Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #parrotsketch, 2011-02-15

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Time Nick Message
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18:26 NotFound What I did:
18:26 NotFound -parrot
18:26 NotFound * minor fixes and testing
18:26 NotFound -winxed
18:27 NotFound * new predefined functions typeof, getstdin, getstdout and getstderr
18:27 NotFound * minor fixes
18:27 NotFound * Created the project winxedxx, a C++ backend for winxed.
18:27 NotFound The idea is to make it capable enough to compile stage 1 and then use it
18:27 NotFound to replace the current stage 0.
18:27 NotFound What I will do:
18:27 NotFound Improve winxedxx and make winxed stage 1 more extension friendly.
18:27 NotFound EOR
19:50 kid51 joined #parrotsketch
19:51 kid51 kid51's report
19:51 kid51 * DONE
19:51 kid51 ** http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/2009: eliminate svn-related code
19:51 kid51 ** http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/2004: cxx option
19:51 kid51 ** http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/2000: MethodEmitter.pm
19:51 kid51 ** http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/1988: PMCEmitter.pm
19:51 kid51 ** cage-cleaning: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/1751
19:52 kid51 ** minor touch-ups and testing
19:52 kid51 ** Parrot Foundation business: reviewed legal drafts
19:52 kid51 ** posted re GSOC
19:52 kid51 * WILL DO
19:52 kid51 ** cage-cleaning: last call for http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/406, http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/1159
19:52 kid51 ** finish http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/1954
19:52 kid51 EOR
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20:17 mikehh What I did since my last report:
20:17 mikehh * building and testing parrot on amd64/i386, with gcc/g++
20:17 mikehh * some fixes
20:17 mikehh * branch testing and fixes
20:17 mikehh * testing Rakudo and Winxed on latest parrot
20:17 mikehh * Released Parrot 3.1.0 "Budgerigar"
20:17 mikehh What I intend to do in the next week:
20:17 mikehh * testing and fixing
20:17 mikehh * work with kid51 to remove make docs and more html cleanup
20:17 mikehh * more testing of gen_gc2 and other branches
20:18 mikehh .eor
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20:19 nwellnhof what i did:
20:19 nwellnhof - not much
20:19 nwellnhof plans:
20:19 nwellnhof - merge unicode_dynpmc branch
20:19 nwellnhof eor
20:20 tcurtis joined #parrotsketch
20:20 cotto_work *did:
20:20 cotto_work - M0 roadmap progress
20:20 cotto_work -- sent out M0 planning notes to people who expressed interest in heling design M0
20:20 cotto_work -- pushed m0-spec branch with draft pdd32 (M0)
20:20 cotto_work -- started putting bytes into it
20:20 cotto_work - profiling runcore progress
20:20 cotto_work -- none
20:21 cotto_work *will do:
20:21 cotto_work - M0 thinking and coordination
20:21 cotto_work - profiling runcore hacking/research
20:21 cotto_work *blockers:
20:21 cotto_work - none
20:21 benabik joined #parrotsketch
20:26 Util No forward progress; all tuits were eaten by server crash (now fixed).
20:26 Util # 7-day ticket report:
20:26 Util 2 closed: done
20:26 Util 8 closed: fixed
20:26 Util 2 closed: invalid
20:26 Util 13 new
20:26 Util 1 reopened
20:26 Util .end
20:26 tcurtis Wednesday before last, my laptop's screen started working, so that was a blocker until I got a monitor this weekend. Hopefully will find tree-optimization tuits this weekend.
20:27 cotto_work *started*?
20:27 tcurtis s/started/stopped/
20:28 whiteknight joined #parrotsketch
20:29 cotto_work Hello
20:30 whiteknight hello
20:30 kid51 Good afternoon
20:31 Util Hello
20:32 cotto_work How this week's goals go?
20:32 cotto_work tt count definitely didn't drop
20:32 cotto_work mikehh: Did you have any issues with the release?
