Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #parrotsketch, 2011-02-22

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Time Nick Message
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17:12 tadzik I may be a bit late for #ps, so here'a pre-report.
17:12 tadzik DONE: * fixed a few tests in Cardinal
17:13 tadzik * moved cardinal from PGE to NQP-rx: doesn't work, does compile, pushed to a branch
17:15 tadzik * though with cotto++ about deprecations detection with regexes. Something turned out broken, didn't manage to fix it yet. On Github: https://github.com/tadzik/parrot-deprecation-detector
17:16 tadzik * Converted Close repo to git, fixed a few compilation errors. Contacted Austin asking for interest and assistance, no response yet
17:17 tadzik * Poked there and around looking to move LOLCODE and Punie to Nqp-rx too, LOLCODE's almost ready, will need to consult pmichaud or someone about writing PIR methods for P6 grammars
17:17 tadzik PLANS: Unspecified, preferably move DaD another step forward with automated deprecations detection
17:17 tadzik EOR
17:18 tadzik (I'll try to be less than an hour late for the actual #ps)
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19:44 kid51 kid51's report
19:44 kid51 ** Will not be at #ps today as will be en route to SLFC office for PaFo conference call
19:44 kid51 * DONE
19:44 kid51 ** Devised test needed to close http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/692 (PBC to PIR fallback); closed.
19:44 kid51 ** Completed work on http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/1954 (no more 'make docs'); closed.
19:44 kid51 ** Cage-cleaning: reviewed status of approx. 30 tickets; sought comment from others; approx. 18 of these have been closed.
19:44 kid51 ** No Trac ticket now carries a 'last modified' date greater than 21 months.
19:44 kid51 * DOING/WILL DO
19:45 kid51 ** Seeking final comments on http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/1049 (correct hack in Makefile); intend to commit within 24 hours.
19:45 kid51 ** Seeking final comments on http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/1159 (make distcheck); intend to kill within 24 hours.
19:45 kid51 ** Will close http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/612 (pdd13).
19:45 kid51 * REQUEST
19:45 kid51 ** If you respond to a Trac ticket I (or anyone else) opens, please tailor your response to the Description.
19:45 kid51 ** Please don't try to enlarge the scope in a way that diverts people's focus away from the Description.  (That happened to me twice in one ticket this week.)
19:45 kid51 ** Please post on parrot-dev if you want to discuss a larger, broader issue suggested by the ticket.
19:45 kid51 ** A focused scope makes a Trac ticket easier to understand and resolve.
19:45 kid51 ** Thanks from the Cage-Cleaners!
19:45 kid51 EOR
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19:48 NotFound What I did:
19:48 NotFound -parrot
19:48 NotFound * improve code covergae a bit
19:48 NotFound -winxed
19:48 NotFound * minor fixes, refactors and cleaning
19:48 NotFound * new predefs replace and push
19:48 NotFound * Worked on winxedxx. The goal of being able to compile stage 1 may be hard
19:48 NotFound to acomplish due to inhability to compile coroutines and other features,
19:48 NotFound tweaking the stage 1 source to allow it will be defeating the purpose
19:48 NotFound of improving the bootstrarp process, so the future of this project
19:48 NotFound is unclear.
19:48 NotFound What I will do:
19:48 NotFound No plan.
19:48 NotFound EOR
19:54 Tene The past week, I've been supporting and planning the new work on Cardinal.  We still need some infrastructure changes, and I don't seem to have admin privs on github.com/parrot/cardinal/, which I'd like to get fixed.
19:54 Tene Github can't migrate the issues and wiki individually, but can migrate entire repos, so we may just want to delete github.com/parrot/cardinal and have github move it over.
19:55 Tene I don't know what github privs I'll need for that, or who to coordinate with.  I assume dukeleto.
19:55 Tene I also started experimenting with implementing a ruby object model on top of 6model, and mostly failed.  I'm planning to work with jnthn to find out what I need to do differently.
19:56 Tene WOR
19:56 Tene EOR
20:14 atrodo .did:
20:14 atrodo * Got a parrot commit bit
20:14 atrodo * m0-spec speculation
20:14 atrodo * Little bit of lorito hacking
20:14 atrodo .todo:
20:14 atrodo * More lorito/m0-spec hacking
20:14 atrodo * Going to try and tweak isparrotfastyet with suggestions by bacek++
20:14 atrodo .end
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20:17 bacek Done:
20:17 bacek * gen_gc2 cleaned and merged.
20:17 bacek * Start opsc_full_parse branch for semantically parse of ops.
20:17 bacek * Parsing is done.
20:17 bacek Will do:
20:17 bacek * Continue work on opsc_full_parse branch
20:17 bacek * Generate PAST tree
20:18 bacek * Emit C code for new PAST tree
20:18 bacek * (optional) Thinking about implementing JIT on top of it.
