Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #parrot, 2011-11-29

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Time Nick Message
00:03 dalek Rosella/random_1: 3777857 | Whiteknight++ | / (13 files):
00:03 dalek Rosella/random_1: Add the random library back in, I don't know how it got deleted
00:03 dalek Rosella/random_1: review: https://github.com/Whiteknig​ht/Rosella/commit/3777857e32
00:03 dalek Rosella/random_1: 2b5f93e | Whiteknight++ | t/ (4 files):
00:03 dalek Rosella/random_1: fix weird conflicts
00:03 dalek Rosella/random_1: review: https://github.com/Whiteknig​ht/Rosella/commit/2b5f93e1cf
00:04 dalek Rosella: 3777857 | Whiteknight++ | / (13 files):
00:04 dalek Rosella: Add the random library back in, I don't know how it got deleted
00:04 dalek Rosella: review: https://github.com/Whiteknig​ht/Rosella/commit/3777857e32
00:04 dalek Rosella: 2b5f93e | Whiteknight++ | t/ (4 files):
00:04 dalek Rosella: fix weird conflicts
00:04 dalek Rosella: review: https://github.com/Whiteknig​ht/Rosella/commit/2b5f93e1cf
00:04 dalek Rosella: e246fdf | Whiteknight++ | / (7 files):
00:04 dalek Rosella: Merge branch 'random_1'
00:04 dalek Rosella: review: https://github.com/Whiteknig​ht/Rosella/commit/e246fdff63
00:19 dalek Rosella: 9835c47 | Whiteknight++ | src/random/randomnumber/MersenneTwister.winxed:
00:19 dalek Rosella: Fix MersenneTwister.get_float()
00:19 dalek Rosella: review: https://github.com/Whiteknig​ht/Rosella/commit/9835c47ec4
00:19 dalek Rosella: b40470d | Whiteknight++ | src/random/randomnumber/BoxMullerNormal.winxed:
00:19 dalek Rosella: last fix for BoxMuller, all tests pass
00:19 dalek Rosella: review: https://github.com/Whiteknig​ht/Rosella/commit/b40470da36
00:44 dalek website: NotFound++ | Guitor Hero
00:44 dalek website: http://www.parrot.org/content/guitor-hero
01:00 * whiteknight has another project to watch on github now
01:00 whiteknight thanks alot, NotFound
01:00 dukeleto msg NotFound don't forget to add a post-receive-url to Guitor to we get irc notifications :)
01:00 aloha OK. I'll deliver the message.
01:12 whiteknight dukeleto: I have a link you might find very interesting: http://www.scottaaronson.com/blog/?p=839
01:12 whiteknight actually, I'm finding it very interesting
01:13 woosley joined #parrot
01:17 NotFound The problem with Xlib and NCI is the error callbacks. I'm thinking about adding a new callback mechanism into parrot, better than requiring bits of c for any library with the same issue.
01:19 whiteknight our callbacks have always been lacking
01:19 NotFound (without setting an error callback, any Xlib program can die for trivial issues)
01:22 cotto NotFound: please do.  You're guaranteed not to be the last person who'll want a better callback mechanism.
01:39 davidfetter joined #parrot
01:39 dukeleto NotFound: why Xlib and not something more sane?
01:39 dalek Rosella: d2fa7e3 | Whiteknight++ | t/commandline/ (3 files):
01:39 dalek Rosella: A few commandline test updates
01:39 dalek Rosella: review: https://github.com/Whiteknig​ht/Rosella/commit/d2fa7e33f7
01:39 dalek Rosella: 6345a20 | Whiteknight++ | / (9 files):
01:39 dalek Rosella: CommandLine is stable
01:39 dalek Rosella: review: https://github.com/Whiteknig​ht/Rosella/commit/6345a20924
01:42 dukeleto whiteknight: hilarious
01:43 dukeleto whiteknight: poor mathematicians slaving over the third decimal in an exponent
01:44 whiteknight dukeleto: what would be far more important would be an algorithm specifically tailored to vectorized instruction sets and parallelized execution cores
01:45 cotto Is that an interesting result for people who care?
01:46 dukeleto cotto: for the people that care, yes. Basically, whoever can prove the lowest bound on any CS algorithm is the cool kid on the block
01:46 dukeleto cotto: but in practice, none of it really matters. the matrices that would be effected by those results have more rows/cols than there are atoms in the universe
01:46 cotto fsvo "cool"
01:47 cotto ok.  I figured it was something on that order of interestingness.
01:47 cotto I'm glad they have something to get excited about.
01:48 dukeleto cotto: academics need something to care about, because they surely don't care about reality
01:50 dukeleto cotto: my advisor told me once: People fight tooth and nail in academia becaues the stakes are so low.
01:56 NotFound dukeleto: something more sane? Like what?
01:56 cotto dukeleto: I guess so.
01:58 NotFound We can start up a charity: "More atoms for our universe"
01:59 NotFound Our mathematicians have not enough atoms, please support them.
02:01 benabik joined #parrot
02:07 dalek Heuristic branch merge: pushed 17 commits to parrot/documentation_revisions by ayardley
02:09 cotto NotFound: sure, but where will you find a donor?
02:09 cotto What if all the people in other universes are jerks?
02:11 NotFound cotto: doesn't matter, just let people send money and we'll manage to find something to do with it ;)
02:26 dukeleto NotFound: anything is more sane than Xlib. Cairo?
02:37 dalek Rosella: 5d198e4 | Whiteknight++ | src/unstable/dumper/ (4 files):
02:37 dalek Rosella: Several tweaks and fixes to the dumper library. Fix the way several things print. Filter out some excess whitespace. Try to call get_string on objects, and include that output
02:37 dalek Rosella: review: https://github.com/Whiteknig​ht/Rosella/commit/5d198e4721
02:57 cotto ~~
03:26 dalek rakudo/nom: 51838a5 | coke++ | t/spectest.data:
03:26 dalek rakudo/nom: run fudged tests  (yay!)
