Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #parrotsketch, 2008-08-05

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
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18:02 Infinoid *lurk*
18:05 pmichaud I will probably miss #ps today.  My report is
18:05 pmichaud * Cleaned up Str.substr in rakudo.
18:05 pmichaud * Updated some tests
18:05 pmichaud * Rakudo is passing 2103 tests as of this morning
18:06 pmichaud EOR
18:08 pmichaud * Also fixed atan2
18:08 pmichaud real_EOR
18:09 pmichaud question/comment for today: Tene has submitted a patch for resumable exceptions -- Rakudo could really use this capability soon for lazy list operations (i.e., given/take).  Any tuits that could be aimed at resumable exceptions would be ery helpful.
18:09 pmichaud *very
18:09 pmichaud Tene++
18:09 pmichaud I'm still officially on vacation until Friday.  Should have hacking time on the plane(s) though, if I'm not too tired
18:10 pmichaud okay, gone for now.
18:12 jhorwitz joined #parrotsketch
18:19 kj joined #parrotsketch
18:19 kj early report (will go afk):
18:20 kj * some clean-ups for pirc/new
18:20 kj * updated DEPRECATED.pod after revision of pdd19
18:22 kj .eor
18:29 chromatic joined #parrotsketch
18:30 * tewk has short status today.
18:30 * cotto_work has no status today.
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18:32 jonathan joined #parrotsketch
18:33 chromatic Hello, all.
18:33 NotFound Hello
18:33 jonathan ahoj
18:34 rgrjr hola.
18:34 chromatic Let's go in alphabetical order.
18:34 chromatic I helped Allison fix bugs and merge back the concurrency branch.
18:35 chromatic I have some segfaults to look at and will spend some time cleaning up PMCs.
18:35 chromatic next?
18:35 * jhorwitz is late, but here
18:35 chromatic cotto_work?
18:35 jhorwitz i guess i'm next in alpha order...
18:35 NotFound j < n ;)
18:36 cotto_work nothing to report, just closing whichever bugs I can wrap my head around
18:36 * Whiteknight is here too
18:36 chromatic japhb?
18:36 japhb chromatic: yes?
18:37 * japhb looks at channel name ...
18:37 japhb Oh, I see.  Nothing to report here.
18:37 chromatic jhorwitz?
18:37 jhorwitz fixed some threading issues and tested mod_parrot with Apache's threaded worker MPM.  it works.  this week will add some thread-specific apache directives.
18:37 jhorwitz got jonathan up and running with mod_parrot and mod_perl6.
18:38 jhorwitz cleaned up some documentation, thinking about writing an HLL layer developer's guide, which would be useful for mod_perl6 hackers.
18:38 jhorwitz EOR
18:38 chromatic jonathan?
18:38 jonathan * Had Rakudo day last week. Mostly did various fixes, spent time reading the spec/STD.pm and getting my head straight on various things. Had some good discussion with pmichaud later on in the eveing.
18:39 jonathan * Didn't get my report written... :-( Will do that soon.
18:39 jonathan * Started doing some work on my MMD grant today - post on use.perl.org about that, will cross-post to Rakudo.org
18:39 jonathan * With lots of help from jhorwitz++, managed to get mod_parrot and mod_perl6 to run on my Linux box.
18:39 jonathan * Got one of my YAPC::EU talks written, almost. Kinda happy with it. Barely started the other one...want to finish it this week before I travel.
18:39 jonathan * Not sure which day to do Rakudo day this week...will certainly do more on the MMD grant, though.
18:39 jonathan .end
18:39 jonathan (OH, and hackathon-ing day before and day after YAPC::EU)
18:40 chromatic NotFound?
18:40 NotFound Working on parrot_debugger, adapting to last merge.
18:41 NotFound I have a question about that,
18:41 NotFound Eor
18:41 chromatic particle?
18:41 particle ~ working with osu osl on infrastructure setup of parrot.org
18:41 particle ~ taking over mentorship of auzon, since moritz is on vacation for two weeks
18:42 particle still fighting my dvd drive drivers
18:42 particle .end
18:42 cotto_work queue 1 question
18:42 particle pmichaud's report is in scrollback, as is kj's
18:42 chromatic rgrjr?
18:43 rgrjr Started work on a proposal for a language interop PDD.
18:43 rgrjr .end
18:43 chromatic tewk?
18:44 chromatic Whiteknight?
18:44 Whiteknight * More debugging work on GC
18:44 Whiteknight * Getting close, but no cigar yet.
18:44 Whiteknight * Some updates and clarifications to PDD09
18:44 Whiteknight EOR
18:44 chromatic NotFound, you had a question.
18:45 NotFound Main question: is fine to have a runloop specific for parrot_debugger? Secondary: someone is using parrot_debugger?
