Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #parrotsketch, 2011-01-18

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Time Nick Message
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14:30 particle ww, and i always forget that nickserv registration syntax....
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19:03 kid51 kid51's report
19:03 kid51 DONE
19:03 kid51 * SELF
19:03 kid51 ** http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/1957: Configure.pl ignores argument given to --optimize: solved; closed.
19:03 kid51 ** http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/1925: remove config step auto::jit: implemented;closed.
19:04 NotFound joined #parrotsketch
19:04 kid51 ** http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/1922: review 'make help': some patches already applied, more to come.
19:04 kid51 * CAGE cleaning and/or work with Andy Dougherty led to closing of these tickets:
19:04 kid51 ** http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/1953
19:04 kid51 ** http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/1950
19:04 kid51 ** http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/1132
19:04 kid51 ** http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/395
19:04 kid51 ** http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/735
19:04 kid51 ** http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/1289
19:04 kid51 ** http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/97
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19:04 kid51 * OTHERS
19:04 kid51 **  Reported several TTs that were largely fixed by others: TT #1942 (nwellnhof++); TT #1963 (NotFound++);
19:05 kid51 WILL DO/MERGE
19:05 kid51 * http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/1934: implement coding_std (copyright only) for Python
19:05 kid51 * http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/540: installed versions of dynext/*.so still link to -lparrot in build directory: will close if no objection
19:05 kid51 * http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/1954: 'make docs' target is currently superfluous
19:05 kid51 ALSO
19:06 kid51 * Email-ed several Parrot developers in Asia/Australia re good start-time for Parrot Developer Summit Jan 29-30 ... but got no feedback ... bacek?
19:06 kid51 EOR
19:22 NotFound What I did:
19:22 NotFound -parrot
19:22 NotFound * Added and fixed some tests
19:22 NotFound * Allowed using a code string in Test;More throws_type
19:22 NotFound * Minor fixes
19:22 NotFound -winxed
19:22 NotFound * Added named parameter 'target' to compile method in compreg'ed object.
19:22 NotFound What I will do:
19:22 NotFound No plan
19:22 NotFound EOR
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19:50 plobsing What I Did
19:50 plobsing - pbc-backref
19:50 plobsing - tt-triage for rgrjr++ tickets
19:51 plobsing What I Plan
19:51 plobsing - no plan ATM
19:51 plobsing EOR
19:58 tcurtis What I did: nothing. What I will do: try to fix bugs and otherwise improve tree-optimization.
20:15 mikehh What I did since my last report:
20:15 mikehh * building and testing parrot on amd64/i386, with gcc/g++
20:15 mikehh * testing and some fixes for release 3.0.0
20:15 mikehh What I intend to do in the next week:
20:15 mikehh * testing and fixing
20:15 mikehh * set up html_cleanup_2 to remove the cruft left over
20:15 mikehh *  (thought I would wait until after the release for this)
20:15 mikehh * start preparations for next release
20:15 mikehh .eor
20:19 Util # Done:
20:19 Util * Misc Perl 6 work
20:19 Util # Plan to do:
20:19 Util * Finish .dmg for Rakudo Star (usable by Parrot)
20:19 Util # 7-day ticket report:
20:19 Util 31 closed: fixed
20:20 Util 10 closed: wontfix
20:20 Util 1 closed: worksforme
20:20 Util 34 new
20:20 Util 2 reopened
20:20 Util .end
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20:25 allison - Parrot 2.9.1 packages finally accepted for Debian (unstable) this week, just in time to turn around and submit the 3.0 packages
20:25 allison EOR
20:26 bacek Report: start rewriting PCT to NQP. Will try to squeeze more time to finish it.
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20:27 whiteknight WHAT I DID:
20:27 whiteknight * Tested.
20:27 whiteknight * Worked on imcc_cleanups. Got to a stable point in the interface rework and merged
20:27 whiteknight * Been preparing the next few steps in the process.
20:27 whiteknight * merged exception_backtrace
20:27 whiteknight * Back to blogging
20:27 whiteknight WHAT I WILL DO:
20:27 whiteknight * merge gci_orderedhash_coverage, after some testing
20:27 whiteknight * Get PLA up to date, get it testing again, and release something to use with 3.0
20:27 whiteknight * Create a new branch to continue IMCC work.
