Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #parrotsketch, 2010-03-16

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:10 eternaleye joined #parrotsketch
00:57 cotto joined #parrotsketch
01:37 cotto joined #parrotsketch
05:12 rin1024 joined #parrotsketch
13:18 plobsing joined #parrotsketch
13:24 plobsing What I Did:
13:25 plobsing * worked on TT1015 branch (wrong approach, but learned)
13:25 plobsing * pushed for shallow clone semantics for clone vtable
13:25 plobsing * created a patch for PDD17
13:25 plobsing * saw zavolaj, got inspired
13:25 plobsing * started bikeshedding^W redesigning NCI signatures
13:25 plobsing What I Plan:
13:25 plobsing * put the proposal for NCI signatures to the list
13:25 plobsing * create proposals to improve pain points in NCI (UnManagedStruct, h2inc)
13:25 plobsing * appropriate deprecations so NCI changes can move ahead
13:25 plobsing * if I can get approval, deprecate deep cloning behaviour in any and all core PMCs
13:25 plobsing * define a small API for frame builders
13:25 plobsing EOR
16:01 eggyknap joined #parrotsketch
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16:35 Coke joined #parrotsketch
16:36 Coke Wiki:
16:36 Coke - wikify branch_status.pl for http://trac.parrot.org/parr​ot/wiki/BranchDescriptions
16:36 Coke - added faces.pl for http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/wiki/ParrotFaces (is your face not there? add your email and pic to gravatar.com)
16:36 Coke - faces.pl will warn about duplicate emails in CREDITS (we have one)
16:36 Coke Build:
16:36 Coke - Remove or mark some -Wunused code.
16:36 Coke - reduce 'corevm'/'coretest' back down.
16:36 Coke Trac:
16:36 Coke - closed 5 tickets.
16:36 Coke - 657 Active Tickets left
16:36 Coke - 2.2 has 22 active tickets (missed)
16:36 Coke .
18:13 NotFound joined #parrotsketch
18:23 NotFound 2010-mar-16
18:23 NotFound What I did:
18:23 NotFound - parrot
18:23 NotFound * Just some testing.
18:23 NotFound - Winxed
18:23 NotFound * Implemented some pir directives and other minor improvements in pirado.
18:23 NotFound What I will do:
18:23 NotFound No plan
18:23 NotFound EOR
18:31 japhb DONE:
18:32 japhb * Metadata updates, c/o fperrad++
18:32 japhb * Add setup.nqp support to Plumage
18:32 japhb * Answered lots of Plumage questions in #parrot and #perl6
18:32 japhb BLOCKED:
18:33 japhb * Convert Plumage build system to distutils; blocked on distutils feature needed from fperrad
18:33 japhb * NEXT:
18:33 japhb * More Plumage work
18:33 japhb * Help with HLL interop as requested
18:34 japhb EOR
18:47 whiteknight joined #parrotsketch
18:56 whiteknight WHAT I DID
18:56 whiteknight * Twiddled around in the PCC branch. Mostly following progress, didn't make any substantive changes myself
18:56 whiteknight * Fixed installation on kakapo, and added some new test methods
18:56 whiteknight * Updated the Parrot-Linear-Algebra test suite to use Kakapo and its unit test functionality. Test coverage is dramatically increased, and inherited test classes mean we can write once and test multiple types immediately.
18:56 whiteknight * Fixed some bugs in PLA, added some functionality, cleaned up code, and trying to standardize on common behaviors.
18:56 whiteknight * Some exploratory hacking and a few commits on the fix_hll_mmd and tt389_fix branches, though didn't get either workable before the release.
18:56 whiteknight WHAT I WILL DO
18:56 whiteknight * PLA and PDS are going to track the 2.2 release, the 2.3 release, and then only supported releases (as opposed to tracking trunk).
18:56 whiteknight * PDS will be updated to use Kakapo for it's test suite.
18:56 whiteknight * Will be adding an iterator type to PLA to iterate over elements in a matrix from PIR
18:56 whiteknight * Continue to follow the pcc_hackathon_6Mar10, fix_hll_mmd, and tt389_fix branches. Hope to get them all working, tested, and merged soon.
18:56 whiteknight WHAT I AM BLOCKING ON
18:56 whiteknight * Nothing
18:56 whiteknight I will not be at the #ps meeting today.
18:56 allison joined #parrotsketch
19:04 allison Last week:
19:04 allison - Worked on little language (camle) using nqp-rx.
19:04 allison - Swapped my parrot-dev email so it goes straight to my inbox, seems to make it easier to be responsive.
19:04 allison - Caught up on mailing list discussions.
19:04 allison Blockers:
19:04 allison - Spent the weekend buried in coursework.
19:04 allison - Traveling this week.
19:04 allison Next week:
19:04 allison - Fix remaining failures in PCC branch, prepare for merge now that 2.2 is out.
19:04 allison EOR
19:04 allison (and may be a bit late for the meeting)
19:17 Coke win 2
19:18 spinclad lose 1
19:45 cotto_work #did:
19:45 cotto_work * kicked out the 2.2.0 release with numerous typos
19:45 cotto_work * removed cpu_ret
19:45 cotto_work * some opsc hacking
19:45 cotto_work #will do:
19:45 cotto_work #closed TTs:
19:45 cotto_work #eor
19:51 Tene did: lots of talking, no actual work at all.
