Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #parrotsketch, 2008-12-30

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
14:18 kj joined #parrotsketch
14:22 kj won't make it tonight, so preposting now:
14:22 kj ==PIRC
14:22 kj + bytecode generation works great
14:22 kj + all basics work, non-keyed ops and sub calling
14:22 kj + no fancy stuff: no flags except :named works (kinda)
14:22 kj + there's some bugs somewhere in iterating the data structures
14:22 kj + would like some carification on how keys are stored in bytecode
14:22 kj .end
14:22 kj bye
14:23 kj left #parrotsketch
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17:31 Coke joined #parrotsketch
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18:01 rurban joined #parrotsketch
18:25 barney joined #parrotsketch
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18:29 chromatic joined #parrotsketch
18:30 tewk joined #parrotsketch
18:30 pmichaud good localtime
18:30 masak \o
18:30 barney hi
18:30 chromatic hello
18:31 jhorwitz yo
18:32 chromatic Let's start.  barney?
18:33 allison joined #parrotsketch
18:33 barney [Pipp]
18:33 barney Started on support for closures.
18:33 barney Fiddling with objects.
18:33 barney Some cleanup in grammar.
18:33 barney [Parrot]
18:33 barney Applied some patches.
18:33 barney .eor
18:34 chromatic allison?
18:34 allison - Started, completed, and merged in a branch to make FileHandles subclassable/substitutable.
18:34 allison - Created a tasklist for GC work.
18:35 allison - Resolved some problems on the 'remove_pic' branch.
18:35 allison - Worked on integrating the changes from the calling_conventions branch into a fresh branch.
18:35 allison - Deleted old branch for PDD 30 'install' refactors. Reviewing fresh application of Reini's patches in fresh branch.
18:35 allison - Changed I/O modes so 'a' (append) also sets write mode.
18:35 allison EOR
18:35 chromatic I closed some bugs and fixed some compiler warnings.
18:35 chromatic I also sped up some STRING handling; in particular, PGE should be about a third faster.
18:36 chromatic Jonathan and I and others also discussed optimizations to parameter passing.
18:36 chromatic I have a very preliminary, dirty patch for pmichaud to benchmark PGE against.
18:36 chromatic I'll work on GC tomorrow.
18:36 chromatic Coke?
18:36 Coke partcl -
18:36 Coke Trying to make partcl go faster and consume less memory.
18:36 Coke In the absence of useful diagnostics, turns out this is hard.
18:36 Coke Recent changes to partcl/parrot have lost several spec tests
18:36 Coke (due to OOM PANICS)and quadrupled the run time of the suite.
18:36 Coke parrot -
18:36 Coke worked on deprecation a bit.
18:36 Coke .
18:37 chromatic japhb?
18:37 japhb nr
18:37 chromatic jhorwitz?
18:38 jhorwitz fixed some minor mod_parrot bugs
18:38 jhorwitz found some issues wrt "use" semantics in rakudo, one of which is definitely a bug (RT #61826), the other was being discussed on the list (RT #61742).
18:38 jhorwitz with pdd22io_part3 merged in (allison++), i'm now working on ModParrotHandle PMC to serve as stdin/stdout in registry-style handlers.  will release mod_parrot 0.5 when that's done and tested.
18:38 jhorwitz got a VMware ESX environment up and running for multi-platform testing :)
18:38 jhorwitz some foundation accounting tasks
18:38 jhorwitz q1q
18:38 jhorwitz EOR
18:39 chromatic masak?
18:39 masak * Been distracted from #ps lately due to end-of-term at uni.
18:39 masak * Created 63 tests this month.
18:39 masak * Other hobbies:
18:39 masak ** Hacking on November the Perl 6 wiki.
18:39 masak ** Hacking on a 3d board game called druid.
18:39 masak ** Thinking about improving S29.
18:39 masak * Not a lot of Rakudo patching lately.
18:39 masak ^D
18:39 chromatic particle?
18:40 chromatic rurban?
18:40 rurban - still not git, svn + quilt is better for me, so far.
18:40 rurban - pdd30install_stage3: finished. Allison does the review. Then it can be merged.
