Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #parrot, 2012-02-05

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:17 whiteknight msg NotFound I have some syntax ideas for winxed: https://gist.github.com/1741304 Let me know what you like or don't like. I'll make the patches for anything you want
00:17 aloha OK. I'll deliver the message.
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01:06 whiteknight msg bacek you mentioned that vtables were not a good interface. Do you have a suggestion for a better one? I want to start designing a replacement
01:06 aloha OK. I'll deliver the message.
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12:50 whiteknight good morning, #parrot
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13:20 tadzik good morning whiteknight
13:41 whiteknight hello tadzik, how are you?
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13:45 tadzik not bad, the exam session is coming to an end. How about you?
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14:41 whiteknight tadzik: going well. Finally have a weekend where everybody is healthy and we aren't busy with prior committments
14:42 whiteknight so we're able to get lots of overdue housework done
14:45 NotFound ~~
14:47 NotFound whiteknight: function foo(var x = "default") any expression can appear there <--- You mean any, or only compile time evaluable?
14:47 whiteknight NotFound: Any. It gets transformed into an if statement where the expression is evaluated
14:48 NotFound It may be tricky to stablish the appropiate scope.
14:48 NotFound Mmmmm... no, the only tricky part may diagnosing wrong usage of other arguments.
14:50 NotFound whiteknight: the "static" one, you mean just adding nsentry, or droping method?
14:51 whiteknight For static, I don't know. Dropping method might be closer to the java/c++/C# usage
14:53 NotFound I've tought about static methods but not decided yet a solution. Maybe we should wait for a new object model that allows adding method to the Class.
14:54 whiteknight yeah
14:54 whiteknight If you see any ideas in there that you like let me know and I'll implement them
14:54 whiteknight they're my crazy ideas, after all
14:55 whiteknight I'm trying to think of ways to use flags and things in a cleaner way than using the [] brackets all over
14:55 NotFound I like the use of modifiers instead of specific syntax because doesn't get in the way of possible future syntax additions.
14:57 lucian static methods or class methods?
14:57 whiteknight NotFound: these are the possible future syntax additions
14:57 whiteknight Not
14:57 NotFound The "=" for defaults is a well known usage, tough, that may be acceptable.
14:57 lucian in languages with mutable data structures defaults may be tricky
14:57 whiteknight I'll try to make a patch. I'll send it to you for review when it's ready
14:57 NotFound whiteknight: yes, but the ones that already can be done with modifiers are less urgent.
14:58 lucian def bla(x=[]) in python gives all calls the same list
14:58 lucian the if option is better (also what coffeescript does)
14:58 whiteknight NotFound: it's not "urgent", but these are things I would like to work on
14:58 whiteknight lucian: We're only talking about Winxed, not all Parrot languages
14:59 NotFound lucian: but winxed does not belong to that family.
14:59 lucian whiteknight: i know, i'm just pointing out what other languages do and why
14:59 whiteknight lucian: Oh, okay.
14:59 lucian NotFound: winxed has mutable data structures, doesn't it?
15:00 NotFound lucian: winxed uses only parrot PMCs, doesn't add any on its own.
15:00 lucian NotFound: right, so a parrot array used as a default could become shared between calls
15:00 lucian NotFound: or do you mean about methods?
15:01 whiteknight It would create a new one each time the method or function was called
15:01 whiteknight unless we explicitly referenced a global item
15:02 NotFound lucian: Ah, understood. But the = in that case is a initialization, and winxed initialization of arrays creates new ones.
15:03 lucian NotFound: right, but is it initialised at call-time, or function creation time?
15:03 NotFound Unless you assign to a var an array that comes from some ohter part, in that case you should know what you are doing.
15:04 NotFound lucian: call time.
15:04 lucian NotFound: ok, then there's no problem :)
15:06 NotFound Is inefficient for constant arrays of constant values, but an optimization for such usages is waiting for new ways of creating PBCs.
