Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #parrot, 2013-03-24

Parrot | source cross referenced

| Channels | #parrot index | Today | | Search | Google Search | Plain-Text | summary

All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:54 contingencyplan joined #parrot
00:54 Patterner joined #parrot
00:54 slavorg joined #parrot
00:54 janus joined #parrot
00:54 perlite joined #parrot
00:54 particle joined #parrot
00:54 Timbus joined #parrot
00:54 cxreg joined #parrot
00:54 Hunger joined #parrot
00:54 jsut joined #parrot
00:54 PerlJam joined #parrot
00:54 dukeleto joined #parrot
00:54 prammer joined #parrot
00:54 drift joined #parrot
00:54 wagle joined #parrot
00:54 dngor joined #parrot
00:54 mj41 joined #parrot
00:54 ingy joined #parrot
00:54 sri joined #parrot
00:54 cosimo_ joined #parrot
00:54 moritz joined #parrot
00:54 Tene joined #parrot
00:54 allison joined #parrot
00:54 knewt joined #parrot
00:54 patspam_ joined #parrot
00:54 Coke joined #parrot
00:54 pjcj joined #parrot
00:54 pmichaud joined #parrot
00:54 p6eval joined #parrot
00:54 elmex joined #parrot
00:55 mtk joined #parrot
00:55 sivoais joined #parrot
00:55 atrodo joined #parrot
00:55 tokuhirom joined #parrot
00:55 japhb joined #parrot
00:55 cotto joined #parrot
00:55 rurban joined #parrot
00:55 chekkaa joined #parrot
00:55 Khisanth joined #parrot
01:06 kid51 joined #parrot
01:51 chekkaa joined #parrot
02:11 kid51_ joined #parrot
03:38 preflex_ joined #parrot
03:56 myhrlin joined #parrot
04:06 myhrlin joined #parrot
04:27 perlite joined #parrot
04:28 eternaleye joined #parrot
05:02 dalek parrot: d7db4f5 | util++ | MANIFEST:
05:02 dalek parrot: Fix MANIFEST from merge of branch "ffa_sort"
05:02 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/d7db4f5ee2
05:02 dalek parrot: a3c2754 | util++ | / (2 files):
05:02 dalek parrot: Fix POD from merge of branch "ffa_sort"
05:02 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/a3c275418a
05:02 dalek parrot: 5120d02 | util++ | src/io/utilities.c:
05:02 dalek parrot: Revert "Merge pull request #943 from gerdr/fix-socket-readline"
05:02 dalek parrot:
05:02 dalek parrot: This reverts commit fb2e9570d25950c568edc50c1f9f5b1e0275bc2a, reversing
05:02 dalek parrot: changes made to 83bb8639bc79699a16d594d53ca8abd92788ab03.
05:02 dalek parrot:
05:02 dalek parrot: This is needed for the duration of the 5.2.0 release process, because the
05:02 dalek parrot: branch was merged prematurely, and causes test failures. When the branch is
05:02 dalek parrot: in a completed state, and ready to merge, it is important that a
05:02 dalek parrot: "revert-the-revert" is performed just before the merge:
05:02 dalek parrot:     git revert ID-of-*this*-revert
05:02 dalek parrot: For rationale, see:
05:02 dalek parrot: https://www.kernel.org/pub/software/scm/​git/docs/howto/revert-a-faulty-merge.txt
05:02 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/5120d027af
05:02 dalek parrot: dfc3d7c | util++ | / (7 files):
05:02 dalek parrot: Prepare for the 5.2.0 release
05:02 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/dfc3d7c34f
05:12 travis-ci joined #parrot
05:12 travis-ci [travis-ci] parrot/parrot#826 (master - dfc3d7c : Bruce Gray): The build passed.
05:12 travis-ci [travis-ci] Change view : https://github.com/parrot/parrot/c​ompare/d3bd99f652e8...dfc3d7c34f57
05:12 travis-ci [travis-ci] Build details : http://travis-ci.org/parrot/parrot/builds/5752380
05:12 travis-ci left #parrot
05:25 cosimo joined #parrot
05:25 simcop2387 joined #parrot
05:28 arnsholt joined #parrot
07:20 xcombelle joined #parrot
09:07 dalek rakudo/nom: b972ca3 | (Tobias Leich)++ | src/Perl6/ (3 files):
09:07 dalek rakudo/nom: fixed spello as diakopter++ pointed out
09:07 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/b972ca3987
11:37 PacoAir joined #parrot
12:45 kid51_ joined #parrot
14:15 myhrlin joined #parrot
14:22 Psyche^ joined #parrot
14:32 ptc kid51: hi kid51, how's things?
14:35 kid51 ptc: Good.
14:35 kid51 Spending more time these days in perl5-porters than in parrot
14:36 kid51 But, since, things like parrot guts are not my specialty, and since perl5 components of parrot are stable, that's okay
14:37 ptc what are you working on in perl5-porters?
14:37 kid51 Much the same sort of stuff I did in Parrot
14:37 kid51 reviewing old bug tickets, trying to get them closed
14:38 kid51 trying to be a first responder on new tickets
14:38 ptc yeah, trying to see if I can do a bit of that in parrot :-)
14:38 ptc there's quite a lot to do
14:38 kid51 Recently added a lot of tests to Data-Dumper to boost its test coverage
14:38 ptc I also need to get up to speed with where the project currently is... it's been a while
14:39 kid51 Well, our momentum really slowed from about Sept 2011 onward
14:39 ptc why?
14:40 kid51 Well, everyone has his opinion about that
14:40 ptc oh
14:40 kid51 For example, chromatic (modernperlbooks.com) has been proclaiming Parrot dead for > 1 year
14:41 ptc that's not good; chromatic was a big influence when I was still active in parrot.
14:41 kid51 He has some valid points, but the surprising thing was that as he was nailing the coffin shut, the decedent woke up
14:41 kid51 Well, here's what's probably important ...
14:42 kid51 Parrot is intended to be "a virtual machine aimed at all dynamic languages"
14:42 kid51 So, who are its human users?
14:42 kid51 Its customers?
14:42 kid51 Language designers and implementers.
14:42 kid51 A very small number of people.
14:43 ptc there are heaps of people involved in the devel of p5, p6, ruby, python etc...
14:43 ptc is that then not large enough?
14:43 kid51 So, unless you get a large %age of those small people saying, "Our current VMs are inadequate," you don't have an inherently large demand for your product/project.
14:43 ptc ture
14:44 ptc s/ture/true/
14:44 ptc it's a pity really.  It's a great idea, and the project seemed to be moving so well
14:44 kid51 After all, the hassle of writing a new interpreter for your current HLL has to be less than the hassle of using your current interpreter for it to be worth your while
14:46 ptc of course.  Hard to sell...
14:46 kid51 So that means that, when it came to anything other than Perl 6, it was difficult for us to attract n > 1 developers for any given HLL at any one point in time.
