Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #parrot, 2012-07-12

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Time Nick Message
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00:38 dalek rakudo/nom: 95dfc00 | pmichaud++ | src/core/Version.pm:
00:38 dalek rakudo/nom: Revise Version.Str / .gist / .perl .
00:38 dalek rakudo/nom:
00:38 dalek rakudo/nom: After thinking about it a bit more, I'm of the opinion that
00:38 dalek rakudo/nom: $version.Str should produce a string that doesn't include
00:38 dalek rakudo/nom: a leading 'v'.  The .gist form does have a leading 'v', however,
00:38 dalek rakudo/nom: so C< say $version > still does what one expects.
00:38 dalek rakudo/nom:
00:38 dalek rakudo/nom: When putting a version in the middle of a string we'll often want
00:38 dalek rakudo/nom: to exclude any leading 'v' (e.g., when generating filenames),
00:38 dalek rakudo/nom: it's much easier to add a 'v' when it's needed than it is to
00:38 dalek rakudo/nom: eliminate one we don't want.  Also, the form without the
00:38 dalek rakudo/nom: leading 'v' is the only one that can (so far) reliably have
00:38 dalek rakudo/nom: much chance of round-tripping back into Version.new(...),
00:38 dalek rakudo/nom: since alphabetics in strings arguments to Version.new are meaningful.
00:38 dalek rakudo/nom:
00:38 dalek rakudo/nom: At the moment the spec is somewhat silent on this topic, so
00:38 dalek rakudo/nom: I'm hoping this will make more sense.  If not, a spec
00:38 dalek rakudo/nom: clarification or some official tests will let us know how to
00:38 dalek rakudo/nom: improve it.  :-)
00:38 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/95dfc0007b
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00:56 whiteknight msg dukeleto I just sent out an email with you CC'd. Let me know if you have anything to add. I don't want to pile on more than necessary
00:56 aloha OK. I'll deliver the message.
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01:42 dalek rakudo/nom: 499cc68 | pmichaud++ | src/core/Version.pm:
01:42 dalek rakudo/nom: Cleanup Version .parts handling a bit.
01:42 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/499cc68bd7
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07:36 dalek rakudo/nom: c758c1b | (Felix Herrmann)++ | src/core/ (2 files):
07:36 dalek rakudo/nom: add X::Numeric::Real
07:36 dalek rakudo/nom:
07:36 dalek rakudo/nom: Signed-off-by: Moritz Lenz <moritz@faui2k3.org>
07:36 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/c758c1bc38
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08:37 arnsholt So, if I just invoke pthread_create inside parrot code without any additional protections, fireworks and explosions will ensue, right?
08:50 sorear It should be fine
08:51 sorear (as long as you don't try to access the interpreter from the child thread)
08:51 moritz which means, you only run C code :-)
08:51 moritz and no parrot-related C code either
08:54 arnsholt Yeah, that's what I thought
08:54 arnsholt No pthread_create(...) is native("pthread") { * } =)
09:11 sorear parrot is designed to operate with one pthread per interpreter
09:11 sorear there was a project to implement a full-featured erlangish message-passing/actors concurrency system; I don't know how far it got
09:12 moritz sorear: stalled in a branch, iirc
09:12 moritz the fastest way to get threads into parrot would be to fix the few remaining failures in the threads branch
09:19 brrt .. maybe readifying could start a green thread? if necessary that is, i use 'Parrot_api_ready_bytecode' to pre-load libraries
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09:34 dalek rakudo/nom: c2c02ab | (Gabor Szabo)++ | / (2 files):
09:34 dalek rakudo/nom: change most of the Test.pm functions to return their truth value and test this in the sanity test
09:34 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/c2c02abf69
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11:11 NotFound ~~
11:49 brrt \o NotFound
11:55 brrt I must say I'm a little confused w/regards to the starting of execution
12:00 moritz you speak up, we execute you :-)
12:00 moritz erm, probably not what you wanted to know :-)
12:02 NotFound brrt: Yes, Is a little confusing.
12:21 brrt ... oh moritz, if only you'd known
12:22 brrt i have a hand-crafted call stack from parrot_api_load_bytecode to parrot_pcc_invoke_from_sig_object
12:23 brrt and another from Parrot_api_pmc_invoke
12:23 brrt they differ.. markedly
12:24 brrt but they both end in Parrot_pcc_invoke_from_sig_object
12:24 particle joined #parrot
12:34 brrt ... would it be a good idea to add task creation to interpreter instantiation?
