Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #parrotsketch, 2011-05-24

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
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16:34 kid51 kid51's report
16:34 kid51 * DONE
16:35 kid51 ** Cage-cleaning of 20+ Trac tickets; led to closing of http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/2115 and discussion of others.
16:35 kid51 ** Took and closed http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/2119.
16:35 kid51 ** Almost succeeded in closing http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/540, but Taptinder reported build error on Cygwin64.
16:35 kid51 * DOING
16:35 kid51 ** Looking into http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/1761.  How do I get access to http://parrot.org?
16:35 kid51 ** Drafting presentation for YAPC::NA::2011 in Asheville, Monday, June 27.
16:35 kid51 ** Trying to encourage participation in FOSSCON in Philadelphia, Saturday, July 23.
16:35 kid51 EOR
17:04 atrodo joined #parrotsketch
17:10 cotto_work *did:
17:10 cotto_work - reviewed the Select dynpmc in tewk/select (#2034)
17:10 cotto_work -- summary:
17:10 cotto_work --- not a fan of the interface
17:10 cotto_work --- am willing to update it myself, accept a patch or commit as-is experimentally
17:10 cotto_work --- I'll do something once I get some kind of feedback.
17:11 cotto_work - booked hotel for YAPC::NA
17:11 cotto_work - M0 progress:
17:11 cotto_work -- got a copy of Appel's Compiling with Continuations
17:11 cotto_work --- It's dense and delicious, not unlike granola.
17:11 cotto_work -- wrote some more tests
17:11 cotto_work -- figured out a workable syntax for labels
17:11 cotto_work - GSoC progress:
17:11 cotto_work -- helped soh_cah_toa get a minimal frontend building
17:11 cotto_work -- helped him navigate Parrot's guts
17:11 cotto_work -- the debugger is now known as "hbdb"
17:11 cotto_work *will do:
17:11 cotto_work - get the M0 prototypes as far along as possible by Saturday
17:11 cotto_work - write a bunch of example M0 code and tests
17:11 cotto_work - make a list of questions
17:11 cotto_work - meet with allison, dukeleto and chromatic on Saturday to (hopefully) hammer out the last bits of M0
17:11 cotto_work - help soh_cah_toa as needed
17:11 cotto_work *eor
17:11 cotto_work note: I may miss a subset of #ps today.  dukeleto++ said he'd lead.
17:40 whiteknight WHAT I DID:
17:40 whiteknight * Was without internet access for most of the week.
17:40 whiteknight * Worked on Rosella. The Query, File, String and Memoize libraries, and the REPL. Query and Memoize are now listed as "stable"
17:40 whiteknight * Playing around with my Parrot-in-Xchat plugin. nothing working yet, but less hopeless now than it was.
17:40 whiteknight * Ran callgrind on an unoptimized Parrot building Rakudo's core.pm. 4 hours later, I uploaded the results file to a repo on github for public analysis. I've already found some goodies in it.
17:40 whiteknight * Looked at profiling issues in general. Starting to form a vague idea about what to do with it.
17:40 whiteknight * Finally picked up my Python book and am starting to learn it in earnest.
17:40 whiteknight * GSOC Started! We have 6 active students starting their projects as of yesterday. I'm following along anxiously.
17:40 whiteknight WHAT I WILL DO:
17:41 whiteknight * Looking at profiling, PCC, and optimization opportunities. May run a few benchmarks if I can fix anything.
17:41 whiteknight * Maybe more Rosella, but I've scratched that itch a lot lately.
17:41 whiteknight EOR
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18:26 NotFound What I did:
18:26 NotFound -parrot
18:26 NotFound * Added a --help option to the create_language tool.
18:26 NotFound * Minor fixes.
18:26 NotFound -winxed
18:26 NotFound * Improved compile time scope search.
18:26 NotFound * Put some examples up to date with recent NCI changes.
18:26 NotFound * Mysql example now allows to specify connection encoding.
18:26 NotFound * Created module WinxedGtk to acces Gtk+ via NCI.
