Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #parrotsketch, 2009-05-12

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Time Nick Message
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10:53 kid51 Hello, I wonder if today there could be some discussion of the content and format of the Parrot workshop preceding YAPC in Pittsburgh.
10:54 kid51 Need to know the balance between presentations, hackathon, etc.
10:54 kid51 Need to get a sense of where I'd fit in, whether it would be worth it for me/others to come early, etc.  Thanks.
11:56 Whiteknight joined #parrotsketch
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16:37 Tene prereporting: got absurdly busy with work, did absolutely nothing.  EOR.
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18:30 allison Hi all, who's here?
18:30 pmichaud Hello.
18:30 NotFound hola
18:30 jhorwitz aye
18:31 fperrad hello
18:31 darbelo Hi
18:31 moritz hi
18:31 cotto hi
18:31 barney hi
18:32 Util Hi
18:32 allison chromatic said he'd be 10-15 mins late, so let's get started
18:32 masak hi
18:32 allison we'll go in order of hi's
18:32 Coke hi
18:32 allison pmichaud?
18:33 jonathan joined #parrotsketch
18:33 allison or, jhorwitz?
18:34 jhorwitz fixed a bunch of regressions on mod_parrot.  submitted/updated some tickets for obscure parrot/rakudo bugs.
18:34 jhorwitz refactoring mod_parrot configuration so i can break out mod_perl6 from the distribution.  ran into some problems, which leads me to...
18:34 jhorwitz queue a question for later
18:34 jhorwitz EOR
18:34 pmichaud (here now -- wasn't expecting to be called on first)
18:35 allison pmichaud: go ahead
18:35 pmichaud * Rakudo now passing 11,187 spectests (+176 since last week)
18:35 pmichaud * Fixed a bug in PCT that would evaluate program results for truth instead of definedness
18:35 pmichaud * Updated PGE to provide the .orig method on Match objects
18:35 pmichaud * Found a Perl6Grammar bug dealing with unicode characters; fixing it
18:35 pmichaud * Cleaned up Rakudo's build system a bit more
18:35 pmichaud * Cleaned up Rakudo's subtyping code
18:35 pmichaud * Worked on fixing @_ and %_ handling in Rakudo
18:35 pmichaud * Working today on defining custom operators in Rakudo
18:35 pmichaud q2q
18:35 pmichaud EOR
18:36 NotFound left #parrotsketch
18:36 allison NotFound?
18:36 NotFound joined #parrotsketch
18:36 allison perfect timing for dropping off
18:37 moritz ;-)
18:37 allison NotFound, do you have a report?
18:37 NotFound * A few bug fixes
18:37 NotFound * Lots of cage cleaning
18:37 NotFound EOR
18:37 allison fperrad?
18:37 fperrad * Lua: fix build after Parrot merges
18:38 fperrad EOR
18:38 allison darbelo?
18:38 darbelo decnums-dynpmcs:
18:38 darbelo * Cleaned up the Makefiles, added examples, no tests yet.
18:38 darbelo * The per-pmc-context prototype is sort-of-functional.   +-/* work as does changing the rounding mode. Exceptions are raised on invalid operations.
18:38 darbelo * global-context (singleton) PMC is sort-of-functional too.   The rounding mode is changeable and has proper singleton semantics.
18:38 darbelo * the PMC to use the global-context is in the works.
18:38 darbelo * Blogged some thoughts I had on singleton PMCs too.
18:38 darbelo * Got my hands on a amd64 machine for testing. I'll see if I can start smoking OpenBSD-amd64.
18:39 darbelo EOR
18:39 allison moritz?
18:39 moritz * my third Perl 6 articles in iX magazine got published, fourth and fine submitted
18:40 moritz * blogging about Perl 6
18:40 moritz * more testing, simple patches for Rakudo
18:40 moritz EOR
18:40 allison cotto?
