Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #pdl, 2013-11-21

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Time Nick Message
02:34 drrho joined #pdl
03:43 drrho joined #pdl
14:27 run4flat joined #pdl
14:28 run4flat o/
15:27 lungching it's the famous run4flat!
15:27 run4flat hello, lungching
15:27 run4flat and I don't know what you're talking about with this famous business
15:27 run4flat :-P
15:27 lungching I saw one of your pdl talks got featured on perl weekly :)
15:27 run4flat yeah, that's pretty cool!
15:27 run4flat Gabor asked me to do some social media stuff for it
15:28 lungching sweet
15:28 run4flat I'm so terrible at getting that stuff done
15:28 lungching do you have people stopping you asking for your autograph now?
15:28 run4flat well...
15:28 run4flat not quite yet
15:28 lungching I knew it!
15:29 lungching aw, you got in there before me :)
15:30 run4flat joined #pdl
15:30 run4flat oh, hey, Bender remembered me!
15:30 run4flat :-D
15:30 run4flat thanks lungching!
15:37 run4flat jberger, which pull request? http://irclog.perlgeek.de/pdl/2013-11-14#i_7857427
15:53 mib_1t27l1 joined #pdl
15:59 run4flat hello mib_1t27l1
16:03 mib_1t27l1 hi
16:03 mib_1t27l1 weird ..
16:03 mib_1t27l1 cpanm git://github.com/run4flat/PDL-Drawing-Prima.git
16:03 mib_1t27l1 Cloning git://github.com/run4flat/PDL-Drawing-Prima.git ... FAIL ! Failed cloning git repository git://github.com/run4flat/PDL-Drawing-Prima.git ! Couldn't find module or a distribution git://github.com/run4flat/PDL-Drawing-Prima.git
16:03 run4flat oh, hmm
16:03 run4flat did I typo that?
16:04 mib_1t27l1 i'm checking
16:04 Mithaldu git@github.com:run4flat/PDL-Drawing-Prima.git
16:04 run4flat It should probably be cpanm git://github.com/run4flat/PDL-Dra​wing-Prima/PDL-Drawing-Prima.git
16:04 mib_1t27l1 but seem correct
16:04 Mithaldu or https://github.com/run4flat/PDL-Drawing-Prima.git
16:04 run4flat Mithaldu, is that the proper incantation?
16:04 run4flat thanks
16:04 Mithaldu yes
16:04 run4flat I can never get these straight
16:04 Mithaldu just use the github website
16:05 Mithaldu it's where i got them
16:05 run4flat oh, so just saying "cpanm <paste-from-git-clone-on-github>" Just Works?
16:05 run4flat huh
16:05 run4flat good to know. :-)
16:06 Mithaldu fsvo works
16:06 mib_1t27l1 cpanm https://github.com/run4flat/PDL-Drawing-Prima.git --> Working on https://github.com/run4flat/PDL-Drawing-Prima.git Fetching https://github.com/run4flat/PDL-Drawing-Prima.git ... OK  gzip: stdin: not in gzip format /bin/tar: Child returned status 1 /bin/tar: Error is not recoverable: exiting now ! Failed to unpack PDL-Drawing-Prima.git: no directory ! Fa
16:06 * run4flat scratches head
16:07 run4flat mib_1t27l1, what if you say "cpanm git@github.com:run4flat/PDL-Drawing-Prima.git"  ?
16:08 mib_1t27l1 the cpanm docs say git://....  ???
16:08 mib_1t27l1 nope.. same
16:09 run4flat argh
16:10 run4flat mib_1t27l1, you mean it had an issue with tar, or it could not find the module/distribution?
16:10 mib_1t27l1 fetching seem to be OK (https) ...
16:10 mib_1t27l1 but then it fails
16:11 run4flat ok, it might be faster to just say "git clone git@github.com:run4flat/PDL-Drawing-Prima.git"
16:12 run4flat then cd into that directory and run the Build.PL incantation
16:12 run4flat but if you don't want to do that... gimme a sec...
16:12 Mithaldu i think you can also go
16:12 Mithaldu cpanm . in there
16:13 mib_1t27l1 may be I have old cpanm .. let me check
16:13 run4flat Mithaldu++
16:13 run4flat that'd be even easier
16:13 mib_1t27l1 i've never installed cpan modules from git.. so it was interesting to see if it works
16:15 run4flat yes, well, usually it does work, it's just that I do it so rarely that I never remember how to get it
16:15 run4flat ok, my other idea won't work.
