Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #parrotsketch, 2011-09-13

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
01:06 whiteknight joined #parrotsketch
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16:44 whiteknight joined #parrotsketch
16:52 whiteknight WHAT I DID:
16:52 whiteknight * Lots of talk about new policy stuff.
16:52 whiteknight * Played with parrot-libgit2 a little bit, fixed up some old Rosella-based test stuff
16:52 whiteknight * Big refactor for Rosella Harness library. Am working to improve test coverage for it all now. Internals are much prettier now and more extendable
16:52 whiteknight * Adding several new features to Rosella Query and FileSystem. Need to blog about them and document
16:52 whiteknight * Added try/catch/throw to Jaesop, with tests
16:52 whiteknight * Looking at Parrot GC stuff. Sent an email to parrot-dev about it. Want to rip out some of the run-time core selection stuff and optimize some hotpaths.
16:52 whiteknight WHAT I WILL DO:
16:52 whiteknight * Wrap up changes to Rosella Harness
16:52 whiteknight * Start a branch for exploratory GC optimizations
16:52 whiteknight * Talk about merging whiteknight/kill_threads, then kill all thread-related tickets.
16:52 whiteknight * More looking at 6model. Probably want to talk to jnthn at some point
16:52 whiteknight * Knock off a few more to-do items in Jaesop, get stage 0 "complete"
16:52 whiteknight EOR
17:00 HSlayer joined #parrotsketch
17:27 Coke What I DID: started hacking on a smolder replacement. Collaborators (or even just users) welcome. EOR.
17:42 dukeleto joined #parrotsketch
18:28 NotFound joined #parrotsketch
18:39 NotFound What I did:
18:39 NotFound -parrot
18:39 NotFound * Minor improvements and cage cleaning in frontend/parrot2
18:39 NotFound * Fixed Timer repeating usage
18:39 NotFound * Cage cleaning and fixes in scheduler
18:39 NotFound * Updated winxed snapshot to get latest features and fixes
18:39 NotFound -winxed
18:39 NotFound * Fixed HLL issues in class operator
18:39 NotFound * Don't automatically tailcall by default insside a try block
18:39 NotFound * allowtaicall modifier in try, from whiteknight++ and plobsing++ comments
18:39 NotFound * builtin __ASSERT__
18:39 NotFound * -X command line option fron whiteknight++ Issue 11
18:39 NotFound What I will do:
18:39 NotFound No plan
18:39 NotFound EOR
19:09 Coke joined #parrotsketch
19:22 cotto_work #ps in 8
19:25 tcurtis joined #parrotsketch
19:25 tcurtis DONE: nothing, just relaxed. WILL DO: Start working on LALRskate again. EOR
19:29 cotto_work *did:
19:29 cotto_work - chat with whiteknight about the Next Big Thing
19:29 cotto_work -- probably C/6model import into Parrot
19:29 cotto_work -- also, GC macroization
19:29 cotto_work -- it's still changing in nqp, so there's that
19:29 cotto_work - merged dafrito++'s pull request to update Pod::Simple
19:29 cotto_work - overally, it's been relatively quiet
19:29 cotto_work - misc subprof hacking
19:29 cotto_work *todo
19:29 cotto_work - subprof cleanup, grokking, possibly stealing the good parts
19:29 cotto_work - finish profiling docs
19:29 cotto_work *eor
19:29 Util # Nothing done, and no plan, due to $WORK. 7-day ticket report:
19:29 Util 3  closed: fixed
19:29 Util 2  closed: invalid
19:29 Util 2  new
19:29 Util .end
19:30 cotto_work hello
19:31 Util Hello
19:32 bubaflub hello
19:34 tcurtis Hi.
19:34 cotto_work How's this week been?  I like the cleanup work that's been happening.
19:35 dukeleto ~~
19:35 NotFound Hola
19:36 dukeleto we have a few very basic tests for hll interop in t/pir/interop.t now
19:36 cotto_work I saw.  dukeleto++
19:36 cotto_work not enough though. ;)
19:36 dukeleto cotto_work: should that test become part of "make test" ?
