Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #parrotsketch, 2010-08-10

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Time Nick Message
00:04 wagle joined #parrotsketch
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12:24 kid51 kid51's report (for several weeks)
12:24 kid51 DONE
12:24 kid51 * Posted to list report about Parrot/Rakudo increased memory footprint leading to inability to compile Rakudo Star from source on machines on which it once compiled.
12:24 kid51 * Created TT #1725 re headerizer documentation; created branch to work on this.
12:24 kid51 * Took TT #1726 created by mikehh re .pmc files lacking function documentation.  Created t/codingstd/pmc_docs.t to identify such functions; merged to trunk last night.
12:25 kid51 DOING/WILL DO
12:25 kid51 * Will go through list of undocumented PMC functions, try to determine who is best to write docs on each, then contact contributors via email.
12:25 kid51 * If everybody pitches in, we can get this all done quickly.
12:25 kid51 * Have organized New York City Rakudo Star study group.
12:25 kid51 QUESTIONS/COMMENTS
12:25 kid51 * Over the last 1-1/2 years we've had a lot of discussions about improved garbage collection, LLVM, Lorito, etc.
12:25 kid51 * But my impression is that most of this work is still in the future, i.e., not much has actually been accomplished.
12:25 kid51 * Is that impression correct?  When I speak to non-Parrot people about Parrot, I need talking points.
12:25 kid51 * Which of our improvement projects can we actually get done, say, by October 15?
12:25 kid51 EOR
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18:35 bubaflub joined #parrotsketch
19:18 khairul joined #parrotsketch
19:23 khairul did:
19:23 khairul . code cleanup to prepare move to github at the conclusion of GSoC.
19:23 khairul . minor bugfixes.
19:23 khairul . partial user guide at http://parrot.mangkok.com/?page_id=140
19:23 khairul will do:
19:23 khairul . figure out a apply a fix relating to vtable syncing between supervisor and child interpreter.
19:23 khairul . finish up user guide.
19:23 khairul . hopefully add more test cases.
19:23 khairul eor
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19:26 atrodo joined #parrotsketch
19:27 Coke Only did minor hacks on partcl-nqp this week. Still need to get back to the 'make html' fixes.
19:27 smash joined #parrotsketch
19:38 mikehh joined #parrotsketch
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19:45 bubaflub did:
19:46 bubaflub * GSoC - parrot configures out of directory
19:46 bubaflub * GSoC - parrot can run configure-time test programs in build directory
19:46 bubaflub will do:
19:46 bubaflub * GSoC - allow templated files to be in build (rather than source) directory
19:46 bubaflub * GSoC - allow an out of directory build
19:50 tcurtis What I did:
19:50 tcurtis * Extracted my test optimizations for constant-folding and tail call elimination for NQP into an indepedent module
19:50 tcurtis - Here: http://github.com/ekiru/simple-optimizations
19:50 tcurtis * Expanded the constant-folding optimization to support several ops, add, sub, mul, fdiv.
19:50 tcurtis * Fixed various bugs.
19:50 tcurtis * Added support for bundling up passes in modules and adding them to optimizers more conveniently.
19:51 tcurtis What I will do:
19:51 tcurtis * Write a blog post.
19:51 tcurtis * Fix bugs.
19:51 tcurtis * Improve docs.
19:51 tcurtis * Improve tests.
19:51 tcurtis * Prepare for "firm 'pencils down'" date Monday.
19:51 tcurtis EOR
19:59 chromatic joined #parrotsketch
20:00 Chandon joined #parrotsketch
20:01 cotto_work #done:
20:01 cotto_work - met with khairul
20:01 cotto_work - started on trac plugin, got help from dafrito++ mapping between svn revisions and git hashes
20:02 cotto_work #hope to:
20:02 cotto_work - get the plugin into a usable state and set up a test site
20:02 cotto_work - write something cool to show what Khairul's been doing
20:02 cotto_work #eor
20:03 NotFound What I did:
20:03 NotFound -parrot
20:03 NotFound * Minor refactors and nano optimizations
20:03 NotFound * Implement init_int in Default, allowing usage of init_int in
20:03 NotFound HLL mapped internals.