03:26 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/51838a5258
03:31 alvis evening #parrot
03:32 alvis has anyone tried http://parrot.github.com/ lately?
03:32 alvis I get a "Page does not exist!" message.
03:33 dukeleto alvis: i get the same
03:33 dukeleto something is borked
03:33 cotto alvis, I saw that earlier too
03:34 alvis dukeleto & cotto:  Any ideas?  I haven't changed anything.
03:34 dukeleto hmmm. let me kick the tires
03:35 alvis dukeleto: k.
03:35 dalek parrot.github.com: 2021636 | dukeleto++ | README.pod:
03:35 dalek parrot.github.com: Refactor the readme
03:35 dalek parrot.github.com: review: https://github.com/parrot/parro​t.github.com/commit/2021636836
03:35 Yuki`N joined #parrot
03:35 Yuki`N Leaderboards up -- results are clear:
03:36 dukeleto Huh. that didn't fix it.
03:36 Yuki`N I got the message
03:36 Yuki`N dukeleto, have you seen the leaderboards?
03:36 Yuki`N 2 of the top 3 are being mentored by jumpyshoes
03:36 Yuki`N And this looks suspiciously similar to jumpyshoes last year: http://www.google-melange.com/gci/stu​dent_tasks/google/gci2011/lionaneesh
03:37 dukeleto Yuki`N: nope
03:38 dukeleto alvis: just contacted Github support about parrot.github.com
03:38 dukeleto Yuki`N: looks like task farming to me.
03:38 Yuki`N indeed.
03:38 Yuki`N all of the top 3 look to be farming tasks.
03:38 alvis dukeleto: Ok, that was my *first* thought.  Let me know please.
03:38 dukeleto Yuki`N: i guess we care more about quality than quantity here.
03:39 Yuki`N I suppose so.
03:39 Yuki`N I took a look at creating parrot-nacl
03:39 Yuki`N seems like a bit more than one task, imo.
03:40 Yuki`N I mean, it's definitely doable, but I'd have to create the build system from scratch and write all the boilerplate documentation.
03:40 dukeleto Yuki`N: sure. That can be split into different tasks. That task is basically to get it started
03:40 dukeleto Yuki`N: don't worry about the documentation and steal the build from parrot-gmp or parrot-libgit2
03:41 dukeleto Yuki`N: the easy math-parrot-primality tasks are needed to accomplish the hard task you commented on
03:41 dukeleto Yuki`N: i should have made that clearer
03:41 Yuki`N oh
03:42 dukeleto Yuki`N: basically, prime_count() has to call is_prime(), and the other 3 tasks that are easier are needed to implement is_prime()
03:42 Yuki`N alright!
03:42 Yuki`N I shall do all of them
03:43 dukeleto Yuki`N: i think you will have fun!
03:43 Yuki`N I shall first print out that math paper and read it during school tomorrow.
03:43 dukeleto Yuki`N: :)
03:43 Yuki`N I have to build parrot with gmp to get bigint support, right?
03:43 dukeleto Yuki`N: i read the paper a few days ago. Please let me know if anything doesn't make sense.
03:43 dukeleto Yuki`N: yes
03:43 dukeleto Yuki`N: do you want me to approve you for the hard task? Or can you still ask for the other tasks to be assigned?
03:44 Yuki`N I'll start with the easier tasks.
03:44 khisanth_ joined #parrot
03:44 dukeleto Yuki`N: the is_small_prime() task should only take you 5 minutes
03:44 dukeleto Yuki`N: the others shouldn't be longer than a few hours unless you hit an odd bug in winxed or something
03:45 Yuki`N somehow, I remember looking at this perl library for some tasks last year.
03:45 dukeleto Yuki`N: math--primality was a gsoc project
03:45 Yuki`N I feel like I did something with it last year...perhaps implementing RSA in PIR?
03:46 dukeleto Yuki`N: it will be very interesting to benchmark these algorithms in Perl 5 vs. Winxed
03:46 dukeleto Yuki`N: i think you worked on sha256 last year, in PIR, iirc
03:46 Yuki`N hmm
03:46 Yuki`N well sha doesn't use primality at all.
03:46 dukeleto but i could be misremembering
03:46 dukeleto Yuki`N: no, it doesn't :)
03:46 Yuki`N I did work on SHA.
03:46 dukeleto Yuki`N: do you need me to approve you for the is_small_prime task?
03:46 Yuki`N I do remember I used these libraries for something.
03:46 Yuki`N Sure.
03:46 dukeleto Yuki`N: can you paste the url in here?
03:47 Yuki`N http://www.google-melange.com/gci​/task/view/google/gci2011/7172291
03:48 dukeleto Yuki`N: done!
03:48 Yuki`N alright
03:48 Yuki`N are we namespacing this at all?
03:48 Yuki`N Perhaps Math::Primality?
03:48 dukeleto Yuki`N: yep
03:49 dukeleto Yuki`N: _is_small_prime is an internal function in the perl 5 module, but i think it is reasonable to make this a public function
03:49 dukeleto Yuki`N: it speeds things up greatly by filtering out small primes and not doing expensive stuff
03:50 dukeleto Yuki`N: beware, setup.winxed does very little :)
03:50 dukeleto Yuki`N: extra points if you make it better :)
03:50 dukeleto Yuki`N: but just implementing is_small_prime with 2 trivial tests will be fine.
03:50 Yuki`N alright
03:50 Yuki`N did you check out the changes I made to the Makefile in libgit?