14:46 dalek parrot: 7c0d17e | paultcochrane++ | t/pmc/resizablefloatarray.t:
14:46 dalek parrot: [GH #927] Added tests for sort() method of ResizableFloatArray PMC
14:46 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/7c0d17ef7c
14:46 dalek parrot: 76e83f7 | paultcochrane++ | t/pmc/resizablefloatarray.t:
14:46 dalek parrot: [GH# 927] Test output more specific wrt how float array was resized
14:46 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/76e83f7ed0
14:46 dalek parrot: fee04de | paultcochrane++ | t/pmc/resizablefloatarray.t:
14:46 dalek parrot: [GH #927] Test sort() after unshift in ResizableFloatArray
14:46 dalek parrot:
14:46 dalek parrot: It's probably a good idea to check if sorting after an unshift works as well
14:46 dalek parrot: as the currently available tests for simply sorting and for sorting after a
14:46 dalek parrot: push.  This way we test the interaction between resizing and sorting.
14:46 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/fee04de31a
14:46 dalek parrot: 829fa8f | dukeleto++ | t/pmc/resizablefloatarray.t:
14:46 dalek parrot: Merge pull request #947 from paultcochrane/ptc/resizable_float_array_sort_test
14:46 dalek parrot:
14:46 dalek parrot: Added tests for sort() method in ResizableFloatArray PMC
14:46 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/829fa8f119
14:47 kid51 This means that we essentially only had one customer for our potential product: Perl 6
14:47 kid51 Which leads to two questions:
14:47 kid51 1. How much does Perl 6 (Rakudo) want Parrot?
14:48 kid51 2. How much does anyone want Perl 6?
14:48 kid51 The answers to those questions will have a strong effect on how many volunteers each project attracts.
14:48 ptc true.  and p5 is still so good and so actively developed
14:49 kid51 Yes, so much so that Perl 6 cannot be viewed as the *successor* to Perl 5, but only as the *sibling* to Perl 5.
14:50 kid51 But that sibling needs to develop a base of users whom it can serve better than P5 for certain applications.
14:50 kid51 Most open source projects fail.
14:51 kid51 They only survive 2-3 years.
14:51 kid51 By that criterion, neither Parrot nor Perl 6 is a failure.
14:51 kid51 But it's nonetheless true that after a certain passage of time, an OS project has to develop a user base to survive or thrive.
14:52 ptc so those were chromatic's arguments?  Or has that sort of crystalised out of the discussion?
14:53 kid51 See modernperlbooks.com
14:54 kid51 This, of course, gets tangled up in Perl 5 vs. Perl 6 debates.
14:54 ptc oh, ok
14:58 kid51 So, Parrot's current challenge is to (re-)recruit volunteers who can provide a VM that meets some of Rakudo's needs ... even while Rakudo aims to develop on multiple VMs (JVM, .net)
14:58 kid51 Rakudo, in turn, faces its own challenges ...
14:58 kid51 ... but I don't follow Rakudo closely enough to be able to comment intelligently on those.
14:59 kid51 But i want perl6/rakudo to succeed, if only because of my respect for TimToady and pmichaud
15:03 myhrlin I heard about this
15:03 myhrlin it's the main reason I joined the channel just to see if it was true :-/
15:04 masak interesting discussion.
15:05 masak I can represent the Rakudo side of it, if anyone wants details from that group. :)
15:05 masak as a frequent *user* of Rakudo, I can see how Parrot has allowed Rakudo to progress/develop in some ways, and hindered development in other ways.
15:07 kid51 Yes ..
15:07 masak as a Perl 6 programmer, I believe Perl 6 has many advantages over Perl 5. they're not too apparent yet, and with the wrong sets of decisions over enough time, they never will be.
15:07 masak but plenty of things are making me hopeful for Perl 6's future.
15:07 masak as for Parrot, I'm less sure. but I'm also less involved.
15:10 masak Allison says that Parrot is a success in the sense that it instigated the JVM and the CLR to support dynamic languages. that's a sad kind of victory, though.
15:10 kid51 I didn't know that that was the case ... or that Allison had said as much.
15:11 kid51 If that's so, that explains why, e.g., Jonathan has spent so much effort on building Rakudo on those VMs
15:11 allison Not in the sense that it's the *only* success of parrot.
15:12 allison But, it was a huge impact parrot had.
15:12 allison Personally, I think Perl 6 has little hope of real success on JVM/.Net
15:12 allison it's the wrong market
15:13 allison Java and C# people scorn the very idea of Perl
15:13 masak we'll see.
15:13 allison and Perl people hate Java and C#
15:13 masak you could say the same of Python and Ruby people, I guess. and those have projects on those VMs.
15:13 allison it's a match made in some kind of 9th underworld
15:14 allison Python was quite welcoming to Parrot, and to alternate VMs in general
15:14 kid51 And Parrot has much more of an incentive to be responsive to the needs of Rakudo than do JVM/.Net.
15:14 allison Ruby pretty much ignores the alternate VMs
15:14 kid51 allison: It's good to have that cross-HLL perspective.
15:14 masak two years ago, I said "Parrot is a foundering project on top of a wonderful vision". it got perpetuated as a parrot-dev thread. two years later, I stand by that description.
15:15 allison I'd say Parrot is a foundering project dedecated to supporting a foundering vision
15:16 kid51 the foundering vision being "... VM aimed at all dynamic PLs" ?
15:16 allison neither is fatal, but it's certainly a warning sign worth looking at
15:16 allison yes, that, but also Perl 6
15:16 masak there are many beautifyl goals in there: an open-source VM for dynamic languages. an ecosystem of HLLs borrowing the best parts from each other. excellent threading and garbage collection. none of those have been achieved. (yet.)
15:16 kid51 allison: can you be more specific re Perl 6?
15:17 allison So, you know how when relationships fail, it's pretty much always the responsibility of both parties?
15:17 kid51 I'm told that's true ;-)
15:17 allison You can never say "It's all Bob's fault" or "It's all Martha's fault"
15:18 kid51 allison: I simply don't follow P6 enough to know what its status/vision is
15:18 allison I'm fully ready to say that Parrot has been part of the problem in the Perl 6/Parrot relationship trouble.
15:18 kid51 I don't have the tuits for that on top of everything else.
15:18 allison But, I really wish Rakudo folks would take responsibility for their own less-than-helpful actions.
15:19 allison And their own less-than-realistic ideas.
15:19 kid51 Well, I'm less focused on the Perl 6/Parrot relationship problems.
15:19 kid51 Those would be less critical if there were a larger user base.
15:20 allison kid51: leave aside the human tension, that mainly grows out of project tension
15:20 allison Just look at it purely as a project management problem.
15:20 kid51 P5P, I find, has some appalling problems, but the size of the user base means we don't get consumed by those problems
15:20 allison I was, for several years, the project manager of Perl 6.