18:40 rurban make reallyinstall is then deprecated.
18:40 rurban - did the cygwin release of 0.8.2, based on that branch. Finally found the blocker
18:40 rurban for the previous release 0.8.1 which I missed.
18:40 rurban - working now on 40817-MANIFEST-generated.patch,
18:40 rurban with a small tools/build/addgenerate.pl
18:40 rurban also in pdd30install_stage3 (not yet in)
18:40 rurban - one or two tiny fixes in trunk
18:40 rurban ^D
18:40 chromatic Tene?
18:41 chromatic tewk?
18:41 tewk Working on class registry attempt two.  EOR
18:43 chromatic Wknight8111?
18:43 Wknight8111 * Mostly did $reallife stuff and not much work on Parrot
18:43 Wknight8111 * Followed some tickets around and talked on the list
18:43 Wknight8111 * Some idle twiddling on the GC and some other things.
18:43 Wknight8111 EOR
18:43 chromatic jhorwitz, you had a question.
18:44 * pmichaud q1q
18:44 jhorwitz yes...
18:45 jhorwitz allison: i tried subclassing StringHandle in PIR -- didn't work out of the box.  IIRC you said that should work?
18:45 allison jhorwitz: should, yes, but didn't write tests for that. let me know what problems you encountered
18:45 jhorwitz ok, we can take the details offline...
18:46 jhorwitz that's all for me
18:46 chromatic StringHandle is still using STRINGs incorrectly I believe, but I need to write code to demonstrate that.
18:46 chromatic pmichaud?
18:46 pmichaud q:  can I give my report, now?  ;-)
18:47 masak :)
18:47 chromatic Go ahead.
18:47 pmichaud ** Rakudo spectests (r34615): 264 files, 5912 passing, 0 failing
18:47 pmichaud +79 passing tests since last #ps.
18:47 pmichaud == Parrot stuff
18:47 pmichaud : Had a long and productive discussion with allison++ about the class registry
18:47 pmichaud : Here's the summary
18:47 pmichaud . Using string class names such as $P0 = new "Foo" is highly discouraged
18:47 pmichaud . Use  $P0 = new ['Foo']  instead
18:47 pmichaud . Class names in new/subclass/isa etc. are always relative to HLL root
18:47 pmichaud . To use a class from another HLL namespace, one must do so via the
18:47 pmichaud foreign namespace.  This includes fetching 'parrot' classes.
18:47 pmichaud . Internally, Parrot should use class objects instead of strings for classes
18:47 pmichaud : In light of the above, PGE, PCT, and Rakudo will begin migrating
18:47 pmichaud completely away from the $P0 = new "Foo" variants.
18:47 pmichaud : Fixed some compiler warnings
18:47 pmichaud == PGE stuff
18:47 pmichaud : Now properly recognizes adverbs with leading spaces in regexes
18:47 pmichaud : Added the "goal matching" syntax from S05    '(' ~ ')' <expression>
18:47 pmichaud == PCT stuff
18:47 pmichaud : Finished loop refactor, closing a Jan 2009 milestone  (Tene++)
18:47 pmichaud : New code is much simpler, straightforward
18:48 pmichaud : In rvar branch
18:48 pmichaud . added 'stmts' :pasttype
18:48 pmichaud . new :scope('register') capabilities
18:48 pmichaud . made .symbol() a bit smarter
18:48 pmichaud == Rakudo stuff
18:48 pmichaud : Added 'last' and 'redo' exceptions
18:48 pmichaud : Adjusted infix:<~> and prefix:<~> to always force Rakudo Str objects
18:48 pmichaud : Added Match objects
18:48 pmichaud : Fixed .map/.grep/.values etc to treat scalars as lists of 1 element.
18:48 pmichaud : Fixed parsing of pointy blocks in term position.
18:48 pmichaud : Adjusted autothreading of infix:<~~>
18:48 pmichaud : Working on a major refactor of variable and parameter handling, going well
18:48 pmichaud . Array and Hash parameters now dtrt
18:48 pmichaud . Create and attach explicit Signature objects to subs
18:48 pmichaud . Now complains about variable redeclaration in same scope
18:48 pmichaud EOR
18:48 chromatic Other questions?