16:16 run4flat I propose 1) git clone git@github.com:run4flat/PDL-Drawing-Prima.git 2) cd PDL-Drawing-Prima 3) cpanm .
16:16 mib_1t27l1 he he.. guess what
16:16 run4flat what?
16:16 * run4flat waits with bated breath
16:16 mib_1t27l1 i didnt had git installed on this box :) sorry for the trouble
16:16 run4flat hahaha
16:17 run4flat ok, gimme a sec...
16:17 mib_1t27l1 i'm installing it now
16:17 mib_1t27l1 and will try in a min
16:17 run4flat wget --no-check-certificate https://github.com/run4flat/PDL-Dr​awing-Prima/archive/master.tar.gz
16:18 run4flat that'll pull the tarball
16:18 run4flat untar, cd into new directory, and "cpanm ."
16:18 run4flat or just install git. :-)
16:18 run4flat (the untar command is "tar xpvf master")
16:18 * run4flat got these ideas from http://stackoverflow.com/questions/837708​1/github-api-download-zip-or-tarball-link
16:23 mib_1t27l1 got the same error
16:23 run4flat invalid tarball?
16:23 run4flat or issue resolving the git repo?
16:24 mib_1t27l1 from the repo
16:24 run4flat ok
16:24 mib_1t27l1 lib/PDL/Drawing/Prima/Utils.xs:17887:6: warning: format ‘%d’ expects argument of type ‘int’, but argument 3 has type ‘I32’ [-Wformat]
16:24 run4flat I'm sorry this is giving so much trouble
16:25 mib_1t27l1 no prob
16:25 run4flat well, that's a warning, that's ok
16:26 run4flat is it reporting the error on line 529 of lib/PDL/Drawing/Prima/Utils.pm.PL  ?
16:27 mib_1t27l1 #   Failed test 'use PDL::Drawing::Prima;' #   at t/00-load-main.t line 6.
16:27 mib_1t27l1 could  I miss some lib
16:27 run4flat maybe, but it seems unlikely
16:27 run4flat try the following
16:27 run4flat "perl Build.PL"
16:27 mib_1t27l1 oo i see
16:27 run4flat ./Build installdeps
16:27 mib_1t27l1 I run this trough ssh on remote machine
16:28 mib_1t27l1 Error:  Error: Can't open display '' at /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.12.4/​i686-linux-thread-multi/Prima.pm line 83.
16:28 run4flat ha!
16:28 run4flat oops
16:28 run4flat so my test is stupid
16:29 run4flat if you edit t/00-load-main.t
16:29 run4flat and add "use Prima::noX11;" at the top
16:29 run4flat I suspect it'll run and pass its tests
16:30 run4flat although... t/01 will die for the same display reason
16:30 mib_1t27l1 i probably can force it
16:30 mib_1t27l1 if it is display err it is no biggy
16:31 run4flat yeah, I think it should be fine
16:32 mib_1t27l1 now that u are on the line if i can ask a q
16:32 run4flat sure
16:32 run4flat :-)
16:32 mib_1t27l1 i think i tested this yestarday.. but anyway.. if I draw a line ..say from x -> 1:100
16:33 mib_1t27l1 and then another one later from x 50:140
16:33 mib_1t27l1 would the graph rescale
16:33 mib_1t27l1 to the new width
16:33 run4flat if autoscaling is on, it should rescale
16:33 run4flat autoscaling is on by default
16:34 run4flat if it doesn't rescale, you simply say "$plot->x->minmax(lm::Auto, lm::Auto)"
16:34 mib_1t27l1 cool.
16:35 mib_1t27l1 most often x coord is a range..from -> to
16:35 run4flat normally, minmax expects the actual values for the bounds
16:35 run4flat but lm::Auto is a special constant (+inf) that gets interpreted this way
16:35 mib_1t27l1 wouldnt it be fast if we pass a range , instead a pdl
16:35 run4flat yeah, lm::Auto is a scalar, not a piddle
16:36 mib_1t27l1 ops I was talking for drawing.. i.e.
16:36 run4flat oh
16:36 run4flat you mean you just want to add a straight line to the plot?