15:21 allison And I look back at my mistakes and see the seeds of where we are today.
15:21 masak interesting.
15:21 allison The point when I took over from Nat was approximately when we realized Perl 6 wasn't going to be done in 6 months.
15:22 allison Or even a year.
15:22 allison But, we still all hoped it would be done in, say, 2 years.
15:22 masak there's a 2002 quote from TimToady saying, essentially "it gets done when it gets done".
15:22 kid51 That was in about 2003, IIRC?
15:23 kid51 masak:  But that's not just a TimToady thing ... It's similar to Debian's "We release when it's ready"
15:23 allison kid51: I got involved in 2002, don't recall exactly when I took the PM hat
15:23 allison kid51: yes, but Debian's "release when it's ready" is every 2 years
15:23 allison like clockwork
15:23 allison they're talking delays in months
15:23 allison not decades
15:24 * kid51 heard a talk by Debian project leader at Google in NYC this past week
15:24 allison I took a very "pacific" line as project manager.
15:24 allison "Don't worry about the setbacks, we'll get there"
15:24 allison "Keep at it"
15:24 allison The same with Dan and Leon
15:24 allison Leo
15:25 allison "It's okay, just try to work together"
15:25 allison over and over again, calming
15:25 kid51 And I, as a Parrot contributor/advocate, took exactly the same approach, FBOW
15:25 ptc those aren't bad premises
15:25 allison I sometimes wonder what would have happened if I took a whip to folks
15:26 ptc it's a huge idea, and was obvious that it would take ages to reach the final goal
15:26 allison If I told them "the only way this project will succeed is if you ship something *right now*"
15:26 kid51 Well, in 2010-11, I didn't take a whip to folks, but I did advocate structure.
15:26 allison It doesn't have to be perfect, just ship
15:26 kid51 That approach was ulttimately rejected.
15:26 ptc allison: agreed
15:26 allison ptc: that wasn't obvious, in fact the first idea was that it would only be a few quick fixes to Perl 5
15:27 ptc that's effectively agile devel...
15:27 allison ptc: that "would take ages" story was added later
15:27 kid51 Yes.  A shippable product would have led to more users.  More users would have led to more contributors.  More contributors increase chance of solving remaining problems.
15:27 allison ptc: as a justification for the delays
15:27 ptc aha
15:27 allison ptc: but it was never the original idea
15:28 ptc i meant the idea of parrot in the beginning was a huge idea.
15:28 masak allison: from my perspective, when Parrot got started, we simply didn't have enough "domain knowledge" to build Perl 6. (we got much of that 2008-now. )since Parrot needs to support Perl 6, it also needs to factor in that domain knowledge. I wonder how much of the team friction came from that knowledge crunching changing the goalposts for both teams.
15:28 allison ptc: not really, even Parrot was just supposed to be Perl 5 + threading and unicode, at first
15:28 ptc i think you did a great job taking over from Dan and Leo
15:28 ptc oh
15:29 allison masak: but that knowledge could have been developed on a *shipping product*
15:29 allison masak: and that would have totally changed the game
15:29 allison masak: look at Perl 5 today
15:29 allison masak: and everything that's changed since it first launched
15:30 allison masak: that's totally the "academic" persepective, that you have to know everything before shipping anything
15:30 masak it's possible I completely don't understand what this great "shipping product" of yours is. I assume it isn't as simple as making monthly releases, which both Parrot and Rakudo have been doing for ages.
15:30 allison (which is why academics don't ship products)
15:31 masak no-one more than us wants our software to find actual use.
15:31 allison masak: it requires shipping something that's stable and usable in production
15:31 allison masak: and doesn't keep ripping the carpet out from under its users
15:31 masak ...and in order to get there, you need users who use the product, submit bugs, and polish it.
15:31 masak I am a firm disbeliever in magical robustness.
15:32 allison masak: which Parrot tried to do in 2009 with the 1.0 release, but Rakudo couldn't make the transition
15:32 masak wow, things really do look different from there, don't they? :)
15:32 allison and, to be honest, neither could most of the Parrot developers :)
15:33 allison masak: how do you support production users then, if not by giving them stability?
15:33 masak I agree stability is a very important desirable. it's right up there with features and performance.
15:34 allison a small set of stable features is more useful than a large set of unstable features
15:34 masak all I'm saying is that any product will need to gradually reach stability. its velocity to reaching stability is the integral under the curve of alpha users.
15:34 allison And I'm saying it should be stable from the start, release early, release often.
15:34 allison Stability is not a finish line, it's a daily practice.
15:35 masak your model of the actual state of affairs is so different from mine that I don't even find a point where I disagree with you... :)
15:35 allison Where would Twitter be if they said "oh, we can worry about stability later, let's just add more features"
15:36 masak I don't believe the Rakudo team misspent their time adding features in the 2007-2010 period, though.
15:36 masak and a great deal of the lack of stability was to be found in the Parrot layer.
15:36 masak (and it got fixed over time, because we had those features)
15:37 allison No, and to be fair, Rakudo entered the party with a 5 year legacy of delays that weren't their fault at all :)
15:37 allison (that is "No, the Rakudo team didn't misspend 2007-2010")
15:38 masak *nod*
15:38 masak when I look back over the past decade, I see a clear progression of ideas that make each layer better with time.
15:38 allison but still not actually usable
15:39 allison Which, makes it a really neat academic project.
15:39 masak the layers being runtime, type system, OO model, MOP, grammar, VM.
15:39 masak allison: you're neither completely wrong nor completely right.
15:40 masak allison: be aware that you make my blood boil by saying that a language which I profitably use every day is "not actually usable".
15:40 masak allison: that feels deeply unfair. especially as we're working day-to-day at making it *more* usable, and a comment like that *slows us down* by altering the perception of others.
15:40 kid51 masak: How do you profit by it?  How many other people do so?
15:40 allison sadly, you don't really count as a user, just a bleeding edge enthusiast
15:40 masak allison: granted, but it's still a sliding scale.
15:40 arnsholt What's a user, if not someone using the language?
15:41 masak kid51: I profit by it by having code execute which pays my bills. there aren't enough other people doing so.
15:41 arnsholt Admittedly, some users are more advanced than others, but in the end we're all users if we use the thing
15:41 allison arnsholt: someone who is using the language, not because they're a developer on the language
15:41 masak allison: saying "you don't really count as user" does nothing to cool me down. I don't like when you say that.
15:41 allison arnsholt: Using my own software doesn't count as "getting users"
15:41 moritz of course if you find reasons to discount all the users, you're left with a count of zero
15:42 allison masak: the point is not to make you angry
15:42 masak allison: please consider being kinder to a developing project. a *still* developing project, after 13 years.
15:42 allison masak: the point is to make you *calmly* realize that there is work to be done
15:42 masak allison: we're making nice progress, on many levels. please don't say "Perl 6 has zero users".
