Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #parrotsketch, 2008-11-04

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
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18:25 tewk_ get_global should go
18:26 tewk_ <@chromatic> ... except there's no get_hll_global PMC STR STR
18:26 cotto joined #parrotsketch
18:29 pmichaud (get_global) -- it's been long settled that find_global is deprecated and get_*_global remains.
18:30 chromatic We can't remove find_global until get_*_global does everything that find_global does, however.
18:30 jhorwitz joined #parrotsketch
18:30 * moritz detects that it's time[tm]
18:31 chromatic Hello, all.
18:31 barney hi
18:31 davidfetter OH HAI
18:31 masak y0
18:31 particle ZOMG
18:31 jhorwitz ~~
18:31 Wknight8111 hello
18:32 jonathan joined #parrotsketch
18:32 kj hi
18:32 chromatic Let's go in reverse order.  Everyone can be excited and confused.
18:32 chromatic Wknight8111?
18:32 Wknight8111 * A few small fixes here and there, nothing major
18:32 bacek joined #parrotsketch
18:32 Wknight8111 * Spent a week on vacation, so slowly getting caught up
18:32 Wknight8111 EOR
18:33 chromatic And congratulations in order for the WHY of vacation.
18:33 chromatic tewk_?
18:33 Wknight8111 thank you (I got hitched, for those who don't know what he's talking about)
18:34 chromatic pmichaud?
18:34 * jhorwitz saves a beer for Wknight8111
18:34 pmichaud == Parrot stuff
18:34 pmichaud : continued working on lexicals implementation
18:34 pmichaud : wrote a long message to the mailing list describing push_eh/pop_eh usage
18:34 pmichaud : updated many parts of trunk to be consistent with correct push_eh/pop_eh
18:34 pmichaud : still some blockers in exception handling (see mailing list for description)
18:34 pmichaud == Rakudo stuff
18:34 pmichaud : provided pointers and suggestions to others applying patches
18:34 pmichaud EOR
18:35 chromatic particle?
18:35 particle ~ refactoring rakudo, added an 'isa' method to PCT::Node and converted rakudo to use it instead of the incorrect .WHAT or (more correct) .HOW.isa calls
18:35 particle ~ preparing for pds2008. need to get some info, (e.g. hotel details) announced
18:35 particle ~ i think jonathan++ may have unblocked my import patch for rakudo, will know more shortly
18:35 particle .end
18:35 chromatic moritz?
18:36 moritz * fixed a few issues with evalbots
18:36 moritz * thinking about setting up a svn mirror that the IRC bots can poll as often as they want, without upsetting the svn.perl.org admins
18:36 moritz .end
18:36 chromatic masak?
18:36 masak * Implemented one small Rakudo reature (.end)
18:36 masak * Fixed one small Rakudo bug (inf. loop in Object.list)
18:36 masak * Caused one small debate on #perl6 (due to faulty commits, tests and
18:36 masak behaviour in connection with junctions. still partly ongoing)
18:36 masak * Still looking into why r32189 breaks my Parrot.
18:36 masak EOR
18:36 chromatic kj?
18:36 kj == work on PIRC
18:36 kj * added PASM parsing capability, which was quite easy
18:36 kj * PIRC now can parse PIR into PASM, and sugar PASM into PIR (except for all the fancy stuff).
18:36 kj * implemented a register allocation optimizer, which was quite easy too :-)
18:36 kj * refactored some datastructures; not so easy.
18:36 kj eor
18:37 chromatic jonathan?
18:37 jonathan * Back from vacation, starting to dig in again
18:37 jonathan * Managed to give Coke++ a useful hint that led to a bug fix
18:37 jonathan * Today been spending some time on the Rakudo RT queue, have fixed various things and we're passing more spectests now too (by adding/unfudging as well as writing some new). Nothing in particular to speak of, mostly minor but useful fixes.
18:37 jonathan * Got flights booked for attending Parrot Developer Summit.
18:37 jonathan EOR
18:37 chromatic jhorwitz?
18:37 jhorwitz a week of debugging mod_perl6 issues proved fruitful.  finally have a working implementation of Perl6Module so we can preload handlers, which speeds things up nicely.
18:37 jhorwitz did a bit of hacking with Tene while he was in town.  mod_cardinal was born, though just a proof-of-concept.
18:38 jhorwitz EOR
18:38 chromatic cotto?
18:38 cotto eor
18:39 chromatic I fixed some bugs.
18:39 chromatic I also want to remove deprecated opcodes, but we need to add variants to get_*_global to do so.  I have a question about that.
18:40 chromatic I also added temporary_pmc_new/temporary_pmc_free, with big hairy scary warnings on them.  If you want to know when to use them, ask me.  They do relieve some GC pressure in a few cases, but they have other drawbacks, like stack-allocated variables in C.
18:40 chromatic barney
18:40 chromatic ?
18:40 barney Started with Pipp tests written in PHP.
18:40 barney Added a 'make smolder_test' target to the Pipp Makefile.
18:40 barney .eor
18:40 chromatic bacek?
