Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #parrotsketch, 2010-11-30

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:58 kid51_at_dinner joined #parrotsketch
01:58 bluescreen left #parrotsketch
02:15 bluescreen joined #parrotsketch
02:22 bacek left #parrotsketch
02:32 kid51_at_dinner is now known as kid51
02:57 bluescreen left #parrotsketch
03:45 kid51 kid51's report
03:45 kid51 WORKED ON:
03:45 kid51 * http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/532 "headerizer refactor".  tools/dev/headerizer.pl has been phalanxed.  Down to approximately 20 untested statements/branches/conditions.  See tt532_headerizer_refactor branch.
03:45 kid51 * http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/1862 "gcc -fvisibility=hidden".  CLOSED.
03:46 kid51 * http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/1861 "ipv6 config probe too noisy".  CLOSED.
03:46 kid51 WILL DO
03:46 kid51 * Will continue to work on TT #532 and then TT #855 "profiling options"
03:46 kid51 REQUESTS
03:47 kid51 * Still need feedback on http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/1840 "config step to detect RTEMS" (kid51 nudges dukeleto)
03:47 kid51 * http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/1844: git instructions for README:  One last bit of feedback needed.
03:47 kid51 EOR
03:52 whiteknight left #parrotsketch
04:28 kid51 left #parrotsketch
06:49 contingencyplan left #parrotsketch
08:13 bacek joined #parrotsketch
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09:52 bacek joined #parrotsketch
13:45 contingencyplan joined #parrotsketch
15:33 mikehh joined #parrotsketch
17:18 NotFound joined #parrotsketch
17:23 Emanuel joined #parrotsketch
17:30 atrodo joined #parrotsketch
18:11 whiteknight joined #parrotsketch
18:11 whiteknight WHAT I DID:
18:11 whiteknight * Working with GCI students creating--and closing--lots of tasks.
18:11 whiteknight * Digging through the IOTasklist on the Trac wiki, turning some easy things into GCI tasks and trying to motivate other devs into looking at it too
18:11 whiteknight * embed_api branch is building, thanks in no small part to bluescreen++. I still haven't sorted out problems with error message reporting. Have some blogging to do about this.
18:11 whiteknight WHAT I WILL DO:
18:11 whiteknight * Attend PDS!
18:11 whiteknight * Try to resolve error message issues in the embed_api branch ASAP. Will alert the list and all about it when I am done. Will prepare to talk about it at PDS
18:11 whiteknight * Keep up with GCI.
18:11 whiteknight WHAT I AM BLOCKING ON:
18:11 whiteknight * Time
19:06 Emanuel left #parrotsketch
19:43 NotFound What I did:
19:43 NotFound -parrot
19:43 NotFound * Fixed a bug in library loading that was causing random segfaults
19:43 NotFound * Moved find_codepoint from experimental.ops to string.ops
19:43 NotFound * Fix and un todo/skip a few tests.
19:43 NotFound * Developing and testing the MappedByteArray PMC in a branch.
19:43 NotFound -winxed
19:43 NotFound * Added options -I and -L to the installable compiler
19:43 NotFound * Allowed multiple declaraions in int, string and float statements.
19:43 NotFound * Several minor refactors and improvements.
19:43 NotFound What I will do:
19:43 NotFound * Try to merge to master the mappedbytearray branch.
19:43 NotFound EOR
19:45 cotto_work *did:
19:45 cotto_work - approved/reviewed some gci tasks (fbrito++)
19:45 cotto_work - wrote up initial core inclusion guidelines
19:45 cotto_work - feedback and additions are welcome
19:45 cotto_work - read some papers
19:45 cotto_work - PDS
19:45 cotto_work - more gci review/approval
19:45 cotto_work - grok and critique bacek's proposed gc algorithm
19:45 cotto_work - ramp up on Lorito, figure out knowns, unknowns and questions
19:45 cotto_work - will have a face-to-face Lorito brain dump on the 9th with allison, chromatic and possibly dukeleto
19:45 cotto_work - if you have any burning questions, ask me or put them on LoritoDesignQuestions
19:45 cotto_work *blockers:
19:45 cotto_work - none
19:45 cotto_work *eor
19:52 cotto_work some truncations: I also started to review bacek's gc code.  The TODO begins with "read some more papers"
19:59 bacek left #parrotsketch
20:02 Util No tuits last week. Work on pbc_to_exe this week.
