiteknight I don't know how old some of those commits are
14:01 Felipe morning devs
14:01 whiteknight hello Felipe
14:07 lucian whiteknight: yay, works
14:07 lucian and yay, all my tests fail :)
14:08 whiteknight a result is  better than no result
14:09 whiteknight passing tests are better. And cake with passing tests is the best
14:09 lucian i expected that, i changed lots of things in the object system to fix some ugly bugs
14:13 lucian ah, my recursive get_mro is broken
14:14 whiteknight that's a pretty important function to break
14:16 lucian before bootstrap, it's not used
14:28 Coke I find lucian's rant about apple's hard links in their proprietary backup client baffling.
14:29 lucian Coke: because it's their proprietary backup client?
14:29 Coke it's a clever solution to the problem, lets them keep their backup size very small, and is only ever intended to work on apple machines anyway.
14:29 Coke So, I'm not sure what you were expecting there.
14:30 lucian i was hoping for some interoperability
14:31 Coke I think that was an unreasonable expectation, even if you were unaware of the tech stack they were using.
14:31 lucian perhaps
14:32 lucian i'm more surprised than upset. one of the first things i would've though of is "will users lose data if they switch OS-es?"
14:33 Coke From a business standpoint, their primary concern is to make it easy to switch TO apple, not AWAY from apple.
14:33 lucian sure
14:34 Coke You could probably take the drive to an apple store or repair place, along with a spare drive, and get a restore done, though.
14:35 lucian perhaps it's my fault for not buying into the apple mindset
14:35 lucian i've never specifically wanted an osx machine, and i don't particularly want a second one
14:35 lucian now, tha tis
14:35 Coke You're welcome to borrow my home desktop if you swing by. ;)
14:36 lucian :) what continent?
14:36 Coke NA
14:36 lucian wrong answer :)
14:37 Coke I only do "best effort" support. ;)
14:38 lucian what irks me is that i almost like the new apple 13" machines
14:38 lucian and i've yet to find any other good 13" machine
14:39 Coke http://hints.macworld.com/artic​le.php?story=20080623213342356
14:39 Coke not a "mount and go" solution, but should help you get your files back.
14:40 lucian i used HFSExplorer, pretty good
14:40 lucian sadly, it can only do real drives on windows
14:40 lucian had to use a friend's laptop
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14:44 NotFound I think that Apple view point is that if you switch OS you've lost your soul, so losing data is irrelevant ;)
14:49 lucian Coke: re that link, that didn't work for me. i think it's possible apple have changed bits
14:56 dalek rakudo/nom: 6e1cfd4 | moritz++ | / (3 files):
14:56 dalek rakudo/nom: rename INSTALLME to INSTALL.txt
14:56 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/6e1cfd4bb8
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16:01 dalek NQR: 505acd9 | (Jay Emerson)++ | JSM2011.pdf:
16:01 dalek NQR: Uploaded JSM talk slides
16:01 dalek NQR: review: https://github.com/NQRCore/NQR/commit/505acd91a3
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16:28 dalek rakudo/nom: 9d067ac | jonathan++ | src/Perl6/SymbolTable.pm:
16:28 dalek rakudo/nom: Fix a nasty bug where symbol lookup could eat the name of the symbol being looked up, making future lookups fail.
16:28 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/9d067ac960
16:28 dalek rakudo/nom: 3554996 | jonathan++ | src/Perl6/Metamodel/BOOTSTRAP.pm:
16:28 dalek rakudo/nom: Tentatively make metamodel classes available in userspace.
16:28 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/35549966e9
16:28 dalek rakudo/nom: eb3e306 | jonathan++ | src/Perl6/Grammar.pm:
16:28 dalek rakudo/nom: Decontainerize custom meta-objects as be import them.
16:28 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/eb3e3067ad
16:28 dalek rakudo/nom: ba16941 | jonathan++ | src/binder/types.c:
16:28 dalek rakudo/nom: Marshall NULL PMC to Mu when perl6izing.
16:28 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/ba16941571
16:28 dalek rakudo/nom: 9f9a704 | jonathan++ | src/Perl6/Actions.pm:
16:28 dalek rakudo/nom: Fix mentions of $/ in a CATCH of CONTROL block. Patch courtesy of mls++. Unbusts a test in try.t.
16:28 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/9f9a70412f
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17:07 dalek rakudo/nom: b7570f2 | jonathan++ | src/Perl6/Actions.pm:
17:07 dalek rakudo/nom: Fix duplicate emission of CATCH block PAST; mls++ for noticing and research.