15:42 moritz we're well aware that there's work to be done
15:42 masak that's why we're doing it ;)
15:42 moritz diminishing the current state doesn't help at all
15:43 allison masak: If you stop at "it makes me so angry when people say Perl 6 has no users", you won't get to "hey, really, why don't we have more users and how do we fix that?"
15:43 masak I'd like to point out that even though both I and moritz have nicks starting with 'm', we're two distinct people. both of us are Perl 6 users, by the way.
15:43 moritz and fwiw we have users that aren't also developing the language
15:43 moritz so, please stop the trolling that we don't have users. Once and for all.
15:43 masak allison: no, it makes me angrey when *you* say that Perl 6 has no users. you should know better.
15:44 masak allison: so should chromatic.
15:44 allison masak: look, I'm a business owner, I know about selling products
15:44 kid51 moritz: I don't know who those users are.  Do they, e.g., post blogs about how they use Perl 6?
15:44 allison masak: and so is chromatic
15:44 moritz kid51, allison: fwiw we receive about two new submissions of Perl 6 modules written by people we have never heard of
15:44 moritz who never submitted patches to rakudo, niecza or any other Perl 6 compiler project
15:44 * kid51 is *not* a business owner, but even I know you got to have customers
15:45 allison masak: we would both like to see a whole lot more of the "let's sell this" perspective in Perl 6
15:45 moritz and then they come forth and publish a whole MODULE written in Perl 6
15:45 allison masak: and instead, we see a lot of "no really, it's all good"
15:45 moritz so, these are certainly users.
15:45 masak I wasn't saying it's all good.
15:45 allison masak: which doesn't inspire confidence
15:45 tadzik also, there is Perl 6 DarkPAN
15:45 tadzik there are modules on github which we've never heard of
15:45 masak I was saying *we have users*.
15:45 kid51 By contrast, during the lifetime of Perl 6/Parrot, we have had new technologies in the Perl 5 world -- Moose, Catalyst, Dancer, etc. -- which we know have many production users.
15:45 allison Great, so when do we see ActivePerl 6?
15:46 allison When do we see Mojolicious 6?
15:46 moritz we are well aware that our numbers are more in the dozens or hundreds than in the millions
15:46 allison dozens or hundreds doesn't count
15:46 allison that's ALGOL
15:46 kid51 moritz: What can you do to get those dozens or hundreds talking about their use of Perl 6?
15:46 moritz why doesn't it count, as long as it's groing?
15:46 allison that's "it was a neat idea"
15:47 allison is it?
15:47 allison do you have statistics?
15:47 moritz kid51: we can ask them
15:47 sri allison: as soon as perl6 can do everything perl5 (core) can do at about the same speed
15:47 * sri is quite interested in a perl6 port of mojolicious actually
15:48 allison sri: but see, that's just the *beginning* of the curve. Python 3 has shown that
15:48 allison Python 3 actually did "just ship it"
15:48 allison and, they're still not getting adoption, years later
15:48 masak they are, just slowly.
15:48 sri many big python projects have still not been ported
15:48 allison yup, and Perl 6 can expect no greater speed
15:49 masak if I were a Python 2.6 user, I would also wait at this point, especially if not all of the dependencies to my project weren't ported yet.
15:49 sri or only recently, like django
15:49 allison which is exactly what people are doing, waiting
15:49 moritz python 3 has the problem that they don#t have a very good answer to the "what do you offer that Python 2 doesn't have?" question
15:49 allison and the dependencies have dependencies
15:49 moritz Perl 6 doesn't have any problem with that particular question
15:49 allison well, really, it does
15:50 moritz it's really about speed, stabilty and modules
15:50 allison it has some cool syntax improvements
15:50 masak it goes deeper than that.
15:50 allison but Perl 6 has none of those
15:50 sri allison: don't underestimate the appeal of killer features though, perl6 can be substantially better than perl5, especially when it comes to threads
15:50 sri python3 has no real killer features
15:50 allison sri: yes, perl6 has *potential*, but hasn't actually delivered any advantages... yet
15:51 arnsholt There are questions Perl 6 has problems answering currently, but "what can you offer that's new" sure isn't one of them
15:51 sri right
15:51 allison arnsholt: except that people don't just want "new" they want something that will improve their bottom line
15:52 allison arnsholt: so it needs to be a cold, hard "this will enable you to work faster, stronger"
15:52 allison arnsholt: a few bits of syntax don't offer anything there
15:52 arnsholt Don't confuse what you want and what everyone else wants. Sure, that's where we need to be to get a good ecosystem going, but first adopters have different motivations
15:52 arnsholt And let's not kid ourselves here. That's where we are at the moment, like it or not
15:53 allison arnsholt: (and I say this with full awareness that some of those bits of syntax were created by a much younger me)
15:53 allison arnsholt: oh, no, I'd love it if the whole world were as fascinated with syntax as I am
15:53 allison arnsholt: I'm a linguist, like Larry :)
15:54 allison arnsholt: but syntax doesn't sell a language
15:54 allison arnsholt: getting things done is what sells a language
15:54 kid51 Will Perl 6 have presentations at YAPC::NA::2013 in Austin?
15:54 moritz kid51: yes
15:54 sri the type system alone will make it rather easy to sell to perl5 folks
15:54 masak allison: I know both you and chromatic have Perl 6's best interests at heart. but standing by the sidelines and saying "no, you're not doing it right. your priorities are wrong. if you did statistics, you'd see that you are irrelevant and not growing fast enough" is *not helping*. it's your choice what you choose to do, but I'd prefer if you didn't not help.
15:54 kid51 moritz: Can you be specific?
15:55 allison masak: well, I did cancel my astrophysics class this year to work on Parrot
15:55 masak kid51: I can be specific. but I'm not sure how much I can say yet.
15:55 allison masak: but then got sucked into 80 hour weeks at work
15:55 moritz kid51: I'm pretty sure that jnthn, pmichaud and diakopter at least will be talking about Perl 6
15:55 moritz and i guess masak++ too
15:55 masak yes.
15:55 moritz but there's no official schedule yet
15:55 masak people are working on it.
15:55 allison masak: If I had any indication that you're actually listening to what I'm saying, I'd be much more comfortable settling down and leaving you to get on with it
15:56 allison masak: it's the denial that makes me angry
15:56 masak allison: yes, we're not getting across to each other.
15:56 kid51 moritz: That would be good. pmichaud's lightning talk last year was inspiring ... but it should have been transcribed into a blog post or something (not just a video)
15:56 masak allison: I'd just like to add that I respect you, and seem to get along with you well in person.
15:56 masak allison: maybe IRC isn't the medium for this.
15:56 masak Twitter sure isn't with chromatic ;)
15:56 allison masak: I don't understand what's so difficult about it.
