Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #parrot, 2012-05-15

Parrot | source cross referenced

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:03 whiteknight fulltest passes for me on master, so that's a good sign before the release
00:06 benabik \o/
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00:40 isBEKaml whiteknight: okay, sent a pull request, referencing it in #280
00:40 isBEKaml whiteknight: Note that I still have to update tests in interp.t. (pending)
00:44 cotto ~~
00:45 aloha (parrot/parrot) Issues opened : 772 (Addresses #280) by svatsan : https://github.com/parrot/parrot/issues/772
00:49 whiteknight isBEKaml++
00:49 whiteknight msg isBEKaml thanks for the pull request. We've got a release tomorrow (tuesday) so nothing gets merged before that. I'll look at it afterwards. Thanks!
00:49 aloha OK. I'll deliver the message.
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08:33 dalek rakudo/typed-ex-from-c: 1a61704 | moritz++ | src/ (2 files):
08:33 dalek rakudo/typed-ex-from-c: first shot at throwing typed exceptions from C
08:33 dalek rakudo/typed-ex-from-c:
08:33 dalek rakudo/typed-ex-from-c: for binding type checks.
08:33 dalek rakudo/typed-ex-from-c: Very whacky right now.
08:33 dalek rakudo/typed-ex-from-c: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/1a61704376
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09:10 dalek rakudo/typed-ex-from-c: c310a27 | moritz++ | src/ops/perl6.ops:
09:10 dalek rakudo/typed-ex-from-c: add a function for getting the thrower for typed exceptions
09:10 dalek rakudo/typed-ex-from-c: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/c310a278e2
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09:42 dalek rakudo/nom: 1a61704 | moritz++ | src/ (2 files):
09:42 dalek rakudo/nom: first shot at throwing typed exceptions from C
09:42 dalek rakudo/nom:
09:42 dalek rakudo/nom: for binding type checks.
09:42 dalek rakudo/nom: Very whacky right now.
09:42 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/1a61704376
09:42 dalek rakudo/nom: c310a27 | moritz++ | src/ops/perl6.ops:
09:42 dalek rakudo/nom: add a function for getting the thrower for typed exceptions
09:42 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/c310a278e2
09:42 dalek rakudo/nom: 82b9879 | moritz++ | src/ops/perl6.ops:
09:42 dalek rakudo/nom: use Parrot_str_new_constant where possible
09:42 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/82b98791f9
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09:53 dalek rakudo/nom: 4687e02 | moritz++ | src/ (2 files):
09:53 dalek rakudo/nom: typed exception for return type check failure
09:53 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/4687e0217f
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12:46 whiteknight good morning, #parrot
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12:47 benabik o/ whiteknight
12:48 whiteknight good morning benabik
12:48 whiteknight how are things going with you?
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12:50 benabik Alright, I guess.  Busy
12:54 benabik OS update, BRB
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13:05 dalek rakudo/nom: 38ea7c2 | moritz++ | src/ (2 files):
13:05 dalek rakudo/nom: typed exception for returning outside of a routine
13:05 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/38ea7c2acb
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13:08 benabik BAK
13:52 whiteknight blah, tools/release/auto_release.pl wants to do my text editing in vim, which is a no-go
13:53 whiteknight try for a few minutes to actually make an edit to the text buffer, fail. Then press Ctrl+C and Alt+F4 until the whole thing goes away and I can get into an editor that I understand
13:53 moritz can't you just make it invoke $EDITOR ?
13:54 whiteknight I probably don't have that set up. Plus, it doesn't help me once the script is already running
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14:10 dalek rakudo/nom: 1c1208b | moritz++ | src/ (2 files):
14:10 dalek rakudo/nom: Throw typed exception for "nextsame not in dynamic scope of a dispatcher"
14:10 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/1c1208b137
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14:38 brrt1 reading winxed documentation, it strikes me that parrot is remarkably powerful actually
14:39 brrt1 or, 'cps is actually pretty awesome'
14:39 whiteknight I think so, yes. It's a matter of making sure all that power is exposed through clean interfaces, and implemented efficiently
14:39 whiteknight sometimes we do good. Sometimes we can do better
14:40 brrt1 :-)
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14:41 whiteknight wanting to take really cool ideas and give them really great implementations is my biggest motivator for participating in parrot
14:43 brrt mine was 'i want to run perl6 by now'... it has since loosened up a bit to 'parrot itself is pretty awesome'
14:43 whiteknight not a bad loosening :)
14:44 whiteknight Perl6 is extremely ambitious, and if we want it done right we cannot be impatient
14:45 moritz but we cannot wait either
14:45 brrt extremely ambitious indeed
14:47 brrt which attracted me in the first place, mind you
14:51 whiteknight Sometimes I suspect it might be too ambitious, and Perl7 will be almost exactly like Perl6 minus the handful of features that are more burden than they are worth :)
14:51 whiteknight But, you don't know what things are worth until you implement them and test them out
14:54 whiteknight moritz: I think I have a handle on the last remaining threading failures. If we can get that sorted out, and if my GC finalization work tests out, Rakudo might get a few new features this month
14:54 brrt i honestly feel that sometimes this goes way above my head
15:01 whiteknight brrt: It takes time and experience. I can tell you that schools usually don't prepare you for "real world" development tasks
15:05 whiteknight ....which incidentally is why GSOC is so valuable
15:12 brrt also, you did read and know i'm not a compsci student, right? :-)
15:13 brrt but really, it is all ... learnable, i guess
15:13 brrt just rather large
15:16 benabik Parrot involves some strange concepts from CS.  They're not too unapproachable I think.  :-)
15:24 whiteknight brrt: What is your major? I'm not compsci either
15:25 brrt biology
15:26 brrt as in, medical moluculair neuro immuno biology
15:26 brrt very few trees and birds, unfortunately :-)
15:28 * moritz is just a CS minor
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15:44 brrt whats 'just a' about that
15:44 brrt i read nine's thesis, and i thought it rather impressive
15:45 moritz well, I didn't do a bachelor, it was just my secondary subject
15:45 moritz (I don't know if you call that actually a "minor")
15:46 brrt ah, i see, what was your primary subject then?
