Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #parrotsketch, 2009-08-11

| Channels | #parrotsketch index | Today | | Search | Google Search | Plain-Text | summary

All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
03:03 japhb joined #parrotsketch
04:50 eternaleye joined #parrotsketch
05:01 eternaleye joined #parrotsketch
08:35 masak joined #parrotsketch
08:40 cotto joined #parrotsketch
09:43 cotto joined #parrotsketch
15:34 davidfetter joined #parrotsketch
15:45 rdice joined #parrotsketch
17:06 mikehh joined #parrotsketch
17:19 cotto # What I did:
17:19 cotto * repurposed the old profiling runcore in the pluggable_runcore branch
17:19 cotto - found out that nested runloops add significant complexity to the profiling runcore and postprocessing script
17:19 cotto - progress beyond that has not been of a tangible nature
17:19 cotto * removed deprecated branch_cs opcode
17:19 cotto # What I hope to do and how many tuits I expect to have:
17:19 cotto * figure out and implement something to deal with inner runloops
17:19 cotto # What could block my progress:
17:19 cotto * nothing external
17:19 cotto That's the end of my report.
17:25 whiteknight joined #parrotsketch
17:26 PacoLinux joined #parrotsketch
17:38 NotFound joined #parrotsketch
17:45 japhb * What I did:
17:45 japhb + Removed my one deprecated file as per release priority.
17:45 japhb + Lots of discussions and design proposals for Parrot module ecosystem ("Aviary")
17:45 japhb * What I hope to do:
17:45 japhb + Continue moving Aviary design along
17:45 japhb + Need to sleep occasionally
17:45 japhb * Comments:
17:45 japhb + For now Aviary is higher priority than OpenGL and HLL interop, but it would be nice to get back to them at some point.
17:45 japhb * EOR
17:46 whiteknight What I did:
17:46 whiteknight * Worked more on the lazy PObj allocator. Very close to having a working implementation for testing
17:46 whiteknight * Moved some stuff around to prepare for the PCT book.
17:46 whiteknight What I will do:
17:46 whiteknight * Helping out with TT #895
17:46 whiteknight * Working on the lazy allocator more, hoping to get it wrapped up and benchmarked
17:46 whiteknight * Still hoping to do IO stuff.
17:46 whiteknight What I am blocking on:
17:46 whiteknight * Not enough time.
18:00 NotFound What I did:
18:00 NotFound * Created branch auto_attrs to work on TT #895:
18:00 NotFound ** Changed the way of setting the attr size in thee vtables.
18:00 NotFound ** Changed a lot of pmc and dynpmc to auto attrs.
18:00 NotFound ** Built and tested partcl and rakudo with the branch.
18:00 NotFound * Throw a more descriptive exception when throwing something invalid.
18:00 NotFound * Minor fixes and cleanups.
18:00 NotFound What I will do:
18:00 NotFound * More work on the auto_attrs branch.
18:10 allison joined #parrotsketch
18:16 allison - Getting back into the swing of things now that I have time again. Catching up on tickets, half-way through a review of DEPRECATED.pod, catching up on the mailing list.
18:16 allison - Started a fresh branch for the PCC refactors ('pcc_arg_unify'), extracted and applied changes from the old branch. Working my way through the issues there, got it all the way through to the PGE build.
18:16 allison - On the branch, added a 'make corevm' target, so 'make coretest' doesn't have to build PGE/PCT/etc before running the core tests. Very helpful in debugging big refactors to find problems in the small test cases, before trying to throw the massive PCT codebase at it.
18:16 allison - Put out a call for nominations of directors for the Parrot Foundation 2009-2010. (If you're not a member and have thoughts, mention them to a current member. Membership for this election is just committers, we'll get the membership application review going after the first annual meeting.)
18:16 allison EOR
18:23 japhb allison: the most important nomination is the one you already made (pmichaud)
18:27 Util joined #parrotsketch
18:27 Util # Done:
18:27 Util * NULL
18:27 Util # Plan for next week:
18:27 Util * Resolve discrepancies in PDD13 vs actual Packfile {.c,PMC} implementations.