04:06 dalek parrot/documentation_revisions: 50068bb | (Alvis Yardley)++ | docs/TODO_revisions:
04:06 dalek parrot/documentation_revisions: Minor edits.
04:06 dalek parrot/documentation_revisions: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/50068bbfab
04:09 Yuki`N dukeleto, I can't figure out a good way to do small prime checking exactly the same way it does in Perl.
04:09 Yuki`N Since perl allows indexes to be specified when initializing an array.
04:33 Yuki`N whiteknight, ping
04:35 Yuki`N never mind.
04:47 Yuki`N dukeleto, task submitted for review http://www.google-melange.com/gci​/task/view/google/gci2011/7172291
04:55 dalek parrot/documentation_revisions: 79887ff | (Alvis Yardley)++ | / (2 files):
04:55 dalek parrot/documentation_revisions: Deleted README.
04:55 dalek parrot/documentation_revisions: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/79887ff021
04:55 dalek parrot/documentation_revisions: 10fd17f | (Alvis Yardley)++ | README.pod:
04:55 dalek parrot/documentation_revisions: Added new README.pod
04:55 dalek parrot/documentation_revisions: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/10fd17f325
04:55 dalek parrot/documentation_revisions: 15bea4a | (Alvis Yardley)++ | docs/readmes/README (2 files):
04:55 dalek parrot/documentation_revisions: Changed [year]-[year] to <creation_year>-<current_year>.
04:55 dalek parrot/documentation_revisions: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/15bea4ac41
04:56 dukeleto Yuki`N: looking
04:58 dukeleto Yuki`N: nice work!
04:58 dukeleto Yuki`N: just marked the task as closed, will merge later. send me the url of the next task you want and I will assign
04:58 Yuki`N alright
04:58 Yuki`N http://www.google-melange.com/gci​/task/view/google/gci2011/7174256
04:59 dukeleto Yuki`N: and thanks for adding the rosella submodule!
04:59 Yuki`N xD
04:59 Yuki`N I did a lot of work above and beyond
04:59 dukeleto Yuki`N: assigned! this one should be more fun.
04:59 Yuki`N a 1 point task. ;P
05:00 dukeleto Yuki`N: that extra work does not go unnoticed :) It might count for extra points in GCI, but that good karma will come back to you in another way.
05:00 dukeleto s/might count/might not count/
05:00 Yuki`N oh dear
05:00 dukeleto Yuki`N: :)
05:00 Yuki`N I can't access a GMP function from Parrot
05:00 Yuki`N It's not in bigint.
05:00 dukeleto Yuki`N: you should use parrot-gmp
05:00 dukeleto Yuki`N: https://github.com/bubaflub/parrot-gmp
05:01 dukeleto Yuki`N: a gsoc project from last year :)
05:01 Yuki`N MORE SUBMODULES?!
05:01 dukeleto Yuki`N: you can just assume parrot-gmp is installed for now
05:01 dukeleto Yuki`N: parrot-math-primality will require parrot-gmp to be installed
05:01 Yuki`N oh, really?
05:01 dukeleto Yuki`N: but a submodule is another choice
05:02 dukeleto Yuki`N: going for a walk, I'll be back in a bit.
05:07 rfw joined #parrot
05:43 Yuki`N dukeleto, ping
05:43 dukeleto Yuki`N: pong
05:43 dukeleto Yuki`N: good timing, just got back from my walk
05:43 Yuki`N So the pseudoprime test is finding composite numbers in the perl test data
05:44 Yuki`N can I just delete them and ignore?
05:44 dukeleto Yuki`N: please explain
05:44 Yuki`N Well, is_strong_pseudoprime.t in the perl lib has a long list of #s which should be strong pseudoprimes.
05:44 Yuki`N But some of them aren't.
05:44 dukeleto Yuki`N: oh really?
05:44 Yuki`N Because they're not prime, and the algorithm is saying that they're not prime.
05:45 Yuki`N dunno
05:46 dukeleto Yuki`N: there are different kinds of pseudoprimes, and sometimes a pseudoprime algorithm thinks a composite number is prime, because it can't tell the difference
05:46 Yuki`N well in this case the algorithm thinks the number is composite when it thinks it shouldn't.
05:46 dukeleto Yuki`N: hmmm. and you are talking about your winxed implementation or the perl 5 one?
05:47 dukeleto Yuki`N: if you find bugs in the perl 5 math::primality you definitely get extra credit!
05:47 dukeleto Yuki`N: do you have a specific example?
05:48 Yuki`N Hmm
05:48 Yuki`N I may have gotten perl's map{} wrong
05:48 Yuki`N does it go from [start, end) or [start, end]
05:48 dukeleto Yuki`N: [start, end]
05:49 Yuki`N alright, well I fixed that but it's still throwing errors
05:49 Yuki`N but with bigger numbers
05:49 dukeleto Yuki`N: it is inclusive
05:49 Yuki`N so that is a good sign
05:49 Yuki`N Alright! It passes.
05:49 Yuki`N I was going from [start, end)
05:49 dukeleto Yuki`N: you scared me for a minute. I really hope the Math::Primality test suite doesn't have bugs :)
05:49 Yuki`N xD
05:50 dukeleto Yuki`N: 'cause i remember triple checking stuff :)
05:51 Yuki`N alright, well I pushed that.
05:52 Yuki`N It's also relatively quick.
05:52 dukeleto Yuki`N: exciting!
05:53 dukeleto Yuki`N: if I had to guess/hope, the winxed implementation should fly compared to the Perl 5 version
05:53 Yuki`N Really?
05:54 Yuki`N Also it looks like lucas-pseudoprime testing is going to be a pain without tuple support.
05:54 dukeleto Yuki`N: winxed should have a lot less memory overhead
05:54 dukeleto Yuki`N: please explain. What do you mean by tuple support?
