Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #parrot, 2011-08-26

Parrot | source cross referenced

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Time Nick Message
00:05 dalek parrot: 4757aba | cotto++ | src/dynpmc/Defines.in:
00:05 dalek parrot: don't build the Select dynpmc on window for now
00:05 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/4757abad5c
00:06 ttbot Parrot 4757abad i386-linux-thread-multi make error http://tt.taptinder.org/cmdinfo/45589
00:09 kid51 cotto_work: Please re-try tt_2185 branch on Win32, with some options to Configure.pl
00:18 cotto_work kid51: doing so now
00:23 benabik cotto_work: Your commit appears to break the build.
00:31 cotto_work kid51_at_dinner: win32 fix works for me
00:31 cotto_work benabik: sad face
00:32 benabik cotto_work: If I move the comment to before the DYNPMC_TARGETS= line, it works.
00:33 cotto_work benabik: pushed
00:33 cotto_work benabik++
00:33 soh_cah_toa joined #parrot
00:33 dalek parrot: 46f0466 | cotto++ | src/dynpmc/Defines.in:
00:33 dalek parrot: fix build
00:33 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/46f0466152
00:34 cotto_work kid51_at_dinner: any objections to merging that thing?
00:35 benabik Hm.  select.t appears to leave README2 behind in the root.  That seems poor.
00:35 cotto_work lta
00:36 cotto_work droppings--
00:40 cotto_work I'm having second thoughts about letting the select branch into master.
00:44 cotto_work not building on win32 is a significant black mark
00:48 Coke joined #parrot
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01:52 kid51 Coke ping
01:56 cotto_work kid51: you mind if I merge the relcheck branch?
01:56 cotto_work tt_2185
01:57 kid51 I don't care, but since Coke both created and took the ticket, I was trying to catch him
01:58 kid51 But I don't see that anything more needs to be done in branch
01:59 cotto_work good enough for me
02:00 dalek parrot: 448bcca | cotto++ | / (4 files):
02:00 dalek parrot: Merge branch 'tt_2185'
02:00 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/448bcca901
02:00 cotto_work pushed and deleted
02:02 cotto_work coke++ and kid51++ for working on it
02:02 dalek TT #2185 closed by cotto++: "nmake release" fails on windows
02:02 dalek TT #2185: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/2185
02:02 cotto_work trac-- for not letting me modify that ticket, then taking me to another page from which I also couldn't modify the ticket.
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02:28 dalek parrot/all-hll-test: 6dc901f | cotto++ | tools/dev/all_hll_test.pl:
02:28 dalek parrot/all-hll-test: add a mostly hard-coded script to build and test Rakudo and nqp
02:28 dalek parrot/all-hll-test: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/6dc901fadf
02:46 Coke cotto_work: if you tested that target, then that's fine with me, cloes away.
02:55 PacoLinux joined #parrot
03:09 cotto ~~
03:10 cotto cotto, I did, so good.
05:00 nbrown joined #parrot
05:23 cotto (our build)--
05:23 * cotto just spend 30 minutes chasing down the fact that he needed to run pmcrenumber after removing a PMC.
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07:08 cotto dukeleto, ping
07:13 cotto dukeleto, unping
07:24 dngor joined #parrot
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08:11 mikehh cotto: ping
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09:00 cotto mikehh, pong
09:08 woosley left #parrot
09:29 cotto mikehh, sleeping now.
09:29 cotto 'night
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11:48 atrodo =~
12:07 whiteknight joined #parrot
12:08 whiteknight good morning, #parrot
12:08 whiteknight weird. For once I don't have any messages
12:08 tadzik good afternoon whiteknight
12:08 whiteknight hello tadzik
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12:49 bubaflub ~
12:53 woosley joined #parrot
12:54 whiteknight good morning, bubaflub
12:54 bubaflub morning whiteknight
12:55 bubaflub any update on the housing situation?
12:56 whiteknight bubaflub: We put in an offer on a new house on monday. On tuesday morning we heard that the seller had too many emotional attachments to the house and was going to keep it as a rental property
12:56 bubaflub whiteknight: aghjkdhsagjasdhlgjhasdlgh
12:56 whiteknight so we're up to 7 houses that we've put bids in on, but lost
12:56 bubaflub that's frustrating
12:57 whiteknight yessir. "Frustrating" is the word I would use
13:05 coke joined #parrot
13:05 kthakore bubaflub: you pingd?