19:51 Tene KTHXBAI
20:01 allison joined #parrotsketch
20:11 allison_ joined #parrotsketch
20:20 chromatic joined #parrotsketch
20:26 bacek joined #parrotsketch
20:27 bacek Done:
20:27 bacek - Update ops_pct branch to properly handle new Grammar by cotto++
20:27 bacek - Some work on pcc_hackatron branch
20:27 bacek Todo:
20:27 bacek - Implement more runcores in ops_pct.
20:30 Util # Done:
20:30 Util * Had lunch with ash (John Harrison), discussing his NQ-NQP project, and GSOC prospects.
20:30 Util * Turned up a bit-rotted chunk of debugging code. TT to follow.
20:30 Util # Plan to do:
20:30 Util * Help with TT#1489.
20:30 Util .end
20:30 chromatic I worked on the pcc_hackathon branch and the TT #389 branch.
20:31 chromatic I did a few optimizations.
20:31 chromatic I plan to do a few more optimizations related to constant STRING handling (hopefully for 2.3) and TT #389.
20:31 chromatic next?
20:32 cotto_work helo
20:32 allison hi
20:32 Util Hello
20:32 bacek aloha
20:32 japhb o/
20:33 chromatic hello
20:33 chromatic Let's review last week.
20:33 chromatic How are we doing for HLL bugs?
20:33 NotFound hola
20:34 chromatic TT #389 should get fixed very soon.  whiteknight and I are close.
20:34 Util Rakudo is not building for me on Win32. TT1489.
20:34 Util On feather, too
20:36 chromatic bacek and I looked into that.  We need to figure out a different STRING compacting strategy.
20:36 whiteknight or "any" string compacting strategy
20:37 chromatic It should be reasonably easy to switch over to using sized pools.
20:37 chromatic That might even be faster.
20:38 Util Is this achievable before the next Rakudo release?
20:38 chromatic It's possible, I suppose.
20:38 chromatic Any volunteers to look at it?
20:39 chromatic Sounds like a no.
20:40 chromatic Other HLL bugs?
20:41 chromatic Bueller?
20:41 whiteknight Bueller?
20:42 whiteknight no other HLL bugs that are pressing
20:42 chromatic How about the corevm target?  How's that work going?
20:42 whiteknight none that I can think of off the top of my head
20:42 allison_ joined #parrotsketch
20:42 whiteknight that target is fixed, I don't think there has been any testing
20:42 whiteknight (not that we expected it)
20:42 chromatic The PCC Hackathon branch should be able to land almost any time.
20:43 bacek chromatic, op return_info is broken. TT#1511
20:43 chromatic ~almost~ any time
20:44 bacek :)
20:44 chromatic Let's move on to new priorities for the coming week.
20:44 chromatic We have a month before 2.3, which is a Big Important Release for Rakudo Star.
20:45 chromatic Rakudo needs 1) bugfixes and 2) performance.
20:45 chromatic Suggestions?
20:45 whiteknight dual focus on both would be nice
20:45 Coke do we care about compilation time?
20:45 whiteknight though nebulous
20:45 Coke (the build is SLOOOOOOOOW)
20:46 whiteknight slow build is fine. End users don't see that
20:46 cotto_work I'll need to go afk in a few minutes, but a roadmap review of the 2.2 items should happen at some point ( http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/que​ry?group=status&milestone=2.2 )
20:47 particle sure would have been nice to have rakudo building with parrot 2.2 before it was released...
20:47 chromatic Does it not build, or do you mean the memory use problem?
20:47 Util I suspect that a great deal of the slowness is the same memory issue halting the build on other platforms.
20:47 particle it doesn't build for me with msvc on windows
20:47 particle i have 4GB ram
20:48 Coke particle: ISTR it was broken with 2.1
20:48 particle you recall correctly.
20:49 chromatic Suppose I tell someone exactly how to fix it.
20:49 Coke so, fixing the build for rakudo should be a priority, before speed.
20:49 chromatic Who will fix it?
20:49 Coke ... if you know what needs to be done, I can be a code monkey.
20:49 whiteknight I can look into it
20:49 particle i have some tuits this weekend
20:50 chromatic The easy fix is using fixed_size_pools for the actual STRING storage (not the headers, but their contents).
20:50 chromatic The harder fix is using multiple pools so they don't always grow.
20:50 Coke chromatic: is that the memory issue or the winders build issue?
20:51 chromatic Should be both.
20:51 chromatic I think that's the same issue.
20:51 particle rakudo builds against parrot releases. can we release 2.2.1 when fixed?
20:52 cotto_work If it's figured out tonight, I can do the 2.2.1 release.
20:52 cotto_work or tomorrow night
20:53 chromatic Other priorities for 2.3?
20:53 chromatic I'd like to get the STRING constant mess figured out, so I can write up a task list for that this week.
20:53 Coke as long as we can deal with the rakudo-documentation issues of "which release are we using?" that we had after 2.1.1.
