Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #parrot, 2011-08-12

Parrot | source cross referenced

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:20 kid51 joined #parrot
00:31 kid51 Coke++ for restarting (or fixing) Smolder
00:39 dalek parrot: c3f359c | jkeenan++ | docs/book/pct/ch04_pge.pod:
00:39 dalek parrot: Rebreak lines so as to demonstrate smart whitespace matching better.  See: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/2161.
00:39 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/c3f359c491
00:44 Coke msg kid51 was a permissions problem, fixed by osuosl once we pinged them about it.
00:44 aloha OK. I'll deliver the message.
00:49 cotto_work joined #parrot
01:03 whiteknight joined #parrot
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01:05 whiteknight good evening, #parrot
01:08 bubaflub evening whiteknight
01:09 whiteknight hello bubaflub, how are you doing?
01:10 bubaflub whiteknight: not bad.  working on my last paper for seminary.  itching to just get it finished.
01:10 bubaflub whiteknight: any news on the house?
01:11 whiteknight bubaflub: we went out looking last night with our old realtor, the good one, and we're feeling hopeful again
01:11 bubaflub whiteknight: that's good - i heard your other place fell through.
01:12 whiteknight yeah.
01:13 whiteknight our realtor at the time was not so great, and the sellers were not being realistic with their asking price, and it just didn't work
01:15 whiteknight NotFound: ping
01:16 sorear whereabouts in the world are you?
01:16 woosley joined #parrot
01:17 whiteknight sorear: who?
01:17 soh_cah_toa joined #parrot
01:35 dalek winxed/multi_syntax: 95ce9fe | Whiteknight++ | winxedst1.winxed:
01:35 dalek winxed/multi_syntax: Add a new 'multi' declarator to create multis.
01:35 dalek winxed/multi_syntax: review: https://github.com/Whiteknig​ht/winxed/commit/95ce9feedc
01:35 dalek winxed/multi_syntax: 912bbfa | Whiteknight++ | t/advanced/10multi.t:
01:35 dalek winxed/multi_syntax: +tests for multi. Can define them now, still can't call them elegantly.
01:35 dalek winxed/multi_syntax: review: https://github.com/Whiteknig​ht/winxed/commit/912bbfab70
01:36 dalek winxed/verbose_diagnostics: f89664f | Whiteknight++ | winxed.winxed:
01:36 dalek winxed/verbose_diagnostics: Add a --verbose option to the compiler driver. --verbose=winxed outputs a winxed backtrace on failure. --verbose=pir prints out a PIR backtrace on failure. Omitting it displays no backtrace
01:36 dalek winxed/verbose_diagnostics: review: https://github.com/Whiteknig​ht/winxed/commit/f89664ff6b
01:39 whiteknight msg NotFound take a look at  https://github.com/Whiteknig​ht/winxed/commit/95ce9feedc It does basic :multi with built-in types. I have a few changes to make. I might try to merge MultiFunctionStatement into FunctionStatement and promote to multi if we have functions with the same name
01:39 aloha OK. I'll deliver the message.
01:53 kid51 seen bacek?
01:53 aloha bacek was last seen in #parrot 70 days 15 hours ago joining the channel.
01:53 kid51 seen bacek_at_work?
01:53 aloha bacek_at_work was last seen in msg 16 days 23 hours ago <private message>.
01:58 cotto ~~
02:00 kid51 Y'know, I have to say that I found all those smolder reports showing fails on NetBSD really annoying.
02:01 kid51 We don't have anyone who actually develops on that system, so we have no one who can diagnose/fix the failures.
02:01 kid51 But this box on the compile farm generates more Smolders than any other source.
02:05 bubaflub kid51: can NetBSD fit into a VM like VirtualBox?  maybe we could coax someone into installing it and trying it out
02:06 bubaflub s/fit into/install in/
02:06 kid51 bubaflub: I suspect so, but I have no personal experience with Virtualbox.
02:06 kid51 So don't trust anything I say about that ;-)
02:08 kid51 My feeling is that if we know a particular machine is going to report failures, and if we can't either work on that machine or its equivalent, then maybe we only need one report per 24 hours from that box -- rather than one each commit (which is what it seems like).
02:11 dalek rakudo/nom: 0b90bc4 | Coke++ | t/spectest.data:
02:11 dalek rakudo/nom: track failure modes
02:11 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/0b90bc4ee1
02:12 Coke kid51: just TODO the failing tests for that particular OS.
02:12 Coke that seems to be the appropriate thing if no one has the tuits to fix the test.