13:05 bubaflub kthakore: i did?
13:05 COKE_WORK seen dukeleto?
13:05 aloha dukeleto was last seen in #parrot 14 hours 14 mins ago saying "msg Coke I am getting more spam about your gsoc final eval not being done".
13:05 COKE_WORK seen whiteknight?
13:05 aloha whiteknight was last seen in #parrot 8 mins 27 seconds ago saying "yessir. "Frustrating" is the word I would use".
13:05 whiteknight I've seen him. Handsome fella
13:05 kthakore bubaflub: aghjkdhsagjasdhlgjha 'SDL'
13:06 kthakore gh
13:06 whiteknight Good morning COKE_WORK. how are you today?
13:06 COKE_WORK meh.
13:06 kthakore bubaflub: I am like a genie. You said the magic word. What do you want?
13:06 COKE_WORK still need to fill out the GSOC paperwork. I have ... just under 5 hours.
13:06 whiteknight COKE_WORK: at least you should be far enough from the hurricane that your weekend won't suck too badly
13:09 COKE_WORK yay. we have family drama that is hurricane related, but everyone should be fine.
13:09 COKE_WORK er, "yah"
13:09 dalek winxed: 665f3a2 | NotFound++ | winxedst1.winxed:
13:09 dalek winxed: tiny refactor of NewExpr classes
13:09 dalek winxed: review: https://github.com/NotFoun​d/winxed/commit/665f3a23dc
13:10 atrodo I've never known too many people to yell with their nick
13:10 whiteknight atrodo: Caps lock is cruise control for awesome
13:10 atrodo whiteknight++ that is so true
13:19 ligne the build currently seems to be failing with g++.  is this a known problem?
13:19 ligne src/pmc/filehandle.c:1200:37: error: ‘Parrot_io_async’ was not declared in this scope
13:20 nbrown joined #parrot
13:28 whiteknight do we have a Parrot_io_async?
13:40 jsut_ joined #parrot
13:44 ligne there's one in src/platform/generic/io.c
13:44 ligne and a windows one in src/platform/win32/io.c
13:44 ligne it's not in any headers though
13:54 whiteknight that might be a new addition from the Select PMC
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14:48 * COKE_WORK needs a beer.
14:48 * COKE_WORK will fix this when beer o'clock rolls around.
14:50 atrodo really, isn't always beer o'clock?
14:50 atrodo plus, is very disappointed that COKE_WORK doesn't yell all the time
14:51 whiteknight in real life, he isn't so aggressive
14:51 COKE_WORK be. aggressive. be. be. aggressive.
14:52 COKE_WORK Hey, can anyone here draw tiny flags? I need about a dozen of them, and will beer you.
14:59 mikehh Hey parroteers: I had to install Windows 7 (64 bit) for a project I am working on, What do you need to test parrot on it?
14:59 mikehh and where do you get it?
15:00 cotto mikehh, http://trac.parrot.org/par​rot/wiki/Platforms/Windows
15:00 cotto was that what you pinged me about?
15:01 mikehh cotto: Yeah
15:01 cotto there you go
15:03 mikehh cotto: I couldn't find that - I looked
15:04 mikehh cotto: I have a TechNet install and Active State Perl - will that work?
15:06 cotto technet?
15:06 cotto I don't know about activestate perl either way.  Can you document what happens?
15:07 mikehh I got a licence from TechNet for Windows 7 Ultimate (64 bit) and Office
15:08 mikehh as part of the project I am working on
15:08 cotto mikehh, I'm sorry to hear that.  I'm glad you're making the most of it. :)
15:09 mikehh Hopefully I can find some time to work on parrot in the next week or so (been seriously busy with the project)
15:11 mikehh Have had to run some Windows only programs for it - MathCad for instance (don't really like it but it is required on the project)
15:44 dmalcolm joined #parrot
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16:04 COKE-WORK joined #parrot
16:44 * COKE-WORK yawns.
