Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #parrot, 2012-01-19

Parrot | source cross referenced

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:06 whiteknight joined #parrot
00:07 whiteknight good evening, #parrot
00:56 kurahaupo joined #parrot
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01:20 whiteknight hmmm. Something is weird with parrothist.pod. When I try to read it in I get all sorts of encoding errors and stuff
01:21 hernan joined #parrot
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01:32 bacek_at_work whiteknight, all good on my box.
01:32 whiteknight must be my copy is messed up
01:43 whiteknight ah, it was iso-8859 and I was trying to read it as utf-8
02:01 dalek Rosella: 3925a59 | Whiteknight++ | src/unstable/reflect/ (4 files):
02:01 dalek Rosella: auto-cache reflectors on thier target objects with properties. Misc other cleanups
02:01 dalek Rosella: review: https://github.com/Whiteknig​ht/Rosella/commit/3925a5941e
02:01 dalek Rosella: 46e13c3 | Whiteknight++ | src/unstable/assert/ (4 files):
02:01 dalek Rosella: Several cleanups and updates for Assert
02:01 dalek Rosella: review: https://github.com/Whiteknig​ht/Rosella/commit/46e13c3c00
02:01 dalek Rosella: 22c8af8 | Whiteknight++ | src/date/Date.winxed:
02:01 dalek Rosella: fixes for Date. The day coming out of the decodetime opcode is off by one from the rest of my algorithms, so fix that. Make sure to update the weekday when we add days
02:01 dalek Rosella: review: https://github.com/Whiteknig​ht/Rosella/commit/22c8af86cd
02:01 dalek Rosella: db1d2c6 | Whiteknight++ | src/date/DateFormatter.winxed:
02:01 dalek Rosella: Add MMMM and MMM specifiers for DateFormatter
02:01 dalek Rosella: review: https://github.com/Whiteknig​ht/Rosella/commit/db1d2c66ee
02:01 dalek Rosella: 5b63ae4 | Whiteknight++ | / (6 files):
02:01 dalek Rosella: Add in a new parrot_release utility that will help to automate the release process. Still needs work/debugging
02:01 dalek Rosella: review: https://github.com/Whiteknig​ht/Rosella/commit/5b63ae463c
02:01 dalek Rosella: 84de03f | Whiteknight++ | src/utilities/parrot_release.winxed:
02:01 dalek Rosella: Fix a few issues with parrot_release utility
02:01 dalek Rosella: review: https://github.com/Whiteknig​ht/Rosella/commit/84de03f4a3
02:04 dalek Rosella: 0fe13a0 | Whiteknight++ | s (2 files):
02:04 dalek Rosella: fix Assert compilation error, and add it back into the build
02:04 dalek Rosella: review: https://github.com/Whiteknig​ht/Rosella/commit/0fe13a05cf
02:05 dalek parrot: be03965 | Whiteknight++ | / (2 files):
02:05 dalek parrot: Convert parrothist.pod from iso-8859-1 to utf-8, for ease
02:05 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/be03965c81
02:05 dalek parrot: e141fad | Whiteknight++ | tools/release/release.json:
02:05 dalek parrot: Fix a typo in json that I shouldn't have committed
02:05 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/e141fade1b
02:05 dalek parrot: 86d1c01 | Whiteknight++ | / (37 files):
02:05 dalek parrot: Merge branch 'master' of github.com:parrot/parrot
02:05 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/86d1c0135d
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08:27 alvis mortiz++ # for getting to submissions.pod before I could!
08:28 alvis but i'll want to fixup some bits *after* i figure out how to get 'parrotbug' to create new issues without jeopardizing our credentials.
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08:59 moritz I think there's really just one good solution: a proxy with a separate account
09:19 alvis moritz: you're probably right, but cotto mentioned taking a look at using git and the local machine, so i'm checking on that as an option.
09:20 alvis make that possible (but not probable) alternative.
09:24 cotto alvis, don't spend too much effort
09:24 cotto (on using the local machine's git credentials)
09:26 moritz one can check github.user and github.token in ~/.gitconfig
09:27 lucian joined #parrot
09:28 alvis cotto: ok. i'll give myself through the weekend to see if i can come up with something.
