Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #parrotsketch, 2011-09-20

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
03:05 cotto joined #parrotsketch
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18:28 NotFound joined #parrotsketch
18:36 NotFound What I did:
18:36 NotFound -parrot
18:36 NotFound * Testing and minor fixes
18:36 NotFound -winxed
18:36 NotFound * operator ~ (bitwise not)
18:36 NotFound * minor fixes and refactors
18:36 NotFound * set version number to 1.2.0 for parrot 3.8
18:36 NotFound What I will do:
18:36 NotFound Try to fix sleep (TT #2192)
18:36 NotFound EOR
18:51 Coke What I did: minor hacking on muddle. Will continue.
19:25 Util # Done:
19:25 Util * Attended last week's #phasers meeting, where it was decided to move future meetings to Wed@17:30UTC
19:25 Util # Plan to do:
19:25 Util * No tuits expected this week.
19:26 Util # Blockers:
19:26 Util * $WORK
19:26 Util # 7-day ticket report:
19:26 Util 2 new
19:26 Util .end
19:27 dukeleto joined #parrotsketch
19:30 cotto_work hello
19:33 NotFound Hola
19:34 cotto_work Our release manager mentioned that he'd be done with a class in about 25 minutes.
19:35 cotto_work How's this week been?
19:36 NotFound Quiet, it seems.
19:36 cotto_work quite
19:36 dukeleto ~~
19:37 Util ~~
19:37 cotto_work I saw lots of smallish fixes and some subprof work
19:40 NotFound There are activity in branches waiting for the release
19:41 cotto_work I think that'll be happening later today.  I'll make sure soh_cah_toa knows to let everyone know when it's safe to break master again.
19:41 cotto_work Is there anything important that someone would like to bring up?
19:47 cotto_work This could be a brief meeting.
19:49 cotto_work I guess we can call it a wrap unless someone wants to jump in.
19:51 NotFound volatile short meeting;
19:51 dukeleto seems like lots of stuff needs talking about. i.e. are we having a stable release next month?
19:52 cotto_work dukeleto: that's a good question.
19:53 dukeleto cotto_work: especially since I am release manager next month :)
19:53 cotto_work Given how we're regarding stability, the biggest reason I see for stable releases is so that distro package maintainers know what to package.
19:54 NotFound Not a bad reason
19:54 cotto_work NotFound: I agree
19:55 cotto_work Making their lives easier is in our interest.
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19:57 cotto_work I fine continuing with stable releases for that reason alone.
19:57 cotto_work *I'm
19:58 dukeleto "stable" releases means what?
19:58 cotto_work "package this"
19:59 cotto_work a better name might be appropriate
19:59 dukeleto So are we killing the dep policy for the short term? Let distros package every 3rd month, but state that stuff will change between them in the short term?
20:00 cotto_work yes, with the caveat that we'll be running all_hll_test more frequently
20:01 dukeleto cotto_work: all_hll_test should be running on the gcc compile farm on every commit to master
20:01 cotto_work dukeleto: great.  Note that some package have dependencies that need to be manually installed (e.g. parrot-linear-algebra)
20:02 cotto_work also, the /tmp dir may get crowded.  it'll currently generate ~180M of logs per run
20:03 dukeleto cotto_work: the gcc boxen have lots of space. Not an issue
20:03 dukeleto cotto_work: and we can install deps for everything once. not an issue.
20:04 dukeleto cotto_work: we need to document how we have our gcc compile smokers/etc setup, though. Currently, it is all in my head, with a bit in NotFound++'s head too.
20:04 cotto_work dukeleto: ok.  I just want to make sure you know what they'll need.
20:04 cotto_work +1
20:04 dukeleto cotto_work: for instance, a bunch of compile farm machines had to be moved to a new place, so the smokers went down on those and need to be setup again
20:04 cotto_work You both have nice brains, but writing things down is preferable.
20:05 dukeleto cotto_work: are you thinking a POD doc in the repo is a good place for that?
20:05 cotto_work It's as good a place as any.
