Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #parrotsketch, 2010-09-07

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15:03 kid51 kid51's report
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15:03 kid51 * Began service as member of board of directors
15:03 kid51 * (dukeleto, particle: need feedback on emails sent in last two days)
15:03 kid51 * Played role in closing several tickets, including about 4 of which I was owner
15:04 kid51 * Won't be available for #ps today due to medical appointment; will read backscroll
15:04 kid51 EOR
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19:27 NotFound What I did:
19:27 NotFound -parrot
19:27 NotFound * Fixed a few bugs, some previously created by me
19:27 NotFound * Minor refactors
19:27 NotFound * Rearranged some tests with C coverage in order to give 100% coverage
19:27 NotFound when pass without compromising the tested features
19:27 NotFound * Added more core PMCs tests
19:27 NotFound -winxed
19:27 NotFound * Allowed calls to functions called 'new' in stage 1
19:27 NotFound * Minor internal changes
19:27 NotFound * Experimented with usage of perl5 modules via blizkost. Been able to run
19:27 NotFound helloworld examples with Gtk2 windows and buttons. Looks promising.
19:27 NotFound What I will do:
19:27 NotFound No fixed plan, maybe playing with blizkost
19:28 NotFound EOR
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19:47 Coke some board-related handoffs (more like handwaving). minor trac work, mailing list updates.
19:47 Coke EOR
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20:06 tcurtis What I did:
20:06 tcurtis * Uploaded my GSoC tarball to Google Code.
20:06 tcurtis * Ran Rakudo spectests through Valgrind.
20:06 tcurtis - Average of ~132kb "definitely lost" per spectest.
20:06 tcurtis - Still working on more useful analysis.
20:06 tcurtis * Didn't really get much else done on Parrot.
20:06 tcurtis What I will do:
20:06 tcurtis * No plan.
20:06 tcurtis Blockers:
20:06 tcurtis * Preparing for moving to Chicago next Saturday for university.
20:06 tcurtis EOR
20:07 mikehh What I did since my last report:
20:07 mikehh * building and testing parrot on amd64/i386, with gcc/g++
20:07 mikehh * some fixes
20:07 mikehh What I intend to do in the next week:
20:07 mikehh * testing and fixing
20:07 mikehh .eor
20:08 tcurtis I may be late for #ps, so I'll go ahead and mention my suggestion for this week's priority: close $n old tickets (for some definition of old).
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20:19 Util # Done
20:19 Util * On RosettaCode, Added Perl6 solutions for "Anagrams", "Formatted numeric output", "Top rank per group". Improved "Remove duplicate elements", "Rakudo".
20:20 Util # Plan to do:
20:20 Util * Work to close the neglected tickets that I own.
20:20 Util # Blockers:
20:20 Util * RosettaCode is addictive
20:20 Util .end
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20:25 chromatic I've been profiling and trying to tune.  I could use GC-related help.
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20:29 cotto_work #done:
20:29 cotto_work -  git o'clock approaches!
20:29 cotto_work - set up a test site for github trac plugin at http://mksig.org/trac/ (apologies for slowness; it's due to the host vm for mksig.org)
20:29 cotto_work - sent pull request for github plugin to upstream maintainer
20:29 cotto_work - put draft migrtation timeline on the wiki under GitMigration, collaborating with dukeleto++
20:29 cotto_work #hope to:
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20:30 cotto_work - refine the github migration, get everything in place for the move
20:30 cotto_work #eor
20:30 cotto_work q1q
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20:31 chromatic Helly everyone.
20:31 chromatic hello
20:31 mikehh hello
20:31 dukeleto What I did:
20:31 dukeleto * Worked on parrot github mirror.
20:31 dukeleto * Worked on git docs :
20:31 dukeleto http://github.com/parrot/parrot/blob/leto%2Fgit_docs/docs/project/git_terminology.pod
20:31 dukeleto * Fleshed out the migration plan on the wiki
20:31 dukeleto What I will do:
20:31 dukeleto * Continue to work on git docs and refine the migration plan
20:31 dukeleto .EOR
20:31 tcurtis Hi.