09:29 cotto alvis, wfm
09:33 alvis moritz: yes, but ... that won't really work for someone without a github account.
09:34 alvis i *think* the idea of parrotbug is to allow just about anyone to submit a bug report ...
09:34 alvis even if he or she doesn't use github.
09:35 cotto yes
09:35 cotto I was going to raise the same objection
09:36 cotto one (probably minor) issue is that github's tos say that one human may only have a single account
09:43 cotto alvis, we now have a parrotbug repo and a parrotbug team, which has push/pull access to the repo, and a parrotbug user who's on the parrotbug team
09:44 alvis cotto: oh, wow. ok, then.
09:45 cotto they don't do/contain anything yet
09:47 alvis cotto: cool. that'll help with testing. :)
09:47 cotto alvis, how solid an idea do you have of how the proxy account would work?
09:49 alvis cotto: hmm, well, i'm fairly satisfied with the api, but beyond that ... i'm speculating. ...
09:49 alvis cotto: all of the pieces are there; i've just never tried to put 'em together to say what the docs say will work.
09:50 * moritz likes Net::GitHub, fwiw
09:50 cotto alvis, ok.  Can you spell out what the workflow will look like, as far as you understand it?
09:50 moritz it's what I used for scraping the gh issues for the track URLs
09:50 moritz s/track/trac/
09:52 alvis cotto: give me a few minutes, and i will. back in a few
09:53 cotto alvis, no rush
09:59 cotto I'm starting to see how this could work.
10:11 cotto I'm out for the night.  'night
10:19 alvis cotto: 'k, 'night.
10:20 alvis msg cotto please see https://gist.github.com/1639268
10:20 aloha OK. I'll deliver the message.
10:20 moritz that sounds... dubious
10:21 moritz what about
10:21 moritz 1) have a mail box for bugs@parrot.org
10:21 moritz 2) have a cron job that fetches new mails for it
10:22 moritz 3) if a new mail looks like ticket, the job turns the email into a github issue
10:22 moritz *looks like a new ticket
10:22 moritz that way you only need to store the parrotbug token on the server where the cron job runs
10:30 alvis mortiz: sorry, i was away.  i thought of something like that. ...
10:31 alvis moritz: i asked staff about a project email account, but they said no go.  i didn't think of a using a parrot.org email account. <chagrin>
10:34 alvis moritz: btw, which part sounds particularly dubious? the how to catch and process the actual issue in the parrot repo?
10:35 moritz "catch and process"?
10:35 moritz you just open the ticket in the parrot repo
10:35 moritz and the rest is all done by us poor humans
10:35 alvis well, what i mean is, the proxy throws an open issue event to the parrot repo ...
10:36 alvis but then the parrot repo has "catch" and open the issue.  that's the part i'm uncertaion about.
10:36 moritz it doesn't throw an event. It simply does a JSON API call that opens the ticket; it includes the subject, body and so on
10:38 moritz http://search.cpan.org/~fayland/Net-GitHub-0.4​0_04/lib/Net/GitHub/V3/Issues.pm#create_issue
10:38 alvis moritz: take a look at https://github.com/blog/964-all-of-the-hooks.
10:38 moritz alvis: hooks are not everything; you can also use the (synchronous) API, which is easier if you are the one that starts the action
10:39 moritz once you've created a Net::GitHub object with the proper username, repo name and token, the ticket creation is a single method call away.
10:40 alvis moritz: yes, i agree iff the person who launches parrotbug has a github account, unless i misunderstand you. ...
10:40 moritz alvis: parrotbug can simply send the email
10:41 moritz alvis: and a cron job receives that email
10:41 moritz alvis: and it's the cron job that has the parrotbug credentials
10:41 alvis ah, you mean using the approach you outlined ... yes, i agree, using your approach.
10:45 alvis moritz: ok, ... makes sense to me.
10:46 moritz to reduce spam, we can do some simple checksumming on both the client and server side, and if they agree, we're pretty sure it's not spam
10:48 alvis moritz: sounds good. (i'll gist up something later for cotto and let him tell me which way to go.)