20:06 dukeleto cotto_work: something in docs/project ?
20:07 cotto_work +1
20:07 dukeleto has anybody seen this? https://lwn.net/Articles/458094/
20:07 dukeleto She also pointed to Parrot as a project that was using a bad model for its development. Parrot switched to Git, but uses a centralized scheme with a "painful branching and merging strategy", rather than something more like the Linux kernel strategy. It's not Git's fault, she said, "tools can be misused". While Parrot is getting things done, it is not operating optimally which makes it hard for new
20:07 dukeleto developers and in general gets in the way of the development of the project.
20:08 dukeleto harsh words...
20:09 cotto_work Is that a broken thing that we can benefit from fixing or is it a broken thing that we can deal with while we fix other things?
20:09 NotFound Is always nice to see people making tools that can be used in many ways, just to be able to say you are using it wrong.
20:09 cotto_work or possibly not broken
20:10 dukeleto the thing is, parrot's dev model has only gotten simpler since we went from svn->git. Seems like it is parrot's fault for our dev workflow, not git's.
20:10 dukeleto It is just a odd way to end that article. Seems like allison just doesn't like git, but is taking it out on how parrot is using git.
20:10 cotto_work I don't see a whole lot of pain as coming from our branching and merging strategy.
20:11 dukeleto cotto_work: me neither. We have had over 150 pull requests since we have been on github.
20:11 cotto_work I see plenty of things that are broken, but our git workflow is not one of them, recent pull requests notwithstanding.
20:11 dukeleto cotto_work: evidently, that article is the reason that Junio (the current maintainer of Git) found our git_workflow.pod and gave us comments on it.
20:12 dukeleto Junio = @gitster on github
20:12 cotto_work speaking of which, we need to integrate those changes
20:12 cotto_work yup
20:12 cotto_work dukeleto: do you have the tuits to do that?
20:13 dukeleto cotto_work: a few. But I think they need to be talked about. There are a few obvious changes that I can incorporate, but other suggestions are actually changes to the suggested workflow
20:14 NotFound "is not operating optimally" looks like MBA gibbersih to me.
20:14 cotto_work dukeleto: are you ready to discuss them here?
20:16 dukeleto cotto_work: sure, for a bit. I have a call in ~30 mins
20:17 cotto_work dukeleto: go for it whenever you're ready
20:19 dukeleto does anybody find any part of the current branch/merging guide difficult or non-intuitive?
20:20 PerlJam dukeleto: is that git_workflow.pod ?
20:21 cotto_work https://github.com/parrot/parrot/blob/master/docs/project/git_workflow.pod
20:22 PerlJam It reads more like a git tutorial at the beginning
20:25 cotto_work allison: are you around to comment on what could be improved in the git workflow?
20:29 cotto_work dukeleto: let's continue with gitster++'s feedback
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20:31 dukeleto PerlJam: yes
20:31 dukeleto PerlJam: it is meant to be somewhat self-contained
20:31 dukeleto cotto_work: trying to pull it up. internets are cloggy
20:31 cotto_work https://github.com/gitster/parrot/commit/27a9f10d819ee63e5723821f8d616477b30ee7b1
20:31 dukeleto sounds like my use of "index" is confusing to Junio. I think if I clarify that in our git terminology doc, that will be fine.
20:32 dukeleto i think this discussion would be better on parrot-dev. I don't have the tuits for it right now.
20:32 cotto_work dukeleto: ok
20:33 cotto_work soh_cah_toa: any blockers for the release?
20:33 soh_cah_toa cotto_work: nope, so far so good
20:33 cotto_work I like to hear that.
20:35 cotto_work Are there any other questions for this meeting?
20:38 cotto_work Let's call it a wrap.
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20:54 Coke why are we saying "stable" and not "supported"?
20:55 cotto_work Coke: my mistake
20:56 NotFound Some people get scary with the word "support". They have nightmares on receiving technical support calls at midnight.
20:56 cotto_work "supported" is what our support policy refers to, so that's the term we should be using
20:57 NotFound consistency++
21:00 cotto_work yes
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