20:31 dukeleto howdy
20:31 cotto_work hii
20:32 Paul_the_Greek Hello folks.
20:32 chromatic How'd we do last week?
20:32 Util Hi
20:32 Paul_the_Greek Closed almost 25 tickets, I think.
20:32 NotFound Hola
20:32 dukeleto closed 23 tickets, i believe. very close to the goal
20:32 chromatic 25 is good.  Was that about right, or was it a stretch>
20:33 dukeleto chromatic: i think it was about right
20:33 mikehh a bit - but good to aim for
20:33 cotto_work it was also a holiday weekend in the us
20:33 * dukeleto is a proponent of aiming high
20:33 dukeleto cotto_work: good point
20:33 mikehh a lot of the easier tickets have gone
20:33 chromatic Should we do it again?
20:34 mikehh yes
20:34 dukeleto chromatic: i think that sounds good
20:34 cotto_work +1
20:34 Util Exact count:   30 closed: fixed,  1 closed: invalid,  14 new,   4 reopened
20:35 chromatic 25 about right?
20:36 dukeleto chromatic: +1 to trying to close 25 tickets again this week
20:36 mikehh I think that should be our goal until we are down to around 299 or so open
20:37 chromatic How are we doing on branch merges?
20:37 dukeleto i saw detect_llvm get merged
20:37 mikehh was working on html_cleanup but $work intervened
20:38 nwellnhof i'd like to merge charset_massacre
20:38 dukeleto We currently have 32 active svn branches.
20:38 chromatic What's nearest to a merge point?
20:39 dukeleto Paul_the_Greek: is sleeker_boolean mergable?
20:39 Paul_the_Greek I think it's ready.
20:39 tcurtis Would it require a deprecation cycle?
20:39 chromatic sleeker_boolean?  I doubt it.
20:40 Paul_the_Greek I talked with chromatic about that and we agreed this is compatible.
20:40 Paul_the_Greek It passes exactly the same tests.
20:40 cotto_work ship it
20:41 Paul_the_Greek I also added a benchmark.
20:41 chromatic Other branches?
20:41 Paul_the_Greek Okay, I'll merge it this week.
20:42 tcurtis Branch pmc_multi_support can probably be deleted. It looks to have been merged into trunk at r46785.
20:42 chromatic Do it.
20:42 dukeleto tcurtis++
20:43 nwellnhof does everybody think it's ok to merge charset_massacre?
20:43 chromatic If it passes tests and doesn't hurt Rakudo/Lua, yes.
20:43 chromatic Benchmark figures would be nice too.
20:44 nwellnhof charset_massacre shouldn't give big speedups. it's mostly shuffling code around.
20:44 chromatic It shouldn't slow things down though.
20:45 nwellnhof i can check that. what's the preferred benchmark?
20:45 chromatic Anything string heavy.
20:46 nwellnhof i have looked for string heavy benchmarks, but couldn't find many.
20:46 chromatic Building Rakudo?
20:46 chromatic bootstrap-ops?
20:47 nwellnhof if building rakudo is a good enough benchmark, i'll go with that.
20:48 chromatic Any other branches?
20:48 chromatic make_html?
20:49 mikehh the indexing needs setting up, otherwise ok
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20:50 chromatic Any volunteers to fix that?
20:50 mikehh i.e. the index and sub-index pages from .json stuff already there
20:51 Coke s/building rakudo/passing rakudo's make spectest/
20:51 mikehh I'll bring it up-to-date later and could use some help there -> html_cleanup branch
20:52 Coke note that we may have that many branches, but "active" is a strong word. see tools/*/branch_status.pl for a better idea of if they're active or not.
20:53 dukeleto Coke: only meant "active" in the "exists" sense
20:53 dukeleto Coke: http://github.com/parrot/parrot/branches seems easier
20:53 dukeleto Coke: it tells you last-modified date and how many commits behind/ahead of trunk (which is master in git)
20:54 chromatic Any other suggestions for next week?
20:55 dukeleto chromatic: Refine our plan to convert to git
20:55 dukeleto If everyone can take a look at http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/wiki/GitMigration and see if we missed something, that would be great.