12:34 brrt or, do we want to kill green threads?
12:46 dalek rakudo/nom: 74e1838 | moritz++ | src/core/Exception.pm:
12:46 dalek rakudo/nom: [Exception] add methods resumable and resume
12:46 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/74e1838375
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15:18 dalek nqp: 62b9fc9 | (Gerhard R)++ | 3rdparty/dyncall/buildsys/gmake/tool/gcc.gmake:
15:18 dalek nqp: [dyncall] workaround for build issues on case-insensitive file systems
15:18 dalek nqp:
15:18 dalek nqp: fixes issue #47
15:18 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/62b9fc9f16
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16:38 dalek nqp/toqast: f014bdc | jnthn++ | src/QAST/Compiler.nqp:
16:38 dalek nqp/toqast: Handle an optimization escape hatch for the way $_, $!, $/ and %_ are handled.
16:38 dalek nqp/toqast: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/f014bdcee3
16:38 dalek rakudo/toqast: 8721264 | jnthn++ | src/QPerl6/Actions.pm:
16:38 dalek rakudo/toqast: Updates to use new exception handling approach in QAST. Gets 12-try.t passing again.
16:38 dalek rakudo/toqast: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/87212648d0
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18:10 nine Good evening, #parrot
18:15 dalek nqp/toqast: 3dc36d1 | jnthn++ | src/QAST/Compiler.nqp:
18:15 dalek nqp/toqast: Implement falling back to symbol if there are QAST::Var nodes with no scope declared.
18:15 dalek nqp/toqast: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/3dc36d14ca
18:19 dalek rakudo/toqast: 869ffc9 | jnthn++ | src/QPerl6/Actions.pm:
18:19 dalek rakudo/toqast: Toss :lvalue marker that isn't needed.
18:19 dalek rakudo/toqast: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/869ffc9329
18:19 dalek rakudo/toqast: e99f5b5 | jnthn++ | t/harness:
18:19 dalek rakudo/toqast: Run spectest with qperl6.
18:19 dalek rakudo/toqast: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/e99f5b5388
18:19 dalek rakudo/toqast: 3589ee7 | jnthn++ | src/QPerl6/Actions.pm:
18:19 dalek rakudo/toqast: Fix self, booleans.
18:19 dalek rakudo/toqast: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/3589ee7a2d
18:19 dalek rakudo/toqast: 4b2dc33 | jnthn++ | src/QPerl6/Actions.pm:
18:19 dalek rakudo/toqast: Fix up Whatever * hanlding a bit.
18:19 dalek rakudo/toqast: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/4b2dc33b56
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18:56 dalek rakudo/toqast: fd5eecc | jnthn++ | src/QPerl6/Actions.pm:
18:56 dalek rakudo/toqast: Fix &foo.
18:56 dalek rakudo/toqast: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/fd5eecc2dd
18:56 dalek rakudo/toqast: 5768ec4 | jnthn++ | src/QPerl6/Actions.pm:
18:56 dalek rakudo/toqast: Fix return.
18:56 dalek rakudo/toqast: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/5768ec4966
19:02 whiteknight joined #parrot
19:02 whiteknight good afternoon, #parrot
19:02 nine Good evening, whiteknight
19:02 whiteknight hello nine!
19:03 whiteknight nine: I'm trying to get those threads issues dealt with, but I haven't been able to find a PPC machine to work on
19:04 whiteknight I'm leaning towards the "we don't support that platform anymore" side of things, considering nobody who can fixes these kinds of issues has access to that platform
19:04 whiteknight but that's not a decision I can make by myself
19:06 nine That would have been pretty much the same with Windows considering how much time went by until we could sort that out...
19:06 whiteknight yeah
19:07 whiteknight I suspect what rurban++ says is correct: It is probably specific to the test
19:07 whiteknight but without looking at it, I can't say anything conclusively
19:08 nine The test was problematic before. Might still have some issues left
19:08 whiteknight msg dukeleto either nine or I really need to get shell access to a PPC machine to handle a test failure on that platform in the threads branch. Do you have any ideas for such a thing?