15:57 masak allison: you say "it's the denial that makes me angry", I say "stop saying that Perl 6 doesn't have users".
15:57 allison masak: "Perl 6 is not a successful language"
15:57 allison masak: is that untrue?
15:57 masak no, it pretty much sums it up.
15:57 allison masak: it's not a personal attack
15:57 masak didn't say it was.
15:58 masak I said "stop saying that Perl 6 doesn't have users".
15:58 allison but it doesn'
15:58 allison doesn't
15:58 masak aarrrrgh
15:58 moritz but it does
15:58 allison truth is truth
15:58 moritz it doesn't have so many that you consider them as "counting"
15:58 moritz but it still *has* users
15:58 masak I did that rather than kicking allison ;)
15:58 masak allison: Perl 6 *does* have users!
15:58 masak allison: please, *please* stop saying it doesn't!
15:58 allison masak: that's semantics
15:59 masak NO.
15:59 moritz semantics are important
15:59 allison I can say "Perl 6 has 100 users"
15:59 moritz allison: that's much better than saying "Perl 6 has no users"
15:59 masak the definition of "no users" is *pretty clear*.
15:59 allison and everyone in the world will say "that's no users at all"
15:59 kid51 masak: Then, let's hear about your users ... your users who are not also P6 developers and who are using P6 in production situations in businesses or governments or such.
15:59 masak kid51: that's not fair and you know it.
15:59 allison masak: it is fair
16:00 kid51 masak: It is fair.
16:00 allison masak: it's a completely logical definition of the problem
16:00 kid51 And even if it weren't fair, it *is* the question I get asked about Perl 6
16:00 masak Perl 6 will get different users at different stages.
16:00 allison we have to identify the *problem* before we can create a *solution*
16:00 masak it's not yet at the stage where it gets users in government.
16:00 kid51 masak:  Tell us about its *current* users
16:00 allison masak: right and *that* is the problem
16:00 masak its current users develop modules and put them on modules.perl6.org
16:01 allison it has developers and bleeding edge enthusiasts
16:01 masak its current users think about how to use grammars and the MOP and macros to do cool things.
16:01 moritz and those are also users.
16:01 allison which is great progress
16:01 masak its current users write scripts at work to do parsing problems that would be possible but harder with Perl 5.
16:02 kid51 masak: Can you get those people to blog about that parsing ... or give talks at conferences?
16:02 masak its current users sometimes package the solutions that they had use for personally as a module and add it to the ecosystem.
16:02 allison can we agree that Perl 6 needs to have a goal of getting "real world, production users"
16:02 allison ?
16:02 masak kid51: sure. but the ratio between people who do stuff and people who talk about stuff stays pretty constant.
16:02 allison I don't care what we call them
16:02 moritz we can agree that Perl 6 needs more "real world, production users"
16:02 allison but Perl 6 doesn't have them, and it needs them
16:03 allison Is there any company, anywhere, running their live web service on Perl 6?
16:03 allison That is actually profitable?
16:03 moritz not their live web service
16:03 moritz but there's a startup doing business logic with Perl 6
16:03 moritz in the background
16:03 allison okay, then lets stick that as my definition
16:03 moritz no idea if they are profitable
16:04 allison Perl 6 needs a "profitable live web service" as a user.
16:04 moritz ok. But please continue to call it that way when you talk about it
16:04 masak what moritz said.
16:04 allison Really, you'd get a lot more credibility if you'd just say "yup, we have no users, and we need to work on that"
16:04 * sri wonders if perl6 i/o has improved in the last few months
16:04 masak allison: it may be just semantics, but it matters greatly to us in the trenches what you call it.
16:05 allison than quibbiling over whether your enthusiasts count as "users"
16:05 allison it looks petty
16:05 masak it matters because it becomes part of the perception.
16:05 masak if you publish stuff online saying "Perl 6 has no users", then it becomes more difficult to attract users.
16:05 allison stop worrying about perception
16:06 arnsholt allison: Your sophistry over what counts as a user and what doesn't looks equally petty, mind
16:06 allison the whole world things Perl 6 is a joke, you have to ignore them
16:06 allison thinks
16:06 kid51 masak: But to correct the perception, you need people who can step forward and say, e.g., "I am running a profitable live web service using Perl 6"
16:06 allison they're wrong, it's a great idea
16:06 allison but, you have to have a tough skin
16:06 allison don't get distracted
16:06 kid51 Similarly, those of us in Parrot need to be able to say, "Production users use a HLL which runs on Parrot"
16:07 allison you will never change their perspective by arguing
16:07 * sri takes back his statement from earlier that he wants perl6 to do everything perl5 does... the node.js feature set is actually a much better benchmark http://nodejs.org/api/
16:07 allison the *only* way to change their perspective is to prove them wrong
16:07 allison with rock-solid production users
16:07 allison that wildly successful startup, built on the back of Perl 6
16:07 allison that is what will prove them all wrong
16:07 allison nothing else will
16:08 moritz ok. What are you going to do about it?
16:08 allison work on parrot, when I can
16:08 masak allison: none of what you say is really news to me.
16:08 masak allison: we're working on making Rakudo a better platform for production users.
16:08 masak and working on things like documentation and packaging.
16:09 masak I'd like to think that I spend a good deal of time on productizing.
16:09 allison <sigh> it feels like trying to push jello
16:09 allison it always has
16:10 allison it just springs back to "it's okay, by Christmas"
16:10 allison it's not okay
16:10 allison Perl 6 is hurting Perl 5
16:10 masak no, things won't magically fall into place unless people work towards realizing them.
16:10 allison if Perl 6 isn't going to ship, I wish it would just go away
16:11 allison shut the doors
16:11 masak "Perl 6 is hurting Perl 5" feels like an antiquated world view at this point.
16:11 allison let Perl 5 go on to Perl 7
16:11 moritz *sigh*
16:11 moritz rakudo ships monthly
16:11 moritz it doesn't ship they way you want it to ship
16:11 masak allison: clearly you're not in touch with the Perl community when you say that.
16:11 moritz but please don't imply it doesn't ship.
16:11 allison masak: Perl 5 is my bread and butter
16:11 allison masak: I don't know what universe you're in
16:11 sri speaking as an outsider... i get the impression rakudo development is too focused on polishing the core language, and doesn't pay enough attention to the stdlib
16:11 moritz it's such unqualified FUD which really hurts Perl 6
16:12 moritz sri: that may well be the case
16:12 kid51 masak: While I don't agree with Allison on P5 vs P6, there are *many* people in the P5 world who say precisely that, i.e., let's skip over to perl 7
16:12 moritz sri: we really need to find somebody who takes IO into his hands
16:12 allison moritz: "shipping monthly" doesn't mean anything
16:12 masak kid51: assume for a moment you're right. so what? it's not going to happen.