17:07 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/b7570f25f5
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17:32 cotto_work ~~
17:32 whiteknight hello cotto_work
17:33 cotto_work 'morning whiteknight
17:37 whiteknight I'm excited to get to work on 6model
17:37 whiteknight I'm actually sort of looking forward to hacking on IMCC to help soh_cah_toa too
17:39 bubaflub whiteknight: woo hoo.
17:39 whiteknight srsly
17:40 bubaflub same.  i'm excited for 6model - should make all object stuff much easier
17:40 whiteknight and faster
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17:42 lucian whiteknight: that's awesome. i'm not particularly excited about perf improvement
17:42 lucian s
17:42 whiteknight lucian: Then you are a small, and well-appreciated minority
17:42 lucian most of what can be done before a JIT is peanuts
17:43 lucian i think it can even potentially hurt performance long-term, since it wastes time, and potentially closes paths
17:43 moritz lucian: 6model has brought a factor 5 perf improvements to some parts of rakudo
17:43 dalek rakudo/nom: 67f49aa | Coke++ | t/spectest.data:
17:43 dalek rakudo/nom: track failure mode.
17:43 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/67f49aa1dd
17:43 lucian moritz: nice, but that's still peanuts
17:43 moritz lucian: not for me who works with it every day
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17:43 whiteknight I was hoping we could add some PIC also, but I'm starting to think that won't be so helpful
17:44 moritz lucian: it's a huge difference if I wait 10s or 2s for a computation
17:44 tadzik I don't think JIT is One, Ultimate Answer to Everything Performance Related
17:44 moritz lucian: 10s is enough to get me distracted, 2s is not
17:44 lucian moritz: i understand that. but what i meant is, a good JIT will get you much farther
17:44 lucian tadzik: not everything, but quite a lot
17:44 lucian it's been demonstrated enough times in practive
17:45 lucian moritz: as in, a few orders of magnitude in some cases, even
17:45 moritz lucian: even a good JIT will suffer if your object system produces way too many GCables
17:45 lucian but yeah, my 800mhz arm machine takes long to build too
17:45 lucian sure, a good GC is also important
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17:47 moritz anyway, I'd love to see a good JIT too, but the parrot+JIT history has told me not to get too excited before I can actually see one running
17:47 whiteknight We ripped our old one out specifically to avoid raising false hopes
17:47 whiteknight well, that was one reason
17:48 lucian parrot is at a disadvantage, since such bits have to be written in C
17:48 lucian but what you'll likely see is a huge jump in perf after a certain tipping point
17:48 moritz well, the old one never worked well for me either
17:48 lucian with a reasonably good gc
17:48 lucian s/gc/jit/
17:49 whiteknight What we can do relatively early is to start putting in some tracing logic
17:49 * lucian nods
17:49 whiteknight loop-top detection and trace recording can be done long before we have a JIT to consume that data
17:49 dalek rakudo/nom: e4ec10f | moritz++ | src/core/Real.pm:
17:49 dalek rakudo/nom: implement Real.base
17:49 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/e4ec10ff26
17:49 lucian i still can't think of an acceptable solution for the reliance on C
17:50 cotto_work M0?
17:50 lucian whiteknight: but even whole-function jiting would help, and that's easier. hotspot's first optimisation step is a pasting jit
17:50 lucian cotto_work: how about the jit itself? gc? tracing?
17:50 whiteknight I don't want to take too many steps down the wrong path though
17:50 PerlJam whiteknight++
17:51 whiteknight we don't have the developer resources to put together a JIT we're planning to throw away
17:51 PerlJam whiteknight: following "wrong paths" is what's got me feeling like parrot should've been called phoenix since it seems to recreate itself every so often.
17:51 lucian whiteknight: sure. reading research will be helpful
17:52 lucian from what i've read, a function-jit isn't necessarily a bad idea
17:52 lucian both v8 and *monkey do it, and they're quite fast
17:52 whiteknight in the move, I found a whole stack of research papers that I started reading through again
17:52 lucian *monkey have actually added a function-jit for the cases where tracing isn't great
17:54 lucian anyway, 6model in parrot, with some actual docs, would be great
17:54 lucian knowing whiteknight, i don't think he'll be able to help himself from writing some docs :)
17:55 whiteknight it's a personality problem with real-world benefits
17:55 lucian :D
17:56 lucian for example, from the vague knowledge of 6model that i have, most of what i've been doing so far for GSoC would've been useless
17:56 whiteknight yes, that's my impression too
17:57 lucian which would be great! but it's just this huge black box, with no labels on it
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17:57 jnthn__ It's a pretty small box really. :)
17:58 lucian jnthn__: heh. i guess
17:58 jnthn__ Agree it needs far more docs and examples.