18:27 Util # Blockers:
18:27 Util * None.
18:27 Util .end
18:34 whiteknight Hello
18:34 Util hi
18:34 NotFound hola
18:34 l3t0 joined #parrotsketch
18:34 * spinclad waves
18:34 japhb o/
18:36 japhb allison or chromatic?
18:36 japhb fearless leaders?
18:36 allison no chromatic?
18:37 allison then let's get started
18:37 allison any missed reports?
18:37 allison any questions?
18:37 japhb q1q
18:37 allison q1q
18:37 allison japhb: go ahead
18:37 NotFound q1q
18:38 japhb Particle pointed out that it's time to put the Aviary proposal somewhere hack-friendly.  HE suggested either a POD committed to the repo, or to the wiki.
18:38 japhb Any preference?
18:39 NotFound wiki
18:39 allison wiki probably makes the most sense
18:39 japhb OK, will do.
18:39 particle pod-ify it when it settles down
18:39 allison wiki gives you a wider field of contributors
18:39 japhb allison: if you can comment on my email from last night, I can do some cleanup en passant
18:40 allison will do
18:40 japhb I'm done.
18:40 japhb (I mean, asking questions)
18:40 allison NotFound: your question?
18:41 NotFound TT #895, auto_attrs branch. Not sure when the branch can be merged. Now, after next release, a full deprecation cycle?
18:41 allison NotFound: depends on what kind of changes it has
18:42 allison do you have a diff that can be reviewed?
18:42 NotFound I've do my best to make sure that it doesn't affect foreign PMC, but the posibiity exists.
18:42 allison (trac makes one easily, if there haven't been any updates from trunk since the original branch)
18:43 NotFound No, I do several updates from trunk.
18:43 NotFound I've put a short report on the ticket.
18:43 whiteknight allison: we'll put together a diff
18:43 allison that makes it a little harder to review, but still possible
18:44 allison since the next release is next week, let's definitely hold off until after that
18:44 allison but, we can merge right after, as long as you're not changing behavior
18:44 allison that is, it's okay if we need to track down a few bugs
18:45 allison as long as the intention is to still keep supporting the same behavior
18:45 NotFound Behavior is maybe changed if someone is doing something really tricky to initialize or destroy his pmc.
18:45 allison (with an agreement that different behavior is a bug)
18:45 NotFound partcl and rakudo builds fine and pass tests.
18:45 allison if they're not respecting the standard API, we're allowed to break things
18:46 allison (just help them figure out how to use the standard API)
18:46 allison All that to say, yes, it's likely we can merge right after 1.5. I'd like to review it.
18:46 NotFound Ok.
18:47 NotFound The key changes are just a few lines, the most of the differences are just updating pmc to use it.
18:47 allison reasonable
18:48 allison any other questions?
18:48 NotFound I'll have to add some comments to clarify things, though.
18:49 allison NotFound: that's a good idea for future maintainability
18:49 allison my question is for japhb
18:49 japhb shoot ("bang")
18:50 allison You mentioned in your report that Aviary is a higher priority than HLL interop for you at the moment. Is there a list of remaining tasks for HLL interop you could hand off?
18:51 japhb allison: unfortunately, a) I haven't thought about it in a few weeks, so I'd have to go back and look, b) Much of my part in things was "try A B and C, found out B and C don't work, get Tene to work on B and research C further", in other words, iterative experimentation and refinement.
18:51 japhb That could be handed off, but not too many people are experimenting in that space right now.
18:52 allison Essentially a problem of creative test cases.
18:52 japhb allison: yup.
18:53 japhb And I need Tene or someone of equal knowledge.
18:53 allison Okay, great. If anyone's looking for something to do, that's a good one.
18:53 japhb definitely.
18:54 allison (Note that hll interop is on the roadmap for 1.6)
18:54 allison Roadmap review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/report/14
18:54 allison packfile pmcs?
18:55 Util I have not formally claimed any tickets on Packfile, but am working on bits of it. I saw that Austin was as well.
