Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #parrotsketch, 2009-09-15

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
05:02 ilbot2 joined #parrotsketch
05:02 Topic for #parrotsketchis now Vision for 2.0: Production Users | Priority for 1.6: Merge Branches | Priority for this week: Fix partcl segfaults & PANICs, increase test coverage on Namespace and Array PMCs, prune a struct | https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/w​iki/ProposedParrotsketchProtocol | Note: This channel is only for our Tuesday status meetings; you probably want #parrot instead.
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08:14 allison - Reviewed objects PDD, and created a short list of remaining tasks. This closes the roadmap milestone for pdd15.
08:14 allison - Reviewed multiple inputs on the JIT and put together a plan of attack.
08:14 allison - Talked with Whiteknight and chromatic about exception handlers and inferior runloops.
08:14 allison - Unblocked infinite looping test failures on the pcc branch, started on named parameter failures. Plan to make a fresh branch for that work from trunk once the old JIT is disabled in trunk (may wait for the old code removal too).
08:14 allison - Preparing for talks at the JVM Languages Summit, and Bay Area Python user group.
08:14 allison - Unfortunately I'll miss #parrotsketch this week, will be in the air over Canada.
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13:58 particle this week: released parrot 1.6.0.  thanks to all who helped this go so smoothly.
13:58 particle next week: release rakudo #21.
13:58 particle no blockers atm.
14:47 Whiteknight What I did last week:
14:47 Whiteknight * More research on JIT, reading LLVM Documentation, etc
14:47 Whiteknight * Tested building Parrot with Clang. Doesn't currently build with GMP, need to track down the reason for that
14:47 Whiteknight * Looked into the Inferior Runloops problem, talked about solutions with NotFound++, Allison++, chromatic++
14:47 Whiteknight * Lots of testing for the release, but no real fixing/hacking
14:47 Whiteknight * Wrote up a Y-Combinator implementation in PIR, very useful for testing/learning about the newclosure opcode (which is not well documented)
14:48 Whiteknight * Busy with $real_life mostly
14:48 Whiteknight What I plan this week:
14:48 Whiteknight * Kill JIT. Kill it dead.
14:48 Whiteknight * Kill PIC. Kill it with fire.
14:48 Whiteknight What I am blocking on:
14:48 Whiteknight * Family issues in $real_life
15:30 cotto # What I did:
15:30 cotto * got a nice optimization to the profiling runcore
15:30 cotto - more than 4x faster for oofib.pir, improvement will be proportional to the number of context switches
15:30 cotto - chromatic++ for giving me the functions to work with
15:30 cotto # What I hope to do and how many tuits I expect to have:
15:30 cotto * get started on testing the profiling runcore
15:30 cotto * apply an optimization to pprof2cg suggested by bacek++
15:30 cotto * start resurrecting ops_pct for the coming jitpocalypse
15:30 cotto * employment has somehow lessened my tuit supply
15:30 cotto # What could block my progress:
15:30 cotto * rl
15:30 cotto eor
16:29 mikehh What I did:
16:29 mikehh * building and full testing parrot on amd64 and i386
16:29 mikehh * fixing codetest/manifest_tests failures
16:29 mikehh * testing language builds mainly rakudo and partcl
16:29 mikehh What I want to do:
16:29 mikehh * continue testing
16:29 mikehh * add some more tests
16:29 mikehh .eor
16:45 darbelo joined #parrotsketch
16:45 darbelo # What I did:
16:45 darbelo * Got a commit bit. Broke the build.
16:45 darbelo * Removed some broken code in pmc_freeze.
16:45 darbelo * Did a minor cleanup there, too.
16:46 darbelo * Removed some more strstart uses.
16:46 darbelo #What I want to do:
16:46 darbelo * Make pmc_freeze use the string API.
16:46 darbelo * Remove strstart for good, eventually.
16:46 darbelo eor
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17:34 pmichaud What I did:
17:34 pmichaud * Had lots of non-Parrot/Rakudo/Perl6 tasks this week
17:34 pmichaud * Rakudo now passing 15,500 tests, an increase of 3,131 tests since
17:34 pmichaud the 2009-08 release
17:34 pmichaud * Re-calculated size of spectest suite (using more accurate algorithms
17:34 pmichaud from moritz++) for 2009-08 release to present
17:34 pmichaud * Enabled HLL mapping for Float->Num in Rakudo.
17:34 pmichaud ** This fixes a number of tests, and only shows a slight speed penalty
17:34 pmichaud in spectests on my platform.
17:34 pmichaud ** Other platforms may be seeing speed issues from this change, reports welcome.