20:02 Util curl -s 'http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ti​meline?daysback=7&amp;ticket=on' | perl -wlne '/<em[^>]+\(([^"]+)\)">/ or next; $h{$1}++; END {printf "%7d\t%s\n", $h{$_}, $_ for sort keys %h}'
20:02 Util 2 closed: done
20:02 Util 9 closed: fixed
20:02 Util 4 closed: invalid
20:02 Util 17 closed: wontfix
20:02 Util 1 closed: worksforme
20:02 Util 13 new
20:02 Util 2 reopened
20:02 Util EOR
20:11 dukeleto joined #parrotsketch
20:17 plobsing joined #parrotsketch
20:19 plobsing What I Did:
20:19 plobsing - cut PIRC out into its own project
20:19 plobsing What I Plan:
20:19 plobsing - increase the awesome (see plobsingtasklist on wiki for probable targets)
20:19 plobsing EOR
20:26 kid51 joined #parrotsketch
20:29 plobsing left #parrotsketch
20:29 dukeleto What I did:
20:29 dukeleto * Got a TPF grant to work on embed system tests and docs:
20:29 dukeleto http://news.perlfoundation.org/2​010/11/2010q4-grant-results.html
20:29 dukeleto * Organized Parrot's involvement in Google Code-In. We have students submitting really cool stuff,
20:29 dukeleto many pull requests have been merged.
20:29 dukeleto * Just attended a great talk about Rubinius and learned a lot about how Parrot needs to use LLVM
20:29 dukeleto * Hacked on the tt1798_ipv6 branch, which adds IPv6 support to Parrot.
20:29 dukeleto What I will do:
20:29 dukeleto * Write "how to merge pull requests with signed-off-by lines" and "how to submit a patch"
20:29 dukeleto sections for our git_workflow.pod
20:29 dukeleto Blocking on:
20:29 dukeleto * Too much cool stuff to hack on.
20:29 dukeleto .EOR
20:29 dukeleto I might miss some of #ps today.
20:31 whiteknight Hello
20:31 NotFound Hola
20:32 Util Hello
20:32 whiteknight tell me we have more than 3 people today?
20:33 dukeleto hola
20:33 NotFound After thansgiving effects?
20:34 dukeleto cotto: you here?
20:34 cotto_work yes
20:34 whiteknight who's driving this train?
20:34 dukeleto whiteknight: you are.
20:34 whiteknight okay, let's get started
20:34 whiteknight how did we do last week?
20:34 tcurtis joined #parrotsketch
20:34 whiteknight I didn't see any movement on gsoc_past_optimizations
20:34 dukeleto what happened with gsoc_past_optimizations ? Did it get merged?
20:35 whiteknight no, definitely not merged
20:35 * tcurtis failed to get around to working on it over Thanksgiving.
20:35 tcurtis Sorry about that.
20:35 whiteknight I was looking at generational_gc branch notes too, but failed miserably
20:35 whiteknight I think this was a bad week with the holiday
20:36 whiteknight We have been kicking ass with Google Code-In though
20:36 cotto_work a note about the gen_gc branch: the comments are for a proposed algorithm that hasn't been implemented yet
20:36 kid51 Hmm, my impression was that we had a lot more activity than in previous weeks -- but not on the first 3 priorities listed in topic.
20:36 whiteknight 23 tasks completed already, most very high quality code/doc submissions
20:36 whiteknight kid51: astute observation
20:36 cotto_work My understanding is that the algorithm needs review and eyeballs and that bacek doesn't see much future for the current code in the branch.
