Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #parrotsketch, 2013-10-08

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Time Nick Message
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19:29 Util Pre-report:
19:29 Util # Done:
19:30 rurban joined #parrotsketch
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19:30 Util * Abandoned plan for September Parrot release
19:30 Util + because it is October :^(
19:30 Util * Fixed `make fulltest` examples fail spotted by jkeenan++
19:30 Util # Doing:
19:30 Util * Prepping for GSoC Mentor Summit
19:31 Util + Potential talk (Unconference)
19:31 Util + Stickers
19:31 Util * Helping prep of October Parrot release.
19:31 Util * Starting to help with new-packfile-api branch.
19:31 Util + FYI: contention exists regarding the timing of this branch-merge vs Release schedule.
19:31 Util .end
19:33 sa1 Util: hello
19:33 rurban Tested and fixed new-packfile-api (ready to be merged) and readall on eof (this being merged)
19:33 Util Hello! Who all is in attendance?
19:33 sa1 I've spent some time reading, so no new updates
19:34 sa1 I'd like to mention however, that GSoC 2014 has been announced already.
19:34 rurban icu detection broken with debian testing, postponed after 5.9
19:36 Util rurban: Do you own that ICU-detect bug? (i.e. are you fixing it, or just reporting it?)
19:37 Zefram joined #parrotsketch
19:37 rurban I reported it, and probably I'm the only one who can repro and fix it. But I have no time right now
19:37 Util sa1: Great news!
19:38 rurban typically not_gerd beats me
19:39 Util Left out of my pre-report: # Done: Helped Zefram to flesh-out and report 20+ more bugs. .end
19:39 Util rurban: I understand. Thanks!
19:39 rurban Util: very good stuff in there. We should probably discuss this also
19:41 Util rurban: I missed getting the Priority-tag that Zefram gave them into the tickets, and have just started adding that info.
19:41 Util rurban: Do you have any favorites to discuss?
19:42 rurban The only conflicti e non-consense I see is the recursion limit
19:43 rurban I'm for keeping 1000 as default. Zefram is against it.
19:43 pmichaud iirc, the low recursion limit was set on purpose so that developers would quickly know when they had a recursion problem
19:43 pmichaud and that stable language platforms could then raise the limit as appropriate
19:44 rurban Agreed. The rest seems to be consensual, we just need devs to pick it up :)
19:44 pmichaud so, for example, one of the first things that Rakudo does when it initializes is to bump up the recursion limit
19:46 Util pmichaud: That was my take on the r.limit decision. It really boils down to whether you view PIR&Parrot as something to implement general-purpose code in, vs a platform for building&running Languages.
19:47 rurban One more conflict of interests #1008: Stylistic issue. The bad parrot ops compiler adds superfluous (()) to logical checks. parrot langs on clang need to use -Wno-parentheses-equality then or we find a way to improve the compiler
19:52 Util rurban: I am in favor of improving the compiler. It is not trivial, but neither a *deep* problem, and will resolve some of our outstanding Coverity bugs.
19:54 rurban I was also in favor when I trampled into this clang problem last year. But it was not that easy :)
19:56 Util rurban: OK, lets bring this back up after the release, when we have had time to look at that part of the compiler code again.
19:59 Util If we cannot resolve it by end-of-October, we should implement -Wno-parentheses-equality, at least temporarily.
19:59 rurban We already do. The problem is only at nqp, which doesn't take over this flag
20:00 rurban nqp is pretty sloppy regarding warnings and strictness. g++ compilation is e.g. impossible
20:02 pmichaud can that statement be made a little more precise, please?
20:02 pmichaud I'm totally confused by it.
20:03 rurban try a parrot compiled with g++ and see the nqp compilation errors
20:03 pmichaud nqp, or nqp-rx ?
20:03 rurban nqp. nqp-rx is fine
20:03 pmichaud iirc, nqp just grabs the flags it's using from parrot config
20:04 rurban yes, and then it runs into nqp coding_std problems
20:04 pmichaud feel free to file nqpissues for it, then
20:05 pmichaud (and if you have already, thanks)
20:05 rurban yes, I'll try to properly repro it now. I just stumbled upon this while testing the new packfile-api on nqp
20:06 pmichaud new packfile-api with nqp is going to require a lot of intricate bootstrapping help
20:06 pmichaud it's not at all going to be a matter of simply rebuilding nqp on the new parrot
20:06 pmichaud (because nqp is built from an older version of nqp, which will require the older parrot)
20:07 rurban I see. I did: perl Configure.pl --without-icu --cc=g++ --link=g++
20:07 pmichaud for parrot or nqp?
20:07 pmichaud I guess for parrot.
20:08 rurban Yes, The nqp problem was with -fpermissive
20:09 pmichaud trying to build nqp now via g++
20:09 Util Are we agreed to hold *both* parts of the new-packfile-api merge until after the October release?