20:33 whiteknight what were the goals for last week? The link in /topic is woefully out of date
20:33 cotto_work GOAL 1: close 23 tickets by next #ps (get total down to <=500)
20:33 cotto_work GOAL 2: monitor progress of Rakudo's needs (speed, gc, profiling, newPOST, serialization)
20:33 cotto_work GOAL 3: no merges after Saturday in preparation for 3.1
20:33 cotto_work GOAL 4: test HLLs after Saturday, fix bugs as needed
20:33 whiteknight well, we certainly didn't merge anything
20:34 whiteknight or, we didn't keep anything merged
20:34 cotto_work heh
20:34 dukeleto joined #parrotsketch
20:34 dukeleto hello
20:35 cotto_work Did anyone test some HLLs over the weekend?
20:35 whiteknight I tested NQP and a few other projects. Not HLLs
20:36 mikehh I tested rakudo and winxed
20:36 cotto_work mikehh: were there any wrinkles in the release process we could smooth out?
20:37 mikehh in terms of the release, I ssh into the site but could not use scp, eventually used sftp
20:38 NotFound Hola
20:38 mikehh when I used scp it kept asking for the password
20:38 cotto_work sounds like it might be using a different key, though I don't know why it'd be doing that
20:38 mikehh so that did not work for me
20:38 dukeleto mikehh: you need to use ssh-agent
20:39 mikehh possibly
20:39 mikehh but anyway sftp worked fine
20:39 mikehh then I went back into ssh to run the script
20:40 cotto_work mikehh: if you figure out what the problem was, please add it to the release manager guide in case someone else runs into it
20:41 mikehh will do, I also want to add list addresses to the guide
20:41 cotto_work good idea
20:42 cotto_work any other thoughts before we move to questions?
20:42 kid51 I have one thought on the release process.
20:42 cotto_work or any question queuing?
20:42 cotto_work kid51: go ahead
20:42 mikehh btw ../parrot tools/release/crow.pir did not work - complained about non-ascii text in NEWS
20:42 cotto_work plobsing++
20:43 dukeleto we need tests for crow.pir or we should just rm it
20:43 kid51 We all (well, not me, but ...) got excited at the prospect of merging generational_gc into master before this release.
20:43 mikehh tests, and more tests
20:43 cotto_work dukeleto: I like that idea.  It's not reliable as is.
20:43 kid51 And I think that excitement led us to overlook the fact that code that touches so many fundamental things can simply not be rushed
20:44 cotto_work kid51: the decision to merge was definitely premature.
20:44 kid51 I think that branches which are as profound as gen_gc really need signoff from the Architect first
20:44 cotto_work It was also made in a bit of a vacuum late at night.
20:44 kid51 Actually, if we had the role of pumpking, it would have been the pumpking's job.
20:44 mikehh kid51: yes that was my fault, did not consider all the implications, however...
20:45 dukeleto kid51: we don't have a pumpking, tho
20:45 mikehh I still think we should have included it
20:45 kid51 mikehh: Well, then I think you have a more expansive concept of the Release Manager's role than I do.
20:45 kid51 I would not have wanted to make that call one way or the other.
20:46 mikehh full speed ahead and damn the torpedoes
20:46 kid51 But then again, I have yet to serve as RM :-)
20:46 mikehh or whatever, I had been testing with bacek and rakudo and others passed, so I thought we should go ahead
20:46 dukeleto We made the right decision to hold off on gen_gc
20:46 dukeleto It needs polish.
20:46 kid51 mikehh: For most branches, that would be correct.
20:47 cotto_work Yes.
20:47 kid51 But certain things we do have a much more profound effect than others.
20:47 cotto_work a major subsystem rewrite like that shouldn't go in so close to a release
20:47 mikehh yes, but I certainly don't want to wait nuntil 3.3 or 3.6
20:48 cotto_work mikehh: we won't have to, one way or another
20:48 dukeleto I don't think there is much to talk about. We realized something was merged prematurely and unmerged it.
