Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #parrotsketch, 2008-11-11

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
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17:31 Coke I guess it's time. =-)
17:31 Coke it's a US holiday today, and some folks still haven't recovered from the US DST switch.
17:32 Coke How's it going?
17:32 pmichaud parrotsketch in 60
17:32 Coke aha! so it is. I've -over- adjusted. Also, I blame japhb!
17:32 Coke (ah. that's my paris clock, not my utc clock.)
17:42 japhb Coke: yep, all my fault.   :-)
17:42 japhb Is the OpenGL examples conversion from PIR to Perl 6 interesting here?
17:46 PerlJam japhb: probably only in as much as it related to changing parrot in some way.
17:47 japhb PerlJam: that's what I thought.  Then I will probably trigger some reports another day, when the various problems I plan to report get fixed.  ;-)
17:47 japhb nr as usual then.
17:51 PerlJam you had no problems with NCI?
17:52 japhb PerlJam: oh, several
17:52 japhb I just haven't had time to put in bugs for them
17:52 japhb And I also found interesting ways to crash and segfault, too.
17:52 PerlJam you could still report those problems in a general sense and see if someone has the inclination to look into it.
17:54 japhb Hmmm, not a bad thought.  Probably worth collecting my thoughts, then.
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18:31 masak sal'
18:31 chromatic morning
18:32 allison yo
18:32 barney howdy
18:32 jonathan ahoj
18:32 japhb morning
18:32 particle !
18:33 chromatic Shall we begin?  allison?
18:33 allison - Spent the week on I/O work.
18:33 allison - Reading from files is working fine, but printing wasn't working without buffering, so I'm adding that.
18:34 allison - More MMD debugging.
18:34 allison - Looking forward to the dev summit this weekend.
18:34 allison EOR
18:34 chromatic barney?
18:34 barney Applied some patches.
18:34 barney Got stuck with disappearing 'our' vars in NQP actions. Trying to provide a test case.
18:34 barney .eor
18:34 chromatic I fixed some bugs.
18:34 chromatic I'm trying to remove as much global state as possible from IMCC, in the hopes that that'll magically solve the re-entrant compile for :immediate subs problem.
18:34 chromatic So far it hasn't.
18:35 chromatic I'm happy to look at any other blockers, as always.
18:35 chromatic Also I helped Coke remove type IDs from PIR.
18:35 chromatic Coke?
18:35 Coke typeids are gone from pir in trunk ...
18:35 Coke converted a lot of .return -> .tailcall ; (nearly done)
18:36 Coke trying to cleanup as much DEPRECATED as possible.
18:36 Coke .end
18:36 chromatic japhb?
18:36 japhb yep,
18:36 japhb While converting the OpenGL PIR examples to P6, came across some bugs
18:37 * jhorwitz arrives late
18:37 japhb Several are Rarkudo, but others are (or appear to be) Parrot
18:37 japhb There's still the known problem with i386 NCI JIT that Tewk is working on, he appears to be making slow progress there.
18:37 japhb Also, if you exit() from a callback, it's a crasher.
18:38 japhb In my MAIN() routine, if I don't put a 'return;' after 'glutMainLoop()', it crashes instantly, even though glutMainLoop() never returns.
18:38 japhb I report that here, because it's not clear if it's a Rakudo bug, or a Parrot calling conventions problem,
18:39 pmichaud (report it as a rakudobug for now, since that's where it manifests)
18:39 japhb because the crash error is that there was 1 arg expected, but 0 sent.  Which sounds like a problem with an expected return value from the main program.
18:40 pmichaud could be a lexicals/outer issue
18:40 japhb I also had a segfault (no backtrace), but I have not been able to recreate that this morning (I forgot the sequence) ... still working to recreate that.
18:40 japhb EOR for Parrot -- the Rakudo boys get more later.
18:40 chromatic jhorwitz?