19:08 aloha OK. I'll deliver the message.
19:09 whiteknight cross your fingers...
19:09 nine Speaking of tests. I had my final bachelor's exam on Monday and passed so I got more time now :)
19:09 whiteknight nine++
19:09 whiteknight Congratulations!
19:09 nine thank you very much!
19:10 nine http://niner.name/Hybrid_Th​reads_for_the_Parrot_VM.pdf
19:10 nine This also means that my paper is finished. I even added a couple of diagrams ;)
19:15 dalek rakudo/toqast: c37bf13 | jnthn++ | src/QPerl6/Actions.pm:
19:15 dalek rakudo/toqast: Fix :foo and :!foo colonpairs.
19:15 dalek rakudo/toqast: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/c37bf136e0
19:15 dalek rakudo/toqast: ad2340a | jnthn++ | src/QPerl6/Actions.pm:
19:15 dalek rakudo/toqast: Fix named arg passing.
19:15 dalek rakudo/toqast: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/ad2340af77
19:15 nine The failing test 37 in nci.t is nci_cb_C1 which is also the first test to use sleep
19:20 rich left #parrot
19:24 whiteknight so do you think sleep is problematic?
19:24 nine It sleeps for 10ms in a loop with at most 10 iterations waiting for the callback to happen. That's not exactly much time. Looks similar to the problem I fixed in the same file where a sleep was just too little on a loaded system.
19:25 benabik whiteknight: I know sleep is problematic...  oh, wait, you meant in Parrot, nvm.
19:25 whiteknight benabik: :)
19:25 benabik I think the gcc farm has PCC machines...
19:26 whiteknight nine: So we can increase the timeout there or we can scrap the test as being fundamentally flawed
19:26 whiteknight do other sleep-related tests pass? (do we have other sleep-related tests?)
19:26 benabik http://gcc.gnu.org/wiki/CompileFarm
19:26 whiteknight benabik: I figured that was the answer. Now all we need is for nine or I to get access to it
19:26 whiteknight dangerous, scarey SSH access
19:26 whiteknight scary
19:27 benabik whiteknight: Looks like they're pretty liberal with access.  Instructions are on the wikis
19:27 whiteknight I've been hunting through craigslist for an affordable PPC-based macbook
19:27 nine t/op/time.t tests sleep
19:27 whiteknight so far, the ones I can find are not really affordable
19:27 Coke whiteknight: you want, I'll ship you my dead one. ;)
19:27 whiteknight Coke: how dead are we talking?
19:28 Coke I think that macbook has a dead logic board.
19:28 whiteknight ouch
19:28 whiteknight that's....like the one thing we need, right?
19:28 Coke I have one with a dead board, one with a dead drive.
19:28 benabik I have an old G4 Powerbook around somewhere...  I think it might have just been display problems that made me put it away.
19:29 whiteknight Yeah, that's the problem in a nutshell. Either nobody has them, or they are all old and broken by now
19:30 Coke ppc is an EOL product from apple.
19:30 Coke How old is the oldest OS that supports it?
19:30 whiteknight right, which is why I question whether we continue to support it in the future
19:30 whiteknight We should set some kind of a deadline, if that deadline has not already passed
19:31 benabik 10.6 was the first OS not to support it, released 6/8/09
19:31 benabik Sorry, 8/28
19:31 whiteknight that's....a while ago
19:31 nine Let's not forget that nci.t also gives problems on Linux/i386
19:31 whiteknight Next up from Captain Obvious: The sky is up! The ground is down!
19:32 whiteknight nine: I had forgotten about those.
19:32 whiteknight I need to fire up a VM
19:32 benabik The only other place I can think of that uses PPC is some old Sun boxes.
19:32 whiteknight benabik: access to one of those is even less likely
19:33 nine any ideas how I could run this test really slowed down?
19:33 benabik whiteknight: I might still have access to a couple at school, but the sysadmin was pretty set on trying to remove student access to them (or remove them completely)
19:33 whiteknight sounds like we may need to go dumpster diving
19:33 whiteknight nine: What do you mean?
19:35 nine if the problems are timing related, my two months old i7 is not gonna reproduce them... I need it to slow down
19:36 whiteknight Create a VM. 1 core. limited ram.