20:18 bacek * Tuning the Moon in GenGC. Out of ideas for now how to do it.
20:18 bacek EOR
20:21 mikehh What I did since my last report:
20:21 mikehh * building and testing parrot on amd64/i386, with gcc/g++
20:21 mikehh * some fixes
20:21 mikehh * branch testing and fixes
20:21 mikehh What I intend to do in the next week:
20:21 mikehh * testing and fixing
20:21 mikehh .eor
20:22 cotto_work *did:
20:22 cotto_work - knocked out a handful of tickets, kid51++ for agitating
20:22 cotto_work - code review, feedback
20:22 cotto_work - M0 roadmap progress
20:22 cotto_work -- chatted with dukeleto about a wide variety of M0 questions
20:22 cotto_work -- will verify that pdd32 addresses them tonight
20:22 cotto_work -- thought about things
20:22 cotto_work - profiling runcore progress
20:22 cotto_work -- none
20:22 cotto_work *will do:
20:22 cotto_work - M0 thinking and coordination, find remaining holes, do some experimenting
20:22 cotto_work - profiling runcore hacking/research
20:22 cotto_work *blockers:
20:22 cotto_work - none
20:22 cotto_work *eor
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20:27 Util # 7-day ticket report:
20:27 Util 18 closed: fixed
20:27 Util 2 closed: invalid
20:27 Util 5 closed: wontfix
20:27 Util 13 new
20:27 Util .end
20:27 plobsing What I Did: * ptrbuf branch: implement better pointer/buffer/struct handling types
20:27 plobsing What I Plan: * finish up and merge ptrbuf * small improvements * act on deprecations
20:27 plobsing not as planed :(
20:28 plobsing What I Did:
20:28 dukeleto joined #parrotsketch
20:28 plobsing * ptrbuf branch: implement better pointer/buffer/struct handling types
20:28 plobsing What I Plan:
20:28 plobsing * finish up and merge ptrbuf
20:28 plobsing * small improvements
20:28 plobsing * act on deprecations
20:28 plobsing EOR
20:31 cotto_work hello
20:31 Util Hello
20:31 mikehh Hi there
20:32 NotFound Hola
20:32 atrodo Hello
20:32 tewk joined #parrotsketch
20:32 plobsing o/
20:33 Coke
20:34 cotto_work How've we done since the last #ps?  I forgot to get a list of goal, but general thoughts are welcome.
20:34 cotto_work *goals
20:35 mikehh well gen_gc got merged and some other stuff
20:35 mikehh and ticket work
20:35 cotto_work any thoughts on that process?  It didn't seem too disruprive
20:36 bacek ~~
20:36 dukeleto howdy
20:37 cotto_work I guess not.  Does anyone have suggestions for goal for the coming week?
20:37 mikehh the main disruptions I noticed were trying to get gerd's json stuff working
20:38 cotto_work mikehh: yes.  I talked with him and he'll be working in a branch.  I encourage anyone with tuits to take a look at it once he pushes.
20:39 dukeleto testing the Select PMC might make a good goal
20:39 NotFound I suggest to anyone addding/removing/modifying modules a generous usage of git status after a realclean
20:39 dukeleto NotFound++
20:39 dukeleto NotFound: do we need to say that in git_workflow.pod somewhere?
20:39 NotFound dukeleto: not a bad idea
20:40 dukeleto Tene: privmsg me and we will get your commit bits for parrot/cardinal figured out
20:40 Tene dukeleto: I have commit privs; just not admin
20:40 Tene but, ok
20:41 NotFound I think admin privs are for projects, not for repos.
20:43 dukeleto Tene: yes, that is what I meant
20:43 NotFound 'Organization' seems to be the github lingo.
20:43 cotto_work I don't see any questions queued.  Does anyone have a point they'd like to raise?
20:43 NotFound q1q
20:44 dukeleto q1q
20:44 cotto_work NotFound: go ahead
20:44 NotFound Should we put the perlre module out of the main repo?
20:44 dukeleto NotFound: please explain
20:44 cotto_work NotFound: you mean pcre?
20:44 NotFound That is, pcre.
20:45 NotFound It seems to not ne used by anything in the build or other core moduels.
20:45 bacek +1 to remove it
20:46 cotto_work Sounds like a potentially good idea.  Are there any volunteers to make a branch?
20:46 mikehh is it used anywhere, or is it a holdover to the way it was?
20:47 NotFound The only problems reported for years had been only for it failing tests. So it looks like no one in the world cares.
20:47 dukeleto +1 for removal
20:47 mikehh and on that note how many other holdovers do we have?
20:48 cotto_work mikehh: probably a discouraging number
20:48 NotFound Probably, but this one is periodically annoying someone.