20:27 whiteknight EOR
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20:30 kid51 Good afternoon/evening/morning
20:30 Util Hello
20:30 allison hi
20:30 mikehh Hi there
20:30 chromatic afternoon
20:30 Coke ~~
20:30 tcurtis Hiello.
20:30 tcurtis s/i//
20:30 whiteknight hello
20:31 NotFound Hola
20:31 bacek ~~
20:33 whiteknight okay, let's get started. Thanks to cotto for the 3.0 release
20:33 cotto_work late report
20:33 cotto_work *did:
20:33 cotto_work - reviewed rfcs, approved a handful
20:33 cotto_work - fixed install to update libparrot symlink, fix didn't go into 3.0.0
20:33 cotto_work - kicked PDD10 (embedding) out of draft
20:33 cotto_work + whiteknight++ for all of his continuing work there
20:33 cotto_work + whiteknight++ suggested that we do RCs to shake out such bugs in the future
20:33 cotto_work *will do:
20:33 cotto_work - more rfc review
20:33 cotto_work - PDS prep
20:33 cotto_work *blockers:
20:33 cotto_work - none
20:34 cotto_work *eor
20:34 cotto_work and hello
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20:34 dukeleto hola
20:34 whiteknight did we have any goals for last week? I didn't write them down and they aren't in the channel topic
20:34 cotto_work quite a few
20:34 cotto_work GOAL 1: Write a GettingStartedWithPlumage wiki page
20:34 cotto_work GOAL 2: Fix the setlocale bug (plobsing)
20:34 cotto_work GOAL 3: Review the documentation produced by make html (all)
20:34 cotto_work GOAL 4: test HLLs, especially Rakudo and nqp-rx after the feature freeze (all)
20:34 cotto_work GOAL 5: review all deprecation tickets, file proper notices (cotto, whiteknight, bacek)
20:35 whiteknight Okay, I see a few in there that got done
20:35 dukeleto did #2 get done?
20:35 cotto_work dukeleto: yes
20:35 cotto_work plobsing++ took care of it later that day
20:36 Coke q1q
20:36 cotto_work tadzik++ did #1
20:36 dukeleto cotto_work++ # nice work on 3.0.0
20:37 kid51 goal 1 appears met:  http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/wiki/GettingStartedWithPlumage -- but needs to be linked to from main wiki page
20:37 tadzik si. I'd like to receive some feedback on it: more, different, just right?
20:37 dukeleto so it seems that we hit all those goals. nice work peeps!
20:37 cotto_work We got some good testing against Rakudo, both from the Parrot side and from moritz++
20:38 NotFound winxed was tested
20:38 cotto_work q1q
20:39 mikehh q2q
20:39 NotFound lua doesn't install from plumage for me, a test fail because it expects a native lua available, or something like that,
20:39 kid51 q1q
20:40 cotto_work thoughts on the release?
20:41 cotto_work problems?
20:41 NotFound No problem
20:41 cotto_work goals for the week?
20:42 kid51 There are quite a few branches to be merged and patches to be applied; let's try to get them done before the weekend.
20:42 kid51 Also, people need to start posting on parrot-dev in prep for Parrot Dev Summit
20:43 tadzik cotto_work: I'll take care about Deprecations As Data in the weekend
20:43 cotto_work tadzik: I'm very happy to hear that.
20:43 tadzik will surely be consulting the ideas and decisions once I get to it
20:43 cotto_work that'll make life much more pleasant for users as it gets implemented
20:44 whiteknight okay, we ready for questions?
20:44 cotto_work whiteknight: did you have any thoughts on doing an RC?
20:44 whiteknight cotto_work: nothing yet
20:44 cotto_work ok
20:44 cotto_work Coke: you had a question.
20:46 cotto_work Coke?
20:47 whiteknight ENOCOKE
20:47 kid51 cotto_work: You're next
20:47 cotto_work alright.  I had one
20:47 cotto_work We need volunteers release managers. 3.3, 3.4 and 3.5 are open.  Any volunteers?