18:41 cotto * renamed the PCT-based PMC compiler to pmcc
18:41 cotto * got ATTR inheritance and header macro generation working in pmc_pct
18:41 cotto * pmc_pct will be blocking on pcc_rewiring in a week or so
18:41 cotto .eor
18:41 cotto q2q
18:41 allison barney?
18:41 barney nothing to report
18:41 allison Util?
18:41 barney hope for some quiet days in beginning of june
18:41 Util * Tuits ==> wedding( $step_son, Dream $girl, 'Saturday' );
18:41 barney .eor
18:41 Util * Tried building parrot with --cc=clang. The blocker that moritz++ found last year (#line not honored?) was fixed by the Clang team in February. The build now succeeds all the way to the linking of libparrot, where it fails due to "multiple definitions of symbol" in src/pmc/big{int,num}.o. I do not expect to pursue it further myself.
18:41 Util * Changed the pir_to_exe patch to build a single block from multiple strings at compile-time, but this was defeated by GCC optimizing duplicate strings into single entries in the string table. Currently changing to copy strings to a single block at run-time.
18:41 Util EOR
18:42 allison masak?
18:42 masak * Submitted 8 Rakudobugs since last week.
18:42 masak * Quite some work on Web.pm, a lot of work on proto.
18:42 masak eor
18:42 allison Coke?
18:43 pmichaud (q another q, for a total of 3)
18:43 Coke parrot - Added some regression tests. - Fixed some tests to work properly in 5.8.8 (cxreg++) - Created a script to help figure out what to do with old branches - Ripped out deprecated OS X dynload C calls.
18:43 Coke partcl - Still dead.
18:43 Coke Q1Q
18:43 allison jonathan?
18:44 jonathan A few Rakudo bits...
18:44 jonathan * Got .WALK looking better, need feedback though...
18:44 jonathan * $foo.@candidates(...) works now
18:44 jonathan * Refactored callsame and callwith to work with candidate lists, and added nextsame and nextwith
18:44 jonathan * Re-wrote .wrap and .unwrap to work in terms of candidate lists; happily a nasty closures issue with the previous cut is not an issue for this one
18:44 jonathan * Implemented "parallel" dispatch, seems to work nicely
18:44 jonathan * Procrastinating on the painful refactors P6object needs; will dig in soon otherwise I need to write nasty hacks into Rakudo for other stuff I want to get done
18:44 jonathan * Did hyper-operators on hashes
18:44 jonathan * Re-worked Rakudo's role composition - Parrot's "compose early" semantics ain't good for Perl 6
18:44 jonathan * Few other fixes here and there
18:44 jonathan Parrot
18:44 jonathan * Fixed a bug that meant you couldn't inherit from two anonymous parent classes.
18:44 jonathan .end
18:45 allison allison?
18:45 allison Parrot:
18:45 allison - Prepared packages for inclusion in Ubuntu 9.10.
18:45 allison - Working on editing the book, need to have that finished in the next couple of weeks.
18:45 allison - Working on the calling conventions branch.
18:45 allison - Writing a Parrot article for Linux Magazine.
18:45 allison EOR
18:45 allison Did we miss anyone?
18:46 allison okay, on to questions, starting with jhorwitz
18:47 jhorwitz i'm using parrot_config to grab configs so i can configure mod_*
18:47 jhorwitz some values have Makefiles variables like $(PERL) or $(LIBS)
18:47 jhorwitz shouldn't those be expanded?
18:48 allison you mean you're getting a value from parrot_config that contains a literal string $(PERL)?
18:48 jhorwitz correct
18:48 pmichaud cp => '$(PERL) -MExtUtils::Command -e cp'
18:48 allison mmm... that is wrong
18:49 moritz => ticket
18:49 allison yes, they should be expanded
18:49 jhorwitz now that i know it's an issue i shall open a ticket.  :)
18:49 Coke I thought that the makefile would expand them, no?
18:49 Coke that's how it works in the build dir.
18:49 allison it will if you've defined $PERL in the makefile
18:49 pmichaud Coke: assuming that config information is only used in a makefile
18:49 jhorwitz i'm not using them in a Makefile.