18:26 NotFound https://github.com/NotFound/WinxedGtk
18:26 NotFound Written in winxed, but should work from pir and HLLs.
18:26 NotFound What I will do;
18:26 NotFound * Improve WinxedGtk.
18:27 NotFound EOR
18:32 mikehh What I did since my last report:
18:32 mikehh * building and testing parrot on amd64/i386, with gcc/g++
18:32 mikehh * some fixes
18:32 mikehh * building and testing rakudo and winxed against latest parrot
18:32 mikehh * first cut at adding deprecation docs from wiki to docs/deprecations in master
18:32 mikehh as .pod files.  added to html docs as deprecations under developer docs
18:32 mikehh What I intend to do in the next week:
18:32 mikehh * testing and fixing
18:32 mikehh * continue working on deprecation docs as necessary
18:32 mikehh .eor
19:28 benabik DID:
19:28 benabik - got a shiny box from Google
19:28 benabik - blogged: http://parrot.org/content/gsoc-0-schools-out-summer
19:28 benabik - twice:   http://www.parrot.org/content/gsoc-1-your-marks-get-set
19:28 benabik - Converted PAST::Node and children into NQP with Q:PIR
19:28 benabik WILL DO:
19:28 benabik - Convert PAST::Compiler similarly
19:28 benabik - Start replacing Q:PIR with NQP
19:28 benabik - Get work done so far into main repo once bacek looks it over
19:28 benabik EOR
20:01 benabik Just DID:  Booked a room at YAPC::NA
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20:24 Util # Done:
20:24 Util * Adapted and applied patch from bubaflub++ to close TT#1217.
20:24 Util * Realized I had the wrong date for PDS, a full week after the event :(
20:24 Util # Plan to do:
20:24 Util * Write talk for YAPC::NA::2011
20:24 Util * TT#919
20:24 Util # 7-day ticket report:
20:24 Util 11  closed: fixed
20:24 Util 1  closed: invalid
20:25 Util 7  new
20:25 Util 1  reopened
20:25 Util .end
20:27 dukeleto What I did:
20:27 dukeleto * Hacked on parrot embed tests some more
20:27 dukeleto * Talked with some GSoC students
20:28 dukeleto * Got Jitterbug to play nice with Parrot: http://jitterbug.leto.net:3000/
20:28 dukeleto * Hacked on M0 assembler. It generates partially correct bytecode now.
20:28 dukeleto * Merged some pull requests in Cardinal and Parrot.
20:28 dukeleto What I will do:
20:28 dukeleto * Try to get Rakudo to play nice with Parrot
20:28 dukeleto * Figure out all the other things that I am forgetting that I should do.
20:28 dukeleto * Book tickets to YAPC::NA
20:28 dukeleto Blockers:
20:28 dukeleto * EFINITETIME
20:28 dukeleto .EOR
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20:31 dukeleto hola!
20:31 Util Hello
20:31 mikehh hi there
20:32 kid51 hello
20:32 kid51 cotto_work: Are you present?  If not, is dukeleto chairing?
20:34 dukeleto kid51: would you like to chair?
20:34 dukeleto kid51: i was supposed to, but I have unavoidable maintenance/landlord issues
20:34 dukeleto how did we do last week?
20:34 NotFound Hola
20:34 benabik hi
20:34 mikehh moved deprecation stuff to docs/deprecations
20:34 dukeleto i see mikehh++ made progress on putting deprecations in the repo
20:34 kid51 No net improvement in BZ tickets (per util's report)
20:34 dukeleto we need to make sure we update all our documentation to reflect that
20:35 dukeleto BZ tickets?
20:35 dukeleto kid51: also, you email support@osuosl.org and give them your ssh pub key to get access to parrot.org
20:35 cotto_work hi
20:35 kid51 thx
20:36 Util 12 closed vs 8 new-or-reopened
20:36 * dukeleto hands it over to kid51++, but will be here intermittently
20:36 kid51 cotto_work: Do you want to chair?
