Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #parrotsketch, 2011-06-07

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Time Nick Message
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18:30 kid51 kid51's report
18:30 kid51 * DOING
18:30 kid51 ** Looking into these Trac tickets: TT #1682; TT #1979; TT #2116; TT #2117; TT #2118 (tt2118/check_depend branch).  More eyeballs welcome on all of those.
18:30 kid51 ** Planning on attending both YAPC::NA in AVL and FOSSCON in PHL.
18:30 kid51 EOR
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19:19 NotFound What I did:
19:19 NotFound -parrot
19:19 NotFound * Created the with_winxed branch.
19:19 NotFound -winxed
19:19 NotFound * Some special purpose scope search in stage 0 to allow namespacing
19:19 NotFound of stage 1.
19:19 NotFound * Some more improvements in scope search.
19:19 NotFound * More tests.
19:19 NotFound * Enclose stage 1 classes and functions in namespace Winxed.Compiler.
19:19 NotFound * Added option to send output directly to a handle and use it in the
19:19 NotFound non installed driver to reduce bootstraping memory needs.
19:19 NotFound * Minor fixes.
19:19 NotFound What I will do:
19:19 NotFound No plan
19:19 NotFound EOR
19:23 benabik DID:
19:23 benabik - (Ab)used my commit bit.  nqp_pct now updated in parrot/parrot
19:23 benabik - Got my code to pass codetest
19:23 benabik - Removed the last bit of Q:PIR from PAST::Node and children
19:23 benabik - Blogged: http://www.parrot.org/content​/gsoc-3-my-god-its-full-goto
19:23 atrodo joined #parrotsketch
19:23 benabik WILL DO:
19:23 benabik - Continue my war on Q:PIR
19:23 benabik - Go to Buffalo BarCamp to meet people from Buffalo.PM
19:23 benabik -- Hopefully will find someone to carpool with
19:23 benabik BLOCKERS:
19:23 benabik - goto, goto, goto
19:23 benabik - my $old := $*VAR; my $*VAR := $new # Doesn't work!
19:23 benabik EOR
19:27 lucian What I did:
19:27 lucian - significantly refactored object system
19:27 lucian - improved syntax
19:27 lucian - paved the way for interop
19:27 lucian - added more tests (but broke older tests)
19:27 lucian - fixed bugs
19:27 lucian - attribute resolution
19:27 lucian - object creation
19:27 lucian - type instantiation
19:27 lucian What I'll do:
19:27 lucian - finish essential object system bits
19:27 lucian - functions
19:27 lucian - exceptions
19:27 lucian - fix __getattribute__ bugs
19:27 lucian - implement more types
19:27 lucian - retarget compiler to use object system
19:27 lucian EOR
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20:15 Util # Done:
20:15 Util * Previewed YAPC::NA::2011 talk at Atlanta.pm
20:15 Util * Added Perl 6 solutions for 2 more RosettaCode tasks.
20:15 Util # Plan to do:
20:15 Util * Commit code for TT#919
20:15 Util # 7-day ticket report:
20:15 Util 1 closed: done
20:15 Util 2 closed: fixed
20:15 Util 3 new
20:15 Util .end
20:17 tcurtis exec -out cat /tmp/ps-report
20:17 tcurtis oops
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20:21 tcurtis DID:
20:21 tcurtis * Took most of my finals
20:21 tcurtis * Did some refactoring of the grammar class
20:21 tcurtis * Read some more
20:21 tcurtis WILL DO:
20:21 tcurtis * blog
20:21 tcurtis * write me a shiny LR(0) parser generator
20:21 tcurtis * finish finals, pack
20:21 tcurtis EOR
20:23 soh_cah_toa REPORT
20:23 soh_cah_toa * Added support for non-pbc files
20:23 soh_cah_toa * Minor additions like switches, help, etc.