16:13 moritz allison: likewise "doesn't ship" doesn't mean anything
16:13 moritz without further qualification
16:13 kid51 But I do think we need to hear from people who can forthrightly say, "Perl 6 is my bread and butter."
16:13 not_gerd joined #parrot
16:13 allison moritz: I didn't say "doesn't ship"
16:13 moritz 17:10 < allison> if Perl 6 isn't going to ship, I wish it would just go away
16:13 kid51 Just as at YAPCs, we hear from people who say, "Catalyst/Dancer/Mojolicious is my bread and butter."
16:14 moritz that kinda implies to me that you think it doesn't ship
16:14 moritz no?
16:14 * moritz really wastes his time here that he should spend hacking instead
16:14 moritz left #parrot
16:14 allison moritz: let's not get tangled in semantics
16:14 allison moritz: you know what I mean
16:15 allison okay
16:15 allison that is not a helpful attitude
16:15 ruoso_ joined #parrot
16:17 allison If it weren't for the fact that Perl 6 has had far too many forks, I'd be highly tempted to fork it again.
16:17 not_gerd sri: there were some io fixes in parrot 5.1.0 and 5.2.0, which Rakudo currently doesn't take advantage of as they default to 4.10.0
16:17 not_gerd sri: I've got a branch that fixes readline() for sockets
16:17 not_gerd (which needs more polish)
16:18 * kid51 builds master and hopes that test failures have been fixed
16:19 ptc kid51: they have; there was a revert earlier on today
16:19 not_gerd kid51: should be
16:19 not_gerd if it's still broken, I'm not to blame ;)
16:19 kid51 ptc, not_gerd: Many thanks
16:21 not_gerd kid51: thanks go Util, who also did the release
16:21 kid51 The weird thing about the above discussion is: Parrot has fewer users than Perl 6, but we're not in denial about it.
16:23 tadzik left #parrot
16:24 kid51 Success: http://smolder.parrot.org/app/​projects/report_details/39317
16:25 kid51 (linux/i386)
16:30 allison kid51: yes, there's a zen in that, accepting where you are
16:35 kid51 all g++ build: http://smolder.parrot.org/app/​projects/report_details/39320
16:37 moritz joined #parrot
16:38 moritz when I do a .send on a socket, is there any buffering going on?
16:39 moritz because it seems the IRC server doesn't receive the JOIN #channel lines
16:51 not_gerd moritz: looking at the code, it appears to be unbuffered by default (but of course I might have missed something)
16:51 not_gerd socket initialization is a bit messy
16:51 moritz not_gerd: thanks
16:51 moritz I'm now trying to get netcat to dump me a copy of the traffic
16:51 moritz so that I can be sure of the problem
16:53 not_gerd you could also check the write_buffer attribute on your PIO handle
16:55 xcombelle joined #parrot
17:01 moritz ok, turns out it's not a problem with with parrot sockets at all
17:14 masak moritz: ooc, what was the problem?
17:15 moritz masak: see #perl6
17:18 masak oh!
17:18 masak lazy for loops strike again... :)
17:20 ptc is there a policy as to what should go into .gitignore and what shouldn't?
17:20 dalek parrot: 216da7f | paultcochrane++ | t/pmc/resizableintegerarray.t:
17:20 dalek parrot: [GH #926] Add a test for sort method of ResizableIntegerArray PMC
17:20 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/216da7fe17
17:20 dalek parrot: f361d1a | paultcochrane++ | t/pmc/resizableintegerarray.t:
17:20 dalek parrot: [GH #926] Extended sort() tests of ResizableIntegerArray PMC
17:20 dalek parrot:
17:20 ptc I grepped the sources but couldn't find any policy...
17:20 dalek parrot: The tests of the sort() method weren't testing that after resizing the
17:20 dalek parrot: array, that the sort() method still works (the array is resizable after all
17:20 dalek parrot: :-) ).  This commit adds these extra tests.
17:20 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/f361d1a231
17:20 dalek parrot: bcc8fac | dukeleto++ | t/pmc/resizableintegerarray.t:
17:20 dalek parrot: Merge pull request #946 from paultcochrane/ptc/resizable_int_array_sort_test
17:20 dalek parrot:
17:20 dalek parrot: [GH #926] Add a test for sort method of ResizableIntegerArray PMC
17:20 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/bcc8fac776
17:22 ptc ... and does anyone have objections if I add *~, *gcov, *gcda, *gcno and *html to the main .gitnore?
17:23 dukeleto_tmp joined #parrot
17:24 dukeleto_tmp ptc: hola
17:24 not_gerd ptc: ooc, why *html?
17:24 dukeleto_tmp ptc: don't think we have a formal policy, feel free to propose one :)
17:24 dukeleto_tmp ptc: do you have questions? I am about to head out somewhere, but I was reading IRC logs and saw you asking questions :)
17:24 not_gerd also, aren't there some dots missing?
17:25 ptc not_gerd: because 'make cover' generates a lot of them...  Maybe I can just add better regexps for them
17:25 ptc dukeleto_tmp: hi
17:26 ptc dukeleto_tmp: I asked a couple of questions regarding tickets on github, but they can wait
17:26 dukeleto_tmp ptc: i either answered or merged :)
17:26 ptc dukeleto_tmp: aha.  cool, thanks :-)
17:27 ptc saw the merges, just haven't got around to checking the other stuff yet.
17:27 ptc Am working on sort benchmarks mentioned in GH #175 atm
17:27 dukeleto_tmp ptc: i haven't been on irc much lately, so feel free to email me if you have a question. duke at leto dot net
17:27 dukeleto_tmp ptc: awesome!
17:27 ptc dukeleto_tmp: cool, no worries
17:27 * dukeleto_tmp goes back into the meatspace
17:30 not_gerd bye, #parrot
17:31 not_gerd left #parrot
18:22 xcombelle_ joined #parrot
19:02 dalek nqp/vmarray-list: 2de3300 | (Arne Skjærholt)++ | src/6model/reprs/VMArray.c:
19:02 dalek nqp/vmarray-list: Implement copy_to in VMArray.
19:02 dalek nqp/vmarray-list: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/2de330087d
19:02 dalek nqp/vmarray-list: ee613a6 | (Arne Skjærholt)++ | src/ (2 files):
19:02 dalek nqp/vmarray-list: Remove dependencies on get_number VTABLE for nqp::list.
19:02 dalek nqp/vmarray-list:
19:02 dalek nqp/vmarray-list: When nqp::list was an RPA, this was fine, but due to a mismatch between
19:02 dalek nqp/vmarray-list: sixmodel and how Parrot expects PMCs to behave, it's easier to use nqp::elems
19:02 dalek nqp/vmarray-list: explicitly instead.
19:02 dalek nqp/vmarray-list: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/ee613a694a
19:02 dalek nqp/vmarray-list: 85bea1d | (Arne Skjærholt)++ | src/pmc/sixmodelobject.pmc:
19:02 dalek nqp/vmarray-list: Make sixmodelobject.pmc's VTABLE_does handle some Parrot types.