20:03 NotFound * Added a few tests
20:03 NotFound -winxed
20:03 NotFound * Initial review of plobsing issues
20:03 NotFound What I will do:
20:03 NotFound No plan, short of available time
20:03 NotFound EOR
20:13 Chandon Did:
20:13 Chandon - Green threads with native threads for blocking IO mostly works in my branch.
20:13 Chandon Will do:
20:13 Chandon - Fix some remaining bugs before gsoc pencils down.
20:13 Chandon - Wrap blocking operations other than FileHandle#readline
20:13 Chandon - Add more tests.
20:13 Chandon END
20:17 mikehh What I did since my last report:
20:17 mikehh * building and testing parrot on amd64/i386, with gcc/g++
20:17 mikehh * some fixes
20:17 mikehh * testing rakudo, partcl-nqp, partcl, pir/PIRATE, winxed and plumage
20:17 mikehh * tracking down some documentation problems with pmc's
20:17 mikehh What I intend to do in the next week:
20:17 mikehh * testing and fixing
20:17 mikehh * prepare for and release 2.7.0
20:17 mikehh .eor
20:21 chromatic I worked on some optimizations and found more infelicities (hashes, MRO).
20:21 chromatic I also did some profiling of the gc_massacre branch (huge memory usage for NQP-rx).
20:21 chromatic I will... do what I can.
20:24 NotFound Forgot to say: I also made the worse demo video ever seen: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trtvDaLUJb8
20:28 Paul_the_Greek joined #parrotsketch
20:28 Paul_the_Greek Hey folks.
20:29 cotto_work just a bit early
20:29 cotto_work (but not much)
20:30 NotFound Hola
20:30 cotto_work hi
20:30 Util Hello
20:30 tcurtis Hi.
20:31 chromatic greetings
20:31 Chandon Hi
20:32 darbelo Hi.
20:32 darbelo DONE
20:32 darbelo -   GSoC soft pencils down date yesterday.
20:32 darbelo -   Worked on the unshared_buffers branch.
20:32 darbelo -   Got a 10% improvement on string stress benchmark.
20:32 darbelo -   'Real world' tests (i. e. rakudo build) didn't go that well, though.
20:32 darbelo TODO
20:32 darbelo -   Make compact_pool smarter. That should improve 'Real world' performance.
20:32 darbelo -   Merge back to trunk if the performance improves.
20:32 darbelo -   From there to the gsoc_nfg branch, which needs this more than trunk.
20:32 darbelo EOR.
20:32 chromatic Thoughts on the past week?  What went right?
20:32 Coke I had little time for parrot this week, sorry. Austin++ was helpful, though.
20:33 Paul_the_Greek I learned a lot.
20:33 mikehh some improvments, couple of new tests
20:33 darbelo We had one person show up and say he liked our docs :)
20:33 cotto_work Paul_the_Greek: and got something committed
20:33 Paul_the_Greek Yes, thanks for doing that.
20:34 bubaflub all props to cotto_work for the testing and Paul_the_Greek for the code
20:34 chromatic Parrot does run a little bit faster and uses slightly less memory than the week before.
20:34 Paul_the_Greek Thanks!
20:35 mikehh nobody seemed to break anything
20:35 Paul_the_Greek Is this the forum to point people at a ticket and ask for future comments? I don't feel confident making the decision.
20:35 NotFound And some ugly parts are a bit cleaner.
20:35 chromatic Those are all good small gains.
20:35 chromatic What didn't go so well in the past week?
20:35 cotto_work Paul_the_Greek: it's not a bad place.  Wait until we get to the questions though.
20:35 Paul_the_Greek Okay.
20:36 Paul_the_Greek Bad thing: I cannot find Windows binaries for GMP 4.1.4 or later. I spent 2 hours looking.
20:36 mikehh I think too many people are waiting for lorito etc
20:36 darbelo We still have several outstanding branches waiting to merge.
20:37 darbelo Most seem to block on tuits, though.
20:37 chromatic There's still a lot of low-hanging ugly and slow.
20:37 Paul_the_Greek I was thinking of jumping into the PIR assembler, but I can't figure out which one to work on. What's the plan with that?
20:37 Tene Out of all the things I'm blocking, none of them are lorito.
20:38 darbelo Oh, and we broke lua.
20:38 chromatic Most of my blocking has been "Wow, I wish I had NotFound or bacek or someone to help with this code!"
