Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #parrotsketch, 2014-02-11

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
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19:26 Util Pre-report:
19:26 Util # Done: Nil ($WORK, plus weather cancelled my Atlanta.pm talk)
19:26 Util # Plan to do:
19:26 Util * Participate in GSoC planning
19:26 Util .end
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19:31 Util Hello! Who all is in attendance?
19:32 rurban me. not much to report, still busy with the perl5 compiler
19:32 rurban mentally preparing for the release next week
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19:33 Util rurban: Do you need any help for the release? From me or anyone else?
19:33 rurban nope. all clear. I just wanted to fix more issues before, but ran out of time
19:34 Util OK
19:35 Util BTW, where is the best summary of your P5compiler project? I thought I might mention it at our next PM meeting, but I want to get the details right.
19:36 rurban http://www.perl-compiler.org/
19:36 Util Thanks
19:36 rurban or perldoc B::C
19:37 Util After `cpanm B::C` :^)
19:38 rurban after alias perldoc=cpandoc :)
19:38 rurban cpanm B:C will be tricky (20 min. testsuite, longer than Moose)
19:40 rurban no more volunteers for issue fixing? :(
19:41 Util issue fixing in B::C or Parrot?
19:41 rurban re PM: you can mention that cPanel is using the p5 compiler in production for ~15 years and runs on ~70% of the internet
19:41 rurban parrot issues of course
19:43 Util I expect that, as we just saw with Nick Clark, people will work on Parrot bugs to adjust for Rakudo changes, but little else right now.
19:43 Util (Besides us perhaps)
19:44 Util It is a low point in manpower for the project, but I am not discouraged.
19:45 Util Either: A. MoarVM will become completely faster *and* more capable that Parrot for Rakudo, in which case we just keep the lights on until that day, or
19:45 Util B: MoarVM will falter or fail in some way, and some of its developers will return to Parrot.
19:46 Util I am still interested in getting GSoC volunteers for Parrot this year, since I don't know if it will be A or B,
19:47 Util and some of the tasks we listed last week would smooth the way for case B.
19:49 Util http://www.perl-compiler.org/status.html says 5.16 works with B::C, but is not stable. Is this still true? What about 5.18?
19:50 Util nm. I see https://code.google.com/p/perl​-compiler/source/browse/STATUS now.
19:55 rurban I consider 5.16 too instable for production use at all. 5.18 50% better
19:55 rurban for B::C 5.16 passes all tests, but 5.14.4 is still the best and recommended version
19:56 rurban 5.18 has some bugs with the bytecode compiler, which I suspect are upstream B bugs
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19:56 Util Building on 5.18.0 right now; I started it before I thought to check on versioning issues.
19:57 rurban 5.20 is a bit better security-wise, but I still need warnings on use strict 'names'
19:57 rurban which is not implemented yet
19:58 Util By 5.20, do you mean 5.19.8?
19:58 rurban you'd probably need to force install 5.18, as I didn't TODO all failing 5.18 bytecode tests yet. And sometimes bytecode just works
19:58 rurban yes
19:58 rurban 5.19.9 now
19:58 rurban and performance-wise 5.6 is still 2x faster than 5.14 on startup
19:59 rurban I'll profile the phases this week to prove where 5.14 is so slow (loading the utf8 folding tables I assume)
20:00 Util I don't see 5.19.9 in http://www.cpan.org/src/5.0/ l should I be looking elsewhere?
20:00 rurban git only
20:00 rurban not yet released
20:00 Util OK
20:00 rurban but now with full sigs
20:00 Util Cool!
20:01 rurban just @_ is still filled, which is not needed with the new sigs. So it's slower, not faster
20:02 rurban They also haven't deprecated @_ with sigs and no optional args yet. @_ should only hold optional args, not all. my $arg = shift vs my $arg = @_
20:02 Util they will just need to decide on a policy mechanism, to eliminate the @_ issue.
20:02 rurban they decided not to decide (as usual)
20:03 rurban even with new subs which are declared with sigs they keep filling @_
20:03 rurban So it will be super-hard to change it later. Oh my. But you cannot talk to them.
20:04 Util Frustrating, I am sure.
20:06 Util Anything else to discuss before adjourning? Anyone?
20:09 Util OK, then. Meeting adjourned. Thanks to all!
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20:21 sa1 missed the meeting, reading backlog
20:28 sa1 hmm, nothing to add
20:38 Zefram re signatures in perl5, there was a positive decision that @_ setup will be decoupled from signatures.  we get signatures in 5.20, and @_ suppression is on the agenda for 5.22
20:39 Zefram signatures are not a performance feature, they're syntactic sugar
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21:34 rurban I know. Such p5p decisions are questionable and also not discussable in the p5p realm. And of course I see the wrong result.
21:38 rurban With 5.20 people will start using $_[0] for references with sigs, or $_[n] for the rest args, and then 5.22 cannot deprecate it. doing it right from the beginning is the only solution
21:39 rurban and don't introduce another crazy magic optional signature sigil. @_ is enough for the optional @rest args

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