19:02 dalek nqp/vmarray-list:
19:02 dalek nqp/vmarray-list: Specifically, objects with the VMArray REPR return true for "array", and those
19:02 dalek nqp/vmarray-list: with VMHash true for "hash". This way, an nqp::list (and nqp::hash when that's
19:02 dalek nqp/vmarray-list: actually implemented) can be flattened into a subroutine call using Parrot's
19:02 dalek nqp/vmarray-list: :flat syntax.
19:02 dalek nqp/vmarray-list: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/85bea1d909
19:02 dalek nqp/vmarray-list: 6892934 | (Arne Skjærholt)++ | src/HLL/Compiler.pm:
19:02 dalek nqp/vmarray-list: Use list_s instead of list for string lists in HLL/Compiler.pm.
19:02 dalek nqp/vmarray-list: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/6892934cfe
19:02 dalek nqp/vmarray-list: 95084d2 | (Arne Skjærholt)++ | src/QAST/Compiler.nqp:
19:02 dalek nqp/vmarray-list: When converting Regex nodes in as_post, get PMC from cursor_start_all.
19:02 dalek nqp/vmarray-list:
19:02 dalek nqp/vmarray-list: This means we use a few more registers, but the new nqp::list only supports
19:02 dalek nqp/vmarray-list: fetching PMCs, so now it fetches PMCs from the list and then converts to int
19:02 dalek nqp/vmarray-list: or string by setting the appropriate kind of register.
19:02 dalek nqp/vmarray-list: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/95084d2b14
19:02 dalek nqp/vmarray-list: 22ecde9 | (Arne Skjærholt)++ | src/ (2 files):
19:02 dalek nqp/vmarray-list: Implement smart numification similar to how it works on JVM.
19:02 dalek nqp/vmarray-list: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/22ecde9493
19:02 dalek nqp/vmarray-list: a82ef51 | (Arne Skjærholt)++ | src/ (2 files):
19:02 dalek nqp/vmarray-list: Implement some of the scaffolding needed for proper HLL config.
19:02 dalek nqp/vmarray-list:
19:02 dalek nqp/vmarray-list: This also makes hlllist get the list type from the HLL config, rather than
19:02 dalek nqp/vmarray-list: being hardcoded to BOOTArray.
19:02 dalek nqp/vmarray-list: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/a82ef5199a
19:02 dalek nqp/vmarray-list: d52f45d | (Arne Skjærholt)++ | src/ (2 files):
19:02 dalek nqp/vmarray-list: Implement sethllconfig.
19:02 dalek nqp/vmarray-list: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/d52f45d897
19:02 dalek nqp/vmarray-list: d331b8c | (Arne Skjærholt)++ | src/core/NQPArray.pm:
19:02 dalek nqp/vmarray-list: Set NQPArray's boolspec and add it to the HLL config.
19:02 dalek nqp/vmarray-list: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/d331b8c742
19:02 dalek nqp/vmarray-list: 2c41d73 | (Arne Skjærholt)++ | src/ops/nqp.ops:
19:02 dalek nqp/vmarray-list: Tweak nfa_from_statelist to work with VMArray objects, rather than RPAs.
19:02 dalek nqp/vmarray-list: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/2c41d73448
19:09 benabik joined #parrot
19:52 contingencyplan joined #parrot
20:21 Util ptc: For policy, see docs/project/committer_guide.pod section "IGNORED FILES".
20:21 Util *.gcda, *.gcno, *.gcov are already in .gitignore; I do not object to the dotless forms being added, but I am curious why it is needed.
20:21 Util *~ is not generated by the parrot build process; you could add it to your personal ~/git/info/exclude .
20:21 ptc Util: hi
20:22 ptc Util: the gcda, gcno etc files turn up in the base dir.  Acutally, when I mentioned the files in irc I didn't include the dots, but in the patches I added them
20:23 ptc Util: thanks for the tip wrt git/info/exclude :-)
20:24 arnsholt For editor files, I recommend creating a file in ~ ignoring those and pointing git's core.excludesfile at it
20:25 arnsholt See also the FAQ section of https://github.com/tpope/vim-pathogen
20:25 ptc Util: thanks also for the link to the pod.  I did see that document, however, there wasn't any mention of how vim, emacs, etc. backup files were handled.
20:26 ptc arnsholt: thanks :-)
20:50 kurahaupo joined #parrot
21:10 ptc Util: comment about the *.gcda etc already being in .gitignore (finally) made me think.  I looked in .gitignore, but the files which are ignored are '/*.gcda' etc and not simply '*.gcda' etc.  This is most likely the reason that these files are turning up in my 'git status' output and is actually the change that should be implemented.  What do you think?
21:28 dalek parrot: 38f41b7 | paultcochrane++ | examples/benchmarks/sort.pir:
21:28 dalek parrot: [GH #175] sort.pir benchmark reports how many elements were sorted
21:28 dalek parrot:
21:28 dalek parrot: This gives us output which can be checked in the benchmarks.t test, such
21:28 dalek parrot: that the sort.pir test can be added to the benchmarks test suite
21:28 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/38f41b7c5d
21:28 dalek parrot: d3c828a | paultcochrane++ | t/benchmark/benchmarks.t:
21:28 dalek parrot: [GH #175] Add the sort benchmark to the benchmark test suite
21:28 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/d3c828ada8
21:28 dalek parrot: 43c83b1 | paultcochrane++ | examples/benchmarks/sort_ffa.pir:
21:28 dalek parrot: [GH #175] sort_ffa.pir benchmark prints number of elements sorted
21:28 dalek parrot:
21:28 dalek parrot: It's good to see that a program gives some output to the user, so that we
21:28 dalek parrot: know that *something* happened.  Now we have this output and can add the
21:28 dalek parrot: relevant search in the benchmarks.t test suite.
