Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #parrotsketch, 2010-05-04

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
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14:02 plobsing won't make #ps, pre-posting
14:02 plobsing What I Did:
14:02 plobsing * discussed PBC strings optimization options
14:02 plobsing * implemented and merged quick solution (pbc_frozen_strings1)
14:02 plobsing * PBC smaller now, faster to read, but takes much longer to compile
14:02 plobsing What I Plan:
14:02 plobsing * Mitigate PBC compilation costs
14:02 plobsing * Maybe clean up IMCC a little along the way. Maybe unicorns too.
14:03 plobsing * Get more benefits out of the increased coupling between freezing and PBC
14:03 plobsing EOR
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17:57 darbelo done {
17:57 darbelo Started a wiki page to help GSoCers get started.
17:57 darbelo Started blogging about NFG.
17:57 darbelo Got bound to the community ;)
17:57 darbelo Updated decnum-dynpmcs to be explicit about automatic or manual attrs.
17:57 darbelo Jumped on git-svn bandwagon, not sure I like it.
17:57 darbelo }
17:57 darbelo todo {
17:57 darbelo Submit GSoC documentation to Google. Waiting on the 2010 forms getting posted.
17:57 darbelo More blogging. This time of a more concrete nature.
17:57 darbelo Maybe do some exploratory coding.
17:57 darbelo }
17:57 darbelo eor
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18:17 NotFound What I did:
18:17 NotFound -parrot
18:17 NotFound * Created PackfileDebug PMC.
18:17 NotFound * Implemented vtable init_int in Integer and PMCProxy, using it
18:17 NotFound wherever possible to avoid temporary objects and shorten up code.
18:17 NotFound * Update some examples to stop using deprecated or gone features.
18:17 NotFound * Improved some tests.
18:17 NotFound * Minor fixes and cleaning.
18:17 NotFound -winxed
18:17 NotFound * Fixed usages of parrot deprecated out features.
18:17 NotFound * Predefied constant __STAGE__.
18:17 NotFound * Prdefined functions upcase, downcase and titlecase.
18:17 NotFound * Class scope const now works in stage 1.
18:17 NotFound * Minor fixes and improvements.
18:17 NotFound What I will do:
18:17 NotFound No plan
18:17 NotFound EOR
18:24 dukeleto What I did:
18:24 dukeleto * Made the open opcode delegate to FileHandle.open to allow intercepting by PL/Parrot
18:24 dukeleto * Added security features to PL/Parrot, specifically, intercepting the open opcode and the open method on the File and FileHandle PMC's
18:24 dukeleto * Added a test to t/src/embed.t for Parrot_compile_string http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/46208
18:24 dukeleto * Found lots of bugs in Parrot_compile_string
18:24 dukeleto What I will do:
18:24 dukeleto * Create TT's for each bug I found in Parrot_compile_string and write tests.
18:24 dukeleto * Hopefully fix the implementation of Parrot_compile_string (currently syntax errors in IMCC makes Parrot_compile_string throw an error, instead of populating the error string. chromatic++ gave me some advice on how to fix this)
18:25 dukeleto * Do some stuff related to GSoC
18:25 dukeleto Blockers:
18:25 dukeleto * Stuff and things
18:25 dukeleto EOR
19:00 mikehh What I did since my last report:
19:00 mikehh * building and testing parrot on amd64/i386, with gcc/g++
19:00 mikehh * fixed examples_tests to work with in_place string ops
19:00 mikehh * some other fixes
19:00 mikehh * closed TT #1132, #1368 and #1600
19:00 mikehh What I intend to do in the next week:
19:00 mikehh * testing and fixing
19:00 mikehh * document what I needed to get parrot building and testing with new install of Ubuntu 10.04 and Perl 5.12.0
19:00 mikehh .eor
19:08 Coke joined #parrotsketch
19:08 Coke parrot: - discussion about migration to git. - apply patches
19:08 Coke - cage cleanups, ticket wrangling.
19:08 Coke - make OS and File Dynpmcs
19:08 Coke - rename Parrot_string_cstring to Parrot_str_cstring
19:08 Coke - rename STRING_is_null to Parrot_str_is_null
19:08 Coke - remove pushaction, pushmark, popmark opcodes
19:08 Coke - made auto/manual_attrs required
19:09 Coke - create branches/codestring to prototype a stringbuilder-like CodeString
19:09 Coke PMC that avoids string concat for 'emit'()
19:09 Coke - found segfault fixed by NotFound++
19:09 Coke partcl-nqp:
19:09 Coke - make it work with parrot-latest
19:09 Coke .