05:55 Yuki`N Tuples, e.g (a, b, c)
05:55 Yuki`N functions returning tuples, e.g function x() { return ('a', 'b', 'c'); }
05:56 dukeleto Yuki`N: winxed doesn't have tuples?
05:56 dukeleto Yuki`N: what about an array?
05:56 Yuki`N Rather sure it doesn't.
05:56 Yuki`N I suppose I could do that, but those aren't as nicely typed.
05:56 dukeleto Yuki`N: what in the lucas function wants a tuple ?
05:57 Yuki`N _find_dpq_selfridge
05:58 dukeleto oh, yes.
05:58 dukeleto Yuki`N: just use an array for now. Suboptimal, but it will get the job done.
05:58 Yuki`N Well I have to sleep now.
05:58 dukeleto Yuki`N: sleep is good!
05:59 dukeleto Yuki`N: great work for today. If you ever need a reference or recommendation in the future, you know who to ask :)
05:59 Yuki`N :P
05:59 Yuki`N that jumpyshoes -sigh-
05:59 Yuki`N submitted this task, btw, http://www.google-melange.com/gci​/task/view/google/gci2011/7174256
06:00 dukeleto Yuki`N: that has a link to the wrong pull request
06:01 dukeleto Yuki`N: it links to the is_small_prime pull request
06:01 Yuki`N well, they're both in there.
06:01 Yuki`N Github doesn't allow you to have >1 pull request open, and all new commits go to that pull request.
06:02 sorear um, can't you have more than one pull request if you have more than one branch?
06:02 sorear opbots names
06:02 dukeleto Yuki`N: blarg. no worries, i will figure it out
06:03 sorear -sigh-
06:03 sorear slavorg can't do its job unless it's opped
06:03 sorear opbots trust alvis
06:03 slavorg Ok
06:04 dukeleto Yuki`N: task closed, get some sleep.
06:04 dalek parrot/documentation_revisions: 2232a12 | (Alvis Yardley)++ | MANIFEST:
06:04 dalek parrot/documentation_revisions: Updated MANIFEST to include documentation_revisions-related stuff.
06:04 dalek parrot/documentation_revisions: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/2232a12ba9
06:04 dalek parrot/documentation_revisions: 56d2a54 | (Alvis Yardley)++ | MANIFEST.SKIP:
06:04 dalek parrot/documentation_revisions: Modified MANIFEST.SKIP to skip a working file in 'docs/revisions/'.
06:04 dalek parrot/documentation_revisions: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/56d2a54b24
06:10 alvis sorear: Does the "opbots trust ..." quieten things a'bit?
06:13 sorear alvis: no, it tells them to auto-op you,
06:13 sorear .
06:15 alvis sorear: Oh, ok.  I was hoping.  (It's a touch embarrassing to bleed-out all-over-the-place on just some branch work.)
06:24 dukeleto alvis: it is ok. We like to konw what people are up to :)
06:25 dukeleto know, even.
06:26 dukeleto alvis: you can also keep some commits local, then use something like "git rebase -i HEAD~3" to squash the last three commits into one, then push, for example.
06:26 dukeleto alvis: but you can just doing what you are now, too. It is fine.
06:30 sorear alvis: opbots means slavorg and slavorgn
06:30 sorear alvis: not dalek
06:30 alvis sorear: Ok, thanks.
06:31 alvis dukeleto: Yeah, I was just looking at that a'bit ago, but can't say I really get it, yet.
06:31 dukeleto alvis: no worries. It will all come in due time :)
06:32 alvis dukeleto: I was looking at your leto labs and saw where you're a git/github guru, so ... I got a question or two.
06:32 dukeleto alvis: oh noes! Shoot.
06:32 dukeleto alvis: i am the one to blame for converting parrot to github :)
06:33 alvis dukeleto: Ok, I've completed the README.pod and parrot.pod, a pod for the executable, and they're in my branch.
06:33 dalek rakudo/nom: 4269d73 | moritz++ | t/spectest.data:
06:33 dalek rakudo/nom: the Unicode properties regex tests need ICU
06:33 sorear alvis: dalek does what it does because it's trying to handle git stuff in a KISS way
06:33 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/4269d73e79
06:33 Tene alvis: there are quite a few people comfortable helping with git problems in the channel
06:33 alvis Now, I want to merge it into master. So, my first question is, should I?
06:34 alvis sorear: Ok. I like KISS (but maybe I need KISS-DA! :)
06:34 alvis Tene: Thanks.
06:34 sorear alvis: much of dalek's current design is my fault, btw.
06:35 * sorear is especially pleased with the splitting of responsibilities
06:35 dukeleto alvis: i hear that you want to merge a branch into the master branch, is that right?
06:36 alvis dukeleto: Yep.  I think so, but I'm looking for alternatives as well 'cause I really only want a few of the files in at this point in time.
06:37 alvis dukeleto: I should say, "Yeah, I think so ..., maybe so; I don't know."
06:38 alvis dukeleto: I think more than just the 'README.pod' needs to go in for the GCI stuff.
06:39 dukeleto alvis: so you have a few files in branch X that you want to merge into master, but not the whole branch?
06:39 alvis dukeleto: Yes.
06:40 dukeleto alvis: how many files?
06:41 alvis dukeleto: Lemme see ...
06:42 alvis dukeleto: Ok, it's three files and two directories in 'docs' with only a couple of files in each.
06:43 alvis dukeleto: Most of my work, of course, is in 'docs', so ... I don't think it'll break the build, but ....
06:44 dukeleto alvis: why don't you want to merge everything in the branch? wondering
06:44 dukeleto alvis: i can tell you how to do what you want, but not being in this situation is the easiest way to deal with it :)
06:45 alvis dukeleto: I can.  It's not a problem.  I ... just don't wanna break anything.
