Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #parrotsketch, 2011-09-27

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
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18:51 whiteknight WHAT I DID:
18:51 whiteknight * Random Rosella work.
18:51 whiteknight * Adding a few more features to Jaesop.
18:51 whiteknight * Working on a precise GC prototype. Not quite happy with it yet.
18:51 whiteknight * Played around with the GC API, trying to cut out pointers. Got stuck and gave up for now
18:51 whiteknight WHAT I WILL DO:
18:51 whiteknight * Continue work on GC
18:51 whiteknight EOR
19:01 Util Win32 notice: MinGW GCC 4.6.1 is now available via the TDM project at http://tdm-gcc.tdragon.net/
19:01 Util # Done:
19:01 Util * Updated GCC to 4.6.1 on my Win32 box, but have not compiled Parrot yet.
19:01 Util # Plan to do:
19:01 Util * Nothing next week
19:01 Util # Blockers
19:02 Util * $WORK, travel
19:02 Util # 7-day ticket report:
19:02 Util 2 new
19:02 Util .end
19:05 NotFound joined #parrotsketch
19:12 NotFound What I did:
19:12 NotFound -parrot
19:12 NotFound * Fixed sleep
19:12 NotFound -winxed
19:12 NotFound * builtin sleep
19:12 NotFound * multi modifier, allowing int, float, string, var and class operator
19:12 NotFound for parameter types
19:12 NotFound * minor fixes
19:12 NotFound What I will do:
19:12 NotFound No plan
19:12 NotFound EOR
19:22 Coke too Distracted by $DAYJOB to hack on muddle for more than 2 minutes. back to it this week. EOR
19:32 Tene joined #parrotsketch
19:32 cotto_work hello
19:32 whiteknight hello
19:32 NotFound Hola
19:33 cotto_work It's been pretty quiet, apart from some annoyances about nqp.
19:34 whiteknight which annoyances?
19:34 Util Hello
19:34 cotto_work nqp master breaks with parrot master
19:34 whiteknight oh, that's still an issue?
19:34 cotto_work yup
19:34 whiteknight I wasn't aware. I'll dig into that tonight
19:34 cotto_work no Rakudo release -> no nqp merge -> annoyance
19:34 NotFound The issue with vtable get_pointer default?
19:35 cotto_work whiteknight: it's a known thing that doesn't effect Rakudo
19:35 whiteknight still, it's not good to leave it broken
19:35 cotto_work nqp has a branch that fixes it
19:35 whiteknight oh, okay
19:36 cotto_work in the future we need to make more of an effort to provide a temporary backwards-compatibility shim
19:36 NotFound That is the expected consequence of the deprecation policy relaxing
19:36 whiteknight I'm not sure I agree with that. What would that even look like?
19:36 whiteknight We either have that vtable or we don't. How to fake it without making the whole thing moot?
19:36 cotto_work whiteknight: simple.  keep the old op around until nqp is updated
19:37 cotto_work I don't think nqp cares about the vtable
19:37 NotFound The temporary solution is to revert the get_pointer change.
19:37 whiteknight that's counter-productive, especially if Rakudo isn't using this NQP
19:37 whiteknight or, I mean if Rakudo doesn't care about the breakage
19:37 cotto_work a permanent solution is to give pmichaud some tuits
19:37 NotFound cotto_work: the vtable is the problem. The op doesn't work appropiately without it.
19:37 cotto_work might be tricky
19:38 whiteknight We have the NQP branch, and if that works, then the branch is the solution
19:38 cotto_work yes
19:38 whiteknight Rakudo needs one version of NQP, we need another. Hence, branches
19:38 cotto_work whee
19:38 whiteknight we could also fork NQP
19:38 whiteknight so long as there was an expectation that the forks would stay close
19:39 NotFound The problem is that we can't backport the new op back in time into the parrot rakudo may want to use.
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19:39 whiteknight we *could* make a single patch commit to the old release tag
19:39 whiteknight that's what a "supported" release is
19:39 cotto_work I don't think it's necessary.
19:40 NotFound Too complicated, I'll prefer to revert the get_pointer change until transition period ends.
19:41 whiteknight I don't think anything is necessary
19:41 NotFound Fine for me. This is what the discusion about deprecation policy was about, after all.
19:42 whiteknight exactly. The only important factor is whether Rakudo is in pain or not, and if they aren't it's all good
19:42 cotto_work In the future we should handle this better.  For now, what whiteknight said.
19:42 whiteknight yes, we can try, but keeping Rakudo happy means we can break things when Rakudo doesn't care, so long as things are fixed when Rakudo does care
19:43 NotFound cotto_work: handle it better --> deprecation policy --> pain
19:43 cotto_work NotFound: more like informal deprecation policy.  Note the lack of a chainsaw.
19:43 NotFound Either we have a strict dep pol, or we don't
19:43 cotto_work "deprecation suggestions"
19:44 NotFound If os strict, that kind of things will happen.
19:44 NotFound s/os/not
19:44 cotto_work It's annoying but acceptable.
19:45 NotFound They also happened even with strict, after all ;)
19:45 benabik Could have a policy that Rakudo-breaking merges should be a pull request only merged by the community relations people (or whatever we called them).
19:45 benabik Basically:  Hey, Rakudo, we'd like to break this, let us know when it's safe.
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19:46 whiteknight Yeah, I like that idea. Of course, right now we are in a period where we know it's safe, and we know when it won't be safe (after the release)
19:46 cotto_work benabik: that's a possibility.  I'd like to minimize the amount of structure needed to make such changes while keeping Rakudo happy.
19:47 NotFound If I rememver well, pmichaud discussed the idea with plobsing and agreed with the breakage.
19:48 cotto_work Let's call it acceptable and move on.
19:48 whiteknight +1
19:48 NotFound +1
19:49 cotto_work Would anyone else like to raise a question?
19:50 whiteknight none from me, yet. I'm working on some GC stuff but it's not mature enough yet for feedback
19:54 whiteknight I think this meeting doesn't have much steam left. Quits?
19:54 cotto_work sure
19:54 cotto_work any goals for the week?
19:54 whiteknight none that I can think of. We don't have much up in the air right now
19:56 cotto_work Let's call it a wrap.
19:56 whiteknight okay!
19:57 benabik .oO( A tuna wrap? )
19:57 cotto_work It's a wrap.
19:57 cotto_work Mmmm.
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