10:50 seme hey guys when I'm editing parrot source am I supposed to use spacing or tabs?
10:51 moritz spaces
10:51 seme also what would you guys consider to be a good tutorial on parrot... I've been reading the one on docs.parrot.org
10:51 alvis seme: spacing.  you can check 'editor' if you're using emacs or vim
10:52 alvis seme: it also has some formatting for kate and maybe others; i'm not sure.
10:52 seme I did the make vim-install from the editor directory but for some reason when I edit the Grammer.pm file it is all blue very odd
10:53 alvis seme: hmm, that's a tough one. give me a sec for some links ...
10:53 jsut_ joined #parrot
10:56 alvis there's http://parrot.github.com/html/pct_tutorial.html and there's benabik's https://github.com/benabik/cish
10:57 alvis seme: there's also -- though not a tutorial -- http://whiteknight.github.com/R​osella/winxed/introduction.html
10:59 alvis seme: also, as a rule, read just about everything whiteknight writes.
11:00 alvis seme: fwiw, we're working -- though, admittedly, slowly -- to improve our docs.
11:03 seme thanks I appreciate the pointers
11:04 seme I'm very interested in the project but I'm just learning.  I'll try to help where I can :)
11:07 alvis seme: good luck, and if you have questions, just ask. folks are very good about helping someone along.
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12:24 alvis msg cotto please see https://gist.github.com/1639784 as well.
12:24 aloha OK. I'll deliver the message.
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14:46 whiteknight good morning, #parrot
14:48 slavorg joined #parrot
15:22 aloha (parrot/parrot) Issues opened : 700 (Expand note about rebaseall in README_cygwin.pod) by gerdr : https://github.com/parrot/parrot/issues/700
15:36 dalek Rosella: 7c1520c | Whiteknight++ | / (6 files):
15:36 dalek Rosella: Modify Template.get_standard_template routines to automatically end the '.template' extension to passed in file names.
15:36 dalek Rosella: review: https://github.com/Whiteknig​ht/Rosella/commit/7c1520ce4e
15:36 dalek Rosella: e086158 | Whiteknight++ | / (4 files):
15:36 dalek Rosella: add in three new templates for creating parrot release announcements (eventual replacement for parrot's crow.pir) in txt, html and markdown. Now added to the release tool yet
15:36 dalek Rosella: review: https://github.com/Whiteknig​ht/Rosella/commit/e0861581f5
15:36 dalek Rosella: 1736218 | Whiteknight++ | src/utilities/parrot_release.winxed:
15:36 dalek Rosella: Stub out some logic into parrot_release to automatically create release announcements. Add TODO notes. A few refactors to support this.
15:36 dalek Rosella: review: https://github.com/Whiteknig​ht/Rosella/commit/173621834a
15:36 dalek Rosella: c8fece3 | Whiteknight++ | src/date/Date.winxed:
15:36 dalek Rosella: Use string arrays to hold month and day name literals to avoid boxing
15:36 dalek Rosella: review: https://github.com/Whiteknig​ht/Rosella/commit/c8fece3990
15:36 dalek Rosella: e60d386 | Whiteknight++ | src/date/DateFormatter.winxed:
15:36 dalek Rosella: Add in three new format sequences to DateFormatter to work with 12-hour clocks
15:36 dalek Rosella: review: https://github.com/Whiteknig​ht/Rosella/commit/e60d386b26
15:36 dalek Rosella: 05b95d7 | Whiteknight++ | src/date/ (2 files):
15:36 dalek Rosella: the decodetime op is utc, so Date.now() should use decodelocaltime op instead. This fixes some weirdness I was seeing yesterday.
15:36 dalek Rosella: review: https://github.com/Whiteknig​ht/Rosella/commit/05b95d7822
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16:17 dukeleto ~~
16:19 whiteknight good morning, dukeleto
16:21 dukeleto whiteknight: a jolly good morning to you as well
16:21 dukeleto whiteknight: what are you hacking on today?
16:21 whiteknight dukeleto: work stuff
16:21 whiteknight frustrating, infuriating work stuff
16:32 whiteknight dukeleto: you?