02:29 kid51 The failures are only coming when it's configured with "--without-threads"
02:29 kid51 The same box passes without that option.
02:30 kid51 Well, too late tonight for me to think clearly about this any more.
02:47 dalek parrot/soh-cah-toa/hbdb: 5626ad9 | soh_cah_toa++ | t/tools/hbdb/cmds.t:
02:47 dalek parrot/soh-cah-toa/hbdb: Added test for one argument form of 'break' command.
02:47 dalek parrot/soh-cah-toa/hbdb: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/5626ad9e90
02:47 dalek parrot/soh-cah-toa/hbdb: a8277f2 | soh_cah_toa++ | src/runcore/cores.c:
02:47 dalek parrot/soh-cah-toa/hbdb: Commented out statement in runcore that displayed PC value since it's just a stub.
02:47 dalek parrot/soh-cah-toa/hbdb: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/a8277f2380
02:47 dalek parrot/soh-cah-toa/hbdb: e3e3d9a | soh_cah_toa++ | t/tools/hbdb/cmds.t:
02:48 dalek parrot/soh-cah-toa/hbdb: Added test for no argument form of 'run' command.
02:48 dalek parrot/soh-cah-toa/hbdb: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/e3e3d9aa3a
02:48 dalek parrot/soh-cah-toa/hbdb: 43817e3 | soh_cah_toa++ | t/tools/hbdb/cmds.t:
02:48 dalek parrot/soh-cah-toa/hbdb: Added test for no argument form of 'step' command.
02:48 dalek parrot/soh-cah-toa/hbdb: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/43817e3c65
02:51 dalek rakudo/nom: a8f8222 | Coke++ | t/spectest.data:
02:51 dalek rakudo/nom: run fudged tests.
02:51 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/a8f8222418
03:54 theory joined #parrot
04:00 soh_cah_toa msg cotto i got the tests done but some commands like 'continue' can't have a test b/c i can still only run one command at a time. i see what you were talking about now. :\ anyway, now i need your help on how to approach watchpoints. we'll talk tomorrow
04:00 aloha OK. I'll deliver the message.
04:00 soh_cah_toa msg whiteknight if you got some time tomorrow, i could use your help on designing how watchpoints should work. thanks :)
04:00 aloha OK. I'll deliver the message.
04:07 cotto d'oh
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07:04 Eclesia joined #parrot
07:04 Eclesia hi
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11:23 dalek rakudo/nom: cd81901 | moritz++ | / (5 files):
11:23 dalek rakudo/nom: Bring back Perl 6 level stack traces
11:23 dalek rakudo/nom:
11:23 dalek rakudo/nom: There are still a lot of quirks to be worked out, for example some routines
11:23 dalek rakudo/nom: magically not appearing in the stack trace, and other showing up
11:23 dalek rakudo/nom: that I would prefer to keep out (like &die), but I believe it is a net
11:23 dalek rakudo/nom: improvement. The old PIR backtraces can be obtain with the --ll-exception
11:23 dalek rakudo/nom: command line argument.
11:23 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/cd81901c70
11:23 dalek rakudo/nom: d06de50 | moritz++ | NOMMAP.markdown:
11:23 dalek rakudo/nom: update NOMMAP
11:23 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/d06de5068a
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12:23 whiteknight joined #parrot
12:23 whiteknight good morning #parrot
12:23 moritz good morning whiteknight
12:27 whiteknight hello moritz
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12:49 JimmyZ joined #parrot
12:49 dalek winxed: 05d6699 | NotFound++ | winxedst1.winxed:
12:49 dalek winxed: change casting to var semantic when symbols are know at compile time
12:49 dalek winxed: and refactor a few things to accommodate it
12:49 dalek winxed: review: https://github.com/NotFoun​d/winxed/commit/05d6699792
12:53 bluescreen joined #parrot
12:53 whiteknight NotFound: ping
12:53 NotFound whiteknight: pong
12:53 JimmyZ joined #parrot
12:53 whiteknight NotFound: I've been working on the multi patch for winxed yesterday and this morning. I will probably open a pull request for it tonight
12:54 whiteknight it's much nicer than what I msg'd you last nigh
12:55 NotFound whiteknight: nice, but I'll probably don't have enough time to review and test it in time for the release.
12:55 bubaflub ~
12:55 whiteknight NotFound: that's okay. No rush
12:55 JimmyZ joined #parrot
12:56 whiteknight oh wow, the release is this tuesday, isn't it?
