Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #parrotsketch, 2008-11-18

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
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18:31 masak hi
18:31 moritz helo
18:31 Coke joined #parrotsketch
18:31 allison ola
18:31 barney hi
18:31 Coke ohaiyo gozaimasu
18:32 cotto sup
18:32 NotFound joined #parrotsketch
18:33 spinclad .oO( allo )
18:33 moritz so who plays master of ceremonies today?
18:34 allison no chromatic?
18:34 allison Coke?
18:35 chromatic joined #parrotsketch
18:35 chromatic allison, please start.
18:36 allison - The first Parrot Dev Summit was a great success.
18:36 allison - Worked with Jerry on testing/fixing the new I/O architecture on Windows. Now passes all tests.
18:36 allison - Finished porting/debugging buffering for reads and writes.
18:36 allison - Adding the final few methods to the FileHandle PMC, preparing to merge I/O branch right after the release today.
18:36 allison EOR
18:36 chromatic barney?
18:36 barney Applied some patches.
18:37 barney Fiddled with Pipp.
18:37 barney Got stuck because I misunderstood PCT.
18:37 barney .eor
18:37 chromatic I applied some patches and fixed some bugs.
18:38 chromatic Per discussion, I've decided that we can release this version with a check for Storable 2.12, not 2.18.  If things break, we can get more creative.
18:38 chromatic I've fixed almost all bugs in fulltest, but found a big issue with classes and bytecode that I probably can't fix before the release (make testr fails one test).
18:38 chromatic More reports welcome.
18:38 chromatic Otherwise, I'll do the release tonight, so please keep filling in NEWS and other documentation, and make only low-impact commits.
18:38 chromatic Coke?
18:39 Coke .
18:39 Coke ripped more code out of parrot
18:39 Coke got most of ::tcl::mathop working in partcl. (~100 more passing tests)
18:39 Coke partcl is slow. hellllp.
18:39 Coke working on implementing [load foo.pbc] in partcl. Worst bit is providing a way to get at the top level parrot namespace from partcl. (which has a fake NS root at parrot's ['tcl'] NS.
18:39 Coke .
18:39 chromatic cotto?
18:39 cotto * getting a grip on PCT by refactoring Pipp's PHP tag handling
18:40 cotto * am fixing #59810 by removing seed arg from key_hash_* functions (will consult list before committing, of course)
18:40 cotto * applied various and sundried patches to PIRify tests, make vim-install happy on windows and fix URLs in generated Makefiles
18:40 cotto .eor
18:40 chromatic japhb?
18:40 chromatic masak?
18:41 masak * contributing to Rakudo by finding and reporting bugs
18:41 masak * crossing my fingers for the imminent lex unbreaking
18:41 masak that pmichaud++'s working on
18:41 masak * Rakudo is cool already, and getting cooler
18:41 masak * working on November, gaining speed in the last few days
18:41 masak * having a hackathon right now
18:41 masak EOR
18:41 chromatic moritz?
18:41 moritz * usual testing and patching
18:41 moritz * Here's my offer to the rakudo hackers: if you fix a bug for which there's a ticket in RT, you can assign it to me if tests are needed. I can't promise anything, but I'll do my best. (jonathan++ for doing that first)
18:41 moritz .end
18:41 chromatic NotFound?
18:42 NotFound Very few these last weeks. A few fixes and some updates from deprecated pir syntax
18:42 NotFound eor
18:42 chromatic particle?
18:42 particle ~ at parrot developer summit, we created a roadmap for parrot 1.0 and beyond, available at https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/wiki/ParrotRoadmap
18:42 particle ~ notably, parrot 1.0 is due for release on 17MAR2009
18:42 particle ~ this release aims to achieve a stable api for hll developers
18:42 particle ~ started work on some roadmap tasks
18:42 particle ~ fixed bugs, applied patches, created/updated tickets
18:43 particle .end
18:43 chromatic pmichaud?
18:43 pmichaud ** Rakudo spectests (r32819): 220 files, 4576 passing, 41 failing
18:43 pmichaud == Miscellaneous
18:43 pmichaud : attended Parrot Developer Summit
18:43 pmichaud : updated NEWS, DEPRECATED
18:43 pmichaud : removed get_array and get_hash from Capture/Capture_PIR (deprecated)
18:43 pmichaud == Parrot stuff
18:43 pmichaud : did a lot of work on lex2 branch; very close
18:43 pmichaud : need to fix context refcounts in Parrot (working on that now)
18:43 pmichaud == PCT stuff
18:43 pmichaud : make sure 'callmethod' nodes quote method names
18:43 pmichaud : added 'add_method' method to P6object metaclasses
18:43 pmichaud == Rakudo stuff
18:43 pmichaud : updated ROADMAP
18:43 pmichaud : cleaned up Num.ACCEPTS
18:44 pmichaud : added .PARROT method (this will likely move to P6object)
18:44 pmichaud : fixed ObjectRef semantics for PGE::Match objects
18:44 pmichaud : Parrot Strings now auto-promote to Rakudo Str on assignment
18:44 pmichaud : Rakudo now maps Parrot BigInt as Rakudo Int
18:44 pmichaud : made moritz++ 's offer about rt tickets into rakudo official policy
18:44 pmichaud 1 Question
18:44 pmichaud .end
18:44 chromatic tewk_?
18:44 cotto 1 question
18:44 chromatic wknight8111?