18:50 jhorwitz configure scripts won't either
18:50 Coke if you have a configure script, presumably you know how to run 'cp' ?
18:50 moritz I don't think that's the point of this discussion.
18:51 NotFound There are more than $(PERL)
18:51 jhorwitz better example: libparrot_shared => 'libparrot$(SHARE_EXT).$(SOVERSION)'
18:51 NotFound libparrot => '$(LIBPARROT_SHARED)'
18:51 barney In Makefile you need to define $(PERL) before you can use $(CP)
18:51 allison Coke: likely, yes, but if we're going to provide the default so people don't have to think, it makes sense to provide a default that works in all the contexts we expect it to be used
18:52 Coke allison: I thought we had. (makefiles)
18:52 NotFound I'd like better to say "don't have to work" rather than "don't have to think" ;)
18:53 allison NotFound: aye
18:53 Coke jhorwitz: how are you configuring mod_* ?
18:53 allison Coke: that's one important context, but not the only one
18:54 jhorwitz Coke: a Configure.pl script that takes Parrot's config and Apache's and merges them appropriately, using a Makefile.in template
18:54 jhorwitz it needs the config outside the context of a Makefile
18:54 Coke ok. so if you already have a makefile.in template, why can't you use the makefile variables?
18:55 allison I do wonder how useful knowing the path to the perl used to build Parrot is to the general world, but it doesn't hurt anything
18:55 jhorwitz $(PERL) was just an example.  :)
18:55 allison Coke: do you see a downside to expanding variables inside parrot_config?
18:55 allison I see one, and that is what if one variable changes?
18:56 allison it'd almost be preferable to perform the substitutions as the value was returned
18:56 Coke <shrug> I don't mind if someone else does it. I just am not seeing why it's necessary. <shrug>
18:57 pmichaud isn't the output from parrot_config fairly static, once built?
18:57 Coke nearly hardcoded, yes.
18:57 jhorwitz also, configure scripts (autoconf) will likely want to run parrot_config directly to grab all the info
18:57 allison once parrot_config is compiled, yes
18:57 pmichaud I think that's the use case we're describing here -- i.e., only after compilation.
18:57 moritz if somebody builds parrot, and then moves his perl installation, it's hardly parrot's task to track such changes
18:57 Coke allison, Whiteknight has a report but is too timid to speak up.
18:57 allison so, perhaps it's a substitution during the compilation?
18:58 allison Whiteknight: go ahead
18:58 allison (and don't be timid :)
18:58 jhorwitz Coke: I might be able to put everything into the Makefile at this point, but I know I couldn't before
18:58 Whiteknight I cleaned up the GC API (like some feedback on that) and have been planning the switch to Context PMCs
18:58 Whiteknight (thanks Coke) EOR
18:58 allison thanks, Whiteknight
18:59 Whiteknight (sorry I'm late!)
18:59 allison jhorwitz: can you submit an RFC ticket, summarizing the discussion here?
18:59 jhorwitz absolutely
18:59 allison jhorwitz: I need to think through how we're going to do the "pure install" version of parrot_config, and this might actually help there
19:00 jhorwitz i imagine so.
19:00 allison (we could compose more config values in terms of other config values, instead of repeating ourselves in a hundred literal strings)
19:01 allison (especially wiping out those hardcoded /usr/local/lib entries scattered all over, that are causing problems for partcl)
19:01 allison okay, next question, pmichaud had 3
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19:02 pmichaud 4 now.  :-)
19:02 pmichaud simple ones first.
19:02 pmichaud 1.  running "make test" for Parrot seems to run the NQP tests first on my machine -- that seems backwards.  Should it run them more towards the end?
19:02 pmichaud (i.e., I'd expect more basic tests first before trying NQP)
19:03 allison yes, makes sense
19:03 jonathan (it does the same on my machine too, it's not just pm)
19:03 pmichaud I'll file a ticket.
19:03 allison after the basic tests and after the PGE tests
19:03 pmichaud Q for Util:  will copying strings at program startup significantly impact startup time or memory footprint ?