18:40 jhorwitz using november as a real-world test case for ModPerl6::Registry.  finding lots of missing pieces needed for CGI compatibility and implementing them.  november needs to be tweaked slightly for mod_perl compatibility, but it all works surprisingly well.
18:41 jhorwitz it's becoming harder to port mod_perl6's implementation of interpolated namespaces to HEAD.  deprecated the patch and added a fudged 'call_sub_with_namespace' sub in PIR to mod_perl6.  this should tide me over til interpolated namespaces are implemented in rakudo.
18:41 jhorwitz posted suggestions for PDS agenda items on the wiki.  please have a look, add more.
18:41 jhorwitz EOR
18:41 chromatic masak?
18:41 masak * Been reporting bugs, applying patches and generally enjoying myself.
18:41 masak * Learned a bit more PIR, implemented Perl 6's .fmt in Rakudo.
18:41 masak EOR
18:41 chromatic particle?
18:41 jonathan J! J! It comes before M!
18:41 particle ~ reviewed container branch pre-merge, fixed bugs and added docs there
18:41 particle ~ unfudged a number of spectests that passed after the merge
18:41 particle ~ created the %*VM var, and exposed parrot's config in %*VM<config>
18:41 particle ~ pds2008 planning continues, just a few final details before it starts
18:41 particle .end
18:42 chromatic pmichaud?
18:42 pmichaud (jonathan:  I think we're going in order of increasing importance... how's that?  ;-)
18:42 pmichaud ** Rakudo spectests (r32548):  216 files, 4478 passing, 68 failing
18:42 pmichaud == Parrot stuff
18:42 pmichaud : worked on lexical autoclose semantics
18:42 pmichaud == Rakudo stuff
18:42 pmichaud : added .Str and get_string semantics (#60350)
18:42 pmichaud : container/value semantics (with help from jonathan++, particle++, others)
18:43 pmichaud : fixed bug in double-quoted strings returning non-Str
18:43 pmichaud : closing brace in regex/token (#57874)
18:43 pmichaud : allow pointy blocks for if/unless/while/until
18:43 pmichaud : refactor constructs to use <xblock>
18:43 pmichaud : refactor and correct Junction semantics (#60168)
18:43 pmichaud : corrected assignment operators (e.g., += ) for protoobjects (#60452)
18:43 pmichaud EOR
18:43 chromatic jonathan?
18:43 jonathan * Spent Thursday and today hacking on Rakudo
18:43 jonathan * Thursday was mostly taken up doing a big refactor of container stuff with pmichaud - went smoothly and seems quite an improvement
18:43 jonathan * Found and fixed a key bug in candidate sorting for the Perl 6 MMD algorithm - should be a big improvement
18:43 jonathan * Got the is also trait working for adding methods, which should be the last blocker to pre-compiled PIR modules
18:43 jonathan * Need to have a re-think of how we're doing the traits stuff, after discussion with TimToady yesterday...
18:43 jonathan * Got it so that Num type now accpets Int too
18:43 jonathan * Been fixing various other bits, applying the odd patch...been happy to apply some of late from (Chris Dolan)++
18:43 jonathan * Seems I've got a first cut of the MAIN sub working - the rest is for particle to worry about...about to ci that ;-)
18:43 jonathan * Spoke on Perl 6 at Twin City Perl Workshop at weekend - and with that, my speaking for the year is over
18:43 jonathan * Looking forward to being at Parrot Developer Summit at the weekend and seeing/hacking folks
18:43 jonathan EOR
18:43 chromatic tewk?
18:44 japhb pmichaud: when did you work on the += stuff?  += and ||= were broken for me yesterday.
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18:46 chromatic Looks like no tewk; let's go to question time, which I see japhb has already started.
18:46 japhb Sorry.
18:47 chromatic Just for that, you have to wake pmichaud up.  I suggest an airhorn.
18:47 chromatic Very Texas.
18:47 japhb chromatic: pinged him in #parrot
18:47 pmichaud sorry, was busy looking up the answer.
