Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #parrotsketch, 2011-11-08

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
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19:03 whiteknight WHAT I DID: Started a new branch to port alarms to windows. Haven't had a chance to finish it.
19:03 whiteknight WHAT I WILL DO: Hopefully something. I've been too busy for hacking and I'm starting to miss it.
19:03 whiteknight EOR
19:09 alvis My pre-post report: (1) I've completed a README_revision.pod (general direction-related stuff) and TODO (task lists) and will push it this afternoon;
19:10 alvis (2) Started research on an indexer, which I will write in p5;
19:12 alvis (3) Started a pod, manpage for parrot*;
19:13 alvis (4) Figured out *some*/*more* of how github works.
19:14 alvis That's about it (and I will *try* to get a blog post up sometime this evening).
19:15 NotFound What I did:
19:15 NotFound -parrot
19:15 NotFound * Testing, minor fixes
19:15 NotFound -winxed
19:15 NotFound * Fixed diagnosing errors in constant propagation in builtins
19:15 NotFound * Some fixes and improvements in builtin constant propagation
19:15 NotFound * throw "string" variant now generates throw instead of die
19:15 NotFound * Avoid generating 'outer' in inner functions that aren't closures
19:15 NotFound * Updated and improved examples and tests
19:15 NotFound * Minor fixes and refactors
19:15 NotFound -other
19:15 NotFound * winxedxx improved, closures starting to work
19:15 NotFound * Update and fixed WinxedGtk module
19:15 NotFound What I will do:
19:15 NotFound No plan
19:15 NotFound EOR
19:16 Coke parrot? I remember hacking on parrot. Hopefully will get back to muddle this week. EOR.
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19:30 cotto hello
19:30 whiteknight hello
19:30 NotFound Hola
19:30 Util Done: Nil. Still blocking on $WORK. Working on a write-up of bad testing practices in Parrot. .end
19:30 Util Hello
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19:31 cotto How's this week been?  I see we have a substantial pull request from mls++.
19:32 whiteknight yes, and I would like to get that merged soon. It cleans up exceptions significantly
19:32 NotFound Has someone tested that with HLLs? I've looked at the changes in exception handling and they may be disruptive.
19:33 whiteknight I think mls tested it with Rakudo. I think they requested those kinds of changes
19:33 whiteknight we can double-check
19:33 cotto NotFound: I'd consider that pretty important.
19:34 cotto NotFound: have you looked at the code enough to have an idea of how it'd effect winxed?
19:34 NotFound cotto: I think it will have zero effect, but I expect to be able to profit from it later.
19:35 cotto NotFound: great
19:35 whiteknight from what I've seen, I expect it to have zero effect on Jaesop
19:35 cotto I'm reviewing it now.
19:36 cotto being able to tell github to ignore certain files would be really nice here
19:36 whiteknight yes, yes it would
19:39 cotto are there any questions or points for discusion?
19:39 whiteknight I don't think so. It's been a relatively slow week methinks
19:40 NotFound A note to all: please extra-check not returning NULL in STRING* returning functions, specially in vtable functions.
19:40 cotto NotFound: I noticed that you fixed >= 1 of those.
19:41 NotFound cotto: I think there are more, in places usually not called from pir.
19:42 cotto NotFound: I'd bet on it.  You know what happens when you turn over rocks.
19:42 NotFound I'll try to figure a way to signal assigning NULL to string registers in debug builds.
19:43 cotto It might even be feasible to write a test that does minimal parsing of C to find instances of that bug.
19:43 NotFound cotto: I thought that my opinions about C parsing were well known ;)
19:43 cotto fsvo parsing
19:44 cotto The test would need to look at the function definitions and make sure that "return NULL" didn't appear.  It wouldn't catch everything, but it'd get the obvious cases.
19:44 NotFound For the record, it can be summarized as "Don't parse C unless you are a C compiler"
19:46 cotto In general, yes.  In this case, a quick and dirty parser (balanced curlies + simple string matching) has potential to be useful.
19:50 Coke might be worth talking to alester about function annotations to see if we can leverage that to avoid NULLS coming out of vtables.
19:50 cotto It seems like the kind of thing he might be into.
19:50 whiteknight I'm sure we can use an existing static analyzer tool or the like to find instances, not writing a parser ourselves
19:50 whiteknight reinventing the wheel, especially in this case, might not be a good use of resources
19:51 cotto that'd be even better
19:52 cotto volunteers are welcome
19:52 NotFound Take a look at src/pmc/callcontext.pmc 311 - A function declared PARROT_CANNOT_RETURN_NULL that has a return NULL;
19:53 Coke "whoops!"
19:54 cotto perhaps our annotations aren't being honored as much as we thought they were
19:55 NotFound I think I can be able to trigger some segfault from a hand instantiated CallContext
19:58 NotFound Here is: winxed -e 'var cc = new ["CallContext"]; string s = cc[1]; s = substr(s, 0, 0);
19:58 NotFound '
19:58 cotto That's pretty great.
19:59 NotFound Design decision: should we return STRINGNULL or throw an exception?
20:00 cotto It's charming that the comment before return NULL; says /* exception */
20:01 NotFound A segfault is a notable exception in the code flow, that's right.
20:01 cotto so the system works, I guess
20:01 cotto except not really
20:02 NotFound Maybe we can add a new decoration: PARROT_CANNOT_RETURN_NULL___SOMETIMES
20:04 cotto thinking
20:06 cotto I'm leaning toward throwing an exception in that case.
20:07 cotto thoughts?
20:08 NotFound I haven't looked enough at the uses of CallContext from PCC, but I think the exception is the better solution.
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20:08 cotto NotFound: alright.  If you have the tuits to implement it, +1.
20:09 NotFound An assertion in usages from PCC will be fine, but not inside the CallContext PMC, because it can be legitimally called from pir.
20:11 cotto Is there anything else we should discuss?
20:12 cotto btw, after testing HLLs with mls++' branch, please note in the pull request that the hll works with the branch.
20:16 cotto Let's call this #ps a wrap.
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