19:36 dukeleto cotto_work: currently, it is only part of "make interop_tests"
19:36 cotto_work dukeleto: I'm disappointed that it's not.  Why shouldn't it?
19:37 dukeleto cotto_work: no good reason. Mostly, i just forgot to add it
19:37 cotto_work wfm.  Add that sucker.
19:37 dukeleto cotto_work: i imagine those tests will, for example: attempt to load Lua and Rakudo pbc. If they exists, attempt to marshall data between Lua + Rakudo, etc...
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19:38 dukeleto cotto_work: in theory, we could test interop between winxed and nqp without needing anything outside the parrot repo
19:39 cotto_work dukeleto: I'm a bit apprehensive about having tests like that.  I want interop to be well-tested, but having tests run/pass conditionally on whether hlls are installed strieks me as suboptimal'
19:39 cotto_work (referring to Rakudo and Lua)
19:39 dukeleto cotto_work: no, they would be skipped if the necessary HLL's are not present
19:39 cotto_work right, so they'd usually get ignoref
19:39 cotto_work *ignored
19:40 dukeleto cotto_work: yes. What is a better solution? Where should HLL interop tests live? Their own special repo?
19:40 benabik If they're part of make test, they will generally get run before any HLLs have been installed/updated.
19:40 cotto_work Hmmm.  allhlltest pretty much guarantees that HLLs will be available.  That might be a starting point.
19:40 dukeleto benabik: well, winxed and nqp will be present, at least
19:41 whiteknight Jaesop isn't at a point where it can really be tested
19:42 whiteknight it was waiting on some HLL fixes that were just added to Winxed
19:42 cotto_work Its day will come.  We'll be ready.
19:43 whiteknight that day might have to wait for 6model. There is no reasonable way to do HLL mapping with javascript objects until we have much more subclassable metaobjects
19:43 cotto_work btw, have you been looking at jnthn++'s 6model changes in nqp over the past ~week?
19:44 whiteknight I skimmed a few. Need to look harder
19:44 cotto_work Is there any kind of well-defined process for bringing in changes or do we just as jnthn to sit still? ;)
19:44 whiteknight I'm sort of in a holding pattern right now
19:45 dukeleto i am sure our current way to do hll interop will change, but having some kind of basic tests for it seems useful. For instance, it uses P6metaclass right now, which will most probably change.
19:45 whiteknight I'll be getting back to that this week. I really need to coordinate with jnthn about how we want to work this
19:45 cotto_work btw, anyone even remotely interested in 6model is strongly encouraged to study the code.  We need as high a bus number on that as we can get.
19:45 benabik I've looked it over, but wouldn't say I'm expert in it.
19:46 cotto_work same here
19:46 dukeleto cotto_work: i was reading all the commits for a few months, but haven't looked at it recently
19:47 dukeleto cotto_work: is the plan to pull in 6model wholesale, with possibly a few modifications, or rewrite it?
19:47 dukeleto that is not clear to me
19:47 NotFound I'm ready to add features to winxed compreg'ed object, as long as they are going to be useful. If nqp or rakudo are going to expect some metaclass on it, will be a lose of time.
19:47 whiteknight my current plan is to pull it wholesale
19:47 Coke q1q
19:47 whiteknight that is, copy what is in NQP right now into Parrot, so NQP feels as little change initially as possible
19:48 whiteknight Once it's in, we start integrating.
19:48 cotto_work I'd prefer a rewrite so that we're not trying to adapt code for a situation that it's not designed for.
19:48 whiteknight whether that's the best plan or not is open to debate. I'm open to comments
19:48 cotto_work I'll need to spend some quality time with the code anyway.