20:36 kid51 plobsing (I think) moved PIRC out of main repository -- which eliminated 20+ Trac tickets
20:37 whiteknight cotto_work: yes, that's my understanding too
20:37 whiteknight kid51: yes, but he opened them all as tickets on github
20:37 kid51 We may actually get < 600 tickets for the first time since I've been involved with Parrot
20:38 whiteknight I'm hoping we can get down to 550 soon, with a concerted effort
20:38 cotto_work sounds like a weekly goal
20:40 dukeleto meh
20:40 bacek joined #parrotsketch
20:40 dukeleto I am not motivated by "close X tickets", but maybe others are
20:41 dukeleto I prefer a more focused goal, but that is just me.
20:42 kid51 I would welcome a comprehensive summary of the status of our Garbage Collection efforts in advance of this Sunday's PDS.
20:42 whiteknight kid51: yes, we are working on that
20:43 kid51 (I'd also welcome "Garbage Collection for Dummies" -- but that's a different request ;-) )
20:43 whiteknight Okay, I think that's enough for current status. What goals do we want to focus on for the coming week?
20:43 kid51 Preparing for PDS and having a good one.
20:43 cotto_work PDS prep for one
20:43 PacoLinux joined #parrotsketch
20:44 whiteknight definitely PDS prep
20:44 kid51 Also:  Do we need to do anything more to keep up with google code-in than we did this past week?
20:45 whiteknight and GCI tasks. That program is not showing any signs of slowing down
20:45 * kid51 has not gotten any assignments, per se
20:45 whiteknight The students are eating tasks as quickly as I can make them
20:45 whiteknight kid51: The way mentors are assigned is goofy, you basically have to suggest the task yourself if you want to become a mentor
20:45 whiteknight coming up with task ideas is the hardest part so far
20:46 whiteknight We've been through ~23 tasks in a week
20:46 kid51 Did any students bite on the Spanish translation tasks yet?
20:46 dukeleto kid51: yes. We need more GCI tasks.
20:46 dukeleto We need more code tasks.
20:46 whiteknight There are some translation tasks open, I think
20:47 dukeleto These students are more talented that I thought they would be. Which is a good thing.
20:47 whiteknight Okay, PDS and GCI. Any other goals we want to attempt for this week?
20:48 nwellnhof joined #parrotsketch
20:48 cotto_work GC algorithm review for those who feel like getting their feet wet.
20:48 whiteknight yes, I need to re-attempt that again
20:48 NotFound I'd like testing of MappedByteArray
20:48 whiteknight okay, that's a good one too. NotFound: is it mergable with testing?
20:49 NotFound I think I can merge right now, but have tested only in linux and windows.
20:49 whiteknight okay. More testing on that then
20:50 * dukeleto is going to lunch
20:50 dukeleto NotFound: do we have code coverage stats for MappedByteArray ?
20:50 NotFound Maybe merge is the quicker way. Any brokeness will be easily fixable with some more #if
20:50 dukeleto +1 to merge
20:50 whiteknight +1
20:50 NotFound dukeleto: I don't have coverage stats for anything.
20:50 mikehh +1
20:50 NotFound make cover looks broken
20:51 whiteknight blah. We might want to get that fixed
20:51 cotto_work Just make sure to mark it experimental until we feel like it's ready to have a supported interface.
20:51 NotFound cotto_work: yeah, that was my intention
20:51 cotto_work full steam ahead, then
20:52 mikehh make cover fixes as a goal?
20:52 whiteknight mikehh: if we have somebody who can make it happen
20:52 whiteknight I don't know anything about it myself
20:52 mikehh I'll certainly have a look at it
20:52 NotFound I haven't a clue about it.
20:52 NotFound mikehh: then +1
20:53 whiteknight PDS, GCI, Make cover, and testing some branches?
20:53 whiteknight that's really all we should have, we don't want to get overloaded
20:53 Topic for #parrotsketch is now PDS Dec 05 2300 UTC !!! | Priorities for this week: PDS, Google Code-In, MappedByteArray test&merge, fix `make cover`, GC algorithm review | Don't forget to post closed tickets in your report. | Note: This channel is only for our Tuesday status meetings (at 20:30 UTC); you probably want #parrot instead. | irclog: http://irc.pugscode.org/
20:54 cotto_work What's the best way to prepare for PDS?
