Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #pdl, 2012-07-09

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
01:11 run4flat joined #pdl
01:11 liddle_piddle_bot Welcome back, run4flat
08:36 Mithaldu joined #pdl
14:38 run4flat joined #pdl
14:38 liddle_piddle_bot Welcome back, run4flat
14:40 run4flat Mithaldu, the log says you had something for me
14:40 run4flat was the in the email that you sent?
14:40 Mithaldu just let you know that i posted some on your github :)
14:41 run4flat oh, right
15:03 joelberger joined #pdl
15:03 liddle_piddle_bot Welcome back, joelberger
15:05 joelberger run4flat: is there any dynamic content on pdl.perl.org that isn't just doc reader?
15:07 run4flat not to my knowledge
15:08 run4flat the docs are not really dynamic
15:09 joelberger no but they are dynamically loaded
15:09 joelberger I've just been trying to take a quick inventory of how hard it would be to move the site to github
15:09 joelberger of course it would not be EASY
15:09 joelberger because it cannot be php
15:10 run4flat it'd be work
15:10 joelberger but there isn't too much php that I can see
15:10 run4flat and all "dynamic" stuff is really javascript with images
15:10 run4flat or can be replaced with static stuff
15:10 joelberger that should be fine, I think
15:11 run4flat yes. It's really just a matter of tuits
15:11 joelberger right
15:11 joelberger and I'm not even sure that I have them, but I thought I would peek
15:11 run4flat left #pdl
15:12 run4flat joined #pdl
15:12 liddle_piddle_bot Welcome back, run4flat
15:12 joelberger wrong key again?
15:14 run4flat no, I hit CTRL-W to close my browser window
15:14 run4flat except, the Browser wasn't the current application
15:14 run4flat :-)
15:14 joelberger poof
15:15 joelberger as to the site, I think I have been having too much fun with mojolicious, and I need to stop and get my head back into the physics world again
15:15 run4flat yeah, I understand that
15:15 joelberger my little mini CMS basically works now
15:15 run4flat I'd suggest not working on the website until the rest of the PDL folks decide it's time to move
15:15 run4flat I've been meaning to look
15:15 run4flat :-)
15:16 joelberger I wasn't going to actually work on moving the site, just assess how much work it would take
15:16 run4flat but it's good to know that the move is possibe
15:16 run4flat it's also handy that we don't have any mailing lists through SF.net
15:16 joelberger and it would at least take a small design shift, but probably not TOO much
15:16 run4flat as you know
15:16 joelberger right
15:19 joelberger whats been really fun about MojoCMS (my mini CMS) is that it really relies on HTML5 and external JS libraries, which makes the Perl part feel like the glue again; kinda feels nostalgic
15:19 run4flat haha
15:19 run4flat that's amusing
15:20 joelberger a rather full-function CMS in only 375 lines though ... kinda cool
15:21 Mithaldu mojolicious has me the sad
15:22 joelberger Mithaldu: we've chatted on the subject before
15:22 joelberger is it the same concerns, or has it saddened you futher?
15:24 Mithaldu same as before
15:24 Mithaldu documentation/comments are hilarious and verge on trolling
15:24 Mithaldu anti-cpan
15:25 joelberger IIRC, on the anti-cpan allegation, your example was the built-in JSON parser, which you said was too slow and you wished you could substitute JSON::XS
15:25 joelberger am I remembering that correctly?
15:26 Mithaldu it's a whole bundle of things
15:26 Mithaldu he reinvents wheels, which might be either narcissm or actually valid
15:26 joelberger if so, now that I have really played with mojolicious some more, this seems to be a moot point, you can call your own JSON parser without any trouble
15:27 Mithaldu if he has valid reasons to reinvent, then his improvements/fixes don't flow back to the community
15:27 Mithaldu and he has no reason to reimplement things, since fatpacking is a known and working technique to solve dependency issues
15:28 Mithaldu joelberger: you can tell mojolicious to use a specific json parser for session handling?
15:28 run4flat Mithaldu, it took catalyst over an hour to install
15:28 joelberger hmmmm, perhaps not for session handling
15:28 run4flat on my machine
15:28 Mithaldu joelberger: that was my point
15:29 run4flat so for just getting started, Mojo and Dancer are much better, in my opinion
15:29 Mithaldu if his rewrites (no matter which) turn out to be inferior to other things
15:29 Mithaldu then you're stuck
15:29 Mithaldu you'd have to monkey-patch the hell out of mojolicious to fix those things
15:30 Mithaldu run4flat: Dancer is flawed in implementation, but it is ideologically perlish, so it's a good choice
15:30 Mithaldu and Web::Simple is a really fun alternative you should point out too :)
15:31 joelberger mojo is certainly a top-down project, and I don't argue that that is for everyone
15:31 joelberger but it has some really nice features
15:31 joelberger and I think the argument for single-dist is deeper than just hubris
15:31 joelberger there is an incredible amount of internal code-reuse
15:32 Mithaldu so?
15:32 Mithaldu again
15:32 joelberger it might be very hard to reasonably extract pieces to become individual CPAN modules
15:32 Mithaldu he could've just fat-packed JSON.pm like EUMM does
15:32 Mithaldu and then he could've fat-packed bits of plack and whatever
15:33 run4flat I really don't see why two implementations of something is really terrible
15:33 joelberger I know that it uses EV for event-loops if installed
15:33 run4flat are we so shy of tuits in web dev that we can't have two JSON parsers?
15:34 Mithaldu run4flat: JSON is one standard
15:34 Mithaldu there's no point in having several pure perl parsers
15:34 run4flat well, it's not really something I care deeply about
15:34 run4flat I just want something that lets me get my job done
15:34 run4flat For me, Joel+mojolicious appears to be that. :-)
15:35 joelberger and for me, the built-in websockets are the thing that has me really excited
15:36 joelberger if sri wants to be a little eccentric, but delivers the goods, I can't fault him for that
15:37 joelberger and I know that others do, so here we are again
15:38 joelberger run4flat: the thing I got going is a drag-and-drop "main navigation" selection system
15:38 joelberger works brilliantly
15:38 joelberger that is mostly based on jquery-ui
15:39 run4flat sweet
15:39 joelberger which I see the pdl site uses too, for something or other
16:19 zpmorgan joined #pdl
16:19 liddle_piddle_bot Welcome back, zpmorgan
17:18 Mithaldu joined #pdl
21:10 Mithaldu joined #pdl

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