19:04 pmichaud at this point, I'd hate to convert a compile-time cost into a runtime one.
19:05 Util I benchmarked a mock-up, and it increased it by 0.01s. I eliminated CPU cache as a factor in the DEST part of the benchmark, but not in the SRC half, so expect slightly longer real impact, but not much more.
19:05 pmichaud how about memory footprint?  Will we effectively end up with two copies of perl6.pbc in memory?
19:06 NotFound I'm unable to build rakudo now, thus the runtime cost is infinite
19:06 pmichaud That's a reasonable counter-point.
19:07 Util I do not have numbers yet, but I am coding with RLE compression of NULLs, and I would guess 30% overhead of strings, instead of 100% of duplication.
19:07 pmichaud But perhaps we should be creating an executable that mmaps the perl6.pbc into memory and then runs it, instead of placing perl6.pbc bytecode directly into the fakecutable.
19:07 pmichaud (or whatever an appropriate replacement for mmap is)
19:08 moritz maybe only enable the copying solution for MSVC, and use the sane "long string" solution everywhere else?
19:09 pmichaud it might be difficult to reliably detect msvc (and possibly not worth the optimization, since pbc_to_exe is afaik supposed to be a stopgap anyway)
19:09 Util Oh, I left out that element. moritz++. If the max block size > bytecode, it can skip the coping completely.
19:09 pmichaud anyway, I just want to register that runtime performance strongly outweighs compile-time costs at the moment.
19:10 pmichaud (granted that NotFound's situation notes an infinite compile-time cost)
19:10 pmichaud 3.  Are there any plans for a Parrot Developer Summit in 2009?
19:11 pmichaud in particular, are we planning anything around YAPC::EU ?  I'm needing to make travel arrangements
19:11 allison We talked about having it at YAPC::EU this year, but need to do a survey of people likely to attend.
19:11 allison quick show of hands who could make it to a European PDS?
19:11 jonathan I'd attend.
19:11 * pmichaud raises hands
19:11 Whiteknight not me
19:11 jonathan (But also need to make travel arrangements.)
19:11 Coke I'd attend if I could afford it. :|
19:11 * allison too
19:11 Coke <broken reord>
19:11 Coke "record
19:12 allison Coke: needing travel assistance is okay
19:12 allison quick show of hands of people who could only make it in the US?
19:12 allison (or, if US location would prevent you from attending?)
19:13 allison okay, that's helpful
19:13 Whiteknight I could attend a US one (I will be at YAPC::NA)
19:14 jhorwitz i'm almost certain to attend a US one.  european is 50/50 depending on schedule
19:14 allison we'll certainly have a hackfest at YAPC::NA, even if not a PDS
19:14 Whiteknight that's fine by me, I'll make it to PDS in 2013 to discuss version 5.0
19:14 pmichaud at _some_ point I think we need a PDS similar to the one in 2008, if only to flesh out our plans for 2.0 and beyond
19:15 allison another possibility is to do PDS unrelated to any conference like we did last year
19:15 allison pmichaud: yes, we certainly will
19:15 allison and, early August, right after 1.4 is a good time for it
19:15 Coke q1moreq
19:16 pmichaud I don't need to know that we're having a PDS at YAPC::EU -- I'd only need to know that if we're having one then, what dates would it be?
19:16 allison okay, let's tentatively plan PDS for YAPC::EU this year, I'll ask the organizers if they can help us with space
19:16 allison the two days after PDS
19:16 pmichaud It's okay if jonathan+I end up with a couple of extra days in Lisbon :-)
19:16 allison after YAPC::EU, I mean
19:16 allison aye
19:17 allison it'll be a hackathon if it's not a PDS
19:17 pmichaud okay, works for me.
19:17 NotFound Maybe I can go to Lisboa for a day, but I don't promise
19:17 allison pmichaud: is that 3 of the 4 Qs?
19:18 pmichaud Last Q, which can be saved for later:   Where are concurrency and threading on the Parrot roadmap?  They aren't immediately obvious from the trac report.