20:23 soh_cah_toa * Began work w/ breakpoints using program counter instead
20:23 soh_cah_toa * Blogged
20:23 soh_cah_toa TODO:
20:23 soh_cah_toa * Begin writing a tutorial
20:23 soh_cah_toa * List source command
20:24 soh_cah_toa * Blog
20:24 soh_cah_toa EOR
20:28 cotto_work *did:
20:28 cotto_work - was asked to write a chapter about Parrot for volume 2 of AOSA ( www.aosabook.org )
20:28 cotto_work - M0 progress:
20:28 cotto_work -- write a bunch of tests for math ops
20:28 cotto_work --- if someone wants to jump in, the boolean ops need similar tests
20:28 cotto_work -- started writing example/test for calling conventions
20:28 cotto_work -- also made a few spec updates to support calling conventions manipulation
20:28 cotto_work - GSoC progress:
20:28 cotto_work -- helped soh_cah_toa++ with various questions and build issues
20:28 cotto_work *will do:
20:28 cotto_work - m0: implement *working* calling conventions test
20:28 cotto_work - plan out the AOSA chapter
20:29 cotto_work - gsoc help as needed
20:29 cotto_work *eor
20:29 cotto_work q1q
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20:30 cotto_work hello
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20:30 mikehh hi there
20:31 bubaflub hello
20:31 soh_cah_toa ahoy hoy
20:31 kid51 Hello
20:31 cotto_work How'd the past week go?  What was great?  What wasn't?
20:32 cotto_work I didn't have any goals written down for the week, but general comments are still welcome.
20:33 kid51 It appears that several of the GSOC projects are underway, as evidenced by ...
20:33 kid51 ... conversations on #parrot;
20:33 kid51 ... several of the GSOC students now have commit bits and have begun committing.
20:34 kid51 We have approximately the same number of open TTs as we have had for the past month.
20:35 kid51 521 the way I count (which is slightly different from Util's but trends similarly)
20:35 cotto_work It's been a while since we took a shot at reducing that number.
20:36 kid51 q1q
20:36 cotto_work Let's make it a goal to get that back down.  510 would be reasonable.
20:37 kid51 I would like to extend that a bit.
20:37 kid51 By the time of the next supported release (3.6, July 19, for which I happen to be RM), I would like to have the number of BZ tickets below 500 ...
20:37 NotFound Hola
20:38 mikehh we really want to get that below 500, then 400 etc
20:38 kid51 ... and I would like to eliminate most of the warnings we are getting during 'make'.
20:38 Util +1 to warning reduction as a goal
20:38 mikehh kid51: been working on it - still some to go :-}
20:39 cotto_work I like that.
20:39 kid51 mikehh: Do you have any insight into all the 'structview' warnings during 'make'?
20:40 mikehh kid51: yeah - have got a good idea on most of them, how to fix it - hmmnnn
20:40 mikehh actually I think I can do most of them without breaking anything
20:40 kid51 mikehh: Can you reach out to whoever worked on the respective source code files? plobsing?
20:41 mikehh yup mostly plobsing++
20:41 cotto_work That PMC has some unusual code.  It's not surprising that it'd produce warnings.
20:41 kid51 k.  Not this week, but maybe in the next, I'll post to parrot-dev a request about the warnings and describe what remains to be done.
20:42 cotto_work It also needs more tests.
20:42 cotto_work Unfortunately it's not especially easy to understand as-is.
20:42 cotto_work kid51: was that your question?
20:43 kid51 Not so much a question as a topic.
20:44 benabik q1 idea
20:44 cotto_work benabik: fire away
20:44 kid51 I have a 20-minute slot speaking at YAPC in < 3 weeks about Parrot as a project.
20:44 kid51 I am facing writer's block on that ...
20:45 kid51 ... mostly because the Parrot Foundation side of what I do has been so depressing.
20:45 benabik Warnings and build errors are VERY easy to miss in a noisy build.  Git has a few tricks that make "gcc -o file.o -DDEFINE -Wwarning ....." into just "GCC file.o"
20:45 benabik Would a patch that makes the normal build less full of noise be welcome?
20:45 kid51 Well, I'll stop for the other discussion to -proceed.
20:45 benabik (Git's Makefile, not git the program)
20:46 cotto_work benabik: we used to have a perl script that did something similar, but we removed it in the interest if making the build more transparent.
20:46 cotto_work thanks for clarification
20:46 benabik https://github.com/git/git/​blob/master/Makefile#L1598
20:46 kid51 benabik:  Actually, if you grep the output of 'make' for 'warning:' -- note the colon -- you get exactly what you need.