18:45 chromatic A specific runloop sounds reasonable.  I have never used the debugger.  Other opinions?
18:46 Whiteknight I like the idea. Adding a new runloop is cheap
18:46 * Tene is here now.
18:46 NotFound The reason is to know if I can work freely in trunk or must I open a branch,
18:46 particle i'd like a runloop that can be jumped into and out of at will
18:47 NotFound particle: that is the intention.
18:47 particle fab
18:47 rgrjr I've tried using parrot_debugger, but it's pretty minimal.  I'd rather see effort go into a PIR-level debugger.
18:47 * particle has two questions
18:47 particle (pir-level debugger)++
18:48 NotFound I agree, but first we need a way to run code under debuger control.
18:48 rgrjr NotFound:  Seems like these are orthogonal to me . . . but never mind.
18:49 NotFound pir-level looks to me just to know line numbers to step and to show.
18:50 Tene No allison today?
18:50 rgrjr I mean I want to be able *write* it in PIR.  If I can do that, I can write it in an HLL as well.
18:50 particle allison's travelling between cambridge and copenhagen today iirc
18:50 NotFound rgrjr: ah, sorry, I don't understood.
18:51 NotFound My idea is to have some basic debugger functions, and be able to use them both from built-in debugger or an external one.
18:52 rgrjr In particular, I'd rather not write it in C.
18:52 NotFound And work on a pluggable interface, maybe a pmc.
18:53 rgrjr My idea of a "built-in" debugger is one that autoloads its PBC files when needed.
18:53 rgrjr A PMC for contexts would probably be sufficient.
18:53 rgrjr But this may be a distraction . . .
18:54 Infinoid (queueing a possibly related question)
18:54 NotFound rgrjr: is resaonable, but I'm currently trying to make the internals work.
18:54 spinclad [ pmichaud in scrollback queued a question/comment ]
18:54 rgrjr Go for it; I *am* a distraction then.
18:55 chromatic Tene, would you like to go?
18:55 Tene My contribution for the week is http://rt.perl.org/rt3/Ticket/Display.html?id=57610
18:55 NotFound Actually it does not work, and I think the runloop is the way to make it work.
18:55 particle one of my questions is repeating pmichaud's question, related to tene's work
18:55 Tene That's all.
18:56 Tene Resumable exceptions patch.  It touches on some stuff that I don't understand fully, so could use some review.
18:56 particle rgrjr: do resumable exceptions benefit kea-cl?
18:57 particle (while we wait) they definitely are required for rakudo's gather/take
18:57 Tene The PDDs didn't help at all, as they contained vague and possibly contradictory information.
18:57 rgrjr particle:  No.  CL has a different concept called "proceeding".
18:57 Tene Which I should also fix.
18:58 particle tene: any pdd review on this topic is encouraged
18:59 Tene Also, the behavior might not be right.  It seems like the error handler is popped from the eh stack when it's executed.  When I throw two exceptions in a row, I need to push_eh again before the second one if I resume straight from the error handler.
18:59 Tene I don't know if it's supposed to work like that or not.
19:00 rgrjr Tene: My reading of S04 is that Parrot should stay in the error context until the handler decides to exit.
19:00 particle we may need a list of use cases to get the tests right
19:00 chromatic Agreed.
19:01 chromatic tewk, would you like to report now?
19:01 Tene My biggest question was if resumable exceptions were already implemented or not.  Allison told me that they would be in the pdd25cx merge, but I couldn't find anything that looked similar at all.
19:01 tewk * x86 jit of nci stubs is in nci_gsoc branch.
19:01 tewk * Working on x86_64 jit of nci stubs
19:01 tewk * Question what is the status of x86_64 jit, who was the last one to work on it?
19:02 tewk EOR
19:02 chromatic Probably Leo, but I'm sure it's been a while since anyone did anything other than "This may make it compile!" patching.
19:02 particle tewk: parrot fails to build for me in nci_gsoc branch with msvc atm
19:02 particle but let's take that bit to #parrot
19:03 chromatic cotto_work, you had a question too.
19:03 cotto_work background: I'm trying to get PHPArrays to play nice with Iterators.
19:03 cotto_work One of the features of PHPArrays is that they are ordered and have an internal pointer that refers to the current bucket during iterantion
19:03 cotto_work There are also next(), prev(), reset() and last() methods which move the internal pointer forward, backward, to first or last bucket, respectively.
19:04 cotto_work question: Are the Iterator and Key PMCs flexible enough to rely *only* on the internal pointer (or some other internal of the iterated PMC)?
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19:04 chromatic I think they all use vtable entries to iterate through the iterated PMC.
19:05 chromatic If they don't, it's a bug.
19:05 * DietCoke belatedly arrives.
19:06 chromatic DietCoke, do you have a report?