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19:33 cotto_work #did:
19:33 cotto_work * figured out how to get trac to support multiple vcs backends
19:33 cotto_work - getting trac to support links to multiple vcs backends is a smop at this point
19:34 cotto_work - kicked off discussion about scm migration
19:34 cotto_work #will do:
19:34 cotto_work * no plan
19:34 cotto_work #closed TTs:
19:34 cotto_work * #1592 (t/op/io.t  fails in non optimized build, closed for real)
19:34 cotto_work #eor
19:34 cotto_work q2q (also, I may be unresponsive starting at #ps+30 for 30m +/- due to a meeting)
19:35 moritz # did: kept rakudo up to date with current parrot
19:35 moritz rakudo has two problems with current parrot
19:35 moritz 1) pbc_to_exe needs >1GB memory on 64bit linux platforms
19:36 moritz 2) on the same platform spectests randomly segfault
19:36 moritz # EOF
19:36 dukeleto hello
19:36 * dukeleto cheers for free wifi at Ithaca airport
19:37 * cotto_work cheers for dukeleto being early
19:37 Coke "parrotsketch is at the next half hour.
19:43 * dukeleto may miss #ps due to boarding :)
20:14 Util # Done:
20:14 Util * Fixed typos in book.
20:14 Util # Plan to do:
20:14 Util * No time; No plan.
20:14 Util # Blockers:
20:14 Util * $WORK
20:14 Util .end
20:15 chromatic * worked on CodeString, in trunk and on branch, and it's much faster now
20:15 chromatic * worked on speedups of plobsing's constant STRING in PBC branch, but it needs more
20:15 chromatic * no progress on the GC, unless you count talking about it
20:15 chromatic * will continue to profile and encourage other people to help optimize
20:15 chromatic * need to become an awesome mentor to tcurtis, but blocking on time
20:17 * dukeleto will be missing the meeting, talk to y'all later
20:25 allison joined #parrotsketch
20:28 allison What I did:
20:28 allison - Finished off the lightweight language.
20:28 allison Blockers:
20:28 allison - Got very little time on Parrot this week because of 3 big end-of-year university projects due this week. The last one goes in on Thursday, so I'll have time again after that.
20:28 allison EOR
20:28 chromatic #ps in 2
20:30 cotto_work hello
20:30 darbelo Hola.
20:30 mikehh hi there
20:30 chromatic Hello.
20:31 NotFound Hola
20:31 Coke ~~
20:31 bubaflub joined #parrotsketch
20:31 chromatic Let's review last week's goals.
20:31 chromatic How are we doing on removing deprecated items?
20:32 mikehh lots gone
20:33 chromatic More to go?
20:33 darbelo If there's anything left it's probably small.
20:34 chromatic What branch merges do we have outstanding?  I know of codestring
20:36 chromatic Any progress on the exceptions_refactor branch?  Tene?
20:36 Tene chromatic: None.
20:36 chromatic Any blockers for you we can help remove?
20:36 Tene Sleep?
20:37 chromatic Possibly.
20:37 Tene I was attending a convention the past week and dealing with personal drama.  That's mostly gone, and I don't have any other blockers to getting anything done.
20:37 chromatic Let's talk about priorities for the coming week.  Any suggestions?
20:37 mikehh none of the other branches have been worked on in the last week
20:39 chromatic I'd like to see the codestring branch merge.
20:39 allison I'd say we can move on from the deprecations
20:39 chromatic I'd also like to see us fix -o PBC performance.
20:39 allison do we have volunteers willing to work on merging the codestring branch?
20:40 mikehh I'll do any testing needed
20:40 chromatic Rakudo testing is necessary too.
20:41 mikehh I've just been build/make smolder testing
20:41 mikehh still takes too long]
20:41 chromatic If plobsing et al can fix the PBC generation time, it'll build and test faster soon.
20:42 chromatic Other suggestions for this week?
20:42 mikehh I'll try and look at that
20:42 smash joined #parrotsketch
20:42 allison that sounds like plenty for one week
20:43 chromatic Let's move to roadmap review.  allison?
20:43 allison our supported release priority for this quarter is GC
20:44 allison we have a break down of smaller tasks
20:44 allison some of those could become weekly priorities
20:45 allison on the bigger tasks, we really need to pick one or two out of the set of possibilities
20:45 chromatic Are there GC tasks of the proper sizes?
20:45 allison some are small, some haven't been broken down yet
20:46 allison the best target for a weekly priority is the GC-related tickets
20:46 allison (not RFCs, but bug reports)
20:46 allison could we make it a priority to close one GC bug every week?
20:47 chromatic We can try.
20:47 mikehh could we get a list of GC related tickets
20:47 allison some are easy, like #987 to remove _synchronize
20:47 allison mikehh: already done
20:48 allison http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/wiki/GCTasklist
20:48 mikehh 'k - i'll look
20:48 allison my current thinking is that enabling copying/compacting may be the biggest win
20:49 allison in opening up doors for a variety of high-performance GC implementions
20:49 allison that's something we can talk about on the list
20:49 chromatic Other roadmap items?