17:58 jnthn__ The NQP and Rakudo meta-objects are quite well commented, but I suspect still tough reads without a bit more context.
17:59 lucian yes, especially for someone with no perl knowledge
17:59 lucian NotFound: ping
18:00 lucian rather, how does winxed declare subs? does it collect everything, and generate them as top-level PIR?
18:00 whiteknight yeah
18:00 NotFound lucian: pong
18:00 whiteknight it basically just generates run-of-the-mill PIR. Once we have 6model in, I'm sure it will be updated to generate those metaobject calls
18:01 lucian NotFound: ^
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18:01 lucian then how does it handle fun creation inside a loop?
18:01 Eclesia hi
18:02 NotFound All pir .sub are top level.
18:03 NotFound functions are not created, they are just pieces of code. Closures can be cretaed from them when needed.
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18:07 lucian hmm. i wish i could make bytecode and store it
18:07 tadzik can't you?
18:08 lucian tadzik: can i make a little bytecode for a function and store it ?
18:09 whiteknight we do have compreg and runtime eval.
18:09 whiteknight and we have the Packfile PMCs, which allow you to build new packfiles
18:09 lucian right. so maybe i should generate PIR and eval it?
18:13 whiteknight $P0 = compreg "PIR" \n $P1 = $P2.compile("...")
18:13 whiteknight eval will just execute it. .compile() will save you a compiled copy for reuse
18:13 lucian right. nice, that looks like exactly what i want
18:13 whiteknight actually, I don't think PIR supports .eval() yet
18:13 whiteknight lucian: *hint* the python compiler object should implement a similar interface one day *hint*
18:14 lucian when it's self-hosted, maybe
18:20 dukeleto mozilla's tracemonkey JIT is based on nanojit : https://developer.mozilla.org/En/S​piderMonkey/Internals/Tracing_JIT
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18:20 whiteknight ...which is based on millijit, which is based on decijit, which is based on megajit
18:21 lucian dukeleto: yes, that's the assembler. which i think they're abandoning, but that wasn't clear
18:21 dukeleto Mozilla has hundreds if not thousands of coders to throw at problems. If they are reusing nanojit, then we need to carefully consider following their lead
18:21 lucian well, nanojit is their project
18:22 dukeleto lucian: no
18:22 lucian huh?
18:22 dukeleto lucian: Adobe wrote it, and then made it kinda-open-source, and now they both share maintenance of it
18:22 whiteknight I thought Adobe forked it
18:22 lucian right, that's what i meant. their pidgin
18:22 whiteknight and there was a bug problem getting them merged again
18:22 lucian whiteknight: sort of kinda
18:23 lucian they're still technically forked, because adobe can't share
18:23 lucian i'd read some blog posts about *monkey switching to a different generator, or forking nanojit or something
18:23 lucian i was quite surprised
18:23 dukeleto Nanojit is a small cross platform C++ library that emits machine
18:23 dukeleto code. It was originally part of Adobe's Tamarin ActionScript VM. It is
18:23 dukeleto also used by Mozilla in their 'TraceMonkey' JavaScript implementation.
18:23 dukeleto nanojit came out of the actionscript vm
18:24 dukeleto lucian: the term *monkey is not useful
18:24 dukeleto lucian: which monkey are you talking about?
18:24 lucian dukeleto: the full-function jit one
18:25 lucian i thought they were using webkit's assembler for that, or something
18:25 lucian i mean, i suggested nanojit myself, but i'm no expert
18:26 dukeleto TraceMonkey is the tracing jit, and JaegerMonkey is the method-jit
18:26 dukeleto IonMonkey is the new-new JIT compiler, which seems to be a whole new kind of JIT
18:27 lucian right. i hate their naming scheme
18:28 lucian ah, from what i'm reading of IonM, they're aping v8
18:29 lucian seems well thought out
18:29 Eclesia question : does function have signature ? I mean is it possible to have two function with same name and one pmc parameter but each expecting a different type of pmc ?
18:29 whiteknight Eclesia: Yes, we have multiple dispatch
18:30 Eclesia whiteknight: is that some something I must add after the .param in the pir code ?
18:31 dukeleto Eclesia: that is called multimethod dispatch (MMD)
18:31 dukeleto lucian: "aping v8" ?