19:06 cotto_work Can you me a high-level idea of how it should work?
19:06 cotto_work question &
19:07 chromatic cotto_work, the Iterator should keep the current position in the iterable as a key (0, 1, 2 .. n) and use get_foo_keyed_integer or whatever to retrieve that item when iterated on.
19:07 chromatic Though I'm not sure if it pokes into the guts of hash-like PMCs directly.
19:08 chromatic Basically, try it and see what breaks, so we know what to fix.
19:08 cotto_work ok.  I'll see if that's enough to go from and report back later.
19:09 DietCoke Here's my report:
19:09 DietCoke no particular order.
19:09 DietCoke - continued working on partcl
19:09 DietCoke - started a flame^w discussion about branching on list. new svk sounds
19:09 DietCoke spiffy.
19:09 DietCoke - resolved a few old deprecated tickets.
19:09 DietCoke - Working to resolve removal of the old 'getclass' opcode. Feeback on the patch
19:09 DietCoke desired.
19:09 DietCoke .EOR
19:10 chromatic Did I miss any questions?  pmichaud's queued question?
19:10 cotto_work <pmichaud> question/comment for today: Tene has submitted a patch for resumable exceptions -- Rakudo could really use this capability soon for lazy list operations (i.e., given/take).  Any tuits that could be aimed at resumable exceptions would be ery helpful.
19:10 particle s/given/gather/
19:11 particle i have a question for rgrjr
19:11 particle rgrjr: care to share your hll interop proposal (wiki) or do you prefer to work in isolation at this point?
19:11 Infinoid chromatic: 1 queued question here
19:12 chromatic Infinoid, let's give rgrjr one more minute to respond, and then go ahead.
19:13 rgrjr particle:  I had hoped to post it by Sunday, but ran out of tuits.  Since there's no way I can cover it all in detail, I had wanted at least to point out what's missing.  But if you like, I can post what I have (tonight, probably).
19:14 particle no rush, but many hands light work etc
19:15 rgrjr Agreed.  But, in light of the list conversation, my proposal has a definite slant, so I wanted to make a serious attempt at covering all the bases, at least in outline.
19:17 particle ok then, i await your finished draft for review :)
19:17 rgrjr s/finished/barely started/  ;-}
19:17 chromatic Alright, Infinoid please go.
19:18 Infinoid ok.  is there anything blocked on having the ability to manipulate .pbc files from PIR (PDD13)?  I'm only spending a day or two per month on this project, so I'm wondering if I should be coordinating with anyone else, or just keep doing my own thing.
19:18 chromatic Replacing IMCC with pirc, potentially.
19:18 Infinoid (that said, I have a vacation coming up next week which should include some good PDD13 hacking time.)
19:18 particle Infinoid: we'd like to generate pbc directly from post
19:18 particle chromatic++
19:19 particle boat, beer, bytecode?
19:19 particle sounds like a good vacation
19:20 jonathan chromatic: PDD13 doesn't specify a great deal that will make generating the actual bytecode stream (in terms of the ops) a load easier.
19:20 jonathan For the overall packfiles, yes, for sure, but in terms of generating a sequence of opcodes etc less so.
19:20 chromatic It's progress though.
19:20 jonathan Oh, for sure.
19:20 Infinoid so, for that, you need some pmcs that will allow you to specify fields and add stuff, and stringify the whole lot?
19:21 chromatic PMCs or functions or something better than compilers/imcc/pbc.c
19:21 jonathan :-)
19:21 Infinoid great, thanks.
19:21 particle yes, we need to convert to/from pasm/pbc
19:21 particle string vs binary representation of bytecode
19:22 jonathan erm
19:22 Infinoid hmm... converting between pasm and pbc is pirc's job, right?
19:22 Infinoid I'm working on serialization/deserialization of the file format
19:23 jonathan Infinoid: Right. And the missing bit being discussed here is the data hold in one of the segments.
19:23 jonathan *held
19:23 Infinoid right
19:23 jonathan Or rather, code to generate it that isn't pbc.c
19:23 Infinoid if you can gimme an array of opcodes, I'll happily store them for you.
19:23 jonathan It's probably not crazily hard to do, but it's not especially easy either.
19:24 jonathan (I'd work on it, but my plate is a tad full right now...I just don't have extra tuits.)
19:25 Infinoid ok, thanks... end of question
19:27 chromatic Any other questions?
19:28 chromatic I think we're done then.
19:28 DietCoke One thing:
19:28 DietCoke Please go through the tickets that you have assigned to you in RT and see if any are waiting for you to review something.
19:29 DietCoke I noticed particle has at least one, perhaps there are some easy closers.
19:29 DietCoke .
19:29 chromatic Same time next week.  Thank you everyone.
19:29 particle ~~
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