19:18 barney 2-3 days before and after
19:18 barney in Lisbon
19:18 pmichaud EOQ from me
19:18 allison pmichaud: they're not on the trac report, yet
19:19 jonathan (2 days after Lisbon) works fine for me too
19:19 pmichaud we're starting to get inquiries about threading in Rakudo, and iwbn to know what Parrot's plans are.
19:19 allison do you have a dependency on them for a particular time
19:19 allison putting them on for 2.0 may be overly optimistic, but 2.6 is definitely a possibility
19:19 pmichaud I don't have a dependency, but I think if we get to 2.0 without concurrency then many will start to have doubts about Parrot.
19:20 jonathan allison: It's hard to tie it as a dependency to a date per se, but I know full well that we'd have at least basic threading support in Rakudo now if Parrot could handle it.
19:20 NotFound After Duke Nukem Forever cancellation, all is possible ;)
19:20 allison pmichaud: I take it back, there's an advanced concurrency task for 3.0
19:21 pmichaud I'm more interested in "basic concurrency"  :-)
19:21 jonathan allison: To some degree, the implementation is going to feed into the spec too.
19:21 allison pmichaud: but, I think you're looking for more practical immediate fixes
19:21 allison pmichaud: we already have "basic concurrency"
19:21 allison but, it definitely needs more work
19:22 jonathan allison: By basic meaning useless for HLLs?
19:22 allison can we break it down into specific things that you need?
19:22 pmichaud I can name two items off the top of my head
19:22 allison jonathan: if it's useless, then I need to know how and why it's useless
19:22 pmichaud (1) some ability to create threads of some sort (because people are asking)
19:22 allison we have that, but the interface may need work
19:22 pmichaud (2) ability to run processes and capture the output -- immediate need for qx{   }  and friends
19:23 allison you mean like perl 'system'?
19:23 pmichaud yes, or perl 5 backticks
19:23 moritz no, like perl's backticks
19:23 jonathan allison: I tried to create a thread from within Rakudo. Parrot, depending on the options I gave for starting the thread, either segfaulted, gave errors, looked like it was trying to clone the world, etc.
19:23 pmichaud we have 'system' already
19:23 moritz system in perl 5 doesn't capture the output
19:23 pmichaud (it's called 'run')
19:24 allison jonathan: it does clone the world, a thread is an interpreter
19:24 jonathan allison: I don't remember specifics, I did spend some time trying to make it work.
19:24 jonathan allison: It shouldn't clone, say, the namespaces surely?
19:24 jonathan allison: Or at least, you can tell it not to.
19:25 jonathan I know a one thread has one Parrot_Interpreter struct. That's fine and good.
19:25 allison pmichaud: okay, backticks are the I/O pipe functionality, which does need fixing. IIRC, you have a ticket in for that? If not, put one in and make me owner. Would be nice to have that working for 1.2.
19:25 allison jonathan: depends on what kind of thread
19:25 pmichaud I will make sure there's a ticket with your name on it.
19:26 allison jonathan: if it's "share nothing" then the namespaces have to be cloned
19:26 NotFound I can take a look at (2) for unixy systems. Did we have some proposal for his API?
19:26 pmichaud I think masak++ already posted a message about it to parrot-dev, will resurrect from there.
19:26 allison NotFound: the API is already there
19:26 allison NotFound: it's just bug-fixing
19:27 jonathan allison: Sure, but that's not the only option, right?
19:27 masak pmichaud: aye. "Getting output from system command invocations"
19:27 pmichaud masak: found it, thanks.  I'll link to it in the ticket.
19:27 allison NotFound: see, for example src/io/unix.c Parrot_io_open_pipe_unix
19:28 NotFound Ok
19:28 Whiteknight the "system" opcode needs some work because it's pretty system dependent too. That might be good to dovetail with the pipes issue if we're fixing IO stuff
19:28 jonathan allison: Maybe best is if I try and write "async" into Rakudo, send you a patch and a test case, and we can work out where things aren't matching up?