20:47 cotto_work perhaps a make target that makes warnings more apparent is in order
20:48 mikehh I usually do a build to a file so I can peruse it a leisure (date && time make world 2>&1 | tee make_world.3_4_0-169.32.log) or something like that
20:48 benabik I could invert the way git does it.  Verbose by default, quiet on `make Q=1`...  I generally find that it makes any irregularity in build stand out far more.
20:49 benabik But if something similar has already been pulled out, that's fine.  EOQ
20:50 cotto_work kid51: back to you
20:50 kid51 So I suspect now that my talk will take the format of: "10-20 questions which participants and leaders in OS projects should ask themselves"
20:51 kid51 I am willing to include suggestions for such questions from the members of this project (not here; send email).
20:52 kid51 (I haven't formulated these thoughts much beyond this point.)
20:52 mikehh kid51: what specifically depresses you about PaFo
20:52 kid51 The internal functioning of the board has been suboptimal -- but that's not really appropriate for #ps.
20:53 mikehh kid51: 'k
20:54 kid51 The legal entities an OS project establishes for itself are *some* of the questions an OS project should consider -- but are nonetheless a minority of such questions.
20:55 kid51 So, if people want to send me their thoughts about questions that are important for OS projects -- as human communities -- to consider, that would be appreciated.
20:55 kid51 EOQ
20:55 soh_cah_toa kid51: i don't think i have your email address? what is it?
20:56 kid51 For here, let's use:  jkeenan at cpan dot org
20:56 soh_cah_toa great
20:56 kid51 (I'll reply from the real one, which is probably in CREDITS.)
20:56 soh_cah_toa oh yeah, CREDITS
20:57 cotto_work my q: How do you all feel about officially considering github pull requests equivalent to attached patches for trac tickets, i.e. submitting a ticket for with a pull request is equivalent to submitting one with a patch?
20:58 kid51 cotto_work: As you might suspect, I'm not in favor of this.
20:58 kid51 One more thing I (or anyone else) has to learn in order to participate in the project.
20:59 kid51 Speaking personally, with the limited amount of time I have available to contribute to the project, ...
20:59 kid51 ... I don't have the time to learn all the advanced git (or, really, github) stuff that other people do.
20:59 lucian kid51: afaik, you can download patches from github forks
21:00 cotto_work My view there isn't anything to learn.  Just look at the pull request and click "diff" to see the most current state of the request.
21:00 * kid51 has to attend a meeting at $job; sorry
21:02 cotto_work eoq then
21:03 cotto_work any other questions?  We'll have to consider that one unresolved.
21:03 Util No objections on my part # on pull req
21:04 soh_cah_toa i have a question
21:04 cotto_work I suspect that kid51 is the most likely to object, but I don't want to override his concerns without giving him a say.  I'll take it to parrot-dev.
21:04 cotto_work soh_cah_toa: go ahead
21:04 soh_cah_toa i've noticed that the copyright notice at the top of source files still read "2001-2010." now, i'm no expert in copyright law but shouldn't these be updated to 2011 since...well, it's 2011?
21:05 soh_cah_toa for some at least. not all of them
21:05 mikehh If I modify a file I usually remenber to update the copyright (not always unfortunately)
21:05 cotto_work soh_cah_toa: mikehh's approach is what we've been doing.
21:06 mikehh so the copyright reflects the last time the file was updated
21:07 soh_cah_toa i see, i'll have to remember that
21:07 cotto_work If there's not a compelling reason, it's a lot of churn without any benefit.
21:07 Util you cannot claim copyright as of every year that something is in existence, just years of "publication" with changes.
21:08 Util (IANAL)
21:08 lucian Util: so a release would mark that?
21:08 lucian i guess publication is fuzzy when source is available
21:08 soh_cah_toa right
21:08 mikehh wrt changes, certainly
21:09 Util I would think so, but you would only change/add the date if the file had changed as well.
21:10 soh_cah_toa alright then
21:11 cotto_work Does anyone have other questions or suggestions for goals?
21:12 lucian cotto_work: is this a time to report on 6model investigation promised last #ps?