20:48 kid51 mikehh:  I think there are pitfalls in the "I don't want to wait until release x.x" approach
20:49 mikehh kid51: probably, but I think we seriously need to look at our current deprecation policy
20:49 kid51 mikehh: I'm sure we'll have a looooong discussion about deprecation policy in this and later meetings
20:49 kid51 That's not the issue here.
20:49 cotto_work mikehh: I suspect whiteknight will have some thoughts there too.  Let's move on to questions since this is wandering away from release discussion.
20:49 mikehh We have one, just one, major customer and a few peripherals
20:50 mikehh 'k
20:50 cotto_work I had a couple:
20:50 cotto_work 1) I'd like to nominate atrodo for a commit bit?
20:50 mikehh +1
20:50 NotFound +1
20:50 kid51 Yes.  CLA received.
20:51 dukeleto +1 for a bit for atrodo
20:51 kid51 Is atrodo working on any particular team?
20:51 cotto_work kid51: he's helping with the m0 spec.
20:51 dukeleto kid51: he is helping with M0/Lorito stuff
20:52 kid51 Excellent!  I really want to see new committers integrated into functioning teams.
20:52 cotto_work Would anyone like to volunteer to mentor him?
20:52 mikehh cotto_work: I can help, but it really should be you
20:53 dukeleto cotto_work: i nominate you :)
20:53 Util +1 for a bit for atrodo
20:53 cotto_work It's settled then.  Looks like cotto will do it.
20:53 dukeleto shall I add him to the developer team on Github now?
20:53 cotto_work dukeleto: sure
20:53 cotto_work q2:
20:53 cotto_work As mentioned on parrot-dev, I propose the following solution to getting gen_gc merged and tested while sticking with our deprection policy:
20:53 cotto_work gen_gc gets merged now and is made the default, except for in the 3.2 and 3.3 releases.  There, we have a configure-time option that selects the gc and defaults to gc_ms2.
20:53 cotto_work This lets us make sure that Rakudo gets a shiny fast gc but that languages that aren't ready won't have to bother until 3.6.
20:53 cotto_work Thoughts?
20:53 atrodo (Hurray!  Thanks)
20:54 cotto_work atrodo: welcome to commit bit having.
20:54 kid51 cotto_work: Before we discuss that ... wasn't there another commit bit to be decided
20:54 kid51 hackbinary?
20:54 cotto_work kid51: I wasn't aware.
20:54 whiteknight q1q
20:54 kid51 Sorry, he submitted a CLA to parrot foundation legal list
20:55 kid51 ... which you wouldn't have seen.
20:55 cotto_work kid51: are you nominating him/
20:55 cotto_work ?
20:55 mikehh ok that was my question
20:55 whiteknight that's my 1q
20:55 whiteknight I would like to nominate Hackbinary for a bit
20:55 whiteknight he's been working on docs and things
20:55 kid51 CLA received; is he working on some team?
20:55 NotFound +1
20:55 dukeleto i am +1 for hackbinary to get a bit
20:56 mikehh I can mentor there
20:56 mikehh and +1
20:56 whiteknight kid51: no team affiliation that I am aware of
20:56 kid51 No objection here.
20:56 cotto_work wfm.  let's get him a commit bit
20:57 kid51 k
20:57 whiteknight awesome
20:57 kid51 q1q
20:57 cotto_work Let's go back to my gen_gc question then.
20:57 dukeleto atrodo++ and hackbinary++ now have Github commit bits
20:58 Coke cotto_work: I disagree that we should change the default /just for the release/ (catching up)
20:58 dukeleto atrodo: welcome, use your bit for good, and don't break stuff :)
20:58 Coke then we end up with a release with untested code.
20:58 atrodo Drat, I was hoping no one would tell me that
20:58 cotto_work dukeleto: I was supposed to say that.
20:58 dukeleto Coke: explain more, please.
20:58 cotto_work ;)
20:58 dukeleto cotto_work: you can tell hackbinary ;)
20:59 cotto_work Coke: I thought about that, but gc_ms2 has been well-tested already.
