Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #parrotsketch, 2011-06-14

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Time Nick Message
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19:05 kid51 kid51's report
19:05 kid51 * DONE
19:05 kid51 ** Took and closed these Trac tickets: TT #1979; TT #2025; TT #2116; TT #2117; TT #2119.
19:05 kid51 ** Cage-cleaned; closed TT #2036; TT #2127.
19:05 kid51 ** (But, with creation of new tickets, we're still at approx 520 tickets this week.)
19:05 kid51 ** Drafted YAPC::NA::2011 talk.
19:06 kid51 ** Provided cotto off-line feedback on github pull requests as patch references.
19:06 kid51 * WILL BE DOING
19:06 kid51 ** Contemplating working on TT #849.
19:06 kid51 ** More work on YAPC presentation.
19:06 kid51 * EOR
19:15 benabik DID:
19:15 benabik - Met w/ Buffalo.PM, failed to find ride
19:15 benabik - Continued my war on Q:PIR, got about 2/3rds of it done
19:15 benabik - Mostly caught up with pmichaud's PCT changes in master
19:15 benabik - Started tracking future TODOs in github issues: https://github.com/benabik/parrot/issues
19:16 benabik WILL DO:
19:16 benabik - Finish removing Q:PIR blocks from PAST
19:16 benabik - Figure out how to use the new POST classes
19:16 benabik - Blog
19:16 benabik - See if I can carpool with anyone in Toronto.PM (or just rent a car)
19:16 benabik SEMI-BLOCKERS:
19:16 benabik - Strange goto logic
19:16 benabik - Lack of bacek
19:16 benabik - pmichaud changing PCT in master
19:16 benabik - pmichaud back-porting pir::const::*
19:16 benabik EOR
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19:55 NotFound What I did:
19:55 NotFound -parrot
19:55 NotFound * Merged the with_winxed branch, a winxed snapshot now lives in master.
19:55 NotFound * Added the get_main method to the Eval PMC.
19:55 NotFound * Added the Eval get_pointer vtable to access its underlying packfile.
19:55 NotFound -winxed
19:55 NotFound * Added the write-to-output feature that was lost during refactorings,
19:55 NotFound its absence was causing bootstrap to eat too much memory.
19:55 NotFound * Use get_main to look for the main sub in the installed driver.
19:55 NotFound What I will do:
19:55 NotFound Figuring the better way to do basic tests of the winxed snapshot.
19:55 NotFound EOR
20:01 soh_cah_toa REPORT
20:01 soh_cah_toa PARROT:
20:01 soh_cah_toa * Started working on TT #2134
20:01 soh_cah_toa GSOC:
20:01 soh_cah_toa * Basic design is just about finished
20:01 soh_cah_toa * Today I will be implementing the CLI
20:01 soh_cah_toa * Blogged (http://parrot.org/content/progress-last)
20:01 soh_cah_toa TODO:
20:01 soh_cah_toa * Begin writing unit tests (I forsee this within the next few days)
20:02 soh_cah_toa * Have TT #2134 closed by next meeting
20:02 soh_cah_toa * Begin writing tutorial if I can get tests to pass
20:02 soh_cah_toa * Blog
20:02 soh_cah_toa EOR
20:02 benabik ADDENDUM:
20:02 benabik DID:          - blogged: http://www.parrot.org/cont​ent/gsoc-4-unsteady-ground
20:02 benabik SEMI-BLOCKER: - NQP + multiple return = ??
20:02 benabik EOA
20:15 tcurtis DID:
20:15 tcurtis * Finished finals
20:15 tcurtis * Moved out of dorm for the summer
20:15 tcurtis * Almost done writing blog post, finally
20:15 tcurtis WILL DO:
20:15 tcurtis * Finish blog
20:15 tcurtis * Actually generate the parsing tables for LR(0) grammars
20:15 tcurtis * Hopefully get started on the LALR(k) parser tables
20:15 tcurtis * Decide whether to go to YAPC::NA
20:15 tcurtis EOR
20:28 bubaflub DID:
20:28 bubaflub GSoC:
20:28 bubaflub Blogged - http://www.parrot.org/content/parrot-​gmp-generated-code-strings-and-tests
20:28 bubaflub Finished Winxed class with documentation
20:29 bubaflub Handle strings properly
20:29 bubaflub Begin writing tests
20:29 bubaflub WILL DO:
20:29 bubaflub Finish test suite, more docs, tutorial
20:29 bubaflub EOR
20:29 Util # Done:       Many new Perl 6 solutions on RosettaCode. Details at: http://irclog.perlgeek.de/p​hasers/2011-06-14#i_3926119
20:29 Util # Plan to do: TT#919 and TT#1302
20:29 Util # Blockers:   $WORK has picked up.