20:48 cotto_work NotFound: exactly.  We can rip them out as they get in the way.
20:49 cotto_work (or look into ripping them out
20:49 cotto_work )
20:50 mikehh +1 then
20:51 cotto_work NotFound: eoq?
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20:51 NotFound cotto_work: aye
20:51 cotto_work dukeleto: go ahead
20:52 cotto_work actually, was there a volunteer to start a branch?
20:52 NotFound I can give it a try, if no one wants.
20:52 dukeleto GSoC: We need a plan, mentors, and some good proposal ideas on our wiki page.
20:52 tewk (with-continuation-mark
20:52 whiteknight <--mentor, volunteer for whatever else
20:53 mikehh me too
20:53 cotto_work <- probably a mentor, depending on how sparse my free time looks to be as gsoc approaches
20:54 mikehh as always I am happy to do testing and mentor for codetests and such
20:55 cotto_work I'll do my best to make sure that M0 is a good foundation for a gsoc project in time.
20:56 mikehh I think that a possible different threading approach ala plan9 or something is a good task
20:58 cotto_work We had a threading project last year that never got merged.
20:58 mikehh probably because our unserlying threding system is broke
20:59 mikehh underlying
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21:00 mikehh and yes concurrency does not seem to be high on our priority list
21:00 cotto_work I'm thinking about how to make it possible in M0, but I don't expect threading implementation on top of it for a while.
21:02 cotto_work Any other ideas?
21:03 NotFound Improve LWP, add https protocol.
21:03 Coke ideas for.. .this week? or gsoc?
21:03 NotFound gsoc
21:03 bacek NotFound, we need openssl/gnutls bindings for this
21:03 Tene mikehh: We've had tickets in trac for over a year to fix issues with our threading that I couldn't get anyone from parrot to actually look at and comment on
21:04 Tene mikehh: So, "threading is now on the priorities of most parrot devs" is definitely true.
21:04 cotto_work Coke: either
21:05 mikehh Tene: just been having problems in testing with it a lot recently, so yes
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21:05 Tene mikehh: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/757
21:10 cotto_work It appears that the meeting is winding down.  Are there any further questions?
21:10 Coke anything to make progress on partcl tickets would be appreciated.
21:11 cotto_work http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/report/16 is the report for those tickets
21:12 mikehh *goals for this week?
21:12 mikehh Tene: will try and work on it
21:13 cotto_work mikehh: I'm open to suggestions.
21:13 dukeleto GOAL 1: Code review and test the Select PMC by tewk++
21:13 Tene mikehh: whiteknight wants to rip out the threading system and thinks that the current threading system is horribly misguided, so you may want to discuss with him before investing work on threading
21:13 cotto_work It seems to be failing a test atm.
21:14 mikehh Tene: whick is why I suggested a possible Plan9 approach
21:15 lucian_ mikehh: you mean erlang approach :)
21:16 lucian_ is now known as lucian
21:16 lucian i've said this before, low-level threads with locks are necessary for implementing many higher level constructs
21:16 plobsing lucian: the plan9 guys seem to think they have something erlang doesn't. or at least their marketing material suggests as much.
21:16 lucian plobsing: yes, but i disagree. of course, i'm not an expert
21:17 lucian plobsing: take from my comment that it should be investigated more thoroughly, and in parallel with similar developments actually used in production
21:17 mikehh (with apologies to NotFound), look at golang.org and their approach
21:20 NotFound mikehh: as log as you call it golang, no problem ;)
21:22 mikehh NotFound: yeah, a lot of the Plan9 people are involved there
21:22 NotFound That's one of the reasons of its Issue 9 popularity.
21:24 mikehh as an aside I really liked the way Plan9 was going before the plug was pulled
21:25 tadzik how horribly late am I?
21:25 whiteknight tadzik: 100%
21:25 tadzik damnit. But I expected that
21:26 plobsing any other goal suggestions?
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21:26 Tene tadzik: you got here before kid51 at least ;)
21:27 mikehh btw t/codingstd/pdd_format.t is failing on Version pulls, should we remove that test - Its a bit svn-ish
21:28 tadzik Tene: :)
21:28 mikehh and remove the VERSION from pod
21:30 mikehh or is the Version there something different as in the Version of the pdd?
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21:31 Coke we ended up using the version in $revision$, which wasn't helpful. if we're going to track that, we should have a "last updated" field... and we don't need to put it in the file. We can autogen it when we do "make html".
21:31 Coke Or we can do what the perl6 SYN do and add it in to the doc and manage it manually.
21:32 * kid51 is in meeting
21:34 cotto_work Coke: I like the idea of an automatically added field.
21:37 cotto_work It sounds like #ps is over.  Let's call it a wrap.
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