Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #parrot, 2013-05-28

Parrot | source cross referenced

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All times shown according to UTC.

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07:50 dalek nqp: c557c27 | moritz++ | Configure.pl:
07:50 dalek nqp: be smarter about guessing Darwin architecture
07:50 dalek nqp:
07:50 dalek nqp: Closes #100
07:50 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/c557c27945
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12:55 * Coke wonders if that will fix some nagging os x test failures coke has had.
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13:12 dalek nqp: 2a557de | (Pawel Murias)++ | docs/serialization_format.markdown:
13:12 dalek nqp: Document invocation spec in the serialization format description.
13:12 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/2a557de008
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15:56 Coke anyone here able to review some GC code?
15:57 Coke https://github.com/perl6/nqp/blob/maste​r/src/vm/parrot/pmc/sixmodelobject.pmc is showing up in some persistant rakudo failures when running on parrot. (specifically in destroy, but it could be an initial setup issue)
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17:38 Util Coke: I can echo your request in the #ps meeting in 2 hours, or you could mention it yourself if you attend.
17:38 Util In either case, could you provide a summary of steps to reproduce the problem?
17:38 Util Also, (unrelated) are your "nagging os x test failures" documented anywhere that you could point me to?
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18:06 Coke it was in response to nqp, errors are on rakudo on nqp on parrot, not parrot itself
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19:04 isBEKaml Hey guys, was there a parrot release this month? I don't see that on parrot.org.
19:21 Util isBEKaml: There was a release, and I got the word out on parrot-dev, but not parrot.org. Will fix today.
19:21 Util ftp://ftp.parrot.org/pub/pa​rrot/releases/devel/5.4.0/
19:24 isBEKaml Util: okay, great.
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19:34 Util #ps time
19:50 * sorear wonders how pmurias' gsoc thing is related to PaFo
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19:57 masak sorear: that has already been answered somewhere.
19:59 sorear that's very helpful
20:05 Util sorear: Two answers; one from me, and one from pmurias.
20:05 Util From me (starts at 20:20; bookmark taking me directly to the line):
20:05 Util http://irclog.perlgeek.de/​perl6/2013-05-01#i_7008132
20:05 Util From pmurias, via an addendum to his proposal, in response to that very question:
20:05 Util The main benefit to the Parrot Virtual Machine is that a JavaScript backend for QAST makes it a much more attractive target for compiler writers (they would be able to target JavaScript, JVM and Parrot with little extra effort over targeting Parrot and JVM).
20:05 Util As QAST is abstract enough to support Perl 5 and Perl 6 it should be able to support many other dynamic languages with minor extensions (Perl 6 is in a way a superset of dynamic languages).
20:05 Util The convenience of using Perl 6 grammars for parsing and being able to target multiple backends at once using QAST, might encourage compiler writers to (indirectly) target Parrot even though they don't have a strong belief in the Parrot VM vision.
20:05 Util Additionally having the languages target a form abstracted from the minor details of the different VM should free Parrot make the necessary changes it will need to evolve.
20:05 Util END_QUOTE
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20:55 elisa hi parrots
20:55 crocket Is parrot suitable for such languages as haskell, standard ML, and scala?
20:56 masak crocket: how do you mean?
20:56 crocket Can people make a compiler that compiles scala to parrot bytecode easily?
20:57 masak I see no theoretical limitation. Scala is probably at about the same level of difficulty as Perl 6, which has an implementation on Parrot.
21:03 crocket masak, Some people argue that standard ML is not implementable on JVM.
21:03 crocket Do you think they are correct?
21:03 crocket a functor-free subset of standard ML was implemented on JVM a long time ago, but it wasn't a complete subset.
21:04 masak crocket: I'm afraid I don't know enough about standard ML to give a good answer.
21:05 crocket masak, Can people make a parrot bytecode compiler for any language available?
21:05 masak crocket: but claims of non-implementability tend to be based on a lack of imagination -- or maybe they're really claims of "cannot be efficiently implemented".
21:05 crocket without sacrificing their functionalities.
21:06 masak crocket: yes, the idea is to target almost any language. that said, Parrot is especially targeted towards dynamic languages.
21:06 crocket masak, What about static languages?
21:07 masak I don't think it's impossible -- it's just that Parrot wasn't built primarily for them.
21:07 masak the way I see it, it's easier to build a static-language compiler for a dynamic VM than the other way around.
21:08 darbelo A static language would probably need to bypass or otherwise avoid the parts of parry that aim to support dynamic languages.
21:09 crocket parry
21:09 crocket This is not encourating.
21:09 crocket encouraging.
21:09 crocket What VMs are more versatile?
21:11 darbelo Alternatively, you could just ignore the extra features and not think about how it would be more efficient if the dynamic stuff wasn't there in the way :)
21:13 crocket JVM nowadays support dynamic langauges, too.