20:56 chromatic Oh, one thing we forgot to discuss.  Memory leaks?
20:57 cotto_work some were found, probably not all of them
20:58 tcurtis I found a lot of leaking in Rakudo's spectests. I haven't tracked down the specific sources yet. moritz thinks that Rakudo skips global destruction, possibly explaining the leakage, but chromatic seemed doubtful of that.
20:59 chromatic Run VG on ./perl6 -e -1.  If Rakudo skips global destruction, you'll see lots of leaks.
20:59 chromatic I don't see lots of leaks there.
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21:02 chromatic Do we have tickets for those leaks, or is that in progress?
21:03 nwellnhof I ran most of the PIR files of the parrot test suite with valgrind, and there are many IMCC related leaks.
21:03 mikehh we seriously need to replace IMCC
21:04 Paul_the_Greek Should we perk up PIRC?
21:04 Coke mikehh: there are 2 well defined paths for that happen, and a 3 nebulous one. go for it. ;)
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21:04 dukeleto nwellnhof: it would be nice if you could email parrot-dev about some of the worst leaks
21:05 Coke dukeleto: as opposed to opening tickets?
21:05 nwellnhof it's mostly stuff like that: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/748
21:05 nwellnhof always in the IMCC lexer
21:06 dukeleto Coke: both, preferrably
21:06 tcurtis chromatic: valgrind --leak-check=full does produce lots of leaks on ./perl6 -e -1 at rakudo g2ac5feb and parrot r48628, actually.
21:06 nwellnhof tcurtis: can you post the valgrind output somewhere?
21:07 tcurtis nwellnhof: for the whole spectest run? or for ./perl6 -e -1? The former(even after trimming to just the backtraces) is about 19k lines.
21:07 chromatic This is getting into specific development details that sound like #parrot topics.
21:08 * tcurtis moves to #parrot.
21:08 chromatic Anything else on this topic for #ps?
21:08 cotto_work 1q
21:09 mikehh mee too
21:09 mikehh i.e. q2q
21:09 chromatic cotto_work?
21:09 cotto_work I'd like to propose that when we move to Git, we put our primary official repository on GitHub.  dukeleto++ and I have been working on ironing out the details (GitMigration on the wiki), but I want to ask if there are any serious objections or concerns regarding our impending move to git.
21:09 cotto_work I'll also send a message to parrot-dev asking for any objections/conerns later this week.
21:10 chromatic Why Github over OSU?
21:11 dukeleto chromatic: i see you haven't read #parrot from this morning ;)
21:11 cotto_work less work for osu
21:11 dukeleto chromatic: it takes us askign OSU for lots of things
21:11 dukeleto chromatic: also, that can happen anytime we want, after the switch
21:12 dukeleto changing our canonical repo is trivial in git, unlike in svn.
21:12 dukeleto i have no problem mirroring github to git.parrot.org, but that can be done after the switch.
21:13 dukeleto every clone is a full backup, so the problem isn't anywhere near as important as it was in svn
21:13 chromatic Other thoughts?
21:14 Paul_the_Greek Trivial question?
21:14 cotto_work anyone with a commit who's not in the Parrot org on github should talk to dukeleto about getting there.
21:14 chromatic Let's move on to the next question then.  Paul_the_Greek, if it's about Git go ahead.
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21:15 Paul_the_Greek No, it's about something else. I'll wait.
21:15 * dukeleto has added just about everyone with a commit bit to github already. please let me know if you create a github account or if I missed you
21:16 chromatic mikehh, you had two questions.
21:16 mikehh I have been running make corevm/make coretest as part of my testing procedure for a while now
21:16 mikehh since the move of a lot of ops out of core was wondering if the utility of these tests
21:16 mikehh are as important now as they used to be - getting 2 tests fa]iling at the moment
21:17 mikehh our structuyre has changed quite a bit
21:17 mikehh structure
21:18 chromatic It's nice to have something simple when making deep changes, but if we're not making sure everything passes that's a problem.
21:20 mikehh I don't know if many other devs are running these tests
21:20 dukeleto I think the coretest/corevm targets are still very useful.
21:20 Paul_the_Greek Is github.com/parrot the place?