12:56 whiteknight I didn't know it was so close
12:56 JimmyZ joined #parrot
13:01 JimmyZ joined #parrot
13:02 NotFound Yes, and this weekend I'll be on Fiesta!
13:02 whiteknight Fiesta? Sounds fun
13:02 NotFound I hope so.
13:05 whiteknight I could have several pull requests waiting for you when you get back :)
13:06 whiteknight I think some will start very good discussions
13:06 whiteknight https://github.com/Whiteknight/winxed/network  Lots of activity here!
13:07 JimmyZ joined #parrot
13:07 dalek rakudo/nom: ab5fbf9 | moritz++ | src/Perl6/ (2 files):
13:07 dalek rakudo/nom: fix s///
13:07 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/ab5fbf9a60
13:12 NotFound Nice graphs
13:14 whiteknight I have a few other features I want to play with too, and things on my laptop from this morning that I haven't pushed
13:14 tadzik going to yapc::eu?
13:14 tadzik aloha: going to yapc::eu?
13:14 aloha tadzik: going to yapc::eu is cotto or jnthn or szabgab or Maddingue or TimToady or rurban or pmichaud or tadzik
13:14 whiteknight aloha going to yapc::na?
13:14 aloha whiteknight: going to yapc::na is cotto or dukeleto or atrodo or Util or kid51 or benabik or soh_cah_toa
13:15 whiteknight er, eu
13:15 moritz http://yapceurope.lv/ye2011/talk/3388 has an interesting selection of people going to YAPC::EU :-)
13:16 NotFound I've been a bit dsitracted from parrot, writing a media player for Android,
13:16 whiteknight NotFound: oh, cool. Is it open-source?
13:17 NotFound Probably, for a now is just in my devel environment and in my tablet for testing.
13:18 NotFound The idea is being easy to use while driving without distracting.
13:19 NotFound Two easy gestures for next/previous, two other for volume up/down.
13:20 whiteknight oh cool
13:21 NotFound Playing is ready, now it needs form to prepare playlist et al.
13:40 whiteknight what is the name of the player? "Media Not Found!"
13:49 NotFound Vidente
13:51 whiteknight that's good too, but not as funny
13:57 JimmyZ Media Player is Not Found!
13:58 JimmyZ left #parrot
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14:21 dalek parrot: 6a0599e | Whiteknight++ | src/pmc/exception.pmc:
14:21 dalek parrot: +docs for Exception.backtrace_strings. TT #2175
14:21 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/6a0599ea95
14:21 JimmyZ joined #parrot
14:24 dalek TT #2175 closed by whiteknight++: method backtrace_strings in PMC Exception not documented
14:24 dalek TT #2175: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/2175
14:24 Coke (release) Uuuuugh. I thought the 3rd tuesday was later also.
14:27 Coke So, yes, release is next tuesday.
14:31 whiteknight Coke: you're grandmaster of those proceedings, right?
14:32 Coke Call me flash.
14:32 moritz flash!
14:33 Coke <glare>
14:38 atrodo Ah aah
14:38 * moritz tests nom on latest parrot
14:38 atrodo (Looks like Queen songs don't translate well)
14:39 * moritz calls Coke the saviour of the universe
14:47 * Coke will roll with the queen theme song to flash if you acknowledge grandmaster flash. :P
14:51 atrodo All hail grandmaster flash Coke!
14:51 Coke great, now I just feel old.
14:51 Coke anyway, release is tuesday. I want those test failures from netbsd to be todo'd before then.
14:52 Coke (they've been failing for so long, we're obviously not going to be able to fix them just yet.)\
14:52 Coke meetings.
14:52 moritz who's the release manager?
14:52 JimmyZ joined #parrot
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14:54 moritz so far the nom spectest on newest parrot look good.
14:54 moritz though only just in S04, a bit early to celebrate :-)
15:04 Coke moritz: for the next release, it's me
15:12 dalek TT #2156 closed by coke++: Relocate Python Scripts in "blib" Directory
15:12 dalek TT #2156: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/2156
15:24 Eclesia left #parrot
15:26 cotto ~~
15:34 not_gerd joined #parrot
15:34 not_gerd hello #parrot
15:37 not_gerd cotto: have you seen http://gerdr.github.com/on​-parrot/rethinking-m0.html ?
