Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #pdl, 2013-04-12

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:47 jberger joined #pdl
01:22 jberger joined #pdl
01:57 Meiermann joined #pdl
02:06 jberger joined #pdl
12:49 pdurbin joined #pdl
12:50 pdurbin is this an appropriate channel to ask about data visualization?
14:26 run4flat sure
14:26 run4flat pdurbin, sure
14:33 chm joined #pdl
14:36 pdurbin oh good!
14:38 run4flat pdurbin, for what it's worth, my specialty is using PDL::Graphics::Prima
14:38 run4flat as I wrote it
14:38 pdurbin let's say I run curl (or similar) and check how long it takes to download a public web page. can PDL (or anything really) help me make a simple graph of how long curl took to run over time? does that make sense?
14:39 run4flat but we can discuss other things
14:39 run4flat sure
14:39 run4flat well, mostly
14:39 run4flat PDL does not have a default plotting library
14:39 run4flat there are multiple such libraries
14:39 run4flat so the first thing you should do is pick on and install it
14:39 pdurbin quick and dirty is fine
14:40 run4flat do you know much about installing Perl modules?
14:40 pdurbin sure
14:40 run4flat cool
14:40 run4flat Do you have any preference for PLplot or GnuPlot (or, have you heard of them)?
14:40 run4flat if not, I'd say install PDL::Graphics::Prima
14:41 pdurbin i've used gnuplot a tiny bit
14:41 run4flat because it should install from CPAN
14:41 pdurbin i'm think i just want to generate something browser friendly, such as PNGs
14:42 run4flat hmmm
14:42 run4flat so it sounds like you have Gnuplot installed
14:42 run4flat I'd go for that
14:42 run4flat PDL::Graphics::Prima would probably work, but you'd have to have libpng installed
14:43 run4flat and there's no need for us to dig into that at the moment
14:44 run4flat Once you install PDL::Graphics::Gnuplot, check out the synopsis: https://metacpan.org/module/PDL::Graphics::Gnuplot
14:44 run4flat err, https://metacpan.org/module/PDL::Graphics::Gnuplot#SYNOPSIS
14:44 pdurbin i just installed gnuplot 4.2.6
14:44 run4flat great
14:44 run4flat now just do cpanm PDL::Graphics::Gnuplot
14:44 pdurbin i have libpng 1.2.49
14:45 * run4flat chuckles
14:45 chm Is that gnuplot 4.2.6 or 4.6.2?  One is current, the other is old....
14:45 pdurbin gnuplot-4.2.6-2.el6.x86_64
14:45 pdurbin el6 baby, enterprise :)
14:45 run4flat pdurbin, for your purposes, it's a coin toss between PDL::Grpaics::Prima and PDL::Graphics::Gnuplot
14:46 * run4flat looks up el6
14:46 pdurbin centos 6
14:46 run4flat got it
14:47 run4flat so, if you have no preference, but you have a quarter, I'd recommend employing it. :-)
14:47 * pdurbin checks epel
14:47 chm I'm pretty sure that older gnuplots are supported, just don't know specifics.
14:49 run4flat pdurbin, at any rate, once you've picked a library, visualizing the data is super easy
14:49 pdurbin i'd be kinda cool if it were packaged ... I do see https://admin.fedoraproject.org/pkgdb/acls/name/perl-PDL ... (not a hard requirement for me)
14:49 run4flat yep
14:49 run4flat PDL's plotting libraries have undergone a lot of churn in the last year
14:49 run4flat but most of the work are single-person efforts
14:50 run4flat and packaging up the libs just haven't reached the top of the priority queue
14:51 run4flat do you need something that you can distribute to others?
14:52 run4flat and for PDL::Graphics::Prima, see https://metacpan.org/module/PDL::Graphics::Prima::Simple
14:52 pdurbin well, I was thinking of throwing it on this server, and I install everything with puppet: https://github.com/dvn/iqirclog-vagrant
14:53 run4flat I'm not very familiar with puppet
14:54 run4flat if it's not hard to make an install package for puppet, though, I'm sure we could hack together something
14:55 run4flat as to your actual problem, you would need to (1) convert your time series to a piddle and (2) throw the piddle at your plotting library
14:55 pdurbin well, puppet is using RPMs, since this CentOS land
14:55 pdurbin I'm just trying to make it easy (and reproducible) for our ops guys
14:55 pdurbin heh. a piddle, eh?