18:48 japhb ah
18:48 pmichaud r32496
18:48 pmichaud yesterday (about 25 hours ago)
18:48 pmichaud I suspect ||= isn't implemented.
18:48 pmichaud at least, I didn't see it.
18:49 japhb hmmm, += should have been there by the time I was working on it, then.
18:49 japhb Fair enough re: ||=
18:50 chromatic Other questions?
18:50 Coke I have one for allison.
18:51 allison ok
18:51 japhb pmichaud: When I try += in Rakudo, I get a crash with the error: Multiple Dispatch: No suitable candidate found for 'i_add', with signature 'PP'
18:51 japhb current instr.: 'infix:+=' pc 10987 (src/gen_builtins.pir:6919)
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18:52 pmichaud japhb: let's look at this in #parrot
18:52 japhb pmichaud: will do
18:52 chromatic Coke, go ahead.
18:52 Coke integer type ids: the ticket was basically to remove the user-visible bits (but didn't say so explicitly). Is the plan to also remove all the C-level appearances? only remove them from things that are in PARROT_API ?
18:53 allison for now (and I mean until parrot 3.0 or 4.0) we keep them in C
18:54 allison PARROT_API isn't a reliable boundary, because many things are flagged as PARROT_API that shouldn't be
18:54 Coke no, but it -should- be reliable. =-)
18:54 allison yes, that's one of our "path to 1.0" items
18:54 Coke ok. so, in that case, the current version of 'remove integer type ids' is closable.
18:54 allison cleaning up what is and isn't marked as part of the API
18:55 chromatic The question is, should someone embedding Parrot be able to say PMC *my_pmc = pmc_new(interp, enum_class_LOOK_A_TYPE_ID); ?
18:55 Coke and if we're that far out on the internals, we don't need another ticket right now.
18:55 allison yes, close it
18:55 Coke allison: VTABLE_type is currently marked as deprecated. Does that count as C?
18:55 Coke since you can't directly invoke a vtable, I'd say so. So I think we can reject that ticket, and not worry about VTABLE_morph
18:56 allison chromatic: no, they shouldn't, but they don't have another interface yet (a pmc_new_str or something like that)
18:56 allison Coke: yes, we keep VTABLE_type for now
18:56 allison reject the ticket
18:56 Coke ok. I'll reject that ticket and cleanup DEPRECATED.
18:56 Coke hopefully we can wrap up a few more before release, too.
18:56 particle allison: perhaps it's time to rename the current pmc_new to pmc_new_typeid
18:56 Coke I encourage language folks in repo to test test test. we've been deleting a lot of stuff.
18:57 allison particle: good idea
18:58 chromatic Next question?
18:59 rurban I'm late. Just wanted to say: started testing the upcoming cygwin-1.7 with gcc-4.3
18:59 particle rurban: did you package 0.8 for cygwin?
18:59 rurban not yet. no time at all.
18:59 particle ok, might as well wait for 0.8.1
19:00 particle allison: how's the debian packaging going?
19:00 pmichaud japhb (and others):  the += bug you're seeing is RT #60036
19:00 allison I was just wondering that myself, smash has been doing it lately, but he's busy with school
19:00 japhb pmichaud: thx
19:01 allison so, 0.8.0 probably didn't happen, but I can do 0.8.1
19:01 pmichaud we could potentially try to work around it in rakudo.
19:01 particle ok, let's push the packaging discussion to pds
19:01 pmichaud particle:  add to agenda, perhaps?
19:02 particle yes, please
19:02 particle i'm too busy with work now, somebody please do it?
19:02 pmichaud done.
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19:04 Coke hey, zarquon.
19:05 chromatic cotto, any report?
19:05 cotto just misc. Pipp grammar and actions work
19:06 cotto eor
19:06 chromatic Thanks.
19:06 chromatic Any other questions?
19:08 chromatic Let's call it a week.
19:08 chromatic See you this weekend.
19:08 rurban bye
19:09 barney tschüss
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