20:29 Util .end
20:29 mikehh What I did since my last report:
20:29 mikehh * building and testing parrot on amd64/i386, with gcc/g++
20:29 mikehh * some fixes
20:29 mikehh * building and testing rakudo and winxed against latest parrot
20:29 mikehh * cleared up a bunch of compiler warnings in the build
20:29 mikehh especially src/pmc/structview.pmc which was a major problem
20:29 mikehh as line numbers did not correspond (due to macros I think)
20:29 mikehh What I intend to do in the next week:
20:29 mikehh * testing and fixing
20:29 mikehh .eor
20:30 cotto_work *did:
20:30 cotto_work - M0 progress:
20:30 cotto_work -- cleaned up a few loose ends in the spec
20:30 cotto_work -- started a todo list: https://gist.github.com/1019986
20:30 cotto_work -- wrote up rough draft intro to M0: https://gist.github.com/1022340
20:30 cotto_work -- got the calling conventions test working 100%
20:30 cotto_work - GSoC progress:
20:30 cotto_work -- helped soh_cah_toa++ with various questions and build issues
20:30 cotto_work *will do:
20:30 cotto_work - gsoc as needed
20:30 cotto_work - revamp parrot talk for OS Bridge
20:30 cotto_work - M0 fibonacci example
20:30 cotto_work *eor
20:30 cotto_work q1q
20:30 mikehh q1q
20:30 benabik q1q
20:31 cotto_work hi
20:31 tcurtis Hello.
20:31 benabik Yellow.
20:31 soh_cah_toa hey
20:31 Util Hello
20:31 NotFound Hola
20:32 bubaflub hello
20:32 cotto_work How'd this past week go?  kid51 seems to have gone on a ticket rampage.
20:32 mikehh hi there
20:34 cotto_work no takers?
20:34 Util kid51++
20:35 tcurtis I got very little done, I'm afraid.
20:35 NotFound with_winxed merging seems to have been harmless.
20:35 cotto_work ok.  any comments on issues raised during the week?
20:35 cotto_work NotFound: yes
20:35 mikehh we also reduced the number of warnings in the build
20:35 cotto_work that seems to be going well.
20:36 benabik I made progress, but had underestimated the sheer size of PAST::Compiler.  Plus pmichaud keeps changing it out from under me.  ;-)
20:36 cotto_work He's sneaky.
20:37 kid51 Down to 6 warnings during 'make' with gcc
20:37 mikehh I tested winxed, both with the version included and building from the repo
20:37 cotto_work Let's move to questions then.
20:37 cotto_work mine: After a bit of discussion with kid51, it sounds like he's ok with using pull requests in addition to patches attached to trac.  Any objection to making this official?
20:38 Util +1
20:38 kid51 +1 if that '.diff' hack continues to work; +0 otherwise
20:40 cotto_work alright.  I'll continue to look for official documentation that says it's a long-term supported feature.
20:40 cotto_work eqo
20:40 cotto_work mikehh: go ahead
20:40 cotto_work *eoq
20:40 mikehh With regard to tickets/tests - when a ticket is closed, we really need to
20:40 mikehh include an appropriate test to cover the problem that causes the failure
20:40 mikehh with the ticket so that it does not happen again and we have a regression
20:40 mikehh test for it.
20:40 mikehh What I really propose is that we do NOT finally close the ticket unless we
20:40 mikehh have an appropriate test (if that is applicable)
20:41 cotto_work mikehh: I remember a discussion on this and suspect that that's our official policy.
20:42 NotFound Even better, add the test before the fix.
20:42 cotto_work at any rate, it's appropriate and recommended to reopen any tickets that get closed without tests for which reasonable tests can be written.
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20:42 mikehh NotFound: of course
20:42 cotto_work q1q
20:42 cotto_work actually, unqueue that
20:44 mikehh I have a couple of tickets that had problems, that look as though they gone away, but have no idea what caused the problem in the first place
20:44 mikehh s/they/the problem has/
20:46 cotto_work mikehh: feel free to reopen tickets as needed.  We need to be sure that problems aren't reappearing.
