Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #parrotsketch, 2010-04-27

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Time Nick Message
10:08 bakkdoor joined #parrotsketch
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16:28 cotto_work joined #parrotsketch
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17:07 allison joined #parrotsketch
18:02 NotFound joined #parrotsketch
18:14 NotFound What I did:
18:14 NotFound -parrot
18:14 NotFound * Several fixes and workarounds.
18:14 NotFound * Minor optimizations in Hash and Lexinfo PMC and in PackFile debug
18:14 NotFound and annotations structures.
18:14 NotFound * Worked in some old tickets.
18:14 NotFound * Code cleaning.
18:14 NotFound * Improved embed example "cotorra".
18:14 NotFound -winxed
18:14 NotFound * New predef functon "cry" ("say" to stderr).
18:14 NotFound * Fix and update several examples.
18:14 NotFound * Set stage 2 as default.
18:14 NotFound What I will do:
18:14 NotFound No plan
18:14 NotFound EOR
18:28 Coke parrot - done:
18:28 Coke - remove old json compiler.
18:28 Coke - added tickets for most missing them in DEPRECATED.pod; added
18:28 Coke experimental tag for gziphandle PMC - Want it, vote for it.
18:28 Coke - fixup some makefile deps
18:29 Coke - trac spam cleanup
18:29 Coke - pinged SFINK to del old parrot versions from CPAN - Those are gone, but
18:29 Coke It seems that every
18:29 Coke time we clean up some MORE COME BACK. We now have ones on the list from
18:29 Coke JEFF GOFF. (Probably because they're all unauthorized.)
18:29 Coke .
18:36 bubaflub joined #parrotsketch
18:49 Coke Q1Q!
18:52 japhb DONE:
18:52 japhb * First Plumage grant proposal submitted to Allison
18:52 japhb * Outline of future proposal sketched out
18:52 japhb NEXT:
18:53 japhb * Wait for magic funding unicorn :-)
18:53 japhb EOR
18:59 mikehh What I did since my last report:
18:59 mikehh * testing on Ubuntu 10.04 (beta now RC updated at least twice daily) amd64 and i386 also built and using Perl 5.12.0
18:59 mikehh * building and testing parrot on amd64/i386, with gcc/g++
18:59 mikehh * branch testing
18:59 mikehh * quite a few fixes
18:59 mikehh * working on replacing in_place string ops in examples_tests, there are a whole bunch there - done about 10 files so far
18:59 mikehh What I intend to do in the next week:
18:59 mikehh * testing and fixing
18:59 mikehh * continue replacing in_place string ops in examples_tests
18:59 mikehh * although I am not at all sure if I can fix examples/pir/quine_ord.pir
18:59 mikehh * I am going to document what I needed to get parrot building and testing with new install of Ubuntu 10.04 and Perl 5.12.0
18:59 mikehh .eor
19:01 Coke QQ#2
19:18 smash joined #parrotsketch
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19:19 cotto_work #did:
19:20 cotto_work * merged runcore_purge, getting rid of the underused cgoto, cgp and switch runcores
19:20 cotto_work - libparrot.so is 1.2M smaller on my system, ymmv
19:20 cotto_work - sent the Rakudo hackers a patch to remove the switch ops from the build (committed)
19:20 cotto_work * "fixed" t/op/io.t
19:21 cotto_work - fix wfm but fails for mikehh++ on Ubuntu 10.04 RC
19:21 cotto_work * worked a bit on TT #888 which broke the build on systems with non-ascii temp dirs
19:21 cotto_work - gave jimmyz++ a patch that fixes his build (though with some test failures)
19:21 cotto_work - will apply a modified version tonight after feedback from chromatic++
19:21 cotto_work #will do:
19:21 cotto_work * PIR line number test based on chromatic++'s work on pbc_dump
19:21 cotto_work #closed TTs:
19:21 cotto_work * #1563 (runcore deprecation)
19:22 cotto_work #eor
19:25 chromatic joined #parrotsketch
19:26 chromatic I worked on the compact_strings_revamp branch.  It's ready to merge, and it's faster than trunk.
19:26 chromatic I also worked on line numbers.  I have a lot of confidence in simple PIR line numbering now.
19:26 chromatic However, I think .include may make things go weird, so test cases are very welcome there.
19:26 chromatic I also profiled PBC loading and suggested what may be a big optimization to STRING storage for Sub PMCs.
19:27 chromatic Otherwise, I'd like to profile Rakudo but they need to make some changes related to TT #389 before Rakudo will build with trunk.