17:34 pmichaud What I'm doing this week:
17:34 pmichaud * More of what I had planned for this last week
17:34 pmichaud * Writing up more documentation for PCT, NQP, Rakudo Star planning
17:34 pmichaud * Adding contextual variables to NQP
17:34 pmichaud * Working on many other PGE/NQP updates
17:34 pmichaud * Designing protoregexes for PGE
17:34 pmichaud * Have $otherjob tasks this week so won't get well into it until Saturday
17:35 pmichaud What I'm blocking on:
17:35 pmichaud * Insufficient usable hours per solar day
17:35 pmichaud * $otherjob
17:35 pmichaud EOR
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18:05 NotFound What I did:
18:05 NotFound * Helped and being helped for diagnosing bugs on irc.
18:05 NotFound * Fixing, fixing, fixing...
18:05 NotFound * Applied patch from einstein++ that fixes a nasty GC bug
18:05 NotFound * Verified that after an NCI fix MySql.pir works again
18:05 NotFound * Updated xlibtest.p6 and mysqltest.p6 to current rakudo syntax
18:05 NotFound * Fixed MySql pir for usage from rakudo, unfortunately not in time for 1.6.0
18:05 NotFound * Applied some other patches
18:05 NotFound What I will do:
18:05 NotFound * No fixed plan ATM. Maybe improve MySql.pir
18:05 NotFound EOR
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18:24 Util # Done:
18:24 Util * Upgraded to Mac OS 10.5, enabling GCC4, GitX, Valgrind, and fixing my long-broken ICU.
18:24 Util * Verified as now working: Packfile PMCs can roundtrip a basic hello.pbc (TT#504).
18:24 Util # Plan for next week:
18:24 Util * Make SVN properties do-the-right-thing for `git-svn` users (TT#994).
18:24 Util # Blockers:
18:24 Util * None; more tuits available this week.
18:24 Util .end
18:31 Whiteknight Hello
18:31 darbelo Hola
18:32 chromatic joined #parrotsketch
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18:32 mikehh hello
18:32 Util Hello
18:32 particle io
18:33 chromatic Hello.
18:33 NotFound hola
18:33 Whiteknight allison isn't here today
18:33 * particle silently sings "oh, canada"
18:34 chromatic Let's review last week's tasks.
18:34 chromatic How did we do fixing segfaults, panics, and odd bugs?
18:34 Whiteknight I think we nailed it
18:34 NotFound Some were fixed, some workarounded
18:34 Whiteknight and by "we" I mean not me
18:34 darbelo Coke looked pleased on his mail.
18:35 Whiteknight ..and I've never seen Coke look "pleased"
18:35 chromatic How confident are people?
18:35 Whiteknight very
18:35 mikehh looks good
18:35 NotFound I thinke now we are better than in 1.5.0 and before
18:36 chromatic We still have to design and implement our way out of exception handlers and inferior runloops, but the bugs I saw NotFound et al patch were nasty, subtle ones.
18:36 cotto_work hi
18:36 chromatic How did PMC testing improvements go?
18:37 NotFound Maybe we must add some functions that doesn't require casting to PObj, to better detect such errors
18:37 Whiteknight I didn't do anything for testing this week
18:38 chromatic Where's duk3leto, he should know.
18:38 NotFound I think FPA improved again, but doesn't verified it.
18:39 chromatic I'm sure we didn't get any struct pruning done.  I spent most of my time diagnosing and fixing weird bugs.
18:39 Whiteknight ...and there were lots of weird bugs!
18:39 particle and that was more important.
18:39 chromatic Yes.
18:39 mikehh the coverage on the tests we targetted improved
18:39 pmichaud agreed... this week saw lots of good work
18:39 particle thanks to everyone for the good work this month, the release was extremely easy, smooth, and boring.
18:40 chromatic particle, would you do the honors of migrating 1.6 roadmap items?
18:40 particle my only frustration was how long it took to do the press.
18:40 NotFound Forgot to mention in report: added an attribute on Continuation to help detect reuse errors
18:40 particle chromatic: i'm not sure what belongs where. were any completed, or do they all move forward?
18:40 chromatic I closed the one I know we completed (review Objects PDD).
18:40 pmichaud mine were not completed
18:41 chromatic I was going to ask.
18:41 Util I have info to report on the Packfile PMC milestone
18:41 Util My only remaining issue with Packfile PMCs is that you cannot use them to build a .pbc from scratch. (which is needed to start making actual use of them in refactoring existing Parrot tools)
18:41 Util In TT#504 (comment 17), bacek says that this is not due to any shortcoming of Packfile PMC; supporting code is missing from elsewhere in Parrot.
18:41 Util I say, we call it "landed", and fork off a non-milestone ticket for the "can't build from scratch" issue.
18:42 chromatic +1
18:42 Whiteknight +1
18:43 chromatic Let's talk about 1.7 milestones.
18:43 chromatic vtable swap -- I care about this one a lot less now with the Key refactor.  I think we can deprioritize it.