16:37 cotto msg alvis I like where you're going with that, but we may not even need to set up an email address and cron job if we get the parrot.org Drupal install involved.
16:37 aloha OK. I'll deliver the message.
16:37 cotto msg alvis I could hack out a custom github issues api for Drupal that'd act as the proxy between anonymous users and github.  It'd probably take about 3 hours to get something deployable from the Drupal side.
16:37 aloha OK. I'll deliver the message.
16:38 cotto msg alvis Then all we'd need is for parrotbug.pl to hit that api on parrot.org .
16:38 aloha OK. I'll deliver the message.
16:41 whiteknight seen nine
16:42 aloha nine was last seen in #parrot 36 days 20 hours ago saying "I'll see what I can do tomorrow :) Time for bed now".
16:42 whiteknight that's a little troubling
16:44 PacoLinux joined #parrot
16:50 dukeleto whiteknight: roughly the same :)
16:50 whiteknight oh, how's the new gig going for you?
16:50 dukeleto whiteknight: good. So much to learn in the first few months
16:50 cotto looks like a snow day
16:51 dukeleto cotto: i heard seattle got some serious snow
16:52 cotto serious for seattle, yes
16:52 cotto 3-5 inches, and now it's icy
16:52 whiteknight as opposed to all the jocular, light-hearted snow they get some times
16:52 whiteknight wise-cracking, flippantly disrespectful snow
16:52 cotto it takes about 1/2" before Seattle starts freaking out
16:56 dukeleto cotto: yeah, in PDX it is 1/4" :)
16:59 whiteknight philly starts freaking out around the 6-12 inch mark, but only because traffic gets even slower and we hate when traffic gets slower
17:00 whiteknight last time it snowed that much, the streets were plowed but the sidewalks weren't shovled, so I had to walk to work in the middle of the road
17:01 cotto different world
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17:15 atrodo whiteknight> Around here, people freaked out last week when there was a lot of snow but nothing stuck to the road.  Highways were jammed. But 12 inches of snow isn't exactly rare.
17:17 moritz it's funny and sad at the same time how some countries and institutions are surprised by snow every year again
17:47 whiteknight every year we have at least one snow storm where people rush out and buy shovels and snowblowers and stuff. I always wonder where the shovels are from last year
17:48 benabik o/ #parrot
17:48 benabik whiteknight: These things do break.
17:56 dmalcolm joined #parrot
18:22 cotto ~~
18:57 contingencyplan joined #parrot
18:59 cotto interesting post on memory usage efficiency and allocation request size: http://blog.mozilla.com/nnethercote/2011/08/0​5/clownshoes-available-in-sizes-2101-and-up/
19:10 dalek rakudo/nom: 04b34ec | moritz++ | src/core/ (5 files):
19:10 dalek rakudo/nom: revert the last few commits to deal with test failures
19:10 dalek rakudo/nom:
19:10 dalek rakudo/nom: The following commits are reverted here:
19:10 dalek rakudo/nom: 0ac25d036db5630d9794135915174dd1ca0d1d08 First cut implementation of <prior>
19:10 dalek rakudo/nom: aa1d8b645107becb8fa6c7b3d87968a9ff1da296 optimize Range.roll and Range.pick
19:10 dalek rakudo/nom: 0deac24dfe5fda0ce8d46cdae66eba2d928f0c2d try to fix sleep() with non-Num argument
19:10 dalek rakudo/nom: 2fd18f4b66a69f2b9c925f1fbe720bfcf277faad fix Range.{roll,pick}
19:10 dalek rakudo/nom: 42068aafbf3abf0b581f81ad8871b20823ee53ca remove debugging statement
19:10 dalek rakudo/nom: ed943e669a8ea11e28f1e32771f8c0ca2f7ad361 stringify stuff before passing it to the regex engine
19:10 dalek rakudo/nom:
19:10 dalek rakudo/nom: the previous state of the art is in the branch nom-with-failing-tests
19:10 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/04b34ec346
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19:38 not_gerd hello, #parrot
19:39 whiteknight hello not_gerd
19:40 not_gerd I finally got Rakudo to build on Cygwin
19:40 whiteknight nice