18:31 dukeleto Eclesia: it is built into parrot
18:32 whiteknight Eclesia: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/blo​b/master/t/pmc/multidispatch.t#L281
18:32 lucian dukeleto: my bad attempt at a joke. ionmonkey seems inspired by v8
18:32 dukeleto Eclesia: if you define two functions, with the same name, but with different .param's (i.e. signatures), parrot will call the correct function at runtime
18:32 whiteknight Eclesia: The ":multi" syntax
18:34 dukeleto lucian: inspired in the sense of trying to be faster than them, yes. But I think mozilla has come up with a genuinely new kind of JIT
18:34 lucian dukeleto: i don't know, i can't find good info on it
18:34 whiteknight From what I've seen with IonMonkey, it didn't look too novel
18:35 whiteknight basically, looks like they're finally putting tracing, type specialization, and optimizations together into a single package
18:35 lucian all i've read is that it does some actual compiler optimisations, like an SSA stage
18:35 lucian which v8 does already
18:35 whiteknight all their previous JITs have been missing one or the other
18:35 Eclesia whiteknight: nice thanks.    '_' is for anything I suppose. and 'Integer' the expected class. if I have namespaces, I write it like this 'eria_paradygm.Decimal' ? or something else ?
18:36 whiteknight Eclesia: I don't know how to do it with namespaces. You're going to have to play with it
18:36 bubaflub ping dukeleto
18:37 Eclesia whiteknight: ok
18:37 bubaflub left #parrot
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18:44 soh_cah_toa i just installed 3.6 and now when i try to use hbdb w/ bytecode generated from it, i get a "PackFile_Header_validate: This Parrot cannot read bytecode files with version 11.0." exception
18:44 soh_cah_toa this branch was last merged pre-3.6 so this means i have to merge again to keep it in-sync, right?
18:46 daniel-s left #parrot
18:53 soh_cah_toa eh, gonna do it anyway
18:54 dalek parrot/soh-cah-toa/hbdb: eb8c84c | soh_cah_toa++ | frontend/hbdb/main.c:
18:54 dalek parrot/soh-cah-toa/hbdb: Store debugee filename using argv[opt.opt_index] instead of argv[argc - 1] so debugee can give arguments.
18:54 dalek parrot/soh-cah-toa/hbdb: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/eb8c84c5ad
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19:05 soh_cah_toa whiteknight: ping
19:06 whiteknight pong
19:08 * Eclesia searching for a basic example of zipfilehandle
19:12 soh_cah_toa whiteknight: i have a few merge conflicts while merging soh-cah-toa/hbdb into master. i should remove the conflicting lines in the makefile in the hbdb branch, not master, right?
19:13 soh_cah_toa b/c if i do (and i just noticed this) i can't build hbdb b/c there are no targets for it in the master branch
19:14 whiteknight soh_cah_toa: don't just remove the lines, merge them together
19:14 whiteknight you're going to have to figure out how it's supposed to fit together now
19:14 soh_cah_toa i don't get it. merge the lines?
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19:15 whiteknight soh_cah_toa:  yeah, somebody else made a change to that file between the time you started your branch and now that you are trying to merge it
19:15 whiteknight soh_cah_toa: so you need to find a way to add your changes to the file, while also keeping the other changes around too
19:16 soh_cah_toa yeah
19:16 whiteknight the final file needs both sets of changes, not either/or
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19:16 soh_cah_toa well obviously somebody doesn't want the 'hbdb' target in the makefile b/c they were there at one time but now they're not
19:16 dukeleto bubaflub: pong
19:17 bubaflub dukeleto: just letting you know - i'm finally moved into my new place and am getting internet again today.  those doc changes should be coming down the pipe soon.
19:17 whiteknight soh_cah_toa: oh
19:17 soh_cah_toa i'm really bad at merge conflicts and i don't want to break master especially since i'm messing w/ the makefile
19:18 dukeleto bubaflub: awesome, thanks for the update. And congrats on the new house!
19:18 bubaflub dukeleto: yup.  it's really coming together.
19:19 whiteknight soh_cah_toa: okay, let's play it safe. Create a new branch from master. Then, merge your hbdb branch into the new branch
19:19 whiteknight fix conflicts there, take your time, and when you are ready, merge the new one into master
19:20 soh_cah_toa alright
19:20 dukeleto soh_cah_toa: are you merging master into hbdb or the other way around? It is very important to understand the distinction. Critical, even.