20:48 whiteknight I was just about to send this question to the lsit
20:48 whiteknight I'm happy to take 3.3
20:48 mikehh let me see how 3.1 goes and I'll let you know if I can handle another one
20:48 cotto_work mikehh: no pressure
20:49 cotto_work mikehh: you had a couple questions
20:50 mikehh smolder: I am finding it difficult to get reliable info from smolder these days, there are too many
20:50 mikehh different tests being run by the compile farn for me to distill reliable information on pass/fail
20:50 mikehh We need a new report/interface so we can see recent problems and so on
20:50 whiteknight I was worried that reports would get drowned out by the sheer volume
20:51 cotto_work dukeleto mentioned something to that effect that earlier this week too.
20:51 mikehh I am not objecting to more tests, but need to be able to distill the info better
20:51 cotto_work mikehh: yes
20:51 kid51 Need something queryable
20:51 cotto_work we need to deal gracefully with a large volume of test submissions
20:52 whiteknight what do we want to see, just the failures?
20:52 kid51 Perhaps we should start a wiki page "wishlist: features desired in smoke reporting"
20:53 cotto_work kid51: something not entirely unlike that is at http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/wiki/AutomatedHLLTesting
20:54 mikehh a more condensed report perhaps, showing passes/fails etc.
20:55 cotto_work Please add requests to that wiki page so they won't be lost.
20:56 dukeleto yes, i will implement stuff on that page as I have time
20:57 mikehh btw, how many reports does smolder retain?
20:57 dukeleto it is configurable
20:57 mikehh previously it used to delete the older ones
20:57 dukeleto i think it keeps the last 1000 for parrot, and less for all the other projects
20:58 dukeleto it keeps statistics for all time, but only keeps full TAP output of the last 1000 parrot smoke reports
20:58 whiteknight We probably do not need that many
20:58 whiteknight especially if disk space is an issue on our VM
20:58 dukeleto so what action items do we need?
20:59 * dukeleto will volunteer for some kind of parrot release in the future, needs to look at his calendar
20:59 cotto_work For now, I think that we should work on the wishlist and figure out what all we'll need.
20:59 dukeleto we only have 2 smokers that only test 16 combinations across 2 compilers
21:00 dukeleto I could easily increase that number and seriously DOS smolder
21:00 dukeleto Smolder can't handle the GCC compile farm
21:00 cotto_work We want something that can.
21:00 dukeleto we need a spec of what EXACTLY needs to be "supported"
21:00 dukeleto and then we test that
21:02 whiteknight It would be very nice if smolder only held the list of failures. We don't need to send the complete TAP output for a passing test suite
21:02 * dukeleto will brb
21:02 cotto_work mikehh: does that come close to addressing your firstquestion?
21:03 cotto_work s/tq/t q/
21:03 mikehh something to work on
21:03 Coke I'm back.
21:03 Coke (list of failures) use the RSS feed.
21:03 mikehh the smoke reports are about 150/160K so should not overwhelm a server
21:05 cotto_work mikehh: it's more an issue of presenting the data, though a very large number of reports could fill up the server if nobody keeps an eye on them.
21:05 Coke (e.g. http://smolder.parrot.org/app/projects/feed/1/failed)
21:05 Coke the server is already set to only keep N reports.
21:06 cotto_work right
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21:06 cotto_work Coke: you had a question?
21:07 Coke related to mikehh's - we should try to get the failed feed to be green so any NEW failures aren't lost in that noise.
21:07 * bacek have to go. Will backlog
21:07 Coke this is probably mostly skipping tests that shouldn't be run when config'd with certain options.
21:08 Coke that's it.
21:09 cotto_work Avoiding false test failures sounds like a good goal.  There are a few on Windows that I'd like to see go away.
21:10 cotto_work mikehh: how about your other question?
21:10 mikehh make html: I haven't had any feedback on any problems encountered there, I would like to include
21:11 mikehh more documents/pod - for example projects folder - release-manager.pod etc. any ideas on that.