19:40 moritz \o/
19:44 sorear opbots trust kthakore
19:44 slavorg Ok
19:44 sorear opbots trust kshannon
19:44 slavorg Ok
19:44 sorear opbots trust not_gerd
19:44 slavorg Ok
19:44 moritz opbots trust cosimo
19:44 slavorg Ok
19:51 bluescreen joined #parrot
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20:10 whiteknight cotto: Oddly relevant: http://theoatmeal.com/blog/seattle_snow
20:16 cotto whiteknight: that's almost exactly how it works
20:29 dalek rakudo/nom: f56c3ec | moritz++ | src/core/Range.pm:
20:29 dalek rakudo/nom: optimize Range.roll, and Range.pick if the number of range elems is much larger than the number of elements to pick
20:29 dalek rakudo/nom:
20:29 dalek rakudo/nom: this is a squashed version of these three commits:
20:29 dalek rakudo/nom:  aa1d8b645107becb8fa6c7b3d87968a9ff1da296
20:29 dalek rakudo/nom:  2fd18f4b66a69f2b9c925f1fbe720bfcf277faad
20:29 dalek rakudo/nom:  42068aafbf3abf0b581f81ad8871b20823ee53ca
20:29 dalek rakudo/nom: plus a small fix to .pick(*)
20:29 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/f56c3ecaf9
20:30 not_gerd I never noticed that before: is it normal that the Parrot DLL is ~64MB
20:33 cotto not_gerd: stripped?
20:33 cotto It's big, but I've never seen it that big
20:36 not_gerd strip -S gets rid of ~30MB
20:36 cotto that's better, but still crazy
20:41 not_gerd it's comparable in size to my statically-linked 64bit clang-3.0.exe
20:41 not_gerd so perhaps not *totally* insane...
20:42 not_gerd (and lua52.dll is ~200kB ;))
20:42 whiteknight when we rip out IMCC, expect the size to go down significantly
20:42 moritz but you'll have to wire up a replacement of sorts :-)
20:43 whiteknight moritz: sure, we'll cheat and offer it as a separate dll
20:43 whiteknight moritz: eventually, I want us all to ween off the beast, and not use PIR as a code intermediary
20:43 whiteknight Rakudo will benefit from such a change significantly, I think
20:43 whiteknight ....assuming we can get our act together and create a bytecode generating API that's worth using
20:48 benabik We can probably speed things slightly by repeating my GSoC project but with Winxed instead of NQP.
20:49 benabik It'll even be slightly easier since Winxed doesn't use PCT, so there's no bootstrapping stage.
20:58 not_gerd just for the record, a stripped 64bit Windows binary cross-compiled from Cygwin is only ~3.5MB - don't know what's up with my Cygwin build...
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21:01 dalek rakudo/nom: 7006f70 | moritz++ | src/core/control.pm:
21:01 dalek rakudo/nom: try to fix sleep() with non-Num argument
21:01 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/7006f70f4e
21:03 whiteknight benabik: I'm going to get back on the PACT train, sooner than later
21:09 not_gerd left #parrot
21:16 whiteknight I'm running out of Rosella-related distractions.
23:02 dukeleto ~~
23:16 dalek parrot: 91106b7 | (Gerhard R)++ | MANIFEST.generated:
23:16 dalek parrot: add Cygwin-specific files to MANIFEST.generated
23:16 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/91106b765c
23:16 dalek parrot: d654278 | (Gerhard R)++ | config/init/hints/cygwin.pm:
23:16 dalek parrot: change inst_libparrot_* flags on Cygwin
23:16 dalek parrot: we need to link against the import library libparrot.dll.a in libdir,
23:16 dalek parrot: NOT against the DLL cygparrot*.dll located in bindir
23:16 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/d654278823
23:16 dalek parrot: b9da642 | dukeleto++ | / (4 files):
23:16 dalek parrot: Merge pull request #699 from gerdr/gerdr/cygwin
23:16 dalek parrot:
23:16 dalek parrot: cleanup cygwin build
23:16 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/b9da642e5c
23:16 aloha (parrot/parrot) Issues closed : 699 (cleanup cygwin build) by gerdr : https://github.com/parrot/parrot/issues/699

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