18:50 chromatic Concerns about the roadmap?
18:50 chromatic Requests for help (besides partcl)?
18:50 Coke is GC actually going to hit for this release?
18:50 allison Coke: a GC refactor will
18:51 allison the incremental GC module won't
18:51 Coke ok. parrotRoadmap says "Gc refactor" but points to TT#3 which is "new gc system"
18:51 Coke (setting expections)++
18:52 allison should change that to point to a different ticket
18:52 allison or, to the GC tasklist wiki page
18:52 Coke The deprecation milestone for 0.9.0 is not workable.
18:53 allison Coke: which? (looking up page now)
18:53 Coke (it says "remove all" - there's stuff in there that we just don't have the tuits for, like chip's old request)
18:53 pmichaud on the roadmap
18:53 pmichaud iirc, at pds one of the goals for the 1.0 release was to do a release with no outstanding deprecations
18:54 allison Coke: oh, push that to the next month
18:54 Coke i don't see that happening, either, if we're going to keep to our schedule.
18:54 allison Coke: it's only critical for 1.0
18:54 allison Coke: what are the blockers?
18:54 chromatic Ugh, PMC union.
18:54 allison okay, that's not going away before 1.0
18:55 allison it may be that we need to remove some old deprecation items from the file
18:55 Coke so, we probably need to split up that "all deprecations" into chunks.
18:55 * particle arrives, without news to report
18:55 allison Coke: yes
18:55 Coke which conveniently is already done in the .POD. =-)
18:55 pmichaud keep in mind that if we want 1.0 to have no outstanding deprecations (however we define it), then Feb 2009 is our last opportunity to deprecate anything.
18:55 pmichaud (before 1.0)
18:56 particle let's concentrate on the user-facing deprecations
18:56 Coke I would recommend adding a second release to each deprecation; the release by which it MUST be removed. then PMC union can be marked as '1.5', or something.
18:56 particle namely, opcodes, exported functions, and pmcs
18:56 allison frankly, I'm fine with still having deprecation notices in, as long as they're attached to a sane future release, like 1.5 or 2.0
18:57 allison Coke: don't list 2 versions, just change the version number the deprecation is scheduled for
18:57 Coke also, I've done all I can in the remove_pic branch; I can only rip stuff out, not fix it. =-)
18:57 allison Coke: well, all tests are passing now
18:57 allison Coke: do you have language test problems?
18:57 Coke I haven't tested languages there.
18:58 Wknight8111 have you tested it with all the runcores?
18:58 allison Coke: or, problems with different runcores?
18:58 Coke I didn't even realize all the tests were passing.
18:58 allison Coke: I made a few fixes this week
18:58 Coke i had pretty much given up on it after the confusion about what the original ticket was asking.
18:58 Coke I'll revisit.
18:58 allison the original ticket was pretty vague
18:59 Coke I have some more q's about deprecation stuff that can go to #parrot.
18:59 particle the whole ticket doesn't need to be addressed in order for the branch to merge
18:59 allison if it doesn't cause any new language failures, and doesn't cause any new runcore failures, I say merge it in
18:59 particle but fulltest does need to work everywhere
19:00 rurban On the roadmap there's my name at two critical points which I don't understand: ops tools, pmc tools. I have time, looks simple, but no idea what to do. Please add someone the tickets, email or irc log url.
19:00 allison rurban: which release?
19:01 rurban the next. 0.9.0
19:01 allison oh, for the pdd30-install task
19:01 rurban I put now a "?" to it.
19:01 rurban pmc tools and ops tools are finished imho in my branch
19:03 rurban I didn't touch them, besides the new 40817-MANIFEST-generated.patch which logs the filenames
19:04 rurban Is it that what it should be? RT#40817. but that's not critical
19:08 allison rurban: will review RT #40817 after #ps
19:16 allison any more questions?
19:18 rurban nope
19:19 allison Then that's a wrap, thanks everybody!
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19:39 tewk :q
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