20:46 NotFound Closing tickets is a mean, not a goal by itself.
20:46 mikehh what I need is test tuits
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20:47 cotto_work Closing closeable tickets is good because it reduces the noise in the ticket queue and makes it more approachable.
20:47 mikehh one of my current TODO's id to reexamine all skipped tests
20:47 mikehh is
20:48 cotto_work mikehh: does that answer what you need answered?
20:48 * mikehh gah, getting used to the new keyboard
20:48 NotFound Yeah, even just figuring a way to change to todo will be better than let them skipped.
20:49 mikehh just really wanted to bring it up, we need more test coverage, especially where we had failures
20:50 cotto_work ok.  Thanks for bringing it up.  It is important to avoid regressions.
20:50 cotto_work benabik: go ahead
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20:51 benabik I haven't seen bacek in a while, and hadn't talked to him much when he was around.  IIRC, PerlJam was my backup mentor...  Most of my Qs have been answered by various folks on #parrot, but I wanted to be sure there wasn't some administrative stuff I wasn't doing by not talking to bacek.  :-/
20:51 cotto_work benabik: if you can't catch him, we can't blame you for not doing so.
20:52 cotto_work keep trying and hopefully others can answer your questions
20:52 mikehh benabik: that is also why we have backup mentors
20:53 benabik I'll poke PerlJam with a stick.  I haven't been blocking on anything, really, just don't want my midterm eval to say "never talked to mentor".  :-)
20:54 benabik eoq
20:54 mikehh benabik: you might try bacek_at_work, don't know if he is checking that though
20:54 cotto_work He's been quiet recently.
20:55 benabik He had mentioned that $job or $life was busy when last I had talked to him.
20:55 mikehh he did mention that he had a major project coming up
20:55 cotto_work q1q
20:56 benabik Although talking to bacek soon would help.  I'm getting to the point where I need to figure out his code instead of pmichaud's.  :-D
20:56 benabik EOQ (for real this time?)
20:57 mikehh benabik: jut remember feel free to ask
20:57 mikehh just
20:58 benabik mikehh: I haven't been too shy so far, I think.  I even sometimes talk to myself on #parrot trying to figure things out.  :-D
20:58 cotto_work asking myself questions on #parrot is surprisingly helpful
20:59 cotto_work my question: It's getting really old to be missing kid51, dukeleto and whiteknight at these meetings.  I'm starting a doodle to find a better time and sending it to parrot-dev.  What times of day don't work for people here?
21:00 * Util is full adaptable (modulo U.S. sleep hours)
21:00 kid51 cotto_work:  I recommend starting by asking whiteknight and dukeleto what times work for them, as it is their absence that hurts us the most
21:00 benabik mostly ditto, although $life does happen in US/Eastern evenings.
21:01 cotto_work kid51: good idea.
21:01 kid51 ... at least, limiting ourselves to devs in Western hemisphere (unlike bacek)
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21:01 cotto_work kid51++ for ticket rampaging, btw
21:02 kid51 With devs around the globe, no time will work for everyone, so you have to figure out how to maximize chances your most active devs can attend.
21:02 cotto_work Right.  We can do better than what we have now.
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21:03 kid51 And, once we get a better time, pre-posting discussion topics on parrot-dev is highly recommended (like the github pull thing)
21:03 * tcurtis has no time at which he absolutely cannot attend.
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21:04 mikehh I am pretty flexible since I work from home and have clients in Chicago and Southern California and elsewhere
21:04 cotto_work I'll start with team leads and post the common availability to parrot-dev in a doodle.
21:04 kid51 Until last year, I could not login to #ps from $job at all.  Now I can, but I mostly get distracted with $job issues.
21:06 cotto_work Does anyone have suggestions for goals or other points of discussion?
21:06 kid51 They're paying me; y'all aren't. :-)
21:06 mikehh we must also consider our devs in Europe and elsewhere, but maybe we can vary the time to fit others in
21:07 kid51 mikehh: To what extent are our devs in Europe in contact with one another?
21:07 cotto_work mikehh: certainly.  Europe is a nice place.
21:07 kid51 E.g., have you ever met any other parrot devs F2F?
21:08 mikehh no idea, I mostly contact people in #parrot and #perl6 etc
21:08 kid51 We often seem to be on a "1 parrot dev per nation" quota in europe ...
21:09 kid51 ... which makes imagining a Parrot dev gathering difficult.