20:36 cotto_work kid51: sure
20:36 dukeleto kid51: he is at a $work meeting
20:36 dukeleto or not.
20:36 * dukeleto backs away
20:36 cotto_work got back sooner than expected
20:36 dukeleto cotto_work: sounds good. all yours
20:37 cotto_work Our goals were:
20:37 cotto_work GOAL 1: Merge/review Select dynpmc (cotto)
20:37 cotto_work GOAL 2: Contact all GSoC students
20:37 cotto_work GOAL 3: Consolidate deprecations data into api.yaml (mikehh)
20:37 soh_cah_toa joined #parrotsketch
20:37 cotto_work I know that the first one was done.
20:38 dukeleto I have contacted many, but not all gsoc students.
20:38 dukeleto Anybody heard from rohit lately?
20:38 cotto_work Unfortunately we had to disqualify one GSoC student.
20:38 dukeleto I skyped with bubaflub++ and soh_cah_toa++
20:38 cotto_work dukeleto: weekly blog posts from GSoC students are now mandatory, right?
20:39 dukeleto cotto_work: yeps
20:39 cotto_work ok.
20:40 cotto_work I saw some work on deprecations got done by mikehh++
20:40 mikehh Goal3: I placed the wiki documentation in docs/deprecations
20:40 cotto_work mikehh: thanks
20:41 cotto_work q1q
20:41 mikehh not sure about the yaml stuff
20:42 mikehh I also put those docs into make html, but maybe we want to move it, it is under developer at the moment
20:43 dukeleto mikehh: should be fine for now
20:43 dukeleto mikehh: did you get to update the instructions about where deps go, so that people are pointed to edit/create those pod files, instead of wiki pages?
20:43 cotto_work git is good at tracking files when they get moved
20:44 mikehh didn't so much move as copy them (with appropriate changes) but needs checking
20:45 Util q1q
20:45 dukeleto cotto_work: i am talking about documentation
20:45 dukeleto cotto_work: and this stuff moved from outside of git, into git
20:45 cotto_work dukeleto: sure.  I'm just saying that we can move it around later if needed.
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20:46 dukeleto cotto_work: agreed
20:46 dukeleto spinclad: welcome
20:46 cotto_work We should make sure that the docs updates happen.  Having straightforward and accurate deprecation process docs is important.
20:46 dukeleto cotto_work: i would so go far as to say it is essential to the health of parrot
20:47 dukeleto deprecations are what allow parrot to move and improve quickly
20:47 mikehh at the moment it would have to be done manually, I don't see a way to automate it
20:47 dukeleto mikehh: i am confused at what both you and cotto are talking about
20:48 dukeleto perhaps they are not the same thing.
20:48 mikehh I'll try and keep on top of it
20:48 spinclad dukeleto: thank you. (nothing to report, for months now...)
20:48 cotto_work I'm talking about updating the docs that were moved into git to say that git (not the wiki) needs to be udpated.
20:48 cotto_work *updated
20:49 mikehh I woluld say both need to keep in sync
20:50 mikehh if something is added to docs/deprecations, it needs to be added to the wiki and vive versa
20:50 dukeleto mikehh: seems horribly inefficient and just waiting to be out of sink
20:50 dukeleto mikehh: why do we need the trac wiki when we have HTML-formatted POD on Github?
20:50 cotto_work One should be canonical and the other should be automatically synced.
20:50 dukeleto mikehh: why do we want to create more work for ourselves?
20:51 cotto_work (at most.  Alternately, we could have just one source.)
20:51 dukeleto I vote for the POD in our repo to be canonical. All external copies of it are the mirrors.
20:51 cotto_work I'm fine with that.
20:52 dukeleto cotto_work: we could have a www::mech script that updates our trac wiki with the version in our docs/
20:52 cotto_work dukeleto: yes we could
20:52 cotto_work as long as we're smart about keeping credentials out of cvs
20:52 cotto_work *vcs
20:53 dukeleto cotto_work: but i am not writing it, and i think one source is fine for now
20:53 cotto_work dukeleto: Good.  You're overloaded already.  Volunteers are welcome, but until one shows up we'll keep the canonical version in git.