19:36 whiteknight Compile GCC in the background
19:37 whiteknight in each of three or four separate shells
19:37 benabik O.o
19:38 nine Last time I used like 30 cat /dev/random > /dev/null on my quad core laptop. qemu might give me a head start :)
19:39 moritz just compile rakudo a few times in parallel
19:40 moritz until your machine swaps
19:44 whiteknight The last two times I tried Rakudo spectest, my computer crashed. But that's because I've got various hardware problems and need to get it cleaned
19:44 dalek nqp/toqast: 200e52f | jnthn++ | src/QAST/Operations.nqp:
19:44 dalek nqp/toqast: Implement a vivify op.
19:44 dalek nqp/toqast: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/200e52fe71
19:44 dalek nqp/toqast: 4f2cb27 | jnthn++ | src/QRegex/P6Regex/Actions.nqp:
19:44 dalek nqp/toqast: Add (not really done yet) QAST variants of various things in QRegex::P6Regex::Actions.
19:44 dalek nqp/toqast: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/4f2cb273f4
19:45 dalek rakudo/toqast: 5a7d74b | jnthn++ | src/QPerl6/Actions.pm:
19:45 dalek rakudo/toqast: Unbustify smartmatching.
19:45 dalek rakudo/toqast: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/5a7d74b68f
19:46 dalek rakudo/toqast: 815a09e | jnthn++ | src/QPerl6/Actions.pm:
19:46 dalek rakudo/toqast: Fix a couple of .type => .returns.
19:46 dalek rakudo/toqast: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/815a09e697
19:46 dalek rakudo/toqast: 197f1ea | jnthn++ | src/QPerl6/ (2 files):
19:46 dalek rakudo/toqast: Add perl6_assert_bind_ok => p6bindassert.
19:46 dalek rakudo/toqast: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/197f1ea0d7
19:46 dalek rakudo/toqast: fe865e9 | jnthn++ | src/QPerl6/Actions.pm:
19:46 dalek rakudo/toqast: Update compilation of attribute access.
19:46 dalek rakudo/toqast: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/fe865e9e08
19:46 dalek rakudo/toqast: 83c62e8 | jnthn++ | src/QPerl6/Actions.pm:
19:46 dalek rakudo/toqast: A couple more small qastifications.
19:46 dalek rakudo/toqast: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/83c62e8811
19:58 whiteknight wowsers. I love watching big streams of nqp and rakudo commits
19:59 rurban whiteknight: kid51 has such a PPC machine available. ask him for ssh access
20:00 benabik I think it's a G4 laptop, not a server.  :-/
20:00 * benabik could be wrong though.
20:00 rurban yes, a tiny and slow machine
20:00 benabik More to the point "not something that's online regularly"
20:00 rurban He had it at the YAPC US in madison. I saw it
20:02 rurban Still faster than a qemu software-simulated instance
20:04 whiteknight I put out a call for help on Facebook. See if anybody I know has an old machine to donate to the cause
20:06 rurban I am trying this out now: http://people.debian.org/~aurel32/qemu/powerpc/
20:06 whiteknight I think I need to install qemu
20:07 rurban sure :)
20:08 rurban Mu HW accelerated kvm images are faster then real servers
20:11 rurban Whow, this is fast. Looks like a workable image. qemu-system-ppc -hda debian_lenny_powerpc_standard.qcow2
20:12 rurban I'll try out a sparc64 with solaris also then.
20:12 whiteknight heh, nice
20:28 Coke nine: use sleep opcode?
20:28 rurban Setting up a new bridge between the qemu machines is not so easy.
20:30 benabik Hm.  Winxed heredocs can't have anything after their terminator.
21:11 benabik Is there an easy way to get a Packfile PMC from a PackfileView?
21:15 benabik Hm.  I could get/set_pointer, but I don't think those are accessible from inside the VM...
21:17 benabik I could serialize/unpack but that's kinda wasteful.
21:18 benabik msg whiteknight Is there an easy way to get a Packfile PMC from a PackfileView?  "Best" way I see now is to call PackfileView.serialize and Packfile.unpack.  But that, IIUC, results in two copies of the Packfile being loaded.
21:18 aloha OK. I'll deliver the message.
21:19 nine Good night, #parrot
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