20:39 NotFound chromatic: I'm short of time these days.
20:39 Coke a common lament.
20:39 chromatic So am I, and what time I have I'm short of brilliance.
20:39 Tene I have plenty of time; I'm just short of sane.
20:40 Paul_the_Greek Short of knowledge.
20:40 chromatic Any other laments before we start looking at how to fix our lacks?
20:40 NotFound darbelo: but we fixed it, I think.
20:41 NotFound Someone looking for a quick and easy task: add a test for that.
20:42 chromatic Let's move on to What Now.
20:42 chromatic Suppose I do some profiling and figure out that mro calculation is significantly expensive for Rakudo.
20:42 chromatic How do I work with a Tene or a darbelo or a plobsing to fix that?
20:43 Paul_the_Greek mro?
20:43 Util method resolution order
20:43 Paul_the_Greek Got it.
20:44 mikehh we have 1 week before the 2.7.0 release,
20:44 mikehh I would like to see html_cleanup land before then
20:45 Coke (*&@#$. Hokay.
20:45 mikehh and any merges in the next couple of days
20:45 chromatic Slushy late Saturday?
20:45 mikehh so we can test properly before the release
20:46 Tene chromatic: I might be free on thursday or friday night, or sometime on Saturday.
20:46 mikehh and I probably need lots of help as I have not done this before
20:47 cotto_work I can help with uploading the tarball and docs if needed.
20:48 cotto_work It really is mostly just following the doc.
20:48 Tene If you really want me to come work on something with you, you can try asking me to work with you one of those times.
20:49 chromatic Trouble is me predicting my availability.
20:49 Util chromatic: (in general) Create a ticket/wiki/branch containing your analysis and early work, and announce on #ps/#parrot/mailing-list that you need help with it; a msg/cc to Tene/darbelo/plobsing would be great in case they miss the original announcement, but others (that you don't realize have the skills) might have time where your intended target do not.
20:50 Tene I can easily predict my availability, just not my sanity.
20:50 chromatic Is it as simple as "I need help, so please let's collaborate?"
20:51 Tene Could be.  That's fairly cheap to try, at least.
20:51 chromatic Will do.
20:51 Util Isn't it?
20:51 mikehh we could try for a hackathon ovewr the weekend or something like that
20:52 chromatic A hash cleanup hackathon would be nice, and it's probably more accessible than unshared buffers or GC massacre.
20:52 chromatic Then again the make html might be more immediately useful and less risky.
20:53 mikehh html_cleanup is mostly there - just indexing and the like
20:53 chromatic Other thoughts?
20:54 darbelo With a realease this close, I'd go for less risky.
20:54 mikehh If it breaks too much we can always revert
20:54 chromatic We can always develop in a branch.
20:54 chromatic Wholesale hash replacement should be a branch anyway.
20:55 Coke +1 on doing that, and in a branch.
20:55 Coke helping gc_massacre hit would be nice, though.
20:55 Coke (too many chainsaws in the air)--
20:55 chromatic I think that one blocks a lot on bacek.
20:56 mikehh who seems to have been very involved with $work recently
20:57 mikehh it would be nice to get some branches ready to land after the release
20:58 chromatic Can we set priorities for those?
21:00 darbelo The dynop mapping brancb seems pretty important.
21:00 mikehh html_cleanup this week, gc_masacre asap, hash_allocator and other hash asap
21:00 mikehh that as well
21:00 chromatic Oh, dynop mapping.  That'd be nice for the release.
21:01 mikehh I saw quite a bit of work there, what still needs to be done?
21:01 NotFound I can try to take a look at it.
21:02 chromatic Any corrections to this order?  dynop mapping, html cleanup, gc massacre, hash allocator, hash revision?
21:03 darbelo plobsing sent a mail to the list recently outlining what was missing, IIRC.
21:03 mikehh so html_cleanup and maybe dynop_mapping this week
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21:03 mikehh chromatic: looks good
21:04 darbelo Found it: http://lists.parrot.org/pipermail/​parrot-dev/2010-August/004582.html
21:05 chromatic Let's move on then.
21:05 chromatic Other thoughts on schedule or niceties or prioritization?