16:47 contingencyplan joined #parrot
16:52 ambs joined #parrot
16:53 COKE-WORK MANAMANAH
16:53 COKE-WORK DO DOOO DO DOO
16:53 COKE-WORK MANAMANAH
16:53 COTTO OHAI
16:56 whiteknight why is everybody yelling?
16:57 atrodo CAPS LOCK IS CRUISE CONTROL FOR AWESOME
16:57 atrodo sorry, my bad
16:57 ATRODO CAPS LOCK IS CRUISE CONTROL FOR AWESOME
16:58 cotto THAT'S BETTER
17:03 COKE-WORK I'd like to get tt_2184 merged today.
17:03 COKE-WORK I think NotFound++ fixed the last crow issue.
17:03 whiteknight what's that ticket about?
17:03 COKE-WORK killing ChangeL^WNEWS
17:04 whiteknight awesome
17:04 cotto +1
17:04 COKE-WORK one less thing to futz with.
17:04 * cotto hands coke a match and some lighter fluid
17:04 cotto use them wisely
17:05 AzureStone joined #parrot
17:07 whiteknight less things to futz with is more awesome
17:08 * COKE-WORK hopes all the parotteers on the east coast will take care this weekend.
17:08 cotto removing thread stuff gets me a pretty segfaulty parrot
17:09 whiteknight yeah, it's going to take some work. There's a lot more to remove than you would expect
17:10 whiteknight COKE-WORK: yeah, I've already gotten earthquaked. I'm not pumped about getting hurricaned
17:10 cotto yeah.  I started a new branch to remove the gunk in a more piecemeal fashion, but even that's less easy than I'd expect.
17:12 COKE-WORK we have mentors slotted for the GSOC mentor summit, yes?
17:12 COKE-WORK (that is to say: I ain't going?)
17:13 cotto dukeleto and I are on the list afaik
17:13 cotto I've got my hotel room booked
17:13 COKE-WORK full up then, hokay. be awesome.
17:13 * cotto prepares for awesome-being
17:17 dalek rakudo/nom: 2742f6d | moritz++ | src/binder/multidispatch.c:
17:17 dalek rakudo/nom: fix memory leaks, patch by mls++
17:17 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/2742f6dd2c
17:17 COKE-WORK ooh, that's nice.
17:32 dukeleto COKE-WORK: WHAT IS WITH ALL THE CAPS?
17:34 whiteknight they have to speak up over the ambient server noise
17:38 COKE-WORK this fan in my office is really loud.
17:38 atrodo no matter how many lowercases COKE-WORK uses, i think he's yelling
17:39 COKE-WORK you'll be rid of me soon enough.
17:40 moritz note that this isn't the big memory leak (I fear)
17:41 COKE-WORK every bit helps.
17:42 COKE-WORK I'm happy that was a rakudo leak and not a parrot one! ;)
17:43 whiteknight don't worry, there will be plenty of new leaks when we merge 6model into parrot core
17:44 whiteknight let's enjoy this calm before the storm
17:44 whiteknight actually, if I'm barracaded in my house this weekend, maybe I'll start work on that project
17:45 whiteknight rip out threads, prototype some sandboxing stuff, and start merging in 6model
17:45 moritz whiteknight: do you plan to do it like in nqp, where 6model coexists with the current parrot thingy?
17:45 atrodo write a new gc? maybe write a new threading model?
17:46 moritz and then gradually rewrite PMCs to be 6modelish?
17:46 whiteknight moritz: At first it will be in parallel, just like NQP
17:47 whiteknight I want to do it the same way as NQP, so the transition to get NQP running on it instead of on its own version will be smoother
17:47 whiteknight internally we will start rewriting Object, Class, and PMCProxy to start using 6model instead of the current garbage
17:47 whiteknight then, the rest of the PMC types. We can do it piecemeal
17:48 cotto whiteknight, do you think there'd be any benefit in letting nine rip out the old threading code since he has some interest in making it shinier?