19:21 soh_cah_toa i'm in master and ran `git merge soh-cah-toa/hbdb`
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19:21 Eclesia gziphandle <- http://docs.parrot.org/parrot/devel/​html/src/dynpmc/gziphandle.pmc.html <- no one has an example for this pmc ?
19:21 dukeleto Eclesia: t/library/archive_zip.t ?
19:22 dukeleto soh_cah_toa: so what does that mean?
19:22 soh_cah_toa uh...merging soh-cah-toa/hbdb into master i think
19:23 dukeleto soh_cah_toa: correct. Now why are you doing that? Not saying you shouldn't, just trying to understand why.
19:23 soh_cah_toa what i said about about the invalid bytecode error
19:23 soh_cah_toa *above about
19:23 dukeleto Eclesia: t/dynpmc/gziphandle.t actually
19:24 dukeleto Eclesia: ack is your friend :)
19:25 Eclesia dukeleto: thanks
19:25 dukeleto soh_cah_toa: i don't think you should be merging into master
19:25 Eclesia dukeleto: and who is 'ack ?
19:25 dukeleto soh_cah_toa: you should just generate new pbc
19:26 dukeleto Eclesia: http://betterthangrep.com/
19:26 soh_cah_toa i installed 3.6 and now hbdb won't run bytecode generated by it
19:26 soh_cah_toa since it was branched pre 3.6
19:26 whiteknight make realclean and reconfigure
19:27 dukeleto Eclesia: basically, a very smart recursive grep that makes your life very nice
19:27 dukeleto Eclesia: also, orders of magnitudes faster than recursive grep
19:27 * dukeleto goes under a rock to get some $work stuff done
19:28 sorear also try git grep, a differently very smart fast recursive grep
19:28 * Eclesia open parrot in netbeans and hit ctrl+f :p
19:29 sorear ack knows what files are interesting because it has a list of source code extensions.  git grep knows what files are interesting because they're checked in to version control
19:29 sorear you can make ack fail by doing interesting things with file extensions.  you can make git grep fail by checking in generated files, or not using git
19:29 sorear know both!
19:30 whiteknight I end up doing "ack -a" most of the time anyway.
19:30 whiteknight Keeping track of which files will and will not be searched is exhausting
19:31 Eclesia millions of tools out there calling for 'test me'. unfornatly a day has only 24h so ... ack will wait a few years
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19:33 soh_cah_toa dukeleto: what do you mean just generate new pbc? that's what causing it to fail
19:34 soh_cah_toa crap, should've read that before i merged. it's still going :(
19:35 dalek parrot/soh-cah-toa/tt-2155: 0b6b4ca | soh_cah_toa++ | / (4 files):
19:35 dalek parrot/soh-cah-toa/tt-2155: Changed previous README's to plain text. Future commits will use plain text as well.
19:35 dalek parrot/soh-cah-toa/tt-2155: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/0b6b4ca5dd
19:35 dalek parrot/soh-cah-toa/tt-2155: 7b85621 | soh_cah_toa++ | editor/README (2 files):
19:35 dalek parrot/soh-cah-toa/tt-2155: Rewrote README in 'editor' directory.
19:35 dalek parrot/soh-cah-toa/tt-2155: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/7b856216b1
19:35 dalek parrot/soh-cah-toa/tt-2155: b72b1c5 | soh_cah_toa++ | config/README:
19:35 dalek parrot/soh-cah-toa/tt-2155: Added README to 'config' directory.
19:35 dalek parrot/soh-cah-toa/tt-2155: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/b72b1c5d38
19:35 dalek parrot/soh-cah-toa/tt-2155: 7818635 | soh_cah_toa++ | docs/README:
19:35 dalek parrot/soh-cah-toa/tt-2155: Added README to 'docs' directory.
19:35 dalek parrot/soh-cah-toa/tt-2155: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/781863514a
19:35 dalek parrot/soh-cah-toa/tt-2155: d9f642b | soh_cah_toa++ | ext/README:
19:35 dalek parrot/soh-cah-toa/tt-2155: Added README to 'ext' directory.
19:35 dalek parrot/soh-cah-toa/tt-2155: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/d9f642b11f
19:35 dalek parrot/soh-cah-toa/tt-2155: 79bb28e | soh_cah_toa++ | frontend/README:
19:35 dalek parrot/soh-cah-toa/tt-2155: Added README for 'frontend' directory.
19:35 dalek parrot/soh-cah-toa/tt-2155: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/79bb28ed28
19:35 dalek parrot/soh-cah-toa/tt-2155: c59bffe | soh_cah_toa++ | include/README:
19:35 dalek parrot/soh-cah-toa/tt-2155: Added README to 'include' directory.