19:27 chromatic If we can offer a 10% speed improvement (and we can), they might jump on that.
19:27 chromatic I may miss today's meeting.
19:28 cotto_work q1q
19:53 darbelo joined #parrotsketch
20:01 darbelo DONE:
20:01 darbelo Obliterated deprecated PMCs.
20:01 darbelo Updated the include_dynpmc_makefile branch, it works well but still needs some deps filled out.    Did some more string - io decoupling.    Made some progress on making strings (and buffers) smaller. Not ready for prime time yet.    Got accepted into GSoC.  TODO:    Get started on GSoC coding.  EOR.
20:02 darbelo xterm paste: FAIL
20:02 darbelo Let's try that again.
20:02 darbelo DONE: Obliterated deprecated PMCs. Updated the include_dynpmc_makefile branch, it works well but still needs some deps filled out. Did some more string - io decoupling. Made some progress on making strings (and buffers) smaller. Not ready for prime time yet. Got accepted into GSoC.
20:03 darbelo TODO: Get started on GSoC coding.
20:03 darbelo ARGH
20:03 darbelo DONE:
20:03 darbelo Obliterated deprecated PMCs.
20:03 darbelo Updated the include_dynpmc_makefile branch, it works well but still needs some deps filled out.
20:03 darbelo Did some more string - io decoupling.
20:03 darbelo Did some more string - io decoupling.
20:03 darbelo Made some progress on making strings (and buffers) smaller. Not ready for prime time yet.
20:03 eternaleye joined #parrotsketch
20:03 darbelo Got accepted into GSoC.
20:03 darbelo TODO:
20:03 darbelo Get started on GSoC coding.
20:03 darbelo EOR.
20:06 particle EOARGH.
20:07 bubaflub DONE:
20:07 bubaflub Got accepted into GSoC with RTEMS
20:07 bubaflub TODO:
20:07 bubaflub Get crackin' on GSoC
20:07 bubaflub BLOCKERS:
20:08 bubaflub Life, Finals
20:08 bubaflub EOR.
20:08 Util # Done:
20:08 Util * Tested branch Compact_pool_revamp; looks good on Darwin
20:08 Util # Plan to do:
20:08 Util * Change docs that mention `languages/PIR` (the PCT-based PIR compiler) to point to its new GitHub repo.
20:08 Util # Blockers:
20:08 Util * $WORK
20:08 Util .end
20:10 cotto_work addednum: *made contact with my gsoc student (khairul).  He won't be free until the 5th due to classes.
20:10 cotto_work eoa
20:21 allison What I did:
20:21 allison - Built final packages for Debian/Ubuntu for 2.3 release.
20:21 allison - Worked on the task list for GC refactors (have updated http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/wiki/GCTasklist, comments welcome).
20:21 allison - Read a good chunk of http://www.cs.rice.edu/~javaplt/311/Readings/wilson92uniprocessor.pdf
20:21 allison - Experimented with HLLs that compile to pure assembly (no runtime) and bypassing NQP, for a lightweight language.
20:21 allison What I will do:
20:21 allison - Continue planning GC refactors.
20:21 allison - Start knocking off GC tickets.
20:21 allison - General ticket review.
20:21 allison - Back into Pynie.
20:21 allison Blockers:
20:21 allison - In the midst of final assignments for the year, taking up a good bit of time. (Some are parrot-related.)
20:21 allison EOR
20:22 japhb q1q for allison
20:22 darbelo q1q
20:25 Coke PS coming up in 5 minutes; we'll need someone to volunteer to lead the meeting today.
20:27 mikehh ain't chromatic gonna be here?
20:28 allison Coke: are you not here the whole time? I can
20:30 Coke allison++
20:30 allison Hi all, who's here?
20:30 mikehh hi
20:30 darbelo I am.
20:30 japhb o/
20:30 bubaflub hello.
20:31 * cotto_work is
20:31 Util Hello
20:31 NotFound Hola
20:31 Tene I'm kinda here.  I don't have any useful information, though.
20:31 allison how did we do on our priorities this week?
20:32 allison lots of deprecations, some branch merges
20:32 cotto_work lots of deprecated stuff got removed
20:32 allison looks good
20:32 cotto_work fun times
20:32 mikehh still working on some of that
20:32 NotFound And lots of examples freed from gone stuff.
20:33 allison NotFound: excellent
20:33 allison what should out priority be this week?
20:34 allison more removing deprecated items and branch merges?
20:34 Coke there's still plenty left.
20:34 Coke +1 from me.
20:34 darbelo Removals are always good.