20:54 whiteknight 1) Send an email to parrot-dev about anything you want to see discussed
20:54 whiteknight that's it
20:54 * kid51 will test mappedbytearray on Darwin
20:54 whiteknight I think we want to talk about embed_api and the GC, so I am going to send summaries about those to the list soon
20:54 whiteknight any other topics are welcomed
20:55 atrodo Lorito?
20:55 Util cotto_work: shadow boxing, Rocky Balboa-style
20:55 whiteknight Lorito will wait till next PDS
20:55 kid51 Fine
20:55 cotto_work Lorito won't be discussed, but I'll be blogging about it after meeting with allison and chromatic on the 9th
20:55 kid51 Good
20:55 atrodo Works for me
20:56 whiteknight okay, shall we move on to questions?
20:56 NotFound Talking about testing, did we have some standard way to create temporary files in PIR tests?
20:57 whiteknight I'm not aware of any
20:57 kid51 IIRC, we don't.  I think there is a TT about that somewhere.
20:58 mikehh need the equivalent of File::Temp or something
20:58 kid51 http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/955
20:59 NotFound I'll take a look at it.
21:01 whiteknight Does anybody have any questions? I have several
21:02 whiteknight ...?
21:02 whiteknight Okay, I guess I'll go first :)
21:03 whiteknight user bluescreen has sent in a CLA. He's made a number of good commits to my fork and has been a big help on the embed_api branch. Vote to make him a committer?
21:04 NotFound +1
21:04 mikehh I think so, he's been around for a while
21:05 mikehh +1
21:05 Util +1
21:05 whiteknight I'm willing to mentor
21:05 cotto_work have we received his cla?
21:06 whiteknight yes
21:06 whiteknight earlier this week
21:06 cotto_work +1
21:07 whiteknight okay, We'll set that up soon. Next question:
21:07 whiteknight GZipHandle PMC. (TT #1580). It's experimental but many people use it and rely on it
21:07 whiteknight I suggest it no longer be experimental
21:08 NotFound Just a matter of deleting it from experimental and close the ticket, ot there is some more work needed?
21:08 whiteknight no, just remove it from DEPRECATED.pod
21:08 NotFound Good
21:08 NotFound +1
21:08 Util Does it use native code, or call an external C lib?
21:09 whiteknight PMC wrapper around an external C lib
21:09 whiteknight libgzip2, I think
21:09 Util +1
21:10 whiteknight GZipHandle is a dynpmc, optionally compiled only if the necessary prereqs are found during configure
21:10 * Util wonders about a future API to say "this dynpmc is not available" without haveing to know the config dependencies.
21:11 NotFound Just try to load it.
21:12 NotFound Making a way to check if something can be loaded without loading it is more code to maintain and debug for no good cause.
21:12 mikehh q1q
21:12 Util NotFound: And have it return/throw something that means "disallowed/not available" instead of "sorry I can't do that Dave"?
21:12 whiteknight okay. mikehh:  you can go
21:12 Util NotFound: good point
21:12 whiteknight (we're losing steam, so I'll save the rest of my questions)
21:13 mikehh essentially opengl - you have a ticket #1870 I think, but I get a lot of config failures because we do not have a parrot type longlong
21:14 NotFound I have that failures too, but it works anyway.
21:14 mikehh well it works for me in winxed
21:15 whiteknight we voted last time to maybe move the OpenGL bindings out into a separate repo. This might be a moot point
21:16 mikehh do we need an equivalent in int64 or something in parrot anyway? I think so
21:17 mikehh especially on 32 bit platforms
21:18 whiteknight that gets tricky because Parrot is C89
21:18 whiteknight there isn't a long long type, and not all 32 bit compilers have a 64-bit long
21:18 whiteknight msvc is a perfect example. long is 32 bits
21:19 mikehh yeah, but I have always felt we should move on to at least C99
21:19 NotFound In platforms that doesn't have it, surely there will not be libraries that use it wich need to interface.