19:35 dalek parrot/soh-cah-toa/tt-2155: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/c59bffe6a4
19:35 dalek parrot/soh-cah-toa/tt-2155: 99c3f73 | soh_cah_toa++ | lib/README:
19:36 dalek parrot/soh-cah-toa/tt-2155: Added README to 'lib' directory.
19:36 dalek parrot/soh-cah-toa/tt-2155: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/99c3f73e7f
19:36 soh_cah_toa guess that slipped in there somehow...
19:37 whiteknight :)
19:38 soh_cah_toa this is so annoying, i made a tmp branched merged it into soh-cah-toa/hbdb w/o any conflicts and now i'm trying to marge that into master except i'm still getting that conflict w/ the makefile
19:39 soh_cah_toa it makes no sense for merging soh-cah-toa/hbdb into hbdb_tmp_merge (which was branched from master) to not have any conflicts but to the merge hbdb_tmp_merge back into master does just like trying to merge soh-cah-toa/hbdb into master directly
19:40 whiteknight do you have local changes to master on your machine?
19:40 soh_cah_toa no
19:40 soh_cah_toa it's still the makefile that's causing problems
19:41 soh_cah_toa i have no idea how to fix it b/c i don't understand the merge conflict stuff written in it
19:41 tadzik give us a screenshot :)
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19:44 soh_cah_toa what the heck? now it's a different conflict
19:44 whiteknight it is the magic of the dance
19:45 soh_cah_toa let me try nopasting
19:47 Coke why do you expect to be able to run your branch against arbitrary installed other parrot?
19:47 Coke ... why not just install /the branch you're working on/ ?
19:48 nopaste "soh_cah_toa" at 192.168.1.3 pasted "Merge Conflicts for soh-cah-toa/hbdb -> master" (830 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/66315
19:48 soh_cah_toa b/c i needed 3.6 for rakudo
19:48 moritz soh_cah_toa: you don't, actually; you could just remove the check from Configure.pl
19:48 moritz in rakudo, that is
19:48 Coke ... um. so you install 3.6 for rakudo. now why is your branch looking in the install dir for stuff?
19:49 moritz or lcoally modify PARROT_REVISION
19:49 Coke looks like a lot of whitespace issues.
19:50 Coke and it looks like you've trying to apply the same thing twice (it's added in both versions?)
19:50 dalek Rosella: b80bd03 | Whiteknight++ | / (9 files):
19:50 dalek Rosella: Implement some tests for Template.Handler.*
19:50 dalek Rosella: review: https://github.com/Whiteknig​ht/Rosella/commit/b80bd03d28
19:50 dalek Rosella: 4b9ca27 | Whiteknight++ | src/unstable/template/ (7 files):
19:50 dalek Rosella: Refactor Template.Handler as a default childless type. Change Handler.Childless -> Handler.Children, and move most child-related logic into it. Add some helper functions for common tasks.
19:50 dalek Rosella: review: https://github.com/Whiteknig​ht/Rosella/commit/4b9ca27ef9
19:50 Coke Are you still trying to do another merge to avoid the original merge, or is this the original merge you were trying to resolve?
19:50 dalek Rosella: 9aef50f | Whiteknight++ | / (5 files):
19:50 soh_cah_toa forget it. how can i get rakudo to install w/o 3.6. then i can just go back to installing parrot from my branch
19:50 dalek Rosella: Special-case template tests in the harness, for now. UpdateHandler and Handler.Children tests
19:50 dalek Rosella: review: https://github.com/Whiteknig​ht/Rosella/commit/9aef50f83c
19:50 dalek Rosella: 7c6667c | Whiteknight++ | t/template/ (13 files):
19:50 dalek Rosella: Quick fixes, mostly skips and todos, to get the rest of the Template tests passing
19:50 dalek Rosella: review: https://github.com/Whiteknig​ht/Rosella/commit/7c6667ce9d
19:50 Coke do you need an installed rakudo?
19:50 moritz soh_cah_toa: which branch of rakudo? master?
19:51 soh_cah_toa the 2011.07 tarball
19:51 moritz ok, that's mater-y
19:51 moritz *mater-y
19:51 * tadzik imagines moritz checking thrice this time...
19:52 moritz soh_cah_toa: run git-describe --tags in your parrot repo
19:52 soh_cah_toa the soh-cah-toa/hbdb branch or master?