15:38 alester joined #parrot
15:38 benabik o/
15:39 cotto not_gerd, I will very soon have seen it. ;)
15:40 * cotto sets xchat to blink on "m0"
15:44 dmalcolm joined #parrot
15:52 moritz not_gerd: if m0+ doesn't have strings, we need *another* low level-ish format that has strings
15:53 moritz not_gerd: I'm afraid we might be stacking up too many low level formats
15:53 not_gerd moritz: no assembly language I know of has the comcepts of strings
15:54 whiteknight not_gerd: Parrot isn't like any other hardware machine
15:55 moritz not_gerd: it's not parrots job to provide an assembly language; it's parrot's job to provide a platform for easily implementing dyanmic languages
15:55 cotto I see some charm in having a layer that's closer to hardware.  The idea of m0+ is a pretty significant change, but I've been wondering what m0 would look like if I was more familiar with assembly.
15:55 moritz not_gerd: an assembly language is just a tool for that job
15:55 not_gerd moritz: that's what PIR/Mole is for - users don't write m0
15:56 moritz not_gerd: and what does compilers emit?
15:57 not_gerd moritz: I see what you're getting at...
15:57 not_gerd however, you can have string ops without having a string type
15:57 benabik Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought M0 is replacing C not PIR.  M0 is what we'll use for opcodes and internals.  PIR is what our HLL compilers will continue to emit.
15:57 benabik And in M0 strings are yet another PMC.
15:58 not_gerd benabik: for efficiency reasons, HLLs will probably want to output bytecode files themselves
15:58 not_gerd without going through PIT, that is
15:58 not_gerd ^PIR
15:59 cotto not_gerd, what kind of complexity would be needed for the translation from m0+ to m0-?
16:00 benabik Yes, but PBC bytecode, not M0 bytecode.  HLLs will want to continue to use the wide variety of opcodes we have at our current level.
16:01 not_gerd cotto: if you don't care for optimizations, translation should be easy (for common ops)
16:01 theory joined #parrot
16:02 not_gerd I choose two m0- registers for each type so each maps to one m0+ opßerand
16:03 cotto not_gerd, are you going to yapc::eu by chance?
16:03 not_gerd cotto: no, sorry
16:06 cotto not_gerd, how far along is your concept of m0+/-?
16:08 not_gerd what you just read is basically it
16:08 not_gerd I really like the idea of bootstrapping via LLVM, but that may not be feasible
16:09 cotto not_gerd, can you expand on the problems with M0 that your post tries to address?
16:11 not_gerd as it is now, m0 is not suited for either interpretation or jitting (more)
16:11 not_gerd you can easily implement interpreters for minimal instruction sets, but no fast interpreters
16:12 not_gerd you can easily implement jitters for a minimal instruction set (in particular, one that is lower-level than the target instruction set), but you won't produce good code without an optimizer
16:12 not_gerd expanding a high-level instruction to several lower-level ones is in general easier than joining them again
16:14 cotto not_gerd, thanks for articulating that.  Those are valid concerns.
16:17 not_gerd perhaps another point to clarify why I introduced m0- in addition to m0+:
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16:18 not_gerd implementing an m0+ interpreter would probably lead to a lot of duplicate code, which will probably mess with cache performance
16:18 not_gerd I'm no expert on that, though
16:25 not_gerd the reason why I singled out LLVM as a targetinstruction set is because you can do this: https://gist.github.com/1142401
16:26 not_gerd ie writing fast interpreters and still be portable
16:27 not_gerd if that goal interferes too heavily with the other features, another approach would be a Mole to LLVM IR compiler
16:37 cotto efficient execution of M0 is important
16:48 Coke hey, does anyone want to take over the release this tuesday?
16:49 Coke I would definitely appreciate it.
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17:02 whiteknight Coke: I can probably do it. You busy?
17:28 not_gerd moritz: restrings in m0+, see https://github.com/gerdr/on-parrot/​commit/9940dce7d6071dab91ddd51d1cd6​bbe5f9e93525#commitcomment-528683
17:47 JimmyZ joined #parrot
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18:03 not_gerd bye, #parrot
18:04 atrodo aloha: msg not_gerd Before m0 was my prototype https://github.com/atrodo/lorito .  If you had the time, I'm curious to chat with you about it
18:04 aloha atrodo: OK. I'll deliver the message.
18:31 Coke whiteknight: I wasn anticipating a difficult which didn't seem to materialize. Nevermind for now. Thanks.
18:31 Coke *was
18:32 dalek rakudo/nom: 6e22b91 | moritz++ | src/core/BackTrace.pm:
18:32 dalek rakudo/nom: refactor BackTrace a bit, hide non-Routines in the setting by default
18:32 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/6e22b9191e
18:38 theory joined #parrot
18:45 dalek rakudo/nom: 537bd91 | Coke++ | tools/update_passing_test_data.pl:
18:45 dalek rakudo/nom: remove unused import, var.