15:06 lucian sure
15:06 lucian it doesn't matter, it would be unsafe to share mutable objects that way
15:07 lucian the programmer would have to default it to null and create it in an if to make sure it's safe
15:07 NotFound Winxed is a low level beast, sometimes it needs to provide unsafe ways and trust the programmers.
15:12 NotFound whiteknight: I see a litlle problem: if you do (var a = [ "a", "b", "c" ] ) you get the default as a PMC array, when you probaly want a string array. With the current syntax the kinf of array can't be specified.
15:13 NotFound s/kinf/kind
15:13 whiteknight NotFound: Sure, but that seems like a small issue and something we can fix later
15:14 NotFound Ok
15:59 dalek Rosella: 4d6d1fa | Whiteknight++ | src/test/ (2 files):
15:59 dalek Rosella: A few doc fixes
15:59 dalek Rosella: review: https://github.com/Whiteknig​ht/Rosella/commit/4d6d1fab9f
15:59 dalek Rosella: f52c3a4 | Whiteknight++ | src/reflect/ (2 files):
15:59 dalek Rosella: [Reflect] Add in a new get_context builtin, and use it to optimize a few functions
15:59 dalek Rosella: review: https://github.com/Whiteknig​ht/Rosella/commit/f52c3a4d00
15:59 dalek Rosella: 85ec3a5 | Whiteknight++ | src/ (3 files):
15:59 dalek Rosella: [Core] Move the get_context inline to the core builtins list. Use it in one more place in Core where I was getting the context the hard way
15:59 dalek Rosella: review: https://github.com/Whiteknig​ht/Rosella/commit/85ec3a5461
15:59 dalek Rosella: 49fa10e | Whiteknight++ | setup.winxed:
15:59 dalek Rosella: [Date] Fix a dependency issue. Date relies on Core. Fixes a build warning
15:59 dalek Rosella: review: https://github.com/Whiteknig​ht/Rosella/commit/49fa10e76b
15:59 dalek Rosella: c801ffd | Whiteknight++ | src/harness/View.winxed:
15:59 dalek Rosella: [Harness] clean up the View
15:59 dalek Rosella: review: https://github.com/Whiteknig​ht/Rosella/commit/c801ffdac5
15:59 dalek Rosella: 862df5f | Whiteknight++ | src/harness/ (5 files):
15:59 dalek Rosella: [Harness] Fix up harness output to more closely match prove and other harnesses
15:59 dalek Rosella: review: https://github.com/Whiteknig​ht/Rosella/commit/862df5f339
15:59 dalek Rosella: 74f7fc6 | Whiteknight++ | / (4 files):
15:59 dalek Rosella: [Harness] Fix test failures from View/TapParser changes
15:59 dalek Rosella: review: https://github.com/Whiteknig​ht/Rosella/commit/74f7fc6350
16:55 dalek rakudo/nom: a177364 | tadzik++ | / (2 files):
16:55 dalek rakudo/nom: Remove trailing whitespace in declarator blocks
16:55 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/a177364f19
17:12 dalek winxed/optional_args: f8f1a54 | Whiteknight++ | winxedst2.winxed:
17:12 dalek winxed/optional_args: First draft of using an = syntax for easier optional arguments
17:12 dalek winxed/optional_args: review: https://github.com/Whiteknig​ht/winxed/commit/f8f1a544a5
17:12 whiteknight msg NotFound here's my first draft of the optional syntax: https://github.com/Whiteknig​ht/winxed/commit/f8f1a544a5
17:12 aloha OK. I'll deliver the message.
17:14 whiteknight msg NotFound here's an example: https://gist.github.com/1746639
17:14 aloha OK. I'll deliver the message.
17:17 whiteknight that new syntax has potential to help me really clean up Rosella
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20:15 dalek rakudo/nom: 5a2c7d2 | moritz++ | / (3 files):
20:15 dalek rakudo/nom: make List.tree more useful
20:15 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/5a2c7d279a
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22:45 bacek_at_work ~~
22:51 whiteknight hello bacek_at_work

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