19:52 moritz soh_cah_toa: and enter that value into rakudo/build/PARROT_REVISION
19:52 moritz soh_cah_toa: the one you installed
19:52 moritz so probably hbdb branch
19:53 soh_cah_toa ok
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20:08 soh_cah_toa wow, now i'm really annoyed. i just threw everything away, reinstalled parrot from hbdb branch. now when i run hbdb, i don't get the welcome message until i run 'quit'. starting up just gives me the (hbdb) prompt
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20:13 whiteknight soh_cah_toa: I can try to take a look at it tonight, if you want
20:13 whiteknight I can't make promises, my schedule is hardly flexible right now
20:13 soh_cah_toa yeah, i know
20:14 soh_cah_toa i have to write up a gist for you b/c imcc is seriously screwing this up for me. don't know if you read the pds log
20:15 whiteknight soh_cah_toa: yeah, did you get my message the other day? I'll work on IMCC line number problems if you can give me some example scripts where they are very wrong
20:15 soh_cah_toa no, that's odd
20:16 whiteknight ???
20:16 soh_cah_toa well, there are a few things i need but i'll write i up in a bit
20:16 whiteknight ok
20:16 soh_cah_toa in particular, i need to map line numbers to opcodes. i know this will be a one to many relationship
20:17 soh_cah_toa also, i need you to help me understand how i can use the packfile pmc's
20:18 whiteknight sure thing
20:18 soh_cah_toa great, thanks
20:18 whiteknight what do you need to do with the packfile pmcs? Read them or write them?
20:18 soh_cah_toa read
20:18 whiteknight okay, what are you reading?
20:19 soh_cah_toa a .pir file
20:20 soh_cah_toa that gets compiled to pbc
20:20 whiteknight no no, what kinds of values do you want to get from the packfile? constants? the opcode stream? annotations? the debug segment?
20:20 soh_cah_toa all that
20:20 whiteknight ah, the shotgun approach. I like it
20:24 soh_cah_toa is the source -> bytecode mapping in the debug segment generated from imcc? is it accurate?
20:24 whiteknight "yes" and "i don't know"
20:25 soh_cah_toa damn
20:27 soh_cah_toa well, let me try it out. how can i use the packfile pmc to iterate over and print all the lines in a source file?
20:28 whiteknight for the Packfile PMC, I don't know how to do that. You would need to ask bacek or plobsing
20:28 soh_cah_toa eh, alright
20:28 whiteknight I can take a look at it tonight. I haven't used those objects much
20:28 cotto_work or look at the source
20:28 whiteknight there be dragons
20:28 soh_cah_toa yeah, i know
20:28 cotto_work they're dying out
20:28 cotto_work and getting smaller
20:29 whiteknight Last I looked at the source of Packfile PMC and friends, I got the impression they were to be written, not to be read
20:29 benabik Packfile is writing, PackfileView is reading, I thought.
20:29 whiteknight well, sortof
20:29 whiteknight PackfileView is definitely read-only. Packfile is more general purpose
20:29 whiteknight But it was definitely developed with an eye towards writing packfiles
20:30 whiteknight anyway, I have to go. later
20:30 whiteknight left #parrot
20:31 soh_cah_toa agh, i think the title of my next blog is gonna be "how hbdb is ruining my vacation"
20:33 moritz "Give someone a program, and you'll frustrate them for a day. Teach someone to program, and you'll frustrate them for a lifetime."
20:34 tadzik so true
20:34 cotto_work moritz++
20:34 tadzik you're going ParrotQuotes, want it or not :)
20:34 moritz not my invention... picked i up on twitter
20:35 moritz masak++ retweeted it
20:35 moritz or was it MJD?
20:35 moritz nearly the same :-)
20:39 sorear is that so?  well masak needs to write more
20:43 dalek tracwiki: v81 | tadzik++ | ParrotQuotes
20:43 dalek tracwiki: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/wiki/Pa​rrotQuotes?version=81&amp;action=diff
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20:46 cotto_work Coke: ping
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20:52 dalek rakudo/nom: 4d988e8 | moritz++ | LHF.markdown:
20:52 dalek rakudo/nom: remove item from LHF.markdown
20:52 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/4d988e8c55
20:52 dalek rakudo/nom: 57a0e27 | moritz++ | src/Perl6/Actions.pm:
20:52 dalek rakudo/nom: remove trailing ws from Actions.pm -- no functional changes
20:52 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/57a0e271d8
20:52 dalek rakudo/nom: 20a62b2 | moritz++ | src/Perl6/Actions.pm:
20:52 dalek rakudo/nom: handle and check adverbs on rx//
20:52 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/20a62b2eab
20:53 moritz ou...ou...OUCH!