20:59 Coke most of our smoke/tinder is checking defaults only. switch the default just for the release, boom, our customers get the untested version.
20:59 Coke why not just leave it the default all the time until we're ready to ship it as the default?
21:00 Coke er, first it = old gc, second it = new gc.
21:00 * kid51 notes that there are currently *4* different branches with 'ms2' in their names
21:00 Coke rakudo is smart enough to add a flag to the config if necessary.
21:00 cotto_work because gen_gc needs as much testing as we can throw at it
21:00 Coke so make it the default always.
21:00 nwellnhof imo gen_gc needs a lot more testing than ms2
21:00 Coke or leave it as an option and improve the testing options, if you're not willing to cut a release with it that way.
21:01 nwellnhof and it's really hard to get testers for something that's not in master
21:01 Coke but switching the defaults just before the release is, IMO, not a good idea.
21:01 Coke nwellnhof: this is going to be in master. the question is if it required passing more info to Configure.pl
21:01 nwellnhof Coke: it it's enabled in the default config that doesn't help much
21:02 nwellnhof s/it's/it's not/
21:02 mikehh we have just released, we have a month of testing until the next release
21:03 Coke if the issue is we can't put it in as the default until the next core release, then oh well. it's in there now, and we have N releases to improve the testing so that we get folks testing the alternate core.
21:03 Coke then right after the next supported release, we change the default. Everyone who cares (rakudo) will be using it all along.
21:04 Coke and they don't have to change anything after that release, because explicitly specifying the default is fine.
21:04 * kid51 also notes that there are *12* different 'gc' branches in github right now; difficult to wrap one's brain around
21:05 cotto_work I'd much rather have gen_gc be the non-release default.  We don't gain anything by continuing to test and develop against gc_ms2.
21:05 mikehh never mind branches, gc itself can be difficult to wrap one's brain around
21:05 dukeleto Coke: "most of our smoke/tinder is checking defaults only" isn't a good argument. We have smokers that test many Configure.pl combinations
21:05 nwellnhof gen_gc should be the default at least for the next 2-3 weeks. then we can evaluate again.
21:05 whiteknight I like that idea
21:05 whiteknight if we switch it back, we still have a week of testing with ms2 before 3.2
21:06 cotto_work That sounds acceptable, though we should make sure that the Configure.pl code for picking the default gc is in place and solid before then.
21:06 nwellnhof that shouldn't be a problem
21:06 cotto_work (I know that bacek++ added some but haven't had a chance to look at it yet.)
21:07 cotto_work any objections to making gen_gc the default for the next 2-3 weeks and revisiting at that time?
21:08 mikehh I am happy with that, as long as we revisit
21:08 cotto_work ok.  Does anyone want to volunteer to make sure we don't forget to revisit?
21:09 mikehh I kind of like to forget that
21:09 kid51 cotto_work: Post a deadline for that reconsideration to parrot-dev.  (You'll be making all the executive decisions anyway ;-) )
21:10 mikehh I'll put it in my #ps notes file
21:11 cotto_work wfm
21:11 Coke -1 from me on the plan.
21:11 cotto_work Coke: what's your objection?
21:12 Coke I already explained it. if we not comfortable making it the default for the release, I don't think it should be the default on master. Our testing infrastructure, as dukeleto mentions, should be able to handle checking the non-default also, whatever it is.
21:13 Coke so there's no reason to /switch/ gen_gc2 to being the default.
21:13 cotto_work Our tools are flexible but our developers are lazy.
21:13 mikehh we already have it working with rakudo, winxed and lua, any other HLL's can be looked at
21:13 cotto_work (or they should be)
21:13 Coke but, I realize I'm outvoted. back to $dayjob and trying to fix partcl from months of breakage.
21:14 mikehh Coke: if you give me some pointers, I can maybe help there
21:14 nwellnhof we don't have to decide now if we're comfortable with gen_gc for 3.2. i think in 2 weeks we have a much clearer picture.
21:14 cotto_work nwellnhof: agreed.  We'll revisit it then.