14:55 run4flat yup
14:55 run4flat :-)
14:55 run4flat some people spell it pdl
14:56 run4flat which is also the name for (one of) the constructor(s)
14:56 run4flat Assuming you have your data in a text file, you could just say something like my $data = rcols $filename
14:56 pdurbin these guys would probably package it for you: https://github.com/repoforge/rpms
14:56 run4flat on the other hand, if you have other means for loading it into a Perl array, then $my $data = pdl(@data) would work
14:57 run4flat awesome
14:57 run4flat I'll talk with them
14:57 pdurbin they're in #repoforge on freenode
14:57 run4flat It would be greatly helpful to have assistance making packages for PDL and various libraries
14:57 run4flat or even just guidance
14:58 pdurbin they'd probably do it for you
14:58 run4flat wow
14:58 pdurbin then you could monkey see, monkey do
14:58 run4flat that'd be great
14:58 pdurbin I'll go ask for you
14:58 run4flat Thanks!
15:00 pdurbin I sent them a link to http://irclog.perlgeek.de/pdl/2013-04-12#i_6696097
15:00 run4flat sweet
15:00 * run4flat checks
15:01 run4flat oh, ha, you gave THEM that link. :-)
15:01 pdurbin :)
15:04 * run4flat steps away for a minute
15:05 * pdurbin isn't in a hurry :)
15:06 run4flat I was just looking over this page: https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups=#!topic/puppet-users/bgfooG7WyKk
15:06 run4flat puppet is written using Ruby
15:07 run4flat so you could, ostensibly, write a puppet manifest that installs everything from source
15:07 run4flat In order to get plotting with PDL::Graphics::Gnuplot, we would need to make rpms for PDL and PDL::Graphics::Gnuplot
15:08 run4flat to get plotting with PDL::Graphics::Prima, we'd need rpms for PDL, Prima, PDL::Graphics::Prima, and PDL::Drawing::Prima
15:08 run4flat I don't think any of those would be hard
15:09 run4flat but I can't promise I'll have a lot of time to get to them myself
15:09 run4flat and I can't speak to any of the other devs at the moment, either
15:09 run4flat I believe that Craig DeForest, who works on PDL::Graphics::Gnuplot, is busy these days
15:10 run4flat and will probably be busy through mid-May
15:13 run4flat so, returning to your first question, yes PDL can do visualization fine, but making a puppet manifest that installs it automatically will take a little bit of effort
15:14 pdurbin so
15:15 pdurbin a guy is telling me to just call gnuplot from the command line
15:15 run4flat yeah, that would work
15:15 run4flat for your purposes, it is probably a better solution
15:15 pdurbin heh
15:15 run4flat you would want to use PDL if you needed to hammer on your data
15:15 pdurbin quick and dirty. like I said :)
15:15 run4flat if you're just visualizing it, gnuplot would be fine
15:16 run4flat well, I thought you *wanted* to do it with Perl.
15:16 run4flat the glue part of my brain didn't light up bright enough
15:16 * run4flat chuckles
15:16 pdurbin no, I just thought this might be a good place to ask (and it was!) that has public logs I can link to
15:17 run4flat oh, cool. Then it's win-win all around. :-)
15:17 pdurbin maybe you'll get an rpm out of this :)
15:18 run4flat and even if I don't get anything for free, at least I have a good starting point for making the rpm
15:19 run4flat oh, Scientific Linux uses rpms
15:19 run4flat who knew?
15:19 pdurbin heh
15:20 chm PDL developers currently have a debian packager.  Maybe we can find one for RPMs?