21:28 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/43c83b122d
21:28 dalek parrot: ae87849 | paultcochrane++ | t/benchmark/benchmarks.t:
21:28 dalek parrot: [GH #175] Added sort_ffa.pir benchmark to main benchmark suite
21:28 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/ae87849305
21:28 dalek parrot: 63affbc | paultcochrane++ | / (3 files):
21:28 dalek parrot: [GH #175] Renamed sort.pir benchmark to sort_fia.pir
21:28 dalek parrot:
21:28 dalek parrot: This makes it more obvious that this benchmark is for sorting
21:28 dalek parrot: FixedIntegerArrays in much the same way that sort_ffa.pir benchmarks sorting
21:28 dalek parrot: FixedFloatarrays
21:28 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/63affbcd32
21:28 dalek parrot: bd184ce | paultcochrane++ | examples/benchmarks/sort_fia.pir:
21:28 dalek parrot: [GH #175] Correct typo in sort_fia.pir POD
21:28 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/bd184cee45
21:28 dalek parrot: 7922f60 | paultcochrane++ | / (2 files):
21:28 dalek parrot: [GH #175] Added a sort benchmark for ResizableIntegerArrays
21:28 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/7922f605b1
21:28 dalek parrot: 8b8110c | paultcochrane++ | / (2 files):
21:28 dalek parrot: [GH #175] Added a sort benchmark for ResizableFloatArrays
21:28 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/8b8110cfb1
21:28 dalek parrot: 6a7f23f | dukeleto++ | / (6 files):
21:28 dalek parrot: Merge pull request #950 from paultcochrane/ptc/sort_benchmarks
21:28 dalek parrot:
21:28 dalek parrot: [GH #175] Slightly reorganise current and add new sort benchmarks
21:28 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/6a7f23f4b2
21:28 dalek parrot: bff647b | paultcochrane++ | config/gen/makefiles/root.in:
21:28 dalek parrot: Remove gcov-generated files in root parrot dir with 'make cover-clean'
21:28 dalek parrot:
21:29 dalek parrot: The *.gcov, *.gcda, *.gcno files, which are generated by gcov, are also
21:29 dalek parrot: output in the base parrot directory.  'make cover-clean' didn't remove these
21:29 dalek parrot: files.  This commit corrects this issue.
21:29 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/bff647b85d
21:29 dalek parrot: c027f67 | paultcochrane++ | config/gen/makefiles/root.in:
21:29 dalek parrot: Removing cover-generated html files in 'make cover-clean'
21:29 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/c027f677bf
21:29 dalek parrot: ce65db1 | paultcochrane++ | config/gen/makefiles/root.in:
21:29 dalek parrot: Added frontend/pbc_disassemble to list of coverage directories
21:29 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/ce65db1701
21:29 dalek parrot: 54c8b86 | dukeleto++ | config/gen/makefiles/root.in:
21:29 dalek parrot: Merge pull request #949 from paultcochrane/ptc/cover_fixups
21:29 dalek parrot:
21:29 dalek parrot: Clean up better after 'make cover'
21:29 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/54c8b86788
21:29 dalek parrot: 09c8e2f | paultcochrane++ | .gitignore:
21:29 dalek parrot: Moved vim-relevant lines to its own section in main .gitignore
21:29 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/09c8e2f7de
21:29 dalek parrot: 59d249f | paultcochrane++ | .gitignore:
21:29 dalek parrot: Ignoring vim backup (~) files
21:29 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/59d249f4a6
21:29 dalek parrot: aa80534 | paultcochrane++ | .gitignore:
21:29 dalek parrot: Ignoring gcov and gcov2perl automatically generated files
21:29 dalek parrot:
21:29 dalek parrot: These files turn up when one runs 'make cover' and don't need to be in the
21:29 dalek parrot: output from 'git status'
21:29 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/aa805348e0
21:29 dalek parrot: 28c4c0c | paultcochrane++ | .gitignore:
21:29 dalek parrot: Ignoring html files generated by 'cover' in 'make cover'
21:29 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/28c4c0c9e0
21:29 dalek parrot: b685611 | dukeleto++ | .gitignore:
21:29 dalek parrot: Merge pull request #948 from paultcochrane/ptc/gitignore_extras
21:29 dalek parrot:
21:29 dalek parrot: Ignore more automatically generated files in .gitignore
21:29 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/b6856115e7
21:40 travis-ci joined #parrot
21:40 travis-ci [travis-ci] parrot/parrot#829 (master - 6a7f23f : Jonathan "Duke" Leto): The build was broken.
21:40 travis-ci [travis-ci] Change view : https://github.com/parrot/parrot/c​ompare/bcc8fac77694...6a7f23f4b2f5
21:40 travis-ci [travis-ci] Build details : http://travis-ci.org/parrot/parrot/builds/5765828
21:40 travis-ci left #parrot
21:42 kid51 joined #parrot
21:53 kid51 Successful build on Darwin/PPC: http://smolder.parrot.org/app/​projects/report_details/39328
21:53 kid51 commit 829fa8f119e3ccf3506a3f5d1af07e9d7164b48a
21:54 travis-ci joined #parrot
21:54 travis-ci [travis-ci] parrot/parrot#830 (master - 54c8b86 : Jonathan "Duke" Leto): The build was broken.
21:54 travis-ci [travis-ci] Change view : https://github.com/parrot/parrot/c​ompare/6a7f23f4b2f5...54c8b867886d
21:54 travis-ci [travis-ci] Build details : http://travis-ci.org/parrot/parrot/builds/5765836
21:54 travis-ci left #parrot
21:57 dalek parrot: ddb7b3f | jkeenan++ | MANIFEST (2 files):
21:57 dalek parrot: Update MANIFEST.
21:57 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/ddb7b3f01c
21:57 ptc doh!  I forgot to add the new files to the MANIFEST....  sorry!
22:02 travis-ci joined #parrot
22:02 travis-ci [travis-ci] parrot/parrot#831 (master - b685611 : Jonathan "Duke" Leto): The build was broken.
22:02 travis-ci [travis-ci] Change view : https://github.com/parrot/parrot/c​ompare/54c8b867886d...b6856115e78f
22:02 travis-ci [travis-ci] Build details : http://travis-ci.org/parrot/parrot/builds/5765851
22:02 travis-ci left #parrot
22:10 dalek parrot: 35d28ae | jkeenan++ | t/steps/init/hints/darwin-01.t:
22:10 dalek parrot: Update test of error message to reflect new output under verbose => 1.
22:10 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/35d28ae1b4
22:12 kid51 We're okay now.
22:12 kid51 I just got a PASS on 'make fulltest'
22:12 kid51 It may take Travis a few cycles to catch up.
22:12 travis-ci joined #parrot
22:12 travis-ci [travis-ci] parrot/parrot#832 (master - ddb7b3f : jkeenan): The build was fixed.
22:12 travis-ci [travis-ci] Change view : https://github.com/parrot/parrot/c​ompare/b6856115e78f...ddb7b3f01c2b
22:12 travis-ci [travis-ci] Build details : http://travis-ci.org/parrot/parrot/builds/5766312
22:12 travis-ci left #parrot
22:22 travis-ci joined #parrot
22:22 travis-ci [travis-ci] parrot/parrot#833 (master - 35d28ae : James E Keenan): The build was fixed.
22:22 travis-ci [travis-ci] Change view : https://github.com/parrot/parrot/c​ompare/ddb7b3f01c2b...35d28ae1b45a
22:22 travis-ci [travis-ci] Build details : http://travis-ci.org/parrot/parrot/builds/5766528
22:22 travis-ci left #parrot
23:01 ptc goodnight *
23:01 ptc afk

| Channels | #parrot index | Today | | Search | Google Search | Plain-Text | summary

Parrot | source cross referenced