18:45 wknight8111 *Calling conventions branch
18:45 wknight8111 **Renamed Parrot_PCCINVOKE to Parrot_pcc_invoke_method_from_c_args
18:45 wknight8111 **Got a few functions unified and refactored with help from allison++
18:45 wknight8111 **Been writing more documentation about it all
18:45 wknight8111 **Preparing/planning the next steps in this project (ready to merge it in later tonight)
18:45 wknight8111 EOR
18:45 chromatic Did I miss anyone?
18:46 chromatic Okay.  Question time.  pmichaud.
18:47 pmichaud as part of the lex2 branch we no longer need the Closure PMC.  IMCC doesn't generate it, and if updated it doesn't do anything different from a normal Sub PMC.  Shall I remove it (and mark it as deprecated in today's release)?
18:48 chromatic Remove on the branch and mark as deprecated on trunk (just to clarify).
18:48 particle can you check with rgrjr first?
18:48 particle i don't know of anyone else who might be using Closure
18:48 barney Can capturing of :outer vars be turned off for 'Sub' ?
18:49 Coke mark it deprecated. if we undeprecate it later, that's fine.
18:50 Coke (A QWESTON. I HAZ WON.)
18:50 chromatic cotto has the next question.
18:50 cotto Post 1.0, what will the process of building and running a out-of-tree Parrot-based compiler look like?
18:50 cotto Especially, will languages need to be downloaded into Parrot's languages dir, or is something else planned?
18:50 chromatic If make install doesn't work by 1.0, it's not 1.0.
18:51 cotto and once make install works, the languages can live wherever they want?
18:51 Coke at 1.0, no languages should be in core.
18:51 allison cotto: yes, they can live anywhere
18:51 Coke IMO.
18:51 allison Coke: that's the general idea
18:51 Coke "you don't have to go home but you can't stay here."
18:52 cotto coke++
18:52 cotto eoq
18:52 pmichaud at 1.0, only example languages will live in core.
18:52 wknight8111 ...if you call that livin'
18:52 Tene joined #parrotsketch
18:52 pmichaud we may still have languages, but most "real" languages will be in their own repos.
18:52 Coke (see also partcl for an example of how to live outside of core. =-)
18:52 allison Coke: some may still be in the repository, but we won't include them in the tarball
18:52 Coke allison;reasonable.
18:52 allison Coke: will ship them in separate tarballs
18:52 allison Coke: but, we encourage moving out
18:53 allison especially encourage using an existing public infrastructure like google code or sourceforge, for greater visibility
18:53 Tene What?  But if I move out, I'll have to get a job.  When I live here I don't have to pay rent.
18:54 spinclad .oO( rent? great idea! take a note, Marge! )
18:55 pmichaud barney:  (capture of outer vars on #parrot)
18:56 chromatic coke, you had a question.
18:57 Coke "why is partcl so slow?"
18:57 chromatic You're doing it wrong?
18:57 Coke OOOOH, I have a followup question.
18:58 Coke which is, "which bits am I doing wrong?", but I know that's a hard one to answer with the current toolset.
18:59 chromatic Sadly, yes.
18:59 chromatic Are there other questions?
19:00 cotto Are we there yet?
19:01 masak cotto: March 17.
19:01 Tene Was there discussion of how we're going to advertise our new release plan?
19:01 cotto sorry, not intended to be serious
19:01 masak cotto: :)
19:01 chromatic Tene, not much.
19:02 allison Tene: we'll make the information public, but not make a big deal out of it
19:02 moritz should I write something for perlmonks.org
19:02 Coke I suggest picking Andy Lester and Josh McAdams brains.
19:02 allison Tene: the big deal is after releasing 1.0
19:02 Tene Okay.
19:03 allison making a big deal about a *plan* to release 1.0 isn't going to have much impact when people have been waiting for it for years, just sounds like more promises
19:03 * Tene nods.
19:03 Tene I'm done, then.
19:03 particle i'm converting the roadmap to a table
19:03 particle so we can add columns like ticket number
19:04 chromatic Last chance for questions.
19:05 pmichaud any idea when we _should_ start using trac for tickets?
19:05 pmichaud perhaps when we're able to move the parrotbug@perl.org address?
19:05 allison pmichaud: as soon as I get the parrot-tickets@lists.parrot.org set up
19:06 pmichaud excellent.
19:06 masak we're switching to trac? why?
19:06 pmichaud is there a ticket for that?  ;-)
19:06 Coke yes, actually.
19:06 allison pmichaud: it's in my hiveminder queue too
19:06 pmichaud my hiveminder queue keeps getting bigger.  That's probably not a good sign.
19:06 Coke I don't think we have to shut off RT yet; we can gently push people towards the new system.
19:07 Coke (but let's not dawdle once the new one is turned on.)
19:07 allison masak: to move off perl.org infrastructure, and for better integration with SVN and the development wiki
19:07 pmichaud one of our 1.0 milestones was that tickets would be closed/migrated in RT.
19:07 pmichaud also, thus far Trac seems much quicker than RT.
19:07 masak allison, pmichaud: ok.
19:07 pmichaud (also, note that rakudo tickets will remain in RT, since they're Perl)
19:08 allison pmichaud: that could just be better hardware, I don't know the general performance characteristics of the two
19:08 pmichaud allison: good point.
19:08 allison pmichaud: we are on screaming fast hardware at OSU OSL
19:08 masak pmichaud: good. I like RT.
19:08 * Coke is out.
19:08 Coke left #parrotsketch
19:08 pmichaud from the user perspective, though, trac is faster than perl.org's RT instance :-)
19:08 barney and Trac can be ported to pynie
19:08 allison pmichaud: true
19:09 pmichaud okay, I'm done.  Back to working on lex2.
19:09 masak \o/
19:11 chromatic Let's call it a week then.
19:11 moritz ciao
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