21:19 mikehh and do workarounds for those platforms that don't have it
21:20 whiteknight mikehh: that could be a topic for serious discussion. I know msvc doesn't really support C99, so we need to consider portability
21:20 whiteknight but it is a discussion that could definitely be raised. this or the following PDS might be a good forum to broach the topic
21:21 kid51 IIRC, it was only that we wanted to support Win32 that led us to remain at C89.
21:22 mikehh we have to do all sorts on fiddly things on Win32 anyway
21:22 NotFound Win32 no, Visual C++
21:23 NotFound There are sane compilers for win32
21:25 cotto_work I'd rather not lose msvc support if we can help it.
21:25 Util cotto_work: I agree (even though I heart MinGW)
21:25 whiteknight win32 does have partial compliance with C99. it does support long long for instance
21:26 NotFound Anyway, I think we can support long long for platforms that have it with conditional compilation without much trouble, at least for interfacing NCI.
21:26 whiteknight we will have to weigh it out
21:26 mikehh I seem to remember having 64 bit int types available in msvc
21:26 mikehh haven't used it for a while though
21:27 NotFound cotto_work: I can help. People that use it can help.
21:27 cotto_work Can someone volunteer to find out if it's possible to support msvc and use C99?
21:27 NotFound But without that last part, the first is pointless.,
21:28 NotFound We can't support compilers nobody uses or nobody report problems.
21:29 * dukeleto is back
21:29 NotFound We can declare that we support it, but will be a lie.
21:29 whiteknight okay, I have to leave now. I think we're about at the end of the meeting anyway
21:29 whiteknight dukeleto can take over if there is anything else to talk about
21:29 whiteknight left #parrotsketch
21:30 dukeleto what does our PDS goal of this week actually mean?
21:30 kid51 It means:  prepare for it and attend it
21:30 NotFound Doing it without anyone being hurt? ;)
21:31 kid51 NotFound: apt!
21:31 kid51 If you want to shorten the Topic by taking that out, that would be okay.
21:31 mikehh dukeleto:  prep for the PDS, make sure we consider the necessary discussion topics
21:32 dukeleto mikehh: what does that mean?
21:32 mikehh dukeleto: set an agenda?
21:32 dukeleto kid51: what does "prepare" for the PDS mean?
21:33 kid51 I've requested that whiteknight prepare a summary of where we stand on API work/team.
21:33 kid51 I'm hoping that there be something similar re GC.
21:33 kid51 I will post to parrot-dev a proposal for scheduling our PDSes for next 12 months.
21:34 mikehh dukeleto: set up a list of topics that need discussion in the PDS
21:34 kid51 In other words, post stuff in advance of the meeting so that the meeting moves effectively.
21:34 kid51 As opposed to, "Alright, we're here; what happens now?"
21:35 * kid51 has to refocus on $job
21:35 kid51 left #parrotsketch
21:36 mikehh dukeleto: and also "be prepared" for the meetin'
21:37 dukeleto sounds good to me. Does anybody else have questions or comments?
21:39 mikehh I know I had something else I wanted to bring up, but it has slipped my mind at the moment :-{
21:41 plobsing joined #parrotsketch
21:44 dukeleto it's a wrap.
21:44 dukeleto left #parrotsketch
21:44 atrodo left #parrotsketch
21:45 plobsing left #parrotsketch
21:45 nwellnhof left #parrotsketch
21:48 NotFound There is no info in ParrotDeprecations for the functions recently renamed.
21:48 NotFound Wrong chanel.
21:48 NotFound left #parrotsketch
22:08 PacoLinux left #parrotsketch
22:08 bluescreen joined #parrotsketch
23:22 tcurtis left #parrotsketch
23:46 tcurtis joined #parrotsketch
23:49 whiteknight joined #parrotsketch

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