17:48 atrodo cotto> I would say yes.  Ripping things out can really help in understanding where the little tendrils go
17:49 whiteknight cotto: In theory it's a good idea, but it's pretty well wedged in there. We have to make fixes to src/interp/*, src/exception.c, src/scheduler.c, etc
17:49 COKE-WORK in a branch, please. ;)
17:49 COKE-WORK right, but if he has tuits, let him at it.
17:49 whiteknight okay, if nine wants to do it, I'll definitely be available to answer questions and double-check work
17:50 whiteknight I don't feel like removing the  current threading system is going to be too educational about what Parrot is all about or where we want to go
17:50 whiteknight but, i'm nto going to tell others how to spend their tuits
17:50 cotto Sure.  We'd help as much as he wants.
17:50 whiteknight I can't even adequately manage my own, with all the projects I keep volunteering for
17:50 cotto nine, ping
17:51 cotto I'm not saying we should force him.  Just give him the option.
17:53 cotto not sure how we'd "force" him anyway. ;)
17:54 * COKE-WORK ponders writing one time perl script to hand roll SQL for a CF app.
17:54 atrodo All you need is an address and a sack of oranges
17:54 * COKE-WORK hopes that wasn't directed at him! ;)
17:55 cotto a sack of oranges sounds great, depending on how it's used
17:56 whiteknight but then the oranges get all smooshy and sticky
17:56 * whiteknight is suddenly jonesing for an orange
17:56 atrodo mission accomplished
17:56 cotto aloha, atrodo?
17:57 aloha cotto: Search me, bub.
17:57 whiteknight aloha: whiteknight?
17:57 aloha whiteknight: whiteknight is The Count
17:57 cotto aloha, atrodo is a secret employee of the orange lobby
17:57 aloha cotto: Okay.
17:57 whiteknight ah ah ah
17:57 atrodo :)
17:57 whiteknight thats TWO factoids in aloha that are false! ah ah ah
18:01 whiteknight I've been watching way too much sesame street
18:01 cotto happens to everyone
18:01 whiteknight my kid has this adorable shirt that says "Everything I know, I learned on the street", and there's a picture of Bert with sunglasses
18:02 whiteknight my kid is totally gangster
18:03 whiteknight joined #parrot
18:06 dalek nqp: 0bfcef6 | moritz++ | src/6model/multi_dispatch.c:
18:06 dalek nqp: fix a multi dispatch memory leak, patch by mls++
18:06 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/0bfcef6d54
18:08 whiteknight I would really really really like to fix Parrot's MMD system in the near future
18:09 whiteknight seeing other projects with decent mmd always makes me jealous
18:14 moritz I guess parrot initially tried to provide enough semantics for Perl 6 MMD
18:15 moritz and then failed, but still did too much, and did much at call time
18:17 whiteknight right
18:17 whiteknight people kept jamming new functionality into places that couldn't handle it
18:18 whiteknight now, we have the packfile loader building multis at packfile load time, and the MultiSub is just an array that does almost nothing related to being a sub or doing dispatch
18:18 whiteknight All the sorting is done by the MMD system which doesn't keep state so there is no caching done. Every time we dispatch we need to re-sort the entire candidates list
18:19 whiteknight And we have Subs which keep track of their own multisignature, so a Sub can't have more than one, and subclasses of MultiSub can't use different storage semantics
18:19 whiteknight basically, every single part of Parrot MMD that can be done wrong, was done wrong
18:20 whiteknight oh, and string-based class names in multi signatures, so we can't dispatch based on things like anonymous classes, or classes with names that have changed since the multi was created, or classes that don't stringify very well, etc
18:21 whiteknight and we can't do some even very basic things, like dispatching by role, or dispatching based on data contents
18:24 atrodo wow
18:25 whiteknight Imagine adding some basic caching to multisub dispatches. Better yet, add in some PIC and do site caching with type inference
18:26 whiteknight Oh, we also can't dispatch to subs based on the types of named parameters, based on optional parameters, with slurpy parameter lists, etc
18:27 whiteknight so all those cool features that PCC has suddenly can't be intelligently used if we invoke the wrong kind of Sub
18:28 whiteknight One thing the system does have going for it is a textbook implementation of a manhattan sort, even if some of the heuristics used are faulty
18:29 atrodo manhattan sort?