21:12 cotto_work lucian: sure
21:12 mikehh work on tickets, especially older ones, fix warnings for next release as far as possible, check skipped tests
21:12 lucian from what i've seen, it's a rather traditional MOP
21:12 benabik q1q
21:13 lucian if you implement an object system, all your classes/objects will be instances of some host system's classes
21:13 lucian 'class' is a loose term here, any collection of structures and callables could be used
21:13 lucian atm, the host system is nqo
21:13 lucian nqp
21:16 lucian and almost everything about the object system you implement is customisable, much more so than parrot's Class/Object
21:19 cotto_work lucian: eor?
21:20 lucian cotto_work: pretty much
21:20 lucian if anyone has questions, you can ask. but don't have high hopes
21:21 lucian i guess i could add that i'm not using it atm, but what i do have is quite similar in design
21:25 cotto_work The goal I have listed for the week is to reduce our ticket count to 510.
21:25 cotto_work any others?
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21:26 mikehh fix compiler warnings
21:28 cotto_work mikehh: can you make that more concrete?
21:28 mikehh try and have a clean make for parrot with as few warnings as possible for the next release
21:29 NotFound q1q
21:29 cotto_work NotFound: go ahead
21:30 NotFound Merge with_winxed branch?
21:30 mikehh NotFound: looks good to me
21:32 cotto_work Has anyone tried it?
21:32 NotFound You mean other than me? I think lucian is using it for his project.
21:32 cotto_work the included version?
21:33 lucian no
21:33 lucian i use separate winxed
21:33 NotFound Then I don't know.
21:33 lucian in my defence, building parrot here takes a bit too long
21:34 NotFound I've built and used it in i386 and amd64
21:35 mikehh NotFound: I did some tests on the branch, but I have the same platforms as you do
21:35 * lucian will take one for the team and build it on arm soon
21:36 NotFound I can use some gcc farm machines, but the interesting ones are painfullly slow.
21:37 lucian my gf likes Hayden Panettiere, can't say i don't agree
21:37 lucian bah, wrong channel
21:37 * lucian apologises profusely
21:37 mikehh lucian: happens to us all :-}
21:38 NotFound I don't see a need for a wider testing, tough. Is just compiling pir to pbc and a bit of make.
21:38 cotto_work NotFound: I'm fine with merging with_winxed into master.
21:38 cotto_work any objections?
21:38 * kid51 is back
21:40 NotFound BTW ticket for the branch is TT #2127
21:41 NotFound If someone not attending now has any problem or suggestion, please comment in the ticket.
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21:41 cotto_work NotFound: wfm.  Give it a few days and if nobody objects, merge it.
21:41 NotFound Ok
21:42 NotFound eoq
21:42 mikehh I think benabik had a question
21:42 cotto_work benabik: go ahead
21:42 benabik Is anyone maintaining nqp-rx?  I know jnth's moved onto nom and such.
21:43 cotto_work benabik: nqp (new) is the recommended replacement.  I believe there are few compatibility breaks.
21:44 * lucian notes that nqp(new) comes with 6model
21:44 benabik cotto_work: Is new NQP going to become parrot-nqp soon, or if I find minor bugs/enhancements for -rx, should they be directed somewhere?
21:44 cotto_work benabik: that's a good question
21:45 sorear benabik: AIUI, nqp-rx has been forked and is maintained by #parrot now, but its days are numbered, most Parrot hackers have moved to Winxed
21:46 mikehh the last changes in nqp-rx were 3 months ago
21:47 lucian sorear: i have observed the same
21:50 benabik Well, I'll bring up patched in #parrot then.
21:50 cotto_work benabik: ok.
21:53 cotto_work kid51: do you have tuits to resume the github pull request discussion?
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21:58 cotto_work I genuinely think that using them means less work for us Parrot developers and don't understand why an attached patch would be preferable.
21:59 * kid51 got called back into $job discussion
21:59 lucian_ not to be rude, but i think kid51 just needs to read a few tutorials
22:00 * kid51 recommends cotto post something to parrot-dev against which we can provide feedback
22:00 lucian_ well, i was rude. also, the 'hub' cli tool helps
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22:01 cotto_work let's call it a wrap.  I'll move the github discussion to parrot-dev
22:02 mikehh goals?
22:08 cotto_work 510 tickets by this time next week
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