20:49 allison that's it
20:49 allison (we cleared the  roadmap in the dev summit)
20:50 chromatic Question time.  cotto_work had two.  Are you here?
20:50 cotto_work yup, for a few minutes
20:50 cotto_work There's all kinds of discussion about moving to git, why we should, why we shouldn't, etc.
20:50 cotto_work I don't intend these questions to be a continuation of that debate.
20:50 cotto_work Under the assumption that we may eventually switch:
20:50 cotto_work Would it be preferable to host our *blessed* git repo ourselves (git.parrot.org or similar) or externally (github, gitorious, etc)?  Note that having a blessed repository doesn't exclude having mirrors elsewhere.
20:51 chromatic My preference is hosting with OSU OSL.
20:51 allison We don't really have enough information yet
20:51 chromatic That's not a blocking preference.
20:51 allison We may have to host with OSU OSL to get Trac integration
20:51 allison I don't know yet
20:51 allison And, it's pretty much guaranteed we will have mirrors elsewhere
20:52 cotto_work We could easily set up a regular sync of our trac site with an external host if we decide to go with that.
20:53 allison A purely-internal copy on OSU OSL? Yes that's another possibility
20:54 Coke (deprecated left probably small) not true.
20:54 Coke (move on from deprecations) I disagree. I want all of these deprecations closed or rejected.
20:55 allison Hmmm... I've been viewing deprecations as an ongoing thing
20:55 allison is there time pressure?
20:55 allison or is it more that we've got a backlog of old ones?
20:55 allison I have noticed some as old as 1.0
20:56 Coke I can't imagine there's time pressure.
20:56 Coke I just think it's a black eye.
20:57 Coke it's certainly a maint. win to remove code we know we're going to throw out eventually.
20:57 cotto_work eoq1, I guess.  It isn't a huge problem to work with either solution.
20:57 cotto_work What would be the preferred way to support backwards compatibility (i.e. so we don't have to rewrite all links to specific revisions in tickets, source, the wiki, etc)? (more)
20:57 mikehh we probably need to prioritize - but deprecations do not HAVE to happen
20:58 allison Coke: could we focus on one or two deprecations a week?
20:58 allison Coke: to make steady progress toward eliminating all of them?
20:58 Coke <shrug> people will work on what they want to; setting goals like that is contraindicated, no?
20:58 mikehh they are just a warning not to use this stuff in new code
20:59 NotFound mikehh: not true, there are deprecated things with no working alternative.
20:59 allison Coke: if I had one deprecation a week, I would work on it
20:59 Coke mikehh: yes. but in the meantime, people DO use them, and we still have to maintain them, maintain the test, coding standards, etc.
20:59 allison Coke: I mostly just don't know where to start
20:59 mikehh it might just *nudge * somebody to work on it
21:00 cotto_work (asking because I have to take off, will backscroll)
21:00 Coke allison: there are deprecation tickets out there that have questions waiting for feedback from you now.
21:00 cotto_work 1) Keep svn around in read-only mode.  The only potential wrinkle from an implementation perspective is link support, which should be doable.
21:00 cotto_work 2) Drop svn completely, using mod_rewrite or similar trickery to keep compatibility with old links.
21:00 cotto_work 3) something else
21:00 cotto_work eoq
21:00 Coke (I apologize for interrupting cotto's question.)
21:00 cotto_work ditto
21:00 allison cotto: 2 or 3
21:00 allison cotto: 3 if we can figure out what it is :)
21:01 allison Coke: I know. It's one of those lingering guilty feelings.
21:02 allison Coke: I can put that top on my list for this month.
21:02 allison Coke: it's more satisfying to close them than to comment and hope someone else does, but hopefully I can unblock others
21:03 chromatic I can remove a couple of deprecated features.
21:03 Coke allison: I of course will not complain if you close them. Just trying to reduce the amount of work you need to do so someone else can move on it.
21:04 allison Coke: yes, unblocking first, then more detail in a few
21:06 chromatic Other questions?
21:07 Coke When are board elections?
21:07 Coke (I should know this)
21:07 allison beginning of June
21:08 allison which means we need to update the members roster
21:10 mikehh do we have a specific policy on what changes can be made in trunk and what needs a branch?
21:11 darbelo It's ussually up to the developer doing it. "Small" in trunk, "Big" in branch.
21:11 chromatic Stable in trunk, potentially unstable in branch.
21:12 mikehh yes but how small is small
21:12 darbelo mikehh: chromatic's explanation is best.
21:12 mikehh ?
21:12 NotFound mikehh: if you have any dout, it isn't.
21:13 chromatic Any other questions, comments, or concerns?
21:16 chromatic Okay, let's wrap up this week.  Let's close some tickets.
21:16 Coke chromatic++
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