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15:55 moritz physics
15:55 moritz (and still is, I'm doing my PHD thesis)
15:59 brrt nice
15:59 brrt i started out with physics.. was more or less scared off when people said 'you know whats awesome? physics gets you into finance!'
15:59 moritz well, that's an option, not mandatory
16:00 brrt i know
16:00 brrt but considering the other options... i don't think i was ever going to be a 'good' physicist really :-)
16:00 moritz physics can also get you into basically anything
16:00 moritz our prime minister had a PhD in physics
16:01 brrt i know
16:01 brrt one reason for my respect for her
16:02 PerlJam physics is the sweet spot that everything is based on and has some connection to reality.   Math is good too, but it's too easy to lose the connection to reality.  :)
16:03 brrt i guess.. life is pretty awesome as well
16:03 brrt :-p
16:03 PerlJam brrt: sure, but how those organic molecules interact is all based on the principles of physics!  ;)
16:05 brrt also true, but complex to a point that physics-as-done-by-humans can't really manage it
16:05 moritz right, you need to get into a different abstraction layer
16:06 brrt something that - if i may generalise from personal experience - engineers and physicsists sometimes forget :-)
16:07 brrt anyway, have to run
16:07 brrt hope to catch #parrotsketch today
16:07 dalek rakudo/nom: c89725c | moritz++ | src/core/Str.pm:
16:07 dalek rakudo/nom: lsubstr, an lvalue substr. Slower but more versatile
16:08 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/c89725c1f9
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17:23 dalek rakudo/nom: f4e6701 | moritz++ | src/core/Str.pm:
17:23 dalek rakudo/nom: rename lsubstr to substr-rw
17:23 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/f4e6701e93
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17:54 dalek rakudo/nom: 3ec9365 | moritz++ | t/spectest.data:
17:54 dalek rakudo/nom: run substr-rw.t
17:54 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/3ec9365ee0
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19:33 whiteknight #ps now
19:36 moritz thanks for the reminder
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20:12 dalek rakudo/nom: f69e58c | moritz++ | src/core/Exception.pm:
20:12 dalek rakudo/nom: typo noticed by kboga++
20:12 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/f69e58c53b
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20:18 kjs good evening
20:18 kjs I'm looking for the status of M0. Anyone has some pointers for me?
20:22 kjs cotto: ping
20:26 brrt late for parrotsketch, no?
20:26 NotFound kjs: I think there are some doc in the m0 branch
20:26 NotFound brrt: yes
20:26 kjs NotFound: thanks, I'll have a look.
20:27 NotFound https://github.com/parrot/parrot/bl​ob/m0/docs/pdds/draft/pdd32_m0.pod
20:30 brrt too bad
20:30 kjs thanks NotFound. Do you know who's working on this?
20:31 cotto kjs: poing
20:31 kjs hi cotto
20:31 cotto hio kjs
20:31 kjs the internet told me you're involved in m0 :-)
20:31 cotto I hate that guy, but he's right in this case.
20:31 cotto ;)
20:31 kjs was interested in status, and code.
20:31 cotto also, welcome back
20:32 kjs thanks :-)
20:32 NotFound brrt: If you have something to report, just enter the channel and write it as a late report, the logs are saved.
20:33 cotto the status is that some folks are concurrently working on a spec and two reference implementations
20:33 kjs are the ref impl. in perl?
20:33 cotto there's only a perl 5 assembler, but there's a p5 and a C interp
20:33 cotto they both currently pass all existing tests
20:34 cotto of which there are a healthy chunk
20:34 kjs is this the m0 branch as well?