18:29 dukeleto atrodo: manhattan distance
18:29 atrodo dukeleto> thanks
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19:11 Eclesia joined #parrot
19:11 Eclesia hi
19:14 whiteknight hello Eclesia
19:15 whiteknight Eclesia: The eria page on sourceforge can't be found
19:16 Eclesia whiteknight: you mean using a search engine ?
19:16 whiteknight http://sourceforge.net/projects/eria/
19:17 whiteknight Eria shows up on the sourceforge search, but I go to the page and it doesn't work
19:17 Eclesia whiteknight: there : http://sourceforge.net/p/eria/
19:18 whiteknight oh, much better
19:19 Eclesia whiteknight: there are not much things useable in the project. I worked more on the module system then the code parser
19:20 jsut joined #parrot
19:20 Eclesia I was searching for a solution for fixed size number. and bubaflub give the solution ^^ s I'll be able to improve the code parser
19:21 whiteknight oh, nice
19:21 whiteknight I'm playing with some of your reflection ideas in a new Rosella library
19:26 Eclesia whiteknight: ha? added some interesting thing ?
19:27 whiteknight a few things I'm playing with: https://github.com/Whiteknight/Rosel​la/tree/master/src/unstable/reflect
19:29 whiteknight I'm going to start adding tools for building and modifying classes too
19:31 Eclesia whiteknight: ho, you mean if I create a new Rosella.Refect.Class, properly configure it, I might be able to compile it ?
19:31 whiteknight probably something else. I don't know what the interface will be
19:32 whiteknight var builder = new Rosella.Reflect.ClassBuilder("ClassName");
19:32 whiteknight var class_obj = builder.build()
19:32 whiteknight something like that
19:32 Eclesia looks like my project :p
19:32 whiteknight ah, I knew i was getting a good idea from somewhere
19:32 whiteknight I won't try to do it if you're doing it already
19:33 rohit_nsit08 joined #parrot
19:34 rohit_nsit08 hello #parrot
19:34 Eclesia if you check the project, you'll see classes for all types, class, reference, declaration, instanciation, .... all objects to describe a class
19:34 Eclesia that's the 'paradygm' module
19:34 whiteknight hello rohit_nsit08
19:36 whiteknight I hadn't seen all this stuff before
19:36 COKE-WORK whiteknight: is there a documented plan of attack on the 6model stuff?
19:36 COKE-WORK something I could start attacking in a branch?
19:36 rohit_nsit08 whiteknight: hello . I got an e-mail regarding failure of my project ,  so I wanted a feedback for carrying on my work further as I think I can finish it after some better understanding
19:37 preflex joined #parrot
19:37 whiteknight COKE-WORK: honestly, no. Certainly not what I am sure you would want to see
19:37 COKE-WORK whiteknight: hokay.
19:37 whiteknight COKE-WORK: the first stage of the plan is to get the source from the NQP repo moved into the parrot repo, and get it to build and work the same way
19:38 whiteknight rohit_nsit08: okay. We do want the project still
19:38 dmalcolm_ joined #parrot
19:38 whiteknight rohit_nsit08: I've been playing with jison and cafe the last two days, and have some ideas about how to proceed
19:38 COKE-WORK rohit_nsit08: best of luck. Glad to see you in channel.
19:39 whiteknight COKE-WORK: once we have it working the same way as it does in NQP, we can start integrating it better into parrot core, and start changing other stuff like Object.pmc and Class.pmc to use it internally
19:40 whiteknight COKE-WORK: The first step is pretty monolithic, because it compiles or it doesn't. I'm sure I'm going to need somebody to double-check my makefile work and the like
19:41 COKE-WORK I can do makefile scutwork.
19:42 * moritz can occasionally compile with 'make -j' and jell if it's broken
19:42 moritz that's a surprisingly good test at times :-)
19:42 rohit_nsit08 COKE-WORK: thanks. sorry to ask but was that the final review or something still can be done about that? because I really want to get this project finish it is only this recruitment process that is keeping me busy .