20:54 allison_ joined #parrotsketch
20:54 chromatic Any hopes of the sweep-free GC for 2.3?
20:55 whiteknight if you and I have time to throw it together
20:55 bacek chromatic, unlikely...
20:55 Coke TT #1427 needs to go in DEP.pod if we're going to rip it out.
20:55 whiteknight I can focus in that direction if nothing else is more important
20:55 chromatic My guess is HLL bugs are more important.
20:55 chromatic If we can fix freeze/thaw/clone, Rakudo might get more benefit.
20:56 whiteknight freeze/thaw might be nearly done. clone is a bigger problem. plobsing has been posting mails to the list
20:56 particle make sure to ask jnthn about rakudo's needs, he's in change while pmichaud is away
20:56 chromatic Defaulting to shallow clones should help a lot.
20:57 whiteknight but we have to make sure that doesn't break anything
20:58 chromatic particle, can you talk to jnthn?  Do you have time to liase?
20:58 particle not today, but yes.
20:58 particle i can do that tomorrow.
20:58 chromatic liaise, sorry... missing i
20:58 chromatic I'll set the topic in #parrot.
20:58 chromatic Question time!
20:59 Coke Note:
20:59 Coke I opened a ticket with osu about the caching issues I was having with www.parrot.org and trac.parrot.org - everything seems fixed now; if you were having odd caching issues when editing pages, should be resolved.
21:00 * whiteknight has to leave. Later
21:01 chromatic Other comments or questions?
21:03 allison I have started updating the  online roadmap, would we like to review the 2.3 goals quickly?
21:03 allison and see that they match what we really intend for 2.3?
21:05 bacek chromatic, I can hack strings to use Fixed_Size_Pools in few hours. May be over weekend.
21:06 chromatic Yes, let's review.
21:06 chromatic bacek, whiteknight said he'd poke at them later today too.
21:07 allison 1) [DEPRECATED] RetContinuation PMC
21:07 allison is that in the plans for 2.3?
21:07 allison or move out?
21:08 chromatic Not a priority from my perspective.
21:08 allison me neither
21:08 allison move out
21:08 allison 2) GC, currently listed as "generational copying/compacting, ordered destruction"
21:08 allison seems far too ambitious
21:08 chromatic Sweep free is a possibility.
21:09 Coke (retcon) if it's in the plans /ever/ we should add it to the DEP.pod.
21:09 chromatic We'd have to get it ready to land in about two weeks though.
21:09 Coke (otherwise we're stuck until 2.6)
21:09 allison Coke: I think it's already in DEP.pod, but could you check?
21:09 Coke it's not.
21:09 Coke not by number, anyway.
21:10 allison Coke: okay, ticket is #1427
21:11 allison chromatic: is sweep-free worthy of a priority this month?
21:11 Coke ... yes, I know. Ok, I'll add it later today.
21:12 chromatic I'm not making sweep free a personal priority.  I think we'll get more benefit from improved constant STRINGs.
21:12 chromatic I'm sure we can land that improvement, as well as more PCC optimizations.
21:13 allison will leave it in for 2.3, move the other GC tasks later
21:13 allison 3) subroutine leave semantics/exit handlers
21:13 allison this is a priority for Rakudo, as I understand it
21:13 chromatic Tene was working on that.
21:14 Tene Yeah, I was.
21:14 Tene Life's very hectic for me right now, though. :(
21:15 allison Tene: better to hand it off or move it out?
21:15 Tene Where does that compare with HLL interop, as a rakudo priority?
21:15 Tene allison: hand it off.
21:15 chromatic As I understand it, it's higher than interop.
21:15 * Tene nods.
21:15 allison we can check with patrick/jonathan to be sure
21:15 Tene allison: if I do end up doing any work on it, I'll make a branch and put it there, but don't count on it.
21:16 allison Tene: sounds good
21:16 allison any volunteers to work with Tene?
21:17 chromatic If the work's documented, I can poke at it some in my copious free time.
21:17 snl joined #parrotsketch
21:17 allison we can talk on list and see what's left
21:17 allison might be a weekend hackathon subject
21:18 allison 4) Core Libraries/Plumage
21:18 allison seems there's been good progress there
21:18 japhb I'm back working on Plumage, I'm stuck on something I need from fperrad, but:
21:19 allison is it ready for a Parrot release?
21:19 japhb I'm looking for any "I'd really like this by 2.3" features, so I can prioritize my work
21:19 japhb I don't think it's ready to ship with Parrot right now, but I'd like to try for 2.3.  About a 50% chance of success there.
21:20 japhb So anybody with any requests, ping me in #parrot or send me an email.
21:20 allison sounds like a good goal
21:20 allison and not a high risk if we push it out
21:20 japhb exactly
21:20 allison that's all for 2.3
21:21 chromatic Besides the inevitable bug fixes and performance improvements.
21:22 allison indeed
21:22 allison do we want to have a pre-release hackathon
21:22 allison bug fixes and testing?
21:22 chromatic Definitely.
21:26 chromatic Other comments or questions?
21:35 chromatic Let's call this done then.
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