18:41 bacek chromatic: I'm not commiter. Just rumbling around :)
18:41 chromatic I'm an includer, not a divider.
18:41 chromatic It's question time.
18:41 particle please let's officially drop gcc 2.* support, if it's not already explicit in our docs
18:41 chromatic That's not a question, but I support it.  Any opposition?
18:42 pmichaud +1
18:42 Wknight8111 +1
18:42 chromatic Alright.
18:42 jhorwitz +1
18:43 chromatic Next question: any objection if I add the apparently missing get_hll_global PMC STR STR opcode?
18:43 pmichaud do we need it?
18:43 chromatic We have find_global P S S, but it's deprecated.
18:43 particle +1
18:43 pmichaud the only variant needed would be get_hll_global_p_s_s/sc
18:43 Wknight8111 +1
18:43 pmichaud currently one can do the same with a single-element array
18:43 chromatic I could add yet another rewrite in IMCC to the supported version.
18:44 chromatic ...
18:44 chromatic How do the Manga say this?  ^_^'
18:44 pmichaud would we also get  get_global_p_s_s  and get_root_global_p_s_s  ?
18:44 chromatic I expect so.
18:44 pmichaud is it common enough to deserve its own opcode?
18:45 chromatic find_global P S S exists.
18:45 pmichaud sure, but that doesn't mean it's used frequently, or that it should exist.
18:46 pmichaud also, find_global_p_s_s was created long before we had hll namespaces
18:46 pmichaud I'm simply thinking there aren't many instances of   $P0 = find_global $S1, $S2
18:46 chromatic I'm comfortable removing it if there's consensus.  I just wanted to bring up the fact that it's a syntax change for PIR/PASM.
18:47 pmichaud it's currently built into imcc directly?
18:47 chromatic Not IMCC; just an op.
18:47 chromatic src/ops/var.ops:430
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18:49 pmichaud I prefer to drop it altogether, and see what breaks.  But a quick check of "ack find_global" doesn't show any find_global_p_s_s variants yet
18:49 kj isn't the first _s the namespace?
18:49 kj find_global_p_>s<_s
18:49 chromatic Yes.
18:49 pmichaud Yes.
18:49 kj so, namespaces are represented as keys, no?
18:49 pmichaud that's one way, yes.
18:50 chromatic You'd have to ack PIR/PASM to see if anything uses it.
18:50 kj so instead of the _s version, a version with a key would be better than just a single string I think
18:51 pmichaud we already have the keyed variants of get_*_global
18:51 kj so then if we have the keyed version, we don't need the _s version right ? :-)
18:51 kj if we just put in the single string into [ and ]
18:51 pmichaud there's a difference between _s and _sc
18:52 kj ah yes, you're right in that
18:52 pmichaud it's easy to convert   find_global_p_sc_s  to its equivalent get_hll_global form.
18:52 chromatic Yes, find_global_p_s_s is harder.
18:52 pmichaud get_hll_global doesn't have an equivalent of find_global_p_s_s.  However, I can't find any places where find_global_p_s_s is actually used.
18:52 jhorwitz i did this for mod_parrot with some fun regexes
18:53 pmichaud so, rather than add a new opcode (with six variants), I'd rather just eliminate find_global_p_s_s altogether until we can prove that we need it.
18:53 pmichaud and since there's a relatively easy workaround for find_global_p_s_s, we should use that if we do find only one or two instances.
18:54 kj well, if it's not used (at all?) currently, then using a few ops, 2 or 3 to get the same effect would be fine I guess
18:54 chromatic I'll convert the easy ops and remove the deprecated ones, then report on how the changes look for the hard one.
18:54 pmichaud I really think find_global_p_s_s is extremely rare.  I'm willing to be proven wrong, though.
18:55 kj chromatic++ # sounds like a good plan to me.
18:55 pmichaud yes, converting the existing usages of find_global is a necessary first step at any rate.
18:55 chromatic allison?
18:56 allison - Nearly finished with the core implementation of the new I/O.
18:56 allison - Since the old and new peacefully co-exist, I'll merge in the branch as soon as that's done, before I start converting old code to use the new system.
18:56 allison - Worked on MMD tickets.
18:56 allison - Announced BBC joining Parrot's advisory board today.
18:56 allison EOR
18:56 kj BBC?
18:56 kj ah no bot
18:57 allison kj: British Broadcasting Corporation
18:57 Wknight8111 where was that announcement?
18:57 allison http://www.parrot.org/news/bbc-joins-parrot-foundation-advisory-board
18:57 kj allison: yeah that's how I know it; I just wondered what broadcasting has to do with virtual machines...
18:57 pmichaud also on front page of www.parrot.org
18:57 pmichaud kj:  think media retargeting :-)
18:58 chromatic Other questions?
18:58 allison kj: they're huge users of open source programming languages
18:58 kj ah I see
18:58 particle read the press release, it should make sense then
19:02 chromatic If there's nothing else, let's adjourn until next week.
19:02 chromatic CLOSE THOSE TICKETS
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19:42 Coke belated report: fixed "./parrot -t4" this week, in an attempt to help figure out where partcl is spending its time.
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