21:09 mikehh don't think I have met any of the devs face-to-face
21:09 kid51 I believe some folks may go to YAPC::EU, which this year is in Latvia
21:09 NotFound A bit too far to me.
21:11 cotto_work I'll be there
21:14 cotto_work It seems we're slowing down.  Should we set any collective goals for the week?
21:15 mikehh We have a major release next week don't we?
21:15 cotto_work not a major release, but a normal release
21:16 mikehh oh yeah, the .6 release is the major one
21:16 cotto_work I'll probably call a code freeze for the weekend.  In the meantime, testing HLLs is a good idea
21:16 NotFound It's Major with capital M, because it will be the first with Winxed Inside(tm) ;)
21:17 cotto_work NotFound: you have Winxed trademarked? ;]
21:17 NotFound cotto_work: I'd like it, but won't pay for the privilige.
21:18 mikehh good for a bugfest over the weekend
21:19 mikehh was over in #phasers earlier (on freenode) we should have more representation there
21:20 cotto_work mikehh: good idea for those with tuits
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21:21 cotto_work I'd like to see fewer than 500 open bugs for 3.5.0.
21:21 mikehh just got the impression that perl6 devs are not too happy with parrot
21:21 mikehh and more tests
21:22 cotto_work here's what I have:
21:22 cotto_work GOAL 1: solid 3.5.0 release (no bugs or regressions)
21:22 cotto_work GOAL 2: get bug count below 500
21:23 cotto_work I agree that we need someone in #phasers.  When does it happen?
21:23 mikehh 20h00 GMT today
21:23 cotto_work 30 before #ps
21:24 mikehh an hour and a half before #ps
21:24 cotto_work ok
21:24 benabik I tend to be in #phasers, mostly out of curiosity.
21:24 mikehh sorry must be 19h00 GMT, I am on BST
21:25 cotto_work anyone who's there, please summarize what's going on when you can
21:25 mikehh benabik: yeah, saw toy there
21:25 mikehh you
21:25 * tcurtis lurks but doesn't always read.
21:26 mikehh http://irclog.perlgeek.de/phasers/today
21:26 kid51 What is purpose of #phasers?
21:26 cotto_work I need to attend to $dayjob.  Feel free to continue discussion, but let's call the official part of the meeting over.
21:26 tadzik kid51: #ps for Perl 6 folks
21:27 mikehh pretty much the same as #ps I think, for perl6
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23:39 tcurtis whiteknight: now's fine.
23:40 whiteknight awesome. I read your blog post
23:40 whiteknight it's good most of your distractions are disappearing
23:42 tcurtis whiteknight: yes. I'm quite sorry about the lack of getting much done in the last couple of weeks, though.
23:43 whiteknight nothing to be sorry about, we just have to figure out how far off schedule you are, and what to do about that
23:43 whiteknight do you have a link handy to your timeline?
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23:44 whiteknight nevermind, I got it
23:44 tcurtis http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/propo​sal/review/google/gsoc2011/tylercurtis/1 # in case anyone's reading along
23:45 whiteknight okay, so do you have the algorithm digraph built? Have you started with any testing?
23:47 tcurtis No. I haven't started on that. I haven't yet done the LR(0) parsing tables part.
23:47 whiteknight okay
23:47 whiteknight okay, so you have the classes for the grammar written?
23:47 whiteknight or, at least prototyped?
23:48 whiteknight (I'm not trying to prod, I'm just trying to get an idea of status)
23:49 tcurtis whiteknight: yes. Currently, the only changes I expect to that are to replace my ad-hoc array copying for .nonterminals/.terminals with a Rosella.Proxy and to do something similar for .rule()
23:50 whiteknight oh, is that what you're going to be using the immutable stuff for?
23:50 tcurtis And those are both things I feel are okay to put off until later.
23:50 tcurtis Yes.
23:51 whiteknight yeah, that doesn't seem like a high priority task. Leave a TODO note in the code, but don't worry about performance right now
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23:54 tcurtis So, getting the LR(0) parsing tables done is my immediate priority, followed by catching up on the generalization to LALR.
23:54 particle left #parrotsketch
23:55 tcurtis Now that I've read more of the background material, I suspect that that generalization will probably not be too difficult, so I think I can likely catch up a bit there.
23:56 whiteknight okay, don't underestimate. You're probably not gong to make up the time lost
23:59 whiteknight I mean, just focus on doing the tasks, not doing them AND making up tme
23:59 whiteknight time

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