15:20 pdurbin yeah, SL is similar to CentOS. both are based on Red Hat Enterprise Linux (RHEL)
15:21 run4flat alright, I've bookmarked it
15:21 run4flat I'll install CentOS on a virtualbox some time and give it a ride
15:22 pdurbin run4flat: this will give you centos on virtualbox: https://github.com/dvn/iqirclog-vagrant
15:22 run4flat Some day I'll sit down and figure out how to create an .rpm and a .deb file with a buld rule
15:23 run4flat maybe even an Arch build package setup, too
15:23 pdurbin packaging ftw :)
15:24 run4flat exactly
15:25 run4flat Aston's rule: http://infotrope.net/2007/07/17/elaines-rule/
15:26 run4flat pdurbin, doesn't your system assume I'm already on a system with yum?
15:27 run4flat :-)
15:27 run4flat at any rate, I'll have no trouble installing a CentOS or Fedora virtualbox and running with it
15:29 pdurbin cool
15:29 pdurbin sorry, generating data
15:30 pdurbin you can have it too
15:30 run4flat hmm...
15:31 run4flat if you post it online somewhere that I can pull, I might use it to write tutorials
15:31 run4flat :-)
15:41 pdurbin run4flat: http://dvn-5.hmdc.harvard.edu/data/data.tsv
15:42 pdurbin script in the parent dir: http://dvn-5.hmdc.harvard.edu/data/
15:47 run4flat sweet
15:47 run4flat what does "time" and "seconds" mean?
15:47 pdurbin my guy's on it: http://people.iq.harvard.edu/~astorer/plot.png
15:47 run4flat oh, oh
15:47 run4flat right
15:47 pdurbin run4flat: here's the script: http://dvn-5.hmdc.harvard.edu/data/getdata.pl
15:47 run4flat it's a time series
15:48 pdurbin that png came from R
15:49 run4flat cool
15:50 run4flat I wonder what happened with that jump of 50% at the end
15:50 pdurbin https://gist.github.com/alexstorer/5373015
15:50 run4flat yep, simple enough
15:51 pdurbin heh, philplot :) that's what the p in pdurbin is for :)
15:51 run4flat aaaah
15:51 run4flat I was wondering about htat
15:51 run4flat that
15:51 pdurbin this is me: http://people.iq.harvard.edu/~pdurbin
15:51 pdurbin he works down the hall
15:51 run4flat I wasn't sure if it was being philosophical or something
15:51 run4flat cool
15:51 run4flat well, it's a pleasure to meet you
15:52 run4flat in case you were curious, this is me: http://amaral.northwestern.edu/people/David_Mertens/
15:52 pdurbin run4flat: so I should just use his thing? :)
15:52 run4flat pdurbin, for now
15:52 pdurbin heh. ok
15:52 run4flat if you need to have anything sophisticated and you want to keep it to one language,
15:52 run4flat then we can start working on PDL related analyses and visualization
15:53 pdurbin my guy hadn't heard of pdl. he has now :)
15:53 run4flat some day we'll have PDL plotting to the point that it's a one-click install
15:53 pdurbin so another good thing has come out of this :)
15:53 run4flat right now it's really close, something like 2 or 3
15:53 run4flat yeah, that's great, too. :-)
15:54 run4flat hey... free data hosting
15:54 run4flat that's awesome
15:54 run4flat I need to turn jberger onto that, I bet he'd be excited
15:54 pdurbin run4flat: have a dataverse! they're free :)
15:54 run4flat yeah, I'll have to get started on this
15:54 run4flat and tell my labmates about it
15:55 run4flat sweet. :-)
15:56 pdurbin :)
15:57 pdurbin run4flat: this dataverse network is more hard science-y: http://theastrodata.org
15:58 run4flat I was just about to ask, since the SS part of IQSS is "social science"
15:58 run4flat which may, or may not, suit my stuff
16:00 pdurbin yeah, that's why i mentioned it :)
16:01 pdurbin not that your data probably is astro related :/
16:01 pdurbin run4flat: maybe just play around at https://dvn-demo.iq.harvard.edu/dvn/ and see what you think
16:03 run4flat yeah, I'll take a look
16:03 run4flat Some of my labmates study science-of-science, so the social data could be very helpful
16:04 run4flat and, the data on uploads may also be intersting
16:04 run4flat though we'll have to see
16:04 run4flat pdurbin++
16:06 pdurbin :)
19:34 pdurbin run4flat: better and better: http://people.iq.harvard.edu/~astorer/phil/output.png
21:53 run4flat oooh

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