19:48 whiteknight we can do it either way. A rewrite will be more intensive of developer time
19:49 cotto_work (if it turns out that the code won't require much adaptation, I'm happy with that approach too)
19:49 benabik The 6model core seems fairly lightweight and clear.  We probably won't want to import NQP's HOWs, but it seems to me that the basic STABLE, attributes, API, etc. shouldn't need much change.
19:50 benabik (We'd replace NQPClassHOW with a PMCHOW or something, I'd imagine.)
19:51 cotto_work Does anyone have other thoughts before we move to coke's question?
19:51 * benabik has a class starting in 10, so will probably go AFK in a moment.
19:52 cotto_work Coke: go ahead.
19:56 cotto_work until Coke gets back, does anyone else have a question?
20:00 cotto_work I guess that's it for questions.
20:01 cotto_work We had a few goals set from last week.
20:01 cotto_work GOAL 1: work with Rakudo on a new support policy
20:01 cotto_work GOAL 2: filter through feedback on support policy, keep track of the important bits
20:01 cotto_work GOAL 3: document allhlltest (git_workflow.pod)
20:01 cotto_work GOAL 4: new SSL cert
20:01 cotto_work GOAL 5: figure out a rough roadmap of what we want to change (whiteknight)
20:01 whiteknight roger
20:02 cotto_work The first goal depends on Rakudo being ready.  I'll talk to them as ask them when they think that'll happen.
20:03 cotto_work The second goal is similar.  I don't think we have anything more organized than the parrot-dev thread.
20:04 Util FYI, #phasers is moving to @1730UTC, skipping tommorow.
20:04 Util Wednesdays, I should have said
20:05 cotto_work I'll add allhlltest to git_workflow now.
20:06 cotto_work anyone know about the ssl cert?
20:06 whiteknight I sent an email to OSU, they said we needed some kind of key. I pinged Jerry about it
20:07 cotto_work alright
20:11 cotto_work I know there's a gist of possible goals for a post-deprecation Parrot floating around somewhere.  any objections if I create a "misc" repository under the parrot org for that kind of thing?
20:12 dukeleto cotto_work: more repos are always nice, but perhaps a better name than "misc" ?
20:13 cotto_work let the bikeshedding begin!
20:13 benabik Blue!
20:13 dukeleto Clear with polka dots.
20:13 dukeleto cotto_work: i guess "misc" is fine :)
20:14 cotto_work I'm open to a better name.
20:15 benabik gh-pages?  :-D
20:16 dukeleto cotto_work: what are you planning in putting in this repo?
20:16 dukeleto cotto_work: mostly textual documents for planning?
20:16 cotto_work dukeleto: that and anything else that should be generally useful, shared and doesn't really fit elsewhere
20:17 cotto_work shared rw, that is
20:18 dukeleto cotto_work: "misc" is fine for now. If we think of a better name, we can rename it.
20:19 cotto_work dukeleto: this is true
20:22 soh_cah_toa joined #parrotsketch
20:23 cotto_work created
20:24 cotto_work whiteknight: can you stick your roadmap gist in there?
20:24 whiteknight yeah, I will tonight
20:24 cotto_work thanks
20:24 cotto_work any goals for the week?
20:25 soh_cah_toa submit smolder reports to catch test failures for upcoming release
20:25 soh_cah_toa also, get whiteknight/kill_threads merged into master
20:25 whiteknight if there are no objections, I think we want to do that
20:26 cotto_work +1
20:26 dukeleto +1 to kill threads
20:27 whiteknight I think we're starting to get enough interest built up behind a replacement
20:28 Util +1
20:28 * whiteknight has to sign out now.
20:31 cotto_work anything else?
20:31 cotto_work or should we call it a wrap
20:31 benabik +1
20:32 cotto_work It sounds like we're done.  Go forth and learn 6model!
20:33 cotto_work and make sure not to destabilize the release
20:37 benabik left #parrotsketch
20:37 * Coke returns, far too late for his question.
20:38 cotto_work ooc, what was it?
20:40 Coke -> #parrot
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