19:28 allison jonathan: not the only option for threads? yes, there's also share-everything threads
19:29 allison jonathan: yes, that sounds like a good way to start working through it
19:29 jonathan Even if those things can't be fixed up right away, it'd at least give some concrete goals for things to work on.
19:29 allison aye, we need specific tasks
19:29 jonathan OK, I'll try and find my original attempt, or I can quickly create a new one.
19:29 allison there are quite a few people who can work on it once we break it down
19:30 jonathan Aye.
19:30 jonathan tbh part of the problem is that I'm not sure Perl 6 knows what it needs just yet, but I figure some basic support for threading will help start to transform the current ideas into something more concrete.
19:31 allison indeed, experimentation with a prototype is a great way to figure out what you need
19:31 allison okay, if that wraps up that one, we've got 1 question from cotto, then two from Coke
19:32 cotto I had two.  First:
19:32 pmichaud (pipes ticket is #661, assigned to allison)
19:32 allison pmichaud: (thanks!)
19:32 cotto What's preventing a decision on whether readonly should be shallow or deep (RT #46821)?  The RT thread seemed to be leaning toward shallow, but died off before coming to a conclusion.
19:32 fperrad left #parrotsketch
19:33 allison cotto: I'd say what's preventing it is just that no one's made it
19:33 fperrad joined #parrotsketch
19:33 cotto Should I flip a coin?
19:33 pmichaud shallow.
19:33 * allison doing a quick mental refresh looking over the ticket
19:33 moritz coin landed
19:34 allison make it shallow for now
19:34 pmichaud I suspect it's very difficult to force deep readonly semantics.
19:34 allison we can always add some deep readonly semantics later
19:34 NotFound Did we have some test of opening a pipe in pir?
19:35 allison NotFound: no
19:35 cotto ok.  next question
19:35 cotto Was PMC-level multiple inheritance an intentional design decision?
19:35 allison NotFound: (It's not easy to test in a platform-independent way)
19:36 allison cotto: you mean did we intend to make it possible for C PMCs to multiply-inherit?
19:36 allison cotto: or, more context on the question?
19:36 cotto yes
19:37 allison as in, it works now, but you're wondering if it's accidental, or it doesn't work now and you're wondering if it should?
19:37 allison (or it half-works now, and wondering which way to push it?)
19:37 cotto I'm wondering if it's accidental.
19:37 allison it is intentional
19:38 allison many of our target languages support multiple inheritance, so we need to support it too
19:38 cotto ok.  If it was accidental I was going to ask for deprecation, but I'll assume that it works as designed.
19:38 allison not all languages will use it
19:38 cotto eoq then
19:38 fperrad and used (LuaFunction for example)
19:39 cotto and partcl
19:39 allison If you encounter problems, we can extend/modify it as needed
19:39 Coke partcl doesn't require it.
19:39 Coke (it may use it, but it doesn't require it.)
19:40 allison Coke: you had two questions?
19:40 Coke yes. one, I need your feedback on TT#632
19:40 * allison pulls up the ticket
19:40 Coke two, are we for sure going to have the annual vote at yapc::na ?
19:41 Coke Just want to make sure we don't screw up year 1. =-)
19:42 allison Coke: we can do the annual vote entirely virtually, if we need to
19:43 Coke we're going to have to do it virtually. =-)
19:43 Coke we're never going to have all the voting members in a room.
19:43 allison Coke: oh, do you mean board, or members?
19:43 Coke there's a separate vote?
19:43 allison Coke: separate meetings
19:44 allison we have an annual members meeting every year, and an annual board meeting
19:44 allison the board meeting will always be virtual
19:44 allison the members meeting requires 10% of member to be present to have a face-to-face meeting
19:45 allison so, we could do it as face to face, and take in virtual votes from everyone not present
19:45 allison on TT#632, yes PIR_TODO is fine, it needs a matching =end PIR_TODO
19:46 allison (and any comments for the TODO reason in a =for block before
19:46 Coke =for what?