06:45 alvis dukeleto: ha! you're right there! :)
06:49 dukeleto alvis: basically, you can use "git checkout branch -- file" to 'checkout' versions of files from a branch
06:50 dukeleto alvis: so you would go on the master branch "git checkout master" then git checkout each file from your branch with "git checkout branchname -- filename"
06:50 dukeleto alvis: then git add the files, then commit
06:51 alvis dukeleto: i'm sorry, i'm not being clear: i have a 'documentation_revisions' branch, and i have it where i want it, for now.
06:52 alvis dukeleto: there is some stuff i want in the parrot master, e.g., 'README.pod', and stuff for the GCI, e.g., 'docs/binaries/' and 'docs/readmes/'
06:53 dukeleto alvis: i gotcha
06:54 alvis dukeleto: and i need to "push" it, but i'm a'bit concerned 'cause i haven't done that, and i don't wanna muck things up.
06:54 dukeleto alvis: but why are you mixing different kinds of things in one branch? When you do that, you can't do a simple merge, you have to do the complicated thing I described above :)
06:54 dukeleto alvis: i think there is some confusion
06:54 dukeleto alvis: you have your local copy of the branch "documentation_revisions" and you have also "pushed" it to github, yes?
06:55 alvis dukeleto: yes.
06:55 dukeleto alvis: you are asking about merging the branch into master, but you only want part of the branch, not the whole branch. That is causing all the complexity here.
06:55 alvis dukeleto: yes.
06:55 dukeleto alvis: what different things are in that branch? What is in there that you don't want merged?
06:57 alvis dukeleto: the stuff in 'docs/revisions' (but, i really am ok if it goes in; i was just trying minimize impact).
06:57 alvis dukeleto: most of the stuff in 'docs/revisions' is not ready for prime-time; it's just my working stuff.
06:58 alvis dukeleto: or ... some of it is.
07:00 alvis dukeleto: here's my thinking (if you want to call it that): the GCI students need the stuff in 'docs/binaries/' and 'docs/readmes/', all of which is my branch.
07:00 dukeleto alvis: so you created a new directory called docs/revisions ? and you have stuff in there?
07:01 alvis dukeleto: within my 'documentation_revisions' branch, yes.
07:02 alvis dukeleto: 'docs/readmes' is where i'm keeping all of the non-pod 'README's for the GCI tasks,
07:03 alvis dukeleto: and 'docs/binaries' is where the PODs for the installable binaries go.
07:03 alvis dukeleto: i've kept it all in the same branch 'cause it's all documentation related.
07:05 dukeleto alvis: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/comp​are/master...documentation_revisions
07:06 dukeleto alvis: have you run "make fulltest" on your branch?
07:06 dukeleto alvis: i would email the above link to parrot-dev and tell people you would like to merge the branch and see if anybody has any issues with that
07:06 alvis dukeleto: No, not yet.
07:06 dukeleto alvis: documentation can cause tests to fail, since some of our tests check docs-related stuff
07:07 alvis dukeleto: Ahhh .... Ok, that helps!
07:07 dukeleto alvis: and since you are moving our main README to README.pod, something might rely on the old location
07:07 dukeleto not likely, but possible
07:07 dukeleto alvis: gonna get some sleep. Feel free to send me/parrot-dev an email with any other questions concerns. And thanks for working hard to improve our docs!
07:08 * dukeleto .sleep()
07:08 alvis dukeleto: Ok, 'night (and thanks!)
07:44 dalek parrot/documentation_revisions: 4576ba2 | (Alvis Yardley)++ | docs/binaries/README.pod:
07:44 dalek parrot/documentation_revisions: Minor edit to 'docs/binaries/README.pod'.
07:44 dalek parrot/documentation_revisions: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/4576ba2a9a
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09:26 dalek rakudo/nom: c285a5e | moritz++ | src/core/Attribute.pm:
09:26 dalek rakudo/nom: fix Attribute.gist
09:26 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/c285a5e1f2
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11:34 dalek parrot: 6445248 | mls++ | / (3 files):
11:34 dalek parrot: define ids for the subprof runcores instead of using PARROT_SLOW_CORE
11:34 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/6445248171
11:34 dalek parrot: 6081fbd | mls++ | / (7 files):
11:34 dalek parrot: Add a set_runcore op to switch to a different runcore.
11:34 dalek parrot:
11:34 dalek parrot: Also support CURRENT_RUNCORE in interpinfo_s() to get the name of the current
11:34 dalek parrot: runcore.
11:34 dalek parrot: We need an extra op for the runcore switching, because we need to restart the
11:34 dalek parrot: runops() loop. This can only be done in an op at the moment.
11:34 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/6081fbdc4c
11:46 dalek nqp: ef5f94f | mls++ | / (3 files):
11:46 dalek nqp: use parrot op to switch to the profiling runcore
11:47 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/ef5f94f929
11:48 ttbot Parrot 6081fbdc MSWin32-x86-multi-thread make error http://tt.taptinder.org/cmdinfo/60678
11:57 dalek parrot: 93a98e9 | mls++ | / (2 files):
11:57 dalek parrot: move stdint include from runcore_subprof.h to subprof.c
11:57 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/93a98e9bc7
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13:01 dalek rakudo/nom: 01ac0d8 | moritz++ | src/core/ (2 files):
13:01 dalek rakudo/nom: bring Str.trans back
13:01 dalek rakudo/nom:
13:01 dalek rakudo/nom: Mostly a copy&paste from 2011.07, plus some fixes from jnthn++
13:01 dalek rakudo/nom: and a few small optimizations that avoid some box operations
13:01 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/01ac0d821b
13:01 dalek rakudo/nom: d2e4b02 | moritz++ | t/spectest.data:
13:01 dalek rakudo/nom: enable some tests for trans, as well as another test that depended on it
13:01 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/d2e4b02258
13:03 benabik o/ #parrot
13:17 whiteknight joined #parrot
13:17 whiteknight good morning, #parrot
13:18 moritz good am, wk
13:20 whiteknight hello moritz, how are you doing today?