20:34 cotto yes
20:34 cotto make m0_tests and m0_c_tests
20:34 kjs ok thanks, will have a look
20:35 cotto there are a number of important holes in the spec that are being worked through by me, nbrown++, jimmyz++, benabik++ and others
20:35 brrt NotFound: not really, just wanted to see it :-) have read the logs by now
20:35 kjs not sure if it's of interest, but there's a Lua bytecode "specification"; there's a manual which explains the lua bytecode format, which may be of interest for implementing a new bytecode format.
20:35 cotto yup.  I stole a few ideas from it
20:36 cotto not too many though, since Lua's philosophy about interacting with C isn't very compatible with m0's
20:36 cotto lua embraces C whereas m0 will use CPS pretty extensively
20:36 cotto *C calling conventions
20:38 kjs ok. thanks.
20:38 cotto the current list of holes is at https://gist.github.com/2581153
20:38 kjs how do i download m0 branch? Not really familiar with git
20:38 kjs can i just click the zip button after selecting the m0 branch on the http interface?
20:39 cotto better to have a full git clone
20:39 moritz and then  git checkout m0
20:39 kjs i have a normal parrot checkout....
20:39 cotto then do git checkout -b m0
20:40 cotto from svn or git?
20:40 kjs i used git to clone my parrot
20:40 moritz then it already has the m0 branch
20:40 cotto also, we have a cla from you, don't we?
20:40 moritz (unless it's too old, in which case you can do 'git fetch' first)
20:41 kjs ok, it switched the branch now
20:41 kjs but I think i still need to do some fetching?
20:41 kjs Yes, CLA is there. though I wouldn't start committing...
20:41 cotto does docs/pdd/draft/pdd32_m0.pod exist?
20:42 cotto if so, you're ready to go
20:42 kjs no.. not there
20:43 kjs well not a big deal, i can read online i suppose. just interested in status and how its done
20:43 cotto git pull origin m0
20:44 cotto do you want a commit bit now?
20:44 kjs not at the moment, thanks
20:44 cotto alright
20:44 kjs i'll have to see how much time i have...
20:44 kjs but this m0 idea/architecture is very interesting
20:52 dalek winxed: 0289de5 | NotFound++ | winxedst2.winxed:
20:52 dalek winxed: clean a bit IdentifierExpr and FunctionId classes
20:52 dalek winxed: review: https://github.com/NotFoun​d/winxed/commit/0289de5376
21:10 kjs cotto: if i understand correctly, the C interpreter implementation doesn't have a parser/assembler
21:10 cotto kjs: right
21:11 kjs is the C implementation going anywhere?
21:11 cotto it's not as important to implement a C assembler right now
21:11 cotto definitely
21:11 kjs ok
21:11 cotto the Perl version is for easier prototyping
21:11 cotto the C version is (close) to what the final version will look like
21:11 kjs I suppose it's important not to make the same mistake as with IMCC, which is now too tightly glued to parrot guts
21:12 cotto and multiple implementations help shake out bugs in the spec
21:12 kjs yeah good point.
21:12 cotto which has been happening already
21:21 dalek winxed: 292f84f | NotFound++ | winxedst2.winxed:
21:21 dalek winxed: getvar needs a Token, not a string
21:21 dalek winxed: review: https://github.com/NotFoun​d/winxed/commit/292f84f92f
21:29 dalek winxed: ddcff05 | NotFound++ | / (3 files):
21:29 dalek winxed: drop builtin var cast from stage 1
21:29 dalek winxed: review: https://github.com/NotFoun​d/winxed/commit/ddcff0576e
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22:49 whiteknight good evening, #parrot
22:51 dalek rakudo/nom: 1e35759 | jnthn++ | docs/ChangeLog:
22:51 dalek rakudo/nom: Note about l-value substr in ChangeLog.
22:51 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/1e35759769
22:51 dalek rakudo/nom: 22c12b0 | jnthn++ | / (4 files):
22:51 dalek rakudo/nom: First crack at <~~> in regexes. Note that <~~0> and <~~beer> are NYI, and are probably compiled a bit differently.
22:51 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/22c12b0cff
23:09 whiteknight hmmm... I set $EDITOR, but tools/release/auto_release.pl still seems to dump me into vim
23:10 whiteknight ....and then the script fails because it's trying to build before the bootstrap is ready
23:51 dalek parrot: 210ad26 | Whiteknight++ | / (10 files):
23:51 dalek parrot: Commit metadata for 4.4.0, Parrot Banana Fanna Fo Ferret.
23:51 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/210ad264c4
23:52 Topic for #parrot is now Parrot 4.4.0 "Banana Fanna Fo Ferret" | http://parrot.org | Log: http://irclog.perlgeek.de/parrot | #parrotsketch meeting Tuesday 19:30 UTC

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Parrot | source cross referenced