20:53 mikehh I'll look into it if I get some time for it
20:53 NotFound Information is what allows parrot to improve quickly. Lack of deprecation information blocks people when his code need updating.
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20:54 cotto_work mikehh: thank you.
20:55 * lucian is late again. sorry
20:55 mikehh it should move into docs.parrot.org when it gets updated
20:55 cotto_work Are there any other comments on the week's goals before we move to questions?
20:56 cotto_work I guess not.
20:56 cotto_work y question: It's becoming clear that our trac setup is making it difficult for people outside of Parrot to submit tickets (among other things).  Can we have a volunteer to look into alternative ways of preventing trac spam that will allow humans to continue posting bug reports?
20:56 cotto_work *my
20:58 Util Just use parrotbug?
20:58 cotto_work except that parrotbug doesn't actually post bugs
20:58 mikehh whatis to prevent spam coming in from there?
20:59 kid51 Some data:  Rarely a day goes by when a bot creates a Trac user account.  But because we deleted the 'auth' status, that account -- or any valid new user account -- can't do anything until we/I grant them 'developer' privileges.
20:59 kid51 The ratio of bot accounts to real-human accounts is upwards of 10:1.
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20:59 cotto_work mikehh: parrotbug doesn't currently interact directly with trac.
20:59 kid51 A lot of work for me.
20:59 lucian someone suggested moving to github issues, forgot who
21:00 kid51 But it has kept us free of spam Trac tickets since we made that change.
21:00 wknight-phone me
21:00 cotto_work I'd be +1 if we had the migration to do over, but another ticket migration sounds like a huge time sink.
21:01 mikehh if we set parrotbug to post to trac or github, will that stop spam?
21:02 cotto_work I would much rather make it easy for humans to set up usable trac accounts without admin intervention.
21:04 cotto_work I'll take a shot at finding something viable.  Others are encouraged to jump in and help.
21:05 cotto_work eoq
21:05 cotto_work Util: what was your question?
21:05 Util 0% coverage of src/list.c: http://tapir2.ro.vutbr.cz/cover/cover-results/2011-05/2011-05-24-8b56ba3/c_cover/
21:05 Util Looks like current GCs no longer use list.*. Is the code dead now?
21:06 cotto_work Util: I believe that's bacek's code.
21:07 Util OK; I will ask him. Thanks.
21:08 cotto_work Are there any other questions?
21:09 kid51 cotto_work: Yours
21:09 cotto_work kid51: mine was answered (enough)
21:10 wknight-phone left #parrotsketch
21:13 * kid51 has to reboot
21:13 kid51 left #parrotsketch
21:14 cotto_work Let's call it a wrap.
21:14 mikehh Goals?
21:14 cotto_work ah
21:14 cotto_work GOAL 1: Make git the canonical source of deprecation information (mikehh)
21:14 cotto_work GOAL 2: Find a way to make trac human-friendly and bot-hostile (cotto)
21:14 cotto_work (others are welcome)
21:18 Topic for #parrotsketch is now Priorities for this week: http://irclog.perlgeek.de/parrotsketch/2011-05-24#i_3798168 | Post closed tickets in your report. | Note: This channel is for our Tuesday status meetings (at 20:30 UTC); you probably want #parrot instead. | irclog: http://irclog.perlgeek.de/
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22:55 tcurtis late post-report since I managed to doze off both before and after #ps:
22:56 tcurtis What I did:
22:56 tcurtis Created repository for my project: https://github.com/ekiru/lalrskate
22:57 tcurtis Wrote a LALR::Grammar class and a prettyprinter tool for same.
22:57 tcurtis Got my build system working.
22:57 tcurtis What I will do:
22:57 tcurtis Blog.
22:57 tcurtis More reading.
22:59 tcurtis Tests for the grammar class.
23:00 tcurtis Sketch out a more detailed schedule for the next few weeks.
23:00 tcurtis Hopefully get started on same.
23:00 tcurtis EOR
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