21:15 cotto_work kid51: what was your question?
21:15 kid51 As I pre-posted, we're at the point in the year where the GSOC-2011 process is starting.
21:16 kid51 Spoke with dukeleto, who has served as joint "organization admin" for both Perl Foundation and Parrot Foundation for > 1 year.
21:16 mikehh yeah, that depends on where dukeleto stands
21:16 kid51 He notes that serving in that role for both projects is very time consuming
21:16 kid51 So this leads me to suggest that we have a distinct org-admin this year.
21:17 mikehh perl has a much bigger community
21:17 kid51 TPF president really values dukeleto's work but acknowledges that it is a lot of work
21:17 whiteknight is it going to be less time consuming to do it for only Parrot?
21:17 whiteknight I suspect much of the overhead is the same whether we're organizing a big or a small group
21:17 kid51 dukeleto: Are you there?  Can you speak to that?
21:18 * dukeleto is here, occasionally
21:19 dukeleto the time consuming part is being the admin of two semi-related umbrella organizations
21:19 dukeleto i think the question I want to put to a #ps vote is: Do we want to be our own organization in GSoC/GCI from now on?
21:19 whiteknight dukeleto: if we broke off and were our own organizations and had our own org admin, would that be better from that perspective?
21:20 dukeleto whiteknight: yes, i think it is finally time that we broke off from TPF
21:20 dukeleto whiteknight: this will require you, as treasurer, to do some paperwork for Google to pay PaFo
21:20 whiteknight can we be in GSoC if we aren't 501(c)(3)?
21:20 whiteknight I'm fine with paperwork
21:21 dukeleto whiteknight: TPF does not seem motivated to get money from Google. I assume we will be much more so.
21:21 dukeleto whiteknight: yes, they don't have a requirement to be a non-profit
21:21 whiteknight okay
21:21 Coke are we owed $$ from TPF?
21:21 mikehh it would be nice if we can get some funding
21:21 whiteknight we aren't 501(c)(3) yet. funding is ...tricky
21:21 dukeleto Coke: yes, we have not receieved any money from Google that we should have in the last 3 years probably
21:22 dukeleto Coke: because TPF either didn't submit the paperwork, or it never trickles down to us, also because PaFo is in legal limbo right now
21:22 dukeleto Coke: but when PaFo is legal again, we should ask TPF for some money that Google gives organizations each year
21:23 dukeleto Google gives each org $500/each per GSoC/GCI, iirc
21:23 dukeleto so in theory, we should be splitting that with TPF
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21:23 dukeleto for the last 3 years or so, but we never saw any
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21:23 whiteknight I suspect the split would not be 50/50, but that's a matter that would have to be negotiated
21:24 dukeleto whiteknight: why not? Parrot had about half the slots in the last 2 years of GSoC
21:25 whiteknight we would have to talk to TPF about it
21:25 whiteknight dukeleto: are you planning to be an org admin this year? if so, for which foundation?
21:25 cotto_work I'm fine with PaFo being its own org, but it also doesn't mean more (or less) work for me.  It depends on who's doing the work.
21:26 whiteknight that's what I'm getting at
21:26 dukeleto I am fine with being the org admin for Parrot this year.
21:26 kid51 A lot of this discussion will be at the TPF-PaFo level, so we don't have to iron out every detail in this meeting
21:26 mikehh +1
21:27 dukeleto I haven't decided what to do about TPF, and will need to talk to them about it.
21:27 cotto_work +1 then
21:27 Coke +1 for applying separately, assuming we're sticking with PaFo and not going to eventually umbrella under another org anyway.
21:27 whiteknight we should probably get in touch with Google and assess our chances of being accepted. I think our chances are high, but I would hate to be left out on some technicality
21:27 Coke (umbrella not in a gsoc context)
21:27 dukeleto Coke: no, i plan to make PaFo it's own GSoC organization
21:28 dukeleto whiteknight: there is no "getting in touch with google". Our chances are high, since we have a proven track record.