21:11 NotFound The problem with skipping tests is that they usually remain in that state for years until no one remebers why.
21:12 Util Marking tests as "skip" is supposed to be ties to a ticket, with the TT# in the skip description
21:12 mikehh NotFound:  suitable comments should help, but we should review that
21:12 Util s/ties/tied/
21:12 cotto_work Util: yes
21:12 NotFound mikehh: there are hundreds of skipped/todoed without comment or with uninfotmative ones.
21:13 mikehh NotFound: yes, we need to start a project on that
21:13 cotto_work NotFound: We can work on cleaning it out, but there's no need to build it up.
21:14 mikehh I started to review skipped tests a year or so ago, but got distracted
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21:15 cotto_work sounds like another good goal.  Any volunteers to focus on that this week?
21:15 mikehh I think it is a longer term goal
21:15 cotto_work mikehh: sure, but we can get a start this week.
21:16 mikehh it is a goal like closing TT's - continuing
21:18 cotto_work Getting back to your question, I did a brief review of the html docs but didn't get far.  It would be nice if the internal docs were included in the generated html.
21:18 mikehh like the native_pbc tests TT#357
21:18 cotto_work e.g. the release manager guide
21:18 NotFound Also, be careful of not using skip when really should be todo.
21:18 cotto_work NotFound: that's an important point.
21:21 cotto_work kid51: did you have a question?
21:21 mikehh regarding make html, bear in mind it pulls the title from the generated pod (or directly from .pod files)
21:22 mikehh we need to follow up on the codetests related to that
21:22 * dukeleto is back
21:22 kid51 cotto_work: Thanks.
21:22 kid51 bacek: Did you get my email re scheduling start-time for PDS weekend after next?
21:23 kid51 (In previous ps, we said we would try to accommodate devs in different time zones.)
21:23 kid51 (This time around, trying Asia/Australia).
21:23 cotto_work I saw a message.  It seemed to me that the next step would be that you'd work with folks to figure out the time.
21:23 kid51 Yes, but I didn't get feedback from the 3 devs I tried to contact.
21:24 cotto_work kid51: have you set up a doodle poll?  That worked well last time.
21:24 kid51 If, say, we were to meet at what would be 6:00 pm NYC time, that would be 10:00 am next day Sydney
21:25 kid51 cotto_work: The problem with that poll is that given our geographic distribution, polling will always be biased in favor of North American developers
21:25 cotto_work kid51: that's not a problem.  Just give priority to certain developers.
21:26 cotto_work There's nothing about the poll that forces any particular outcome.
21:26 kid51 I won't have time for several days to set up a polling mechanism.
21:27 cotto_work It's a 5 minute job.  I can do it if you don't have the tuits.
21:27 cotto_work I have plans for the weekend and I would like to know how the PDS will affect them.
21:28 cotto_work bb5m
21:29 kid51 Did anyone have questions queued after mine?
21:29 whiteknight I think that was it for queued questions
21:29 whiteknight any other questions?
21:32 cotto_work back
21:32 whiteknight I don't think there are any other questions
21:32 whiteknight wrap up?
21:32 cotto_work none queued
21:32 cotto_work wfm
21:32 cotto_work oh goals
21:33 dukeleto Deprecations as Data is important
21:33 cotto_work GOAL 1: Deprecations as Data (tadzik)
21:33 cotto_work GOAL 2: Merge branches, deal with fallout (all)
21:33 cotto_work GOAL 3: Test aggregation and CI wishlist wiki page - AutomatedHLLTesting (all)
21:33 cotto_work GOAL 4: avoid false test failures
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21:33 mikehh oh ok
21:33 dukeleto cotto_work: sounds good to me
21:33 cotto_work we also need to get the PDS scheduled.  kid51, should I set up the poll?
21:34 whiteknight yes
21:34 mikehh cotto_work:  go for it, can't do any harm
21:34 kid51 cotto_work: Yes
21:34 cotto_work alright
21:34 * kid51 has to focus on $job right now
21:34 cotto_work I guess that's a wrap.
21:35 whiteknight goodbye everybody
21:35 mikehh cu
21:35 tadzik o/
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