20:34 mikehh compact_pool_revamp is about ready to merge - tests ok
20:35 Tene branch merges?  If I'm actually awake some evening this week, I might be able to get my exceptions_refactor branch in a mergable state.  Not everything planned finished, of course, but some work.
20:35 allison mikehh: we'll mark that as a branch priority
20:35 bluescreen joined #parrotsketch
20:36 allison Tene: okay, added that one too
20:36 mikehh bacek++ and chromatic++ have done a lot of work - I just did some testin' and fixin'
20:36 allison Our 3-month priority is GC
20:37 allison There are some simple tasks for that that I harvested from tickets
20:37 allison low-hanging fruit in http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/wiki/GCTasklist
20:38 allison That's priorities and roadmap
20:38 allison Questions?
20:38 allison Coke first, since he'll have to go part-way through
20:39 allison <Coke>one was rakudo & TT #389 - like I said, jonathan was going to look at it, but it would be nice if we had someone on parrot-side who could also take a look.
20:41 allison I can take a look (I did the first fixes), other eyes welcome
20:42 allison <Coke> other was CPAN - is it worth it jumping back in for cpantesters on various platforms.
20:43 darbelo A reference for those of us that don't know how cpantesters works?
20:43 allison There are a set of people running smokes on CPAN
20:43 mikehh don't know if our tests work properly on an installed parrot
20:43 allison they don't
20:43 Coke the tests wouldn't be on an installed parrot.
20:43 particle new distros released to cpan  automatically smoke and report results via cpantesters
20:43 Coke they'd be doing the test bit as part of the build.
20:44 allison but, tests are run during the build... yeah
20:44 Coke but we never took advantage of that.
20:44 Coke omeone on #tooch
20:44 darbelo So, no chages to parrot?
20:44 Coke avar on #toolchain suggested it might be worth going back for that.
20:44 allison Coke: whoever uploaded the release got the reports
20:44 Coke win 2
20:45 allison on the down side, PAUSE broke on Parrot pretty much every month
20:46 allison is there anyone who'd like to take on CPAN packaging like we do for Fedora/SuSE/Debian/etc?
20:47 allison not here. I'll post the question to the mailing list
20:48 allison cotto, you had a question?
20:49 cotto_work JimmyZ has requested a commit bit.
20:49 NotFound +1
20:49 darbelo +1 # We need more multilinagual users.
20:49 particle +1
20:49 mikehh +1
20:49 NotFound Nagual users?
20:50 Coke I think we even already have a cla.
20:50 Coke multilingual, no doubt.
20:50 NotFound And win32 users.
20:51 allison do we have a volunteer to mentor?
20:51 cotto_work I'll mentor him as much as is needed.
20:51 allison sounds good
20:51 mikehh I'll help as necessary
20:51 allison double-check on the cla before flipping the bit
20:51 * allison checks, we do have one
20:53 allison japhb: you had a question?
20:53 japhb Actually, I can take it out of #ps, np
20:54 allison okay, darbelo?
20:54 darbelo Mine's about GSoC.
20:54 darbelo Do we have a procedure to get students started?
20:55 darbelo A recomended workflow, etc.
20:55 allison they generally work on a branch or on a git/mercurial/bzr clone
20:55 darbelo I can just jump to coding, but the rest of the GSoC students are new to the commuity afaict.
20:56 allison hmm... we haven't done that so far, but I like the idea
20:56 particle we're in the 'community bonding' period.
20:56 particle so everybody hold hands.
20:57 allison it's partly up to the mentor, but an email message introducing them to the project could be a good idea
20:57 allison at least make sure they know how to find us on IRC
20:57 darbelo Last year cotto did a good job of keeping me oriented through the process. But I was thinking of a "Here's how the parrot guys like to do things doc."
20:58 particle submissions.pod? getting_started.pod?
20:58 darbelo Something that's useful beyond GSoC.
20:58 allison darbelo: would you be interested in writing that, since you're closest to GSoC students and to the project?
20:58 bubaflub also a list of expectations - last year we kept weekly blog posts during the coding period, and it'd be good for new guys to know upfront that they should setup something if they don't already have it
20:59 bacek joined #parrotsketch
20:59 allison it can start simple, and grow as we run into things the students find helpful to learn
20:59 cotto_work darbelo: feel free to use whatever's useful from my intro message last year.  I was going to start a wiki page (or something) based on it.
20:59 bacek ~~
20:59 cotto_work afk
20:59 darbelo Ok. I'll draft something on the wiki.
21:00 allison Did I miss anyone's questions?