21:06 NotFound AFAIK Op and packfile PCB are used only in examples and in pirate, none of wich is a blocker for anything.
21:06 NotFound I mean PMCs
21:06 chromatic Too bad, I wanted Parrot hardware.
21:07 darbelo Also, the Op PMCs are experimental. No API concerns, there.
21:08 NotFound So I'll vote for marge and solve the remaining issues in trunk.
21:10 chromatic Coke, can you summarize the state of your branch somewhere?
21:10 chromatic Can someone get plobsing to do the same?
21:11 NotFound plobsing was active this week, he even sent a patch for winxed.
21:13 chromatic He's the one shepherding dynop mapping.
21:13 chromatic Anything else to discuss?
21:13 smash chromatic: can i just make a notice ?
21:14 Tene I might be able to merge my exceptions work sometime.
21:14 chromatic Go ahead, smash.
21:15 smash just like to remind every that that the call for nominations for this years election for board of directors of the parrot foundation is opne unitl next tuesday
21:16 smash more info via e-mail on parrot-members if my mail make i thorugh
21:16 smash chromatic: that's it, thank you
21:16 Util Paul_the_Greek had a question about bringing attention to a ticket?
21:16 Paul_the_Greek I have two questions.
21:16 chromatic Go ahead.
21:16 Paul_the_Greek First: Does anyone have a source for Windows binaries for GMP 4.1.4 or later?
21:17 Paul_the_Greek We seem to have a dependency on unobtanium.
21:17 Paul_the_Greek I spent two hours today with no luck. Got sources, but can't build them.
21:17 Util I do not, but I will investigate creating one with MinGW, which was used on GMP 4.1
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21:18 Paul_the_Greek Yes, MinGW is what I'm using.
21:18 Paul_the_Greek Thanks.
21:18 Paul_the_Greek Okay, here is the ticket. If I could get a few comments over the next few days, that would be helpful.
21:18 Paul_the_Greek http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/1731
21:18 Paul_the_Greek No hurry, I'll be at the beach for two weeks.
21:19 * dukeleto waves hello
21:19 mikehh hi dukeleto
21:20 chromatic Anything else?
21:20 Paul_the_Greek Util: I found binaries for 4.1.3, but Parrot requires 4.1.4 or later.
21:20 mikehh yeah smolder is still down, any ideas?
21:21 cotto_work Coke said osuosl would put smolder on parrot.org's vm
21:22 mikehh particle said something about installing it om parrot.org, but I don't know if anything has happened there
21:22 dukeleto cotto_work: one thing to note is that smolder has memory leaks, so it might not be good to run it on the same vm. perhaps if it has hard ulimits
21:22 cotto_work classy
21:23 dukeleto cotto_work: yeah, something to note. I think it is memory leaks in the dependencies of Smolder, i am not sure if it is Smolder itself that has the leaks
21:23 mikehh smolder or something like that is important to check for other platform failures
21:24 mikehh taptinder is useful. but we need something more
21:24 dukeleto q1q
21:25 chromatic Let's try to get a status report from particle on that.
21:26 chromatic dukeleto, question?
21:27 dukeleto what is the proper place to talk about board nominations?
21:29 chromatic Not sure anyone knows.
21:30 dukeleto ok, well all i have to say is that i would appreciate if somebody would nominate me for the board, because I am interested in being on it
21:31 * dukeleto is much obliged
21:33 chromatic anything else?
21:34 darbelo Last week of GSoC. If you need something from your student, get it now.
21:34 Paul_the_Greek Do people announce vacations etc. via the list, on calendar, or not at all?
21:34 chromatic Are students on track to succeed?
21:35 mikehh I'll run tests on the branches in the next couple of days
21:35 Paul_the_Greek Not that I'm on any critical path.
21:35 Coke Paul_the_Greek: not that I've ever seen.
21:35 cotto_work khairul is looking good
21:35 Coke if you're collaborating with someone, no doubt they'll mention it.
21:35 chromatic tcurtis will succeed.
21:35 whiteknight Chandon is on course
21:36 * darbelo still feels hope...
21:37 * bubaflub laughs nervously
21:38 chromatic Let's wrap this up then.  I mailed the list about branch priorities.  Let's do it!
21:40 * dukeleto thinks most students are on the track to pass GSoC, will know more in the next few days
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