21:28 Coke dukeleto: ... I mean outside of the gsoc context.
21:28 whiteknight dukeleto: it never hurts to send out an email and get more information
21:28 Coke if there is going to be no distinct legal pafo entity in a year, we might as well not go solo for gsoc.
21:28 dukeleto Coke: that is a whole other bucket of worms
21:28 whiteknight we are a legal entity, just not a tax-exempt one
21:28 Coke Yes, I know.
21:29 dukeleto Coke: that remains to be seen, and I don't think we are leaning in that direction.
21:29 Coke there was talk amongst the last directors which extended to the current board about closing up shop on pafo entirely.
21:29 Coke (for whiteknight)
21:29 Coke dukeleto: ok. if that's not the current leaning, no point in worrying about it for gsoc. danke.
21:29 dukeleto whiteknight: more info about what? What would I actually ask them? You can't ask "will you accept us this year" ?
21:30 whiteknight dukeleto: it's not a big deal. I'm not trying to start a fight over it
21:30 dukeleto Coke: only one person has ever mentioned closing shop on PaFo, allison, and I don't think we are leaning in that direction
21:30 whiteknight okay, /me has to pack up and catch a train. Later
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21:31 dukeleto whiteknight: see you on the flip side
21:31 dukeleto so we will be our own GSoC org. Next question?
21:32 cotto_work I don't think any were queued, though that's not a necessity.
21:32 dukeleto I would like to see Parrot developers talk about which conferences we would like people to give talks at, so that we get the word out about Parrot.
21:33 dukeleto we have devs all around the world, we can easily get talks submitted all over the place
21:33 cotto_work Good question.  I've been looking at conferences and trying to pick the best ones to attend, but I'd like to hear what other people think.
21:33 dukeleto as community manager, I don't think we are effectively telling and showing people why they should be interested in Parrot.
21:34 cotto_work I've got YAPC::NA, YAPC::EU, OSCON and LinuxConf NW (and possibly another I'm forgetting) planned so far.
21:35 cotto_work OS Bridge too
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21:35 allison dukeleto: it wasn't just me, that was the general consensus of all the previous directors except particle
21:35 allison dukeleto: but, we decided to give a fresh bunch a chance first
21:36 dukeleto allison: sounds good to me, thanks for the correction
21:37 * dukeleto is planning on YAPC::NA, LinuxFest NW, YAPC::EU, OSBridge, OSCON, PGCON
21:37 cotto_work It'd be great to see other Parrot hackers at some of those, even if they're not speaking.
21:37 cotto_work and Rakudo
21:37 dukeleto yes, i will organize some kind of hackathons to whichever confs I go to
21:38 atrodo Having a talk or two at a python or ruby specific conference would probably be a good idea
21:38 dukeleto atrodo: are you volunteering? ;)
21:38 Tene q1q
21:38 cotto_work atrodo: which would you suggest?  Not being part of either community, I don't know which confs would be worthwhile.
21:38 atrodo Depends on the costs involved ;)
21:38 dukeleto PyCon is having a virtual machine workshop or something this year, and all parrot devs are invited to go. I cc'ed parrot-dev a few weeks ago
21:38 atrodo cotto_work> Me either, I'm a perl guy
21:39 cotto_work Tene: go ahead.
21:41 Coke dukeleto: allison brought it up first, but she was not the only person who was considering it as an option.
21:42 Coke (developers @ cons) - if we had funding to send people to cons, we'd probably get more interest.
21:42 Coke (me is catching up again)
21:42 Coke back in realtime.
21:43 Tene sorry, work interrupted.
21:43 Tene back now
21:43 cotto_work wb
21:43 Tene Cardinal was recently brought under the parrot organization on github.
21:44 Tene I want to know exactly what that means for grant commit privileges to people who haven't submitted parrot CLAs.
21:44 Tene If I want to let anyone work on Cardinal, do I have to continue to maintain a repo outside of the parrot org?
21:44 dukeleto Tene: i think we only require CLA's for parrot.git right now, but that is a good question.