20:53 moritz 17s here
20:53 sorear for #perl6?
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21:27 dalek rakudo/nom: 2af47cb | moritz++ | src/core/Int.pm:
21:27 dalek rakudo/nom: unpessimize Int.base
21:27 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/2af47cb45a
21:27 dalek rakudo/nom: b727910 | moritz++ | src/core/Real.pm:
21:27 dalek rakudo/nom: fix Real.base
21:27 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/b7279101f4
21:29 cotto_work Does anyone know why svn on our trac site was shut down?  The github integration depended on it being active.
21:30 cotto_work I could technically fake a vcs as part of the plugin, but it'd be pretty hacky.
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21:45 dalek rakudo/nom: ee1fe6b | tadzik++ | / (2 files):
21:45 dalek rakudo/nom: Implement unshift
21:45 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/ee1fe6bb72
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22:12 dukeleto cotto_work: they asked me if we were using it anymore, and I said "no". svn was using up most of the inodes on our vm
22:12 dukeleto cotto_work: they made a backup of it, though
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22:16 cotto_work dukeleto: ok.  In the plugin's current state, Trac needs to see some kind of vcs as being active.
22:17 sorear could we get an *empty* svn repo?
22:17 cotto_work sorear: I think that'd work fine.
22:17 sorear surely that would use a reasonable number of inodes
22:18 cotto_work You'd think so.
22:18 cotto_work That sounds easier than hacking on the track plugin.
22:19 cotto_work I'd probably need to re-import the git info, but that's not hard.
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22:32 dalek rakudo/nom: 82481f1 | jonathan++ | src/binder/bind.c:
22:32 dalek rakudo/nom: When we get passed a non-6model argument, try to marshall it. If that fails, complain. This helps with calls in from the outside world, but also avoids a bunch of segfaults.
22:32 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/82481f1342
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23:13 dalek rakudo/nom: 6d143c5 | jonathan++ | src/core/Routine.pm:
23:13 dalek rakudo/nom: Implement Routine.multi.
23:13 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/6d143c5742
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23:24 soh_cah_toa uh...wow. i think i just got breakpoints to work
23:25 soh_cah_toa it's basic and only works w/ opcodes but it works :D
23:25 tadzik soh_cah_toa++!
23:25 tadzik awesome news
23:25 soh_cah_toa yeah, i know. fought that battle nearly all summer
23:26 soh_cah_toa wow, this really cheers me up!
23:28 tadzik I know the feeling :)
23:28 soh_cah_toa :)
23:31 tadzik I'm happy for you :)
23:31 cotto_work me too
23:31 soh_cah_toa thanks
23:32 cotto_work are you breaking on the short or long name of an op?
23:32 soh_cah_toa just the pc number
23:33 cotto_work ok.  So something like "br root_new" wouldn't work.
23:34 cotto_work soh_cah_toa: how are you adjusting your schedule based on the state of imcc?
23:34 soh_cah_toa have you read my last blog post?
23:35 cotto_work re-reading now
23:36 cotto_work ok
23:40 cotto_work Would you be able to predict a rough set of expected features, working from the assumption that imcc will remain a fixed target?
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23:43 cotto_work You have a better idea of what imcc can and can't do now than when you first wrote your schedule.  There should be some features you can implement without relying on line numbers.
23:46 soh_cah_toa well whiteknight is gonna help me w/ that. but besides that, i just don't really know. there's so many code i dont' know about so it really depends on who can help me
23:49 cotto_work Do you have a copy of your original schedule around somewhere?  I'd like to start a wiki page using that and break features into different categories based on how much they depend on the broken bits of imcc.
23:50 cotto_work melange-- only shows me the abstract
23:51 soh_cah_toa eh, i haven't looked at it at all 'cause i'm too afraid to see how behind i really am but i'll try and find it
23:51 cotto_work hard data is your friend
23:52 cotto_work Don't panic.  You're not going to fail because of something code-related outside of your control.
23:53 soh_cah_toa it's just upsetting b/c i used to have such high hopes for this but imcc and a lot of other things slaughtered them
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23:57 nopaste "soh_cah_toa" at 192.168.1.3 pasted "Old Timeline" (79 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/66365
23:58 soh_cah_toa whatever though, i gotta go eat
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23:59 cotto_work msg soh_cah_toa No plan survives first contact with the enemy.
23:59 aloha OK. I'll deliver the message.

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