18:45 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/537bd9199a
18:48 whiteknight joined #parrot
19:02 * cotto goes to yurp
19:16 * whiteknight goes derp
19:27 soh_cah_toa joined #parrot
19:29 soh_cah_toa whiteknight: hey hey
19:29 whiteknight soh_cah_toa:  what the dill, yo?
19:30 soh_cah_toa whiteknight: i'm pretty much done picking out bits and pieces from dwarf. now i could use some help in super reviewing the spec to see how an implementation would be possible
19:31 whiteknight soh_cah_toa: okay, I can take a look at it tonightish
19:31 soh_cah_toa yeah sure
19:32 whiteknight What I saw earlier was looking pretty good
19:32 soh_cah_toa i'm really excited about it. i think this could really open up some new doors and possibilities for analysis tools for parrot
19:32 soh_cah_toa profiling as well
19:33 Eclesia joined #parrot
19:33 Eclesia hi
19:33 soh_cah_toa we could integreate it into "hbdb2" w/ a 'profile' command. something like 'profile sample' for pc sampling or 'profile instrument' for runtime instrumentation
19:33 soh_cah_toa Eclesia: howdy
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20:28 dalek rakudo/nom: d3fbdcb | Coke++ | t/spectest.data:
20:28 dalek rakudo/nom: run this fudged test.
20:28 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/d3fbdcb8b4
20:40 Tene_ [A
20:40 bluescreen joined #parrot
20:40 Tene_ Anyone here going to PPW this year?
20:41 soh_cah_toa Tene_: pittsburgh perl workshop?
20:41 Tene_ Yes.
20:41 soh_cah_toa Tene_: yeah, i probably will be there
20:49 dalek Heuristic branch merge: pushed 20 commits to lalrskate by ekiru
20:52 tcurtis ~~
20:55 Eclesia ppw ?
20:56 Tene_ Eclesia: Pittsburgh Perl workshop
20:58 Eclesia hm
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22:22 cotto ~~
22:22 kid51 joined #parrot
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23:00 whiteknight good evening, #parrot
23:07 dalek winxed/multi_syntax: 69759bb | Whiteknight++ | winxedst1.winxed:
23:07 dalek winxed/multi_syntax: Start merging MultiFunctionStatement into FunctionStatement
23:07 dalek winxed/multi_syntax: review: https://github.com/Whiteknig​ht/winxed/commit/69759bbd8c
23:07 dalek winxed/multi_syntax: 0d59163 | Whiteknight++ | winxedst1.winxed:
23:07 dalek winxed/multi_syntax: Remove the multi keyword, and fold multi logic into FunctionStatement. Right now, only works in namespaces
23:07 dalek winxed/multi_syntax: review: https://github.com/Whiteknig​ht/winxed/commit/0d59163eaf
23:07 dalek winxed/multi_syntax: 250bbe7 | Whiteknight++ | winxedst1.winxed:
23:07 dalek winxed/multi_syntax: Add multi funcitionality to class methods.
23:07 dalek winxed/multi_syntax: review: https://github.com/Whiteknig​ht/winxed/commit/250bbe724d
23:07 whiteknight With that patch, we have basic multidispatch in Winxed
23:07 whiteknight well, once it merges. I need tests first
23:21 jsut joined #parrot
23:22 Tene_ nice
23:27 dalek winxed/multi_syntax: b239fab | Whiteknight++ | t/advanced/10multi.t:
23:27 dalek winxed/multi_syntax: update multi tests
23:27 dalek winxed/multi_syntax: review: https://github.com/Whiteknig​ht/winxed/commit/b239fabb50
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23:52 dalek winxed/verbose_diagnostics: d79419f | Whiteknight++ | winxed.winxed:
23:52 dalek winxed/verbose_diagnostics: Use load_bytecode_p_s instead of the deprecated load_bytecode_s
23:52 dalek winxed/verbose_diagnostics: review: https://github.com/Whiteknig​ht/winxed/commit/d79419f9db
23:59 dalek winxed/verbose_diagnostics: e28a288 | Whiteknight++ | winxed.winxed:
23:59 dalek winxed/verbose_diagnostics: rename --verbose to --err, to be clearer and more similar to other options
23:59 dalek winxed/verbose_diagnostics: review: https://github.com/Whiteknig​ht/winxed/commit/e28a288bdf

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