13:24 dalek rakudo/nom: 8c9caf7 | moritz++ | src/core/Str.pm:
13:24 dalek rakudo/nom: [trans] use native str for collecting the result
13:24 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/8c9caf726e
13:26 moritz whiteknight: I'm ok, hacking on rakudo a bit
13:27 whiteknight moritz: I've been watching lots of exciting progress on Rakudo in the last few days.
13:27 whiteknight I'm really itching to try porting some of that stuff down into Parrot
13:27 moritz whiteknight: I haven't been involved with the most interesting part of it (the NCI stuff)
13:28 whiteknight yeah, it really looks like many of the NCI changes are things Parrot probably wants
13:28 whiteknight especially if it's set up to work closely with 6model, which we still need to port
13:28 moritz though note that nqp bundles the 'dyncall' library
13:28 moritz in the past, parrot bundled libs too
13:29 moritz then they were thrown out
13:29 whiteknight yeah, we need to re-think that policy
13:29 moritz not sure what the current policy is
13:29 whiteknight we don't have a current policy, I don't think, but are certainly open to suggestion
13:29 whiteknight I, for instance, don't see any particular reason why we wouldn't bundle ICU
13:29 moritz +1
13:30 whiteknight considering how important ICU is for Rakudo, and how ungracefully we fail if we don't have it
13:30 moritz the non-bundled version is said to be a PITA to get working on windows
13:30 moritz same for FFI (which is why we don't use it in nqp/rakudo)
13:30 moritz same for GMP (same here, we use libtommath instead)
13:31 whiteknight native call is such a huge pain, and Parrot's default fallback (pre-generated thunks) are so ugly and limited. It makes no sense that we wouldn't try to bundle something
13:31 whiteknight we could bundle multiple options, and pick the ones that work best on each platform
13:38 whiteknight We're almost certain to want to bundle at least one library to help with threading and concurrency. There's no sane platform-independent way for us to have things like atomic operations and locks without library help
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14:41 dalek rakudo/nom: 8716958 | coke++ | t/spectest.data:
14:41 dalek rakudo/nom: run fudged test
14:41 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/8716958ed9
14:45 bluescreen joined #parrot
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15:33 dukeleto ~~
15:34 whiteknight hello dukeleto
15:36 dukeleto whiteknight: wazzup
15:37 whiteknight not much duke, you?
15:37 dalek parrot-math-primality: b277ed6 | Yuki`N++ | / (11 files):
15:37 dalek parrot-math-primality: Build system is about 20% cooler. Expanded basic winxed test harness. Added and tested is_small_prime. Added rosella as submodule for dependencies.
15:37 dalek parrot-math-primality: review: https://github.com/letolabs/parrot​-math-primality/commit/b277ed6c6e
15:37 dalek parrot-math-primality: 0695c1c | Yuki`N++ | / (6 files):
15:37 dalek parrot-math-primality: Remove and ignore intermediates. Add is_strong_pseudoprime.
15:37 dalek parrot-math-primality: review: https://github.com/letolabs/parrot​-math-primality/commit/0695c1c029
15:37 dalek parrot-math-primality: 030ff29 | dukeleto++ | / (9 files):
15:37 dalek parrot-math-primality: Merge pull request #2 from nol888/master
15:37 dalek parrot-math-primality:
15:37 dalek parrot-math-primality: Add and test is_small_prime.
15:37 dalek parrot-math-primality: review: https://github.com/letolabs/parrot​-math-primality/commit/030ff29a17
15:38 dukeleto it was merge:30
15:39 whiteknight wowsers
15:39 whiteknight Yuki'N++
15:39 dukeleto yeah, he is a code machine
15:39 whiteknight we need to capture him and steal his essence
15:39 alvis joined #parrot
15:39 dukeleto whiteknight: bottle it and sell it
15:42 whiteknight the build system is indeed 20% cooler
15:42 dukeleto msg Yuki`N you have a commit bit to parrot-math-primality now, in case you need it. Please still use pull requests for gci tasks, but now you can commit a fix if something is blocking you
15:42 aloha OK. I'll deliver the message.
15:43 benabik Build system whatnow?
15:43 benabik Oh for Math::Primality
15:44 dukeleto benabik: the parrot port of Math::Primality, yes. We got rosella as a submodule as a value add
15:44 * dukeleto is excited to start benchmarking Perl 5 vs. Winxed numerics
15:48 dalek Rosella/gh-pages: 678ef98 | Whiteknight++ | / (2 files):
15:48 dalek Rosella/gh-pages: First draft of docs for Dumper
15:48 dalek Rosella/gh-pages: review: https://github.com/Whiteknig​ht/Rosella/commit/678ef98aa6
15:48 dalek Rosella: cd4b2c6 | Whiteknight++ | t/ (3 files):
15:48 dalek Rosella: Add in a test file for Dumper. Add in a test file for Path that I've had uncommitted for a while
15:48 dalek Rosella: review: https://github.com/Whiteknig​ht/Rosella/commit/cd4b2c6704
15:48 dalek Rosella: eefe7ac | Whiteknight++ | src/unstable/dumper/ (3 files):
15:48 dalek Rosella: Small cleanups and docs for part of the Dumper library
15:48 dalek Rosella: review: https://github.com/Whiteknig​ht/Rosella/commit/eefe7ac2b4
15:48 dalek Rosella: 3194bcb | Whiteknight++ | src/unstable/dumper/ (6 files):
15:48 dalek Rosella: +cleanups and docs for dumphandlers. Remove the InspectAttrs dumphandler from the default Dumper configuration
15:48 dalek Rosella: review: https://github.com/Whiteknig​ht/Rosella/commit/3194bcb8da
15:55 whiteknight dukeleto: assuming the code is well written and Parrot isn't doing anything stupid, I would like to think the performance should be similar or better
15:56 benabik And if not, time to profile profile profile
15:57 whiteknight exactly
15:58 whiteknight I think we are going to see things we already know to be an issue: start-up times especially
15:58 whiteknight MMD, if the benchmarks use any of that
15:58 dukeleto whiteknight: i hope that winxed is faster than Perl 5. If it isn't, something is wrong.