18:56 allison do you have a status update? is this task likely to be "complete" for 1.5?
18:56 allison or, is it more of an ongoing refactor project?
18:57 Util Not based on just my own work; AFAIK, you cannot currently build a .pbc from scratch with the Packfile PMCs.
18:57 Util Austin might be on pace for 1.5, or not, but I definitly am not.
18:58 allison okay, unlikely for 1.5, will check with Austin for likely date
18:58 allison pir profiling tools?
18:59 l3t0 allison: i am interested in that if someone can push me in the right direction
19:00 allison chromatic isn't here to report, unlikely for 1.5
19:00 NotFound Looks like none of the people working on that is here today.
19:00 allison l3t0: you're in Portland right? we should get you and chromatic together for a hacking session
19:01 allison standard seed libraries?
19:01 allison the current task is picking one for each month
19:01 allison any preferences for the 1.6 release?
19:02 NotFound zlib ?
19:02 Coke joined #parrotsketch
19:02 japhb allison: I think that kindof gates on Aviary (dis)agreements
19:02 l3t0 allison: he will probably be at the next pdx.pm meeting, i can ask him about it there
19:02 Coke ~~
19:03 japhb NotFound: I'm in favor of zlib personally, yes.
19:03 allison japhb: really, the whole question has been submerged into Aviary
19:03 japhb allison: ... and that's why Aviary rose to the top of my priority list.  :-)
19:04 allison since core libraries are pretty irrelevant once you can easily install non-core libraries
19:04 NotFound I'm definitely in favor of dropping postgresql from core and let it to the aviary
19:04 japhb ... except for whatever ones you need to do the installs.  But we're discussing that on the thread.
19:04 japhb NotFound: +1
19:05 allison japhb: aye will continue discussing that there
19:05 spinclad .oO{ meanwhile go ahead with zlib, working its interface with Aviary as it develops... }
19:05 allison NotFound: will put in a ticket for deprecating postgres from the core
19:06 japhb spinclad: that's an excellent idea.  I plan to be doing the same with OpenGL too.
19:06 allison aye, there's no reason the "seed" libraries have to be core
19:06 allison and the "core or non-core" debate can come later
19:06 japhb nod
19:06 allison most important is "get it working"
19:07 japhb vigorous nod
19:07 spinclad :)
19:07 allison will add a ticket zlib as seed library for 1.6 release. Do we have someone volunteering to implement it?
19:09 japhb I *might* be able to work on it or help with it, but I can't own that task right now.
19:09 allison alrighty then, I'll add the ticket anyway, noting that it's non-critical and not a release blocker
19:09 NotFound Me more or less the same.
19:10 japhb q1q
19:10 allison pluggable runloops?
19:10 allison chromatic not here, but task likely to be scheduled to 2.1 or beyond
19:10 allison prune c data structures?
19:11 allison the task there is currently to decide which data structures are candidates for pruning
19:11 allison that ends roadmap review
19:11 allison japhb: your question?
19:11 japhb You said you were mid-way through reviewing DEPRECATED.  What kind of review are you doing?
19:13 allison Coke mentioned that there were a number of DEPRECATED items blocking on answers. I'm going through and making sure they have answers.
19:13 allison Also working on some of them, like the runtime/parrot search path deprecation.
19:13 japhb OK, gotcha.
19:15 allison Any final questions or comments before we close?
19:15 Coke hurm.
19:16 Coke nah.
19:16 PacoLinux left #parrotsketch
19:16 allison Coke: there's always #parrot
19:16 allison thanks all, tty next week!
19:16 Util left #parrotsketch
19:16 japhb o/
19:16 Coke left #parrotsketch
19:16 NotFound left #parrotsketch
19:53 allison joined #parrotsketch
20:53 Whiteknight joined #parrotsketch
22:10 PacoLinux joined #parrotsketch
22:11 PacoLinux left #parrotsketch

| Channels | #parrotsketch index | Today | | Search | Google Search | Plain-Text | summary