21:20 dukeleto mikehh: they are most useful when big changes are happening.
21:20 dukeleto mikehh: they were indispensible when the calling convention refactor happened
21:21 mikehh also I was passing the tests on amd64 and founnd that they were pulling the libs from an older installed parrot
21:21 mikehh need to check on that
21:22 NotFound The failing tests are fixable by using the config hash from the interpreter instead of sysinfo, I think
21:23 mikehh I had rm'ed /usr/local/lib/libparrot.so but didn't remove other stuff
21:23 mikehh NotFound: I think so yes
21:23 chromatic Is there a ticket for that?
21:23 chromatic or a commit?
21:23 mikehh not yet
21:24 mikehh I was more worried why it was failing on i386 and not amd64
21:24 chromatic Can someone file a ticket for that then?
21:25 mikehh the library stuff or the test failures?
21:25 chromatic Either/both/whichever.
21:25 mikehh 'k will do
21:26 chromatic Next question?
21:26 mikehh dukeleto: that was when I included them in my test routine - after calling conventions refactor
21:27 mikehh mainly on smolder tests
21:27 mikehh I was wondering if anything had happened there
21:27 mikehh I thinkj we need them to look at tests on other platforms
21:29 mikehh we had quite a few problems with smolder.plusthree.com and it is now down
21:30 mikehh we need to run it from parrot.org
21:30 cotto_work it's installed now
21:30 mikehh we then need to set pointers to it
21:31 cotto_work I don't know if it's active.  particle was the one who coordinated
21:31 mikehh and what about other things that used it - i.e. rakudo and others
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21:33 mikehh we need to get it up and running and encourage others to use it, especially other platforms
21:34 chromatic Other questions?  Paul_the_Greek had one.
21:34 * kid51 is home from medical appt
21:34 mikehh hi kid51
21:34 Paul_the_Greek Simple thing: Do we all agree that sprintf should format exponent with 2 digits? E+00
21:34 Paul_the_Greek (unless more are needed, of course)
21:37 chromatic +1
21:37 mikehh what does it do now?
21:37 Paul_the_Greek It does that. It has been suggested that no leading zeroes be kept, so E+0.
21:38 Paul_the_Greek But two digits is by far the standard.
21:38 Paul_the_Greek This comes up because some sprintf's generate three digits, but we're trying to be consistent.
21:39 Paul_the_Greek Two digits passes all the tests, one digit fails a bunch of them.
21:40 mikehh double and long double can give you more, but unless 3 are needed 2 is better
21:40 Util +0 # keep current behavior, until someone articulates why it is a problem on their platform.
21:40 kid51 Util:  this is a long standing TT, so *someone* thinks its a problem
21:41 Util What is the ticket number?
21:41 mikehh I think 2 is the standard
21:41 Paul_the_Greek Hang on ...
21:41 Paul_the_Greek http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/1200
21:42 kid51 TT #1200: opened by Coke
21:42 Paul_the_Greek I've added a #define for the standard number of exponent digits, so it's easy to change later.
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21:43 kid51 Paul_the_Greek:  With an earlier patch from you I was getting test failures.  Assuming we can get past them, +1 from me to standardization.
21:43 mikehh +1
21:43 Paul_the_Greek kid51: You mean an earlier patch on this ticket?
21:44 Util I remember working on that - platform-independent is the way to go. +1 to 2 digits (unless 3 are needed).
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21:45 Paul_the_Greek The code now canonicalizes to 2 digits unless more are needed. It works for any number of exponent digits.
21:46 chromatic Any further questions?
21:46 kid51 It seems that Util and Paul_the_Greek have different positions.  I doubt we're going to settle it in today's psketch.
21:46 kid51 Util:  If your position differs, please post in TT #1200
21:46 Paul_the_Greek I  think we're agreeing.
21:47 kid51 k
21:47 Paul_the_Greek 2 digits unless more are needed.
21:47 Util I agree that we are agreeing.
21:47 kid51 k
21:48 chromatic Anything else?
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21:50 chromatic Let's wrap it up.  Good work everyone.
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21:51 dukeleto ENODISHES
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