18:43 particle util, care to close out tt#504 then?
18:43 Util particle: I will.
18:44 chromatic duk3leto, are you here?  If so, how does the debugger documentation look?
18:45 cotto_work q1q
18:45 chromatic The other priority is a bytecode testing framework.  Anyone interested in that?
18:46 chromatic Okay, let's leave that one as is.
18:47 chromatic What should we work on this week, besides removing the JIT?
18:47 mikehh I'll have a look at it - but don't guarentee anything
18:48 darbelo Increase test coverage for something else?
18:48 chromatic How is the coverage for Array now?
18:49 Whiteknight I had a question about Array: what is it's purpose?
18:49 mikehh much better - on the fixed stuff anyway
18:49 Whiteknight is it substantially different then RPA?
18:50 chromatic It's an optimization, but not a big one.
18:50 duk3leto 'ello. sorry I'm late.
18:50 duk3leto chromatic: The debugger docs still need improvement.
18:51 chromatic Okay, it's a milestone for 1.7 duk3leto.
18:51 Whiteknight I would suggest that if RPA and Array are the same that we only need one or the other
18:51 Whiteknight at least, the same in terms of functionality
18:52 pmichaud they aren't the same
18:52 Whiteknight okay, then that answers my question
18:52 pmichaud at least, there's an inheritance involved
18:52 pmichaud Array -> FPA -> RPA
18:52 cotto_work pmichaud, nothing inherits from Array.
18:52 particle FPA inherits?
18:53 particle Array is on its own
18:53 Whiteknight pmichaud: so is there some kind of capability that RPA has that Array doesnt?
18:53 pmichaud oops
18:53 NotFound pmclass PackedArray extends Array {
18:53 particle iirc it stores native int/float/pmc, not boxed
18:53 pmichaud you're right, I got my inheritance mixed up (or it changed)
18:53 NotFound That's in docs/vtables.pod
18:53 particle it never changed
18:54 particle Array and PackedArray are experimental as far as i'm concerned, they're not widely used and not well maintained
18:54 NotFound Oh, is just an example
18:54 chromatic Last week's suggesting for testing was Exception and MultiSub.
18:55 Whiteknight I like those
18:55 duk3leto chromatic: i think we should stay with those for this week
18:55 cotto_work PackedArray is currently fictional or historical
18:55 pmichaud I think I'm fine with deprecating Array
18:55 Whiteknight we're going to want lots of tests for Exceptions if we're going to be refactoring that system
18:56 NotFound Is just an example, we can change it to MyOwnArray to avoid confusions
18:56 chromatic Other priorities for this week?
18:57 mikehh we need to merge any branches in the next couple of weeks
18:57 Whiteknight I don't think there are many of those this month
18:57 particle JIT
18:57 NotFound If we are going to change the way we handle it, write more tests in the current way is a loss of time
18:57 chromatic Only the PCC branch sounds outstanding.
18:57 mikehh leave the last two weeks to stabalize
18:58 duk3leto this is a good time to do deprecations. It gives rakudo lots of time to deal with them.
18:58 particle ripping out jit should happen this week, i say
18:58 particle it unblocks future development
18:58 duk3leto particle: if not today
18:58 darbelo Does anyone know the status of jrtayloriv's gc-refactor branch?
18:58 duk3leto who wants the pleasure to rip out JIT? is there a branch?
18:59 particle there is a branch
18:59 pmichaud kill_jit
18:59 particle parrot: r41277 | darbelo++ | branches/kill_jit:
18:59 Whiteknight gc-refactor is good and probably ready to merge (thanks for the reminder)
18:59 Whiteknight although jrtayloriv is without net access for a while
19:00 chromatic Okay.  Question time.
19:00 chromatic cotto?
19:00 darbelo q1q
19:00 cotto_work Is it our long-term plan to require that any custom aggregate PMC have its own dedicated iterator and iterator key PMCs?
19:00 pmichaud (if anyone is looking for a ticket to work on, TT #389 is a big issue for Rakudo)
19:01 cotto_work i.e. Hash, HashIterator, HashIterator, HashIteratorKey
19:03 * particle doesn't see any answers. ask on the mailing list.
19:03 cotto_work will do
19:03 chromatic darbelo?
19:03 cotto_work eoq
19:03 * cotto_work looks forward to another warnocking
19:04 darbelo Is there any policy on strct member removal when they affect languages?
19:05 NotFound I think the policy must be: don't use struct members
19:06 chromatic The deprecation policy excludes them from backwards compatibility support.
19:07 darbelo ok.
19:07 darbelo eoq
19:08 chromatic Other questions?
19:09 pmichaud a reminder that https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/report/16  has a list of current HLL issues that need parrot help
19:10 chromatic Thanks everyone; good work for 1.6.
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