19:47 allison =for PIR_TODO or =for PIR_TODO_COMMENT
19:47 allison =for PIR_TODO_DESCRIPTION
19:47 Coke would PIR_T_C be rendered in the output?
19:47 allison only if we specifically request it
19:48 allison =block PIR_TODO won't be rendered either, by default, but will request that
19:48 allison I'm guessing we'd want to skip rendering P_T_C blocks?
19:49 Coke probably.
19:49 Coke regarding the meetings: just want to make sure that all the ducks are in a row before the yapc meeting. I clearly didn't read the bylaws close enough.
19:50 allison aye, thank you, we need to do some work there, and it isn't on the roadmap, so gets forgotten
19:51 allison hmm... the biggest thing is starting the membership committee, is there anyone interested in volunteering for that?
19:51 allison maybe a mailing list post is in order
19:52 allison I'll do that
19:52 allison any more questions?
19:53 Coke (nope)
19:54 allison okay, our development priority for this week is bug fixing, patch application, and closing tickets
19:55 allison generally preparing for the release next week
19:56 Whiteknight sounds good to me
19:56 allison next is roadmap review
19:56 allison https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/report/14
19:57 allison #504    packfile pmcs
19:57 allison any updates?
19:57 allison I'll move it to 1.3
19:57 Whiteknight ENOBACEK
19:58 allison #565    remove optional features from default config, refactor config probes
19:58 allison I don't recall any work on this one, so moving to 1.3
19:58 allison #566    export conventions (cross hll)
19:58 pmichaud I did not get to work on it this week.
19:58 pmichaud It will need to move to 1.3, but we probably need a "hard 1.3" deadline on it.
19:59 pmichaud i.e., it really should not move to 1.4.
19:59 allison I'll move it and mark it as critical
19:59 allison (since it becomes critical at that point)
19:59 pmichaud That would be good.  It will be a primary task at yapc::na if not completed before then.
19:59 pmichaud (but really need completion before then, even )
19:59 allison #567    pdd31-hll interop
19:59 allison #568    hll interop
20:00 Whiteknight what needs to be done for those?
20:00 Whiteknight the ticket descriptions are particularly unhelpful
20:01 allison the basic idea is to test running two languages simultaneously, and fix any problems
20:01 allison note, that perl6 isn't a good test case, because it isn't yet able to fully use namespaces
20:02 pmichaud actually, it's pretty much there, I think.
20:02 allison excellent!
20:02 pmichaud we still have a few issues here and there to resolve, but the major ones are (afaik) out of the way.
20:02 pmichaud that was the work I did last week.
20:02 pmichaud I've been hoping that Tene++ could pick up on it again.
20:03 allison Whiteknight: If you're interested in doing some tests, I'd be happy to work with you planning what needs to be tested
20:03 Whiteknight that would be good. I'm blocking on all big projects for now
20:03 Whiteknight so whatever else needs a pair of hands, put me on it
20:04 allison okay, let's email or IRC chat right after the meeting
20:04 Whiteknight done. allison++
20:05 allison that wraps up roadmap review
20:05 Tene pmichaud: what am I picking up on?
20:05 Tene I have time this week.
20:06 allison when you're doing ticket review for the week, pay special attention to the tickets tagged for 1.2 https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/roadmap
20:06 pmichaud getting rakudo to run in its own .HLL
20:06 Tene tonight, even.
20:06 Tene OK
20:06 NotFound Did we have some example code of such interop problems?
20:06 Tene I will do.
20:06 Tene NotFound: No.
20:07 allison NotFound: that's why the first step is testing
20:07 NotFound I don't find any in the examples I wrote. They were very simple, though.
20:08 allison Anyone who wants to do stress-testing of running multiple HLLs this week is welcome
20:08 allison very helpful
20:09 allison any more questions, comments, items to talk about?
20:09 allison alrighty, let's adjourn to #parrot
20:09 allison thanks everybody!
20:10 NotFound The example already in the repo is examples/pir/interlangs.pir
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