21:01 mikehh I had one but it has slipped my mind for now
21:01 allison one question that came up during the week is .gitignore files
21:01 allison several revisions on the idea
21:01 allison is the one we have now workable?
21:02 mikehh bacek has it down to a single file at the moment in the top directory
21:02 bubaflub i'm happy with what we have now
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21:02 darbelo One file isn't that big of a deal, and it helps the git-svn guys.
21:02 mikehh had to add svn properties, maybe better to ignore it
21:03 allison that seems a tolerable low-grade addition
21:03 Tene git-svn can generate .gitignore from svn props.
21:03 allison what are the advantages of having it checked in?
21:03 mikehh i.e. add it to svn:ignore
21:04 Coke We either need 0 or 1 .gitignore files. any more and it's annoying. =-)
21:04 Coke but 1? meh.
21:04 mikehh for those using git-svn
21:04 allison does git keep trying to commit it as a change if it isn't added?
21:04 mikehh no you need a specific commit
21:05 allison Coke: agreed on no more than 1 :)
21:05 Util q1q (in three parts)
21:06 allison not getting much discussion, and I think bacek had to leave
21:07 allison we'll stick with "one file isn't a big deal" for now
21:07 bacek I'm happy with single .gitignore
21:07 particle gitignore is the git equivalent of svn:ignore
21:07 particle it's helpful, as long as it's updated.
21:07 particle +1 to keep it.
21:08 japhb A single gitignore is fine.  I didn't say anything in the discussion because everyone else was already saying it.
21:08 allison sounds good
21:09 allison Util: your question(s)?
21:09 Util (Copied from #parrot)
21:09 Util PDD19 and book draft ch11 both mention a 2-arg form of the .meth_call directive, where the second arg is RETCONT.
21:09 Util 1) Is the 2-arg form actually supported?
21:09 Util 2) Are there any examples of the 2-arg .meth_call in anyone's working code?
21:09 Util 3) Is there an equivalent non-directive form with RETCONT, (like ` r = obj."method"(x, y, z) ` is a alternate way to write a non-RETCONT method call)?
21:10 Util (and deferring this back to #parrot is fine; I just wanted #ps eyes on the question)
21:11 allison Util: it's callmethod_p_p_p and callmethod_p_s_p
21:11 allison Util: that is, there are working opcodes for it
21:11 allison Util: but no syntactic sugar
21:12 darbelo Do we really need the sugar?
21:12 allison Util: though, I believe the .tailcall directive uses it to pass along the existing return continuation (would have to double-check)
21:13 allison darbelo: not necessarily, but it depends on the use
21:13 allison Util: what is the use?
21:13 Whiteknight joined #parrotsketch
21:14 Util darbelo: I don't think we need the sugar; I just wondered if I should be searching for another form in the code.
21:15 Util allison: doc-checking test was getting a bus error trying to compile the 2-arg example in PDD19.
21:15 Util I was just researching whether the pdd was out-of-date, or if a second example should be added to the pdd
21:16 allison Util: You can try a more complete code example, but my guess is that the .meth_call directive doesn't have a 2-arg version
21:16 Util allison: thanks. eoq
21:17 allison Util: on the whole, I'd say it *shouldn't* have one, so might as well correct the docs
21:17 allison Other questions/comments?
21:17 smash i have one if i may
21:18 Util allison: I'll have a look at .tailcall, then bring up the removing 2-arg in #parrot
21:18 allison smash: go ahead
21:18 allison Util: sounds good, thanks
21:18 smash this past week been trying to compile parrot to run on android phones, the problem is (as everyone is aware) parrot is still not cross-compiled friendly, any plans to address this subject in the future ?
21:19 allison yes, it's definitely on the roadmap
21:19 particle there's been an 'parrot on rtems' gsoc project accepted by rtems, hasn't there?
21:19 allison we need a good test-case
21:19 darbelo bubaflub will be working on that for his GSoC project.
21:19 allison particle: yes, and the cross-compile fixes are part of that
21:20 allison smash: if you'd like to wait for the rtems fixes you can
21:20 smash sure, anyway let me know if i can help on that particular subject
21:20 allison smash: or, you might want to spend some time with bubaflub to work on android at the same time as rtems
21:20 smash sure, i can do that
21:21 allison testing the fixes for rtems to see if they resolve all the problems for android would be enormously helpful
21:22 smash aye skipper
21:22 allison Sounds like that's the end of the questions.
21:22 allison Thanks to all, and back to hacking!
21:23 particle joined #parrotsketch
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