20:09 rurban like nqp_ops.c:11937:47: warning: invalid conversion from ‘void*’ to ‘char*’ [-fpermissive]
20:10 rurban I don't care. I would vote to merge both before
20:10 pmichaud "both parts"?
20:11 rurban pf api and eval removal
20:11 Util rurban is correct about "both parts"
20:11 rurban eval removal is the last commit in that branch, so we could keep eval for one more round
20:11 pmichaud oh, I didn't know there was an option to keep eval.
20:11 pmichaud if both can coexist, it makes the nqp bootstrap easier.
20:11 rurban there is, but I don't like it
20:12 pmichaud (until it's completed)
20:12 rurban pick b77f276 Add Parrot_pf_single_sub_by_tag() to packfile API. Additionally, add method first_sub_in_const_table() to PackfileView PMC as
20:12 rurban pick 2c730f5 Enable new API by returning PackfileView instead of Eval from IMCCompiler
20:12 rurban pick 8e7165b Use new packfile API
20:12 rurban #pick e38b4cb Remove Eval PMC
20:12 rurban pick d40e79e [coding_std] minor #937 issues
20:14 rurban d40e79e also needs to be changed. I'm testing that now
20:14 Util I had proposed (in #parrot) splitting the branch into pre-release and post-release merges. However, holding it all off for just one more week is more prudent.
20:16 * Util is straddling the line as a former Release Manager, but not the RM for *this* release, while the current RM has *just* been notified.
20:17 pmichaud rurban: if I'm reading commit e38b4cb correctly, all it does is remove EvalPMC from the compilation.  Prior to that the "PIR" compiler has already switched over to generating PackFile instead of EvalPMC
20:17 rurban yes
20:17 pmichaud oh, that doesn't help then.
20:18 pmichaud nqp and rakudo expect the result of C< compreg "PIR" >  to return something that produces EvalPMC objects.
20:19 pmichaud we'll change that to PackFile PMC, of course... but there's a bootstrap issue involved.
20:20 rurban like this? https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/a93c7c8bbb183d31dff015541ad150ca195d6128
20:20 pmichaud yes, that's the version that gerd put together, but it's not really "correct".
20:21 pmichaud and that doesn't get through the bootstrap issue.
20:22 rurban but it compiles and tests ok in the old nqp/new-packfile-api branch, even with the kept EvalPMC
20:23 pmichaud then I'll look into it more.
20:23 pmichaud it may be only rakudo that ends up with an issue here.
20:23 pmichaud (which wouldn't have a bootstrapping problem, in all likelihood)
20:24 rurban that could be. I haven't tested that yet. I only had nqp rebase conflicts
20:24 rurban So I only could test gerds old branch
20:25 rurban So I would summarize: Lets defer new-packfile-api to Nov and give nqp/rakudo some time to test that branch
20:26 pmichaud in nqp/new-packfile-api, did you bring it up-to-date with latest nqp/master at all?
20:26 rurban Esp. rebasing nqp/new-packfile-api. There were a LOT of nqp changes since that
20:26 pmichaud right
20:26 pmichaud nqp went through a major refactor about the same time as new-packfile-api was being developed... which is also part of the reason it wasn't merged back in jan/feb
20:28 rurban All nqp tests pass with and without the single EvalPMC removal commit. So from parrot side we are good.
20:28 Util I am enthused that new-packfile-api is getting such attention.
20:28 Util The rest of the discussion should move to #parrot
20:28 Util (or elsewhere; just tell us where to watch)
20:28 Util , so that we can finish this meeting.
20:28 pmichaud I don't follow "all nqp tests pass" because I don't know what version of nqp rurban is referring to.
20:28 rurban new-packfile-api c1675fc
20:29 rurban the old gerdr branch
20:29 pmichaud ...the 8-month old version of nqp.
20:29 rurban the new master not. This fails with missing elements() from PackFilePMC or so
20:30 pmichaud I disagree with the "from parrot side we are good" conclusion, but it's not my call.
20:31 rurban I was only referring to the new-pf-api branch being good or not.
20:31 pmichaud the parrot one or the nqp one?
20:32 rurban both
20:32 pmichaud the nqp branch is no good.
20:32 pmichaud it's 8 months out of date.
20:32 rurban but the nqp one needs to be rebased which is huge
20:32 pmichaud it can't be done with a simple rebase
20:32 rurban yes, easier would be a rewrite
20:32 pmichaud the nqp/new-packfile-api branch has patches to the stage0 files, which of course are completely different now.
20:33 rurban so this is not good. that's why I thought we should wait until this is done.
20:33 pmichaud I'm fine with waiting, yes.
20:34 pmichaud Now that there is an up-to-date parrot branch I can work with, we can make progress on the nqp side again.
20:35 Util rurban++  pmichaud++
20:35 Util Any other issues, before we adjourn?
20:36 pmichaud not from me :)
20:37 Util I will watch for further discussion of new-packfile-api in #parrot, unless someone tells us that it has moved elsewhere.
20:37 Util Meeting adjourned.
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