21:14 crocket Has parrot gained enough momentum to make an ecosystem?
21:14 crocket Or does it already have an ecosystem?
21:15 darbelo How large does something need to be to get called an ecosystem?
21:15 masak Parrot used to have more active High-Level Languages than it does today.
21:16 darbelo The biggest language using parrot is Rakudo Perl 6.
21:16 masak I struggle to think of others.
21:16 crocket Rakudo Perl 6?
21:16 masak crocket: http://rakudo.org/
21:17 crocket darbelo, enough ecosystme for commercial web applications.
21:17 masak or maybe better http://rakudo.org/about/
21:18 masak to the extent that there are web applications out there running Parrot, they are running Rakudo.
21:18 crocket perl??!
21:19 crocket Can parrot run all existing perl programs?
21:19 masak note that `perl` refers to the Perl 5 implementation, while `Rakudo Perl 6` refers to a Perl 6 implementation.
21:19 masak sounds like a difference in major versions only, but it's more like a difference between two languages.
21:20 masak `perl` doesn't run on Parrot. it's more it's own little VM.
21:20 masak its*
21:21 darbelo Think of the python 2/3 split, but bigger.
21:21 darbelo Much bigger.
21:22 crocket masak, You know what I mean.
21:22 crocket masak, I don't know perl well enough.
21:22 masak crocket: *I* know what *you* mean. I'm pointing out to you that there's a difference. you seemed not to be aware of it. :)
21:22 crocket masak, Can parrot run all existing perl6 programs?
21:23 masak crocket: if you meant Perl 5, then the answer is "no". Parrot cannot run all existing Perl programs.
21:23 masak crocket: if you meant Perl 6, then the answer is "mmmnnn". Rakudo Perl 6 is still chasing the spec. it can do a lot, but not everything.
21:23 masak on the other hand *all* current Perl 6 implementations are chasing the spec.
21:23 darbelo I'm tempted to say "Only to the extent that perl6 can run all existing perl6 programs."
21:24 masak that's why we haven't seen a "final, for realz, totally ready for production ultimate release of Perl 6" yet, I guess.
21:26 crocket It seems rakudo is the biggest perl6 implementation.
21:27 masak Niecza isn't half-bad either. see http://perl6.org/compilers/features
21:30 crocket It seems that perl6 is targeting parrot mainly.
21:31 darbelo Parrot started out as the "VM for the next perl"
21:31 darbelo A long time ago.
21:33 darbelo Also, Rakudo is growing multi-vm support nowadays.
21:33 darbelo I think it's on its way to bootstrapping on the JVM.
21:33 masak aye.
21:34 darbelo Or maybe it's there already, haven't checked in a while.
21:36 masak nqp is bootstrapped already. Rakudo parses the core setting and can print "Hello World".
21:57 crocket nqp?
21:58 darbelo "Not Quite Perl"
21:59 darbelo It's a subset of perl used to implement perl.
22:00 darbelo An older version of that is part of the parrot toolkit.
22:03 darbelo See the bit about "PCT Overview" in http://docs.parrot.org/parrot/devel/html/d​ocs/book/pct/ch03_compiler_tools.pod.html
22:03 darbelo For an idea of what it's used for.
22:06 dalek rakudo/nom: be60ebe | dagurval++ | src/core/IO.pm:
22:06 dalek rakudo/nom: fix order of directory/volume used in dir()
22:06 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/be60ebe6aa
22:06 dalek rakudo/nom: 2f8ebe1 | (Brent Laabs)++ | t/spectest.data:
22:06 dalek rakudo/nom: add S02-names/bare-sigil.t to spectest
22:06 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/2f8ebe1d08
22:06 dalek rakudo/nom: a418e53 | dagurval++ | src/core/Temporal.pm:
22:06 dalek rakudo/nom: Fail on default constructor
22:06 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/a418e53cd4
22:06 dalek rakudo/nom: 2788f30 | dagurval++ | src/core/Temporal.pm:
22:06 dalek rakudo/nom: empty constructor in DateTime class, not Date...
22:06 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/2788f307d2
22:06 dalek rakudo/nom: f2cce1c | dagurval++ | src/core/Temporal.pm:
22:06 dalek rakudo/nom: Added gist to DateTime
22:06 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/f2cce1cdc6
22:06 dalek rakudo/nom: ee38e16 | labster++ | src/core/Temporal.pm:
22:06 dalek rakudo/nom: Merge branch 'nom' of github.com:dagurval/rakudo into nom
22:07 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/ee38e16951
22:07 dalek rakudo/nom: 571ae98 | (Brent Laabs)++ | src/core/IO/Spec/ (3 files):
22:07 dalek rakudo/nom: try to fix $*TMPDIR/zavolaj on feather
22:07 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/571ae98063
22:07 dalek rakudo/nom: 8677d32 | labster++ | / (12 files):
22:07 dalek rakudo/nom: Merge branch 'nom' of github.com:labster/rakudo into nom
22:07 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/8677d328d6
22:07 dalek rakudo/nom: 118018c | labster++ | / (2 files):
22:07 dalek rakudo/nom: Merge branch 'nom' of github.com:rakudo/rakudo into nom
22:07 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/118018c598
22:07 dalek rakudo/nom: 8a08591 | labster++ | src/core/IO.pm:
22:07 dalek rakudo/nom: Add IO::Handle meth: gist, perl, path (now returns IO::Path), IO (a no-op)
22:07 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/8a08591ec7
22:07 darbelo Also: From the README of the 'new' NQP Rakudo uses:
22:07 darbelo NQP is the successor implementation of "nqp-rx" [2]. Unlike nqp-rx, which aimed to have almost no runtime component whatsoever, this new version of NQP accepts that a minimal Perl 6 object metamodel, multidispatcher, and regular expression engine are needed on top of the underlying virtual machine
22:08 darbelo nqp-rx would be the one that ships with parrot.
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