19:43 whiteknight rohit_nsit08: that was the final evaluation for the summer and the deadline is passed. We can still work on the code, but the grading is over
19:43 rohit_nsit08 whiteknight: hmm.. my bad :-(
19:44 dmalcolm__ joined #parrot
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19:46 rohit_nsit08 COKE-WORK: can we have a discussion tomorrow regarding the points of failure so that I can know the areas I need to focus from now ?
19:48 whiteknight rohit_nsit08: I can have a meeting with you, if COKE-WORK is busy
19:48 rohit_nsit08 whiteknight: ya sure, that will also do .
19:49 rohit_nsit08 than I think we can have it right now, if you are not busy
19:52 whiteknight I have 30 minutes, if that's enough
19:53 whiteknight and do you want to talk in channel, or private message?
19:53 tcurtis ~~
19:53 whiteknight hello tcurtis
19:54 tcurtis hello, whiteknight
19:54 whiteknight tcurtis: I still need to get that walkthrough from you about lalrskate. You around tonight or this weekend?
19:58 preflex joined #parrot
20:07 Eclesia question : knowing the path "some.path.to.var" how can I get the pmc related ?
20:07 whiteknight Eclesia: what do you mean?
20:08 Eclesia whiteknight: I set a pmc at a given namespace position using  :  set_global
20:08 Eclesia know I would like to acces it
20:08 whiteknight $P0 = get_global ns, "name"
20:09 Eclesia any winxed shortcut ?
20:09 whiteknight $P0 = get_global ["some"; "path"; "to"], "var"
20:09 whiteknight I don't think so. How did you set it?
20:09 Eclesia in pir :D
20:10 tcurtis whiteknight: I may be able to talk tonight; I will definitely be able to do so at some point this weekend.
20:10 whiteknight tcurtis: okay. Now that final evaluations are out, I don't have any more leverage over you :) Whenever you're free I would appreciate it
20:11 whiteknight I'll probably be trapped indoors for much of the weekend
20:12 COKE-WORK coworker just suggested getting cash, gas, and water.
20:13 mj41 joined #parrot
20:13 soh_cah_toa good. plenty of time to work on a new debug pmc ;)
20:13 whiteknight soh_cah_toa: I was worried for a bit that you weren't going to do that final evaluation
20:14 whiteknight don't scare us like that!
20:14 soh_cah_toa :)
20:14 soh_cah_toa i got distracted
20:28 whiteknight no more distractions. You're almost a full-fledged parrot contributor now! All you have left to do is survive the trials
20:28 whiteknight you have to pick up a construction cone with your legs, without using your hands, and walk it through an obstacle course of my own design
20:32 cotto I remember having to do that.
20:33 Eclesia hm .. I think I'll pass
20:35 soh_cah_toa :)
21:24 NotFound Eclesia: with the latest revision, you can use the namespace operator and keyed acces in it.
21:25 NotFound Soemthing like: (namespace ["some","path","to"])["var"]
21:26 Eclesia NotFound: and that return a class/function/pmc ? (depends what he find at this place)
21:27 NotFound Eclesia: that depends on the namespace PMC, not on winxed.
21:27 NotFound I think vars are prioritary,
21:28 Eclesia ok
21:29 Eclesia NotFound: changing topic : did you added whiteknight commit on concatenate namespace declaration ?
21:29 Eclesia to avoid : namespace n1 { namespace n2 { ...
21:30 NotFound Eclesia: yes, and you can do the same with class, too.
21:31 Eclesia Not the same with class ?
21:31 not_gerd joined #parrot
21:31 not_gerd hello, #parrot
21:37 NotFound Eclesia: class Foo.Bar is a shortcut for. namespace Foo { class Bar
21:39 Eclesia NotFound: hm... it might be a bit confusing. like for example : namespace NS1 {  class NS2.User  .     what will be the class namespace ? NS1.NS2. User or NS2.User ?
21:45 Eclesia NotFound: what is the result ? I suspect it's the first but not sure
21:46 NotFound The same as the long version, nested into the enclosing namespace.
21:47 NotFound I must add a test that verifies and exemplifies it.
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22:40 kid51 ~~
22:42 kid51 Are GSOC results publicly available?
22:43 kid51 We should publish a summary on www.parrot.org
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23:55 Tene joined #parrot

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