15:59 whiteknight it's only a level playing field because P5 doesn't have JIT either
15:59 dukeleto parrot.github.com is still not working and i haven't heard back from github yet
15:59 dukeleto but it is still early. I submitted a support ticket last night.
16:00 whiteknight I didn't know that page went down
16:01 whiteknight ..yep, dead as a door-nail
16:02 dukeleto possibly related to the index.html becoming a symlink recently, but I hope not.
16:03 whiteknight hmm.. why would it be a symlink?
16:11 whiteknight it seems like that should be some kind of landing/welcoming page
16:14 dukeleto whiteknight: it is a symlink to a generated file a few directories down
16:16 whiteknight ok
16:17 dukeleto blarg.
16:18 dalek parrot.github.com: 7b4df86 | dukeleto++ | index.html:
16:18 dalek parrot.github.com: See if index.html being a symlink is making Github unhappy
16:18 dalek parrot.github.com: review: https://github.com/parrot/parro​t.github.com/commit/7b4df86ac4
16:19 dukeleto yep, github doesn't like symlinks for index.html pages
16:19 whiteknight ...apparently
16:37 dukeleto comments on this are appreciated: https://github.com/parrot/​parrot.github.com/issues/2
16:53 benabik +1
17:07 dalek nqp: 19f994b | jnthn++ | / (329 files):
17:07 dalek nqp: Merge branch 'nci'
17:07 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/19f994bae4
17:12 dukeleto nqp has it's own nci now?
17:13 whiteknight yes, and I suspect we want to "borrow" some pieces from it
17:15 benabik Is there a particular advantage of dyncall over libffi?
17:17 whiteknight I don't know either library well enough to know
17:19 dukeleto http://dyncall.org/showcase.shtml
17:19 dukeleto seems like the little sister of libffi. Not sure what feature set differences there are.
17:19 benabik Smaller version number?  :-D
17:20 dukeleto looks like R people use dyncall
17:21 benabik Hm.  "For the amxProcess module, the dyncall library now replaces the libffi library, because dyncall comes with ports for Unix/Linux, Macintosh and Windows (libffi only supported Unix-like systems)." ~~ http://code.google.com/p/pawnscript/updates/list
17:22 dukeleto http://dyncall.org/docs/26c3/dyncall_26c3.pdf is interesting
17:22 dukeleto dyncall may support more platforms.
17:25 dalek nqp: e62d398 | jnthn++ | src/NQP/Actions.pm:
17:25 dalek nqp: Ensure references to self in NQP are decontainerized.
17:25 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/e62d3989d9
17:26 dalek rakudo/nom: b2a9370 | jnthn++ | src/ (7 files):
17:26 dalek rakudo/nom: Merge branch 'nci' into nom
17:26 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/b2a9370a12
17:26 dalek rakudo/nom: aa15f3a | jnthn++ | tools/build/NQP_REVISION:
17:26 dalek rakudo/nom: Bump to latest NQP revision.
17:26 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/aa15f3adcf
17:27 benabik Looks like big advantage for Parrot is that dyncall works in "native" Win32.  FFI wants Cygwin/MSys
17:27 Util benabik: better link: http://code.google.com/p/pa​wnscript/source/detail?r=33
17:30 whiteknight if dyncall is the better library, maybe we move to that
17:30 whiteknight and if nqp already has bindings, we can try to port those downward into parrot
17:30 alester joined #parrot
17:31 dukeleto thinking about all our NCI stuff changing is frightening.
17:31 whiteknight it was already going to change a lot for lorito
17:33 dukeleto whiteknight: that is kind of like saying "well, the heat death of the universe was already going to happen"
17:34 dalek parrot: 34fb4fd | petdance++ | / (4 files):
17:34 dalek parrot: s/existant/existent/g per Larry
17:34 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/34fb4fda71
17:35 dalek nqp: c1c6435 | jnthn++ | src/ (3 files):
17:35 dalek nqp: Spellos; TimToady++ for noticing.
17:35 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/c1c64357c9
17:56 dalek Guitor: 1cef5d4 | NotFound++ | / (4 files):
17:56 dalek Guitor: improve color handling and add constants for line style
17:56 dalek Guitor: review: https://github.com/NotFoun​d/Guitor/commit/1cef5d4a5a
18:20 fperrad joined #parrot
18:39 dalek nqp/qbootstrap: 7508c6a | jnthn++ | tools/build/Makefile.in:
18:39 dalek nqp/qbootstrap: First steps towards getting NQP bootstrapping with QRegex. This just twiddles the makefile so we always build QRegex during stage 2, and then build NQPQ as the stage 2 NQP.
18:39 dalek nqp/qbootstrap: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/7508c6a987
18:39 dalek nqp/qbootstrap: 6060370 | jnthn++ | src/QHLL/ (5 files):
18:39 dalek nqp/qbootstrap: Add a temporary QHLL copy of HLL to help facilitate the bootstrap.
18:39 dalek nqp/qbootstrap: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/6060370133
18:39 dalek nqp/qbootstrap: 70ac5d0 | jnthn++ | tools/build/Makefile.in:
18:39 dalek nqp/qbootstrap: Build QHLL in stage 2.