21:44 Coke I would /imagine/ that anything in the parrot org on github should have to follow parrot CLA rules.
21:45 dukeleto Coke: yes, but we haven't been explicit about that.
21:45 Coke as long as we're explicit either way.
21:45 cotto_work dukeleto: +1
21:45 Tene I haven't actually explored github yet to find out how any of that works.
21:46 dukeleto Tene: currently, everyone that is a developer in the Github org has a commit bit to all parrot projects on github
21:46 Tene If we actually want to encourage offering languages to be hosted under the parrot org umbrella whatever, I would not want to require that they all fall under parrot CLA requirements.
21:46 Coke if project-in-organization means anyone with access to parrot/parrot can access the others (and vice versa) that's an issue.
21:46 dukeleto Tene: can you send a quick note about your question to parrot-dev ? I would like to get feedback from people that are not here.
21:46 Tene Yeah, that's what I was worried about.
21:46 Tene Can we change that?  I have no idea how github is organized.
21:46 dukeleto we can easily seperate out our commit bits, and have a team for parrot.git bits and then a team for HLL bits
21:46 Tene dukeleto: I can.
21:47 dukeleto each github org can have N teams
21:47 Tene I'm done with my question.
21:47 dukeleto each team can be granted pull only, push+ pull or admin rights to the repos that team contains
21:48 Tene So we can make a no-cla parrot team that can have commit privs to non-cla-required repos?
21:48 Tene like cardinal?
21:48 Tene or should I make a cardinal team, or...
21:48 Tene I guess take it to the list.
21:49 Tene dukeleto: one other question... I think it was you that wanted to import it into the parrot org?  Do you remember why you wanted that?
21:49 * kid51 at $job
21:49 Tene What's the purpose or benefit to Parrot to have other languages hosted under the parrot organization?  Permit easy access for parrot devs to fix problems with hlls?
21:50 mikehh that would have been my thought
21:50 dukeleto Tene: yes, mostly that many people have commit bits to the parrot org, more people to fix stuff
21:51 dukeleto Tene: also, easier to manage stuff like post-recieve hooks to notify us on IRC when cardinal commits happen, etc
21:51 dukeleto Tene: i would say we should rename our current "Developer" team to "Core Developers" which have bits to parrot.git and then make a "HLL developers" team with bits to everything that is not in core
21:52 Tene Okay, yes, if we want that to happen, allowing non-cla committers is a requirement.
21:52 dukeleto but, for instance, tree-optimization and plumage. Do people need CLA's for those?
21:52 dukeleto we can hash all this out on parrot-dev
21:53 Tene actually, I really need to get back to $job, can someone else mail about this?
21:55 kid51 left #parrotsketch
21:58 dukeleto sure, I will send an email
21:59 cotto_work Thanks.  Are there any other questions or comments before we call it a wrap?
22:01 cotto_work That's wrap.
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22:02 tadzik so, what are the goals for this week?
22:02 tadzik ah
22:02 cotto_work tadzik: good point.  I forgot those.
22:03 tadzik just when I have a free week to do something :)
22:03 cotto_work though I only have merging gen_gc and ensuring that configure-time default gc selection works
22:03 tadzik any further plans for DaD? dukeleto?
22:05 dukeleto tadzik: we can add more DaD tools
22:05 dukeleto tadzik: a web interface would be nice
22:06 cotto_work that'd be quite nice
22:06 tadzik I can do something about this
22:06 tadzik what kind of web interface do we want?
22:09 dukeleto tadzik: let's move this over to #parrot
22:09 tadzik sure thing
22:09 dukeleto did we wrap this meeting? Do we have goals?
22:10 cotto_work just merging gen_gc
22:11 dukeleto cotto_work: that is going to take 1 person about 5 seconds
22:11 cotto_work yes
22:11 dukeleto cotto_work: extensively testing it, that is another story
22:11 cotto_work that's important too
22:12 dukeleto ok, wrap it up, Danno.
22:12 * dukeleto goes back to #parrot
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