18:39 dalek nqp/qbootstrap: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/70ac5d0db1
18:41 dalek parrot: 0ea033c | (Paweł Nowak)++ | / (3 files):
18:41 dalek parrot: Add a Parrot_api_pmc_box_float function to src/embed/pmc.c
18:41 dalek parrot:
18:41 dalek parrot: Add a Parrot_api_pmc_box_float function to src/embed/pmc.c, change Parrot_api_pmc_box_integer to use Parrot_pmc_box_integer instead of duplicating it.
18:41 dalek parrot: Also add a test for these functions to t/src/embed/pmc.t.
18:41 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/0ea033c61c
18:41 dalek parrot: 44a3d69 | dukeleto++ | / (3 files):
18:41 dalek parrot: Merge pull request #213 from Pawel834/box_float
18:41 dalek parrot:
18:41 dalek parrot: Add a Parrot_api_pmc_box_float function to src/embed/pmc.c
18:42 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/44a3d69244
18:43 cotto ~~
18:46 whiteknight hello cotto
18:46 cotto 'morning, whiteknight
18:48 cotto Our core competence isn't nci.  I'm open to the idea of experimenting with dyncall.
18:52 whiteknight yay!
18:55 whiteknight I'm not against libffi per se, but if dyncall is more portable and if Rakudo is using it, those are two pretty compelling arguments
18:55 whiteknight I would really like to talk to plobsing about it, but I haven't seen him in a while
19:01 lucian joined #parrot
19:09 dalek Guitor: 71322bb | NotFound++ | src/Guitor (2 files):
19:09 dalek Guitor: improve window creation functions and add ResizeWindow
19:09 dalek Guitor: review: https://github.com/NotFoun​d/Guitor/commit/71322bb7d9
19:09 dalek Guitor: 0960d2c | NotFound++ | examples/pizarra.winxed:
19:09 dalek Guitor: add toolbars to example pizarra
19:09 dalek Guitor: review: https://github.com/NotFoun​d/Guitor/commit/0960d2c7e9
19:10 dalek nqp: 47e75d0 | jnthn++ | 3rdparty/dyncall/dynload/dynload_syms_elf.c:
19:10 dalek nqp: Hopefully fix the build for tadzik++.
19:10 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/47e75d0d07
19:14 cotto #ps in 16
19:18 particle1 joined #parrot
19:30 cotto #ps time
20:11 alvis msg whiteknight if there are any documentation gci requests, you can find everything -- if you need/want to -- in my 'documentation_revisions' branch in the 'docs/readmes/' and 'docs/binaries' directories.
20:11 aloha OK. I'll deliver the message.
20:11 whiteknight thanks, I'll look there
20:52 mj41 joined #parrot
21:26 lucian joined #parrot
21:39 Yuki`N joined #parrot
21:41 Yuki`N dukeleto, ping
22:22 dalek parrot-math-primality: 20b5037 | Yuki`N++ | Makefile:
22:22 dalek parrot-math-primality: Small fixes to Makefile.
22:22 dalek parrot-math-primality: review: https://github.com/letolabs/parrot​-math-primality/commit/20b50372c6
22:22 dalek parrot-math-primality: 400cb6c | Yuki`N++ | /:
22:22 dalek parrot-math-primality: Merge branch 'master' of github.com:letolabs/parrot-math-primality
22:22 dalek parrot-math-primality: review: https://github.com/letolabs/parrot​-math-primality/commit/400cb6ca7a
22:52 dalek Guitor: 4ff4b3d | NotFound++ | / (3 files):
22:52 dalek Guitor: reorganize text drawing and start using Xft fonts
22:52 dalek Guitor: review: https://github.com/NotFoun​d/Guitor/commit/4ff4b3de31
22:58 benabik joined #parrot
23:37 whiteknight joined #parrot
23:38 Yuki`N whiteknight, how good are you at reading math papers consisting of 70% symbols and 30% text?
23:39 whiteknight Yuki`N: probably not as good as I was back in gradschool
23:39 Yuki`N Trying to decipher this method of counting primes.
23:39 whiteknight oh, that task from dukeleto?
23:42 Yuki`N yeah.
23:44 Yuki`N I give up.
23:46 whiteknight Okay, don't worry about the optimization
23:47 whiteknight this is a coding competition, not a "who can read complicated math the best"
23:48 Yuki`N lol
23:49 Yuki`N Well, the entire task is pretty much the optimization.
23:49 Yuki`N However, if I could get dukeleto to write pseudocode for it. =3=
23:51 whiteknight this is a learning process for us too, we don't get any guidelines from google about what makes a "good" task
23:51 whiteknight so we see people like you burning through tasks and we think "ok, they need to be harder"
23:51 whiteknight then they get too hard, and we need to go back down
23:51 whiteknight It's your own fault for being too good
23:52 Yuki`N lol
23:54 dalek Guitor: 59d69b1 | NotFound++ | / (3 files):
23:54 dalek Guitor: getTextWidth
23:54 dalek Guitor: review: https://github.com/NotFoun​d/Guitor/commit/59d69b156e
23:55 dukeleto Yuki`N: what now?
23:55 dukeleto Yuki`N: trouble with the math paper?
23:56 Yuki`N only a little bit.
23:56 dukeleto Yuki`N: i am at your service
23:57 Yuki`N I don't understand all of it.
23:58 Yuki`N It seems that they're splitting the computation of pi(x) into sub-parts.
23:59 dukeleto Yuki`N: yes
23:59 Yuki`N however, I have no idea how any of that gets implemented in code.
23:59 dukeleto Yuki`N: what is the first sentence in the paper that doesn't make sense?

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