16:37 mib_1t27l1 $plot->dataSet->{blah}  = dsPair  1..100, $pdl_data
16:37 run4flat ok, so you want to plot a sequence of values contained in $pdl_data
16:38 run4flat ostensibly, it could be faster *if* I coded a special case for it
16:38 run4flat though Perl doesn't let me overload what "1..100" will do
16:38 mib_1t27l1 i see
16:39 run4flat I'd probably have to use a hashref, something like this:
16:39 run4flat $plot->dataSet->{blah} = ds::Pair {min => 1, max => 100}, $pdl_data
16:40 mib_1t27l1 np.. just thinking loudly
16:40 run4flat or it might just be better to create a new Sequential dataset, with a short-form constructor like this:
16:40 mib_1t27l1 or
16:40 run4flat $plot->dataSet->{blah} = ds::Sequential $pdl_data, from => 1, to => 100;
16:40 run4flat default from being 0, default to being the index of the last element
16:40 mib_1t27l1 $plot->dataSets->{blah} = ds::Pair '1:100', $pdl_data
16:41 run4flat oh!
16:41 mib_1t27l1 ;)
16:41 run4flat hadn't thought of that
16:41 run4flat that said, my first implementation would be to internally check for strings that look like ranges
16:41 run4flat and then build a set of x-data
16:41 run4flat so, in the end, it wouldn't be faster
16:41 run4flat just more compact
16:42 run4flat it would be equivalent to $plot->dataSets->{blah} = ds::Pair $pdl_data->sequence+1, $pdl_data;
16:42 * run4flat has wheels are turning
16:43 run4flat I might be able to update PDL::Drawing::Prima to accept arguments like this
16:43 mib_1t27l1 ;)
16:43 run4flat though it's already really complicated as-is
16:43 run4flat brb
16:44 mib_1t27l1 no biggy
16:44 mib_1t27l1 thanks for the help
16:45 run4flat no problem
16:45 run4flat :-)
16:47 mib_1t27l1 I asked in the past.. but couldnt quite figure it out..
16:47 mib_1t27l1 how did I do interactive drawing..
16:47 run4flat Oh, I'm sorry
16:47 run4flat I've fallen behind in my Perl emails
16:47 run4flat that was on my list to check out
16:47 mib_1t27l1 without blocking the
16:47 mib_1t27l1 script
16:48 mib_1t27l1 oo ... but you think there is a way to do it in Prima
16:49 run4flat yeah, Ingo had the right basic idea
16:49 run4flat start with a plot
16:49 run4flat create a dataset with one point
16:49 run4flat then successively replace that dataset with new datasets
16:49 run4flat with the extra points added as you go
16:50 mib_1t27l1 u mean just the diffrence
16:50 mib_1t27l1 i.e. the new points
16:50 run4flat no
16:50 run4flat I mean that you data would be in piddles (say) $x and $y
16:50 run4flat initially they have one data value each
16:50 run4flat then you $x->append($new_x)
16:51 run4flat and $y->append($new_y)
16:51 run4flat and then $plot->dataSets->{data} = ds::Pair $x, $y
16:51 mib_1t27l1 what if i do
16:51 mib_1t27l1 append.. like u say
16:51 mib_1t27l1 but then
16:52 mib_1t27l1 $plot->dataSets->{data} = ds:air $x->($curr-1 : $curr , $curr_y-1 : $curr_y)
16:52 mib_1t27l1 oops
16:53 mib_1t27l1 $plot->dataSets->{data} = ds:air $x->($curr_x-1 : $curr_x , $y->($curr_y-1 : $curr_y)
16:53 run4flat I think mibbit is eating your :P
16:53 run4flat :-)
16:53 run4flat i.e. ":" followed by "P"
16:54 run4flat in this code, unfortunately, the old dataset called "data" would be replaced by the new dataset
16:54 run4flat make sense?
16:54 run4flat alas, I have to go in a minute. But here's another idea worth considering:
16:54 mib_1t27l1 oo you mean the line is deleted if there is no dataset
16:54 run4flat right
16:55 mib_1t27l1 no prob.. me too
16:55 run4flat each drawing object, such as a line, belongs to a dataset
16:55 run4flat remove the dataset => remove the line
16:55 mib_1t27l1 ok I will play with it when I need it. and let u know how it pan out
16:55 run4flat other idea: if you know how number of points you will ultimately use,
16:55 run4flat create $x and $y piddles with BAD values
16:55 mib_1t27l1 :)
16:55 run4flat then sequentially replace the BAD values with good data
16:56 run4flat PDL::Graphics::Prima knows how to handle those
16:56 run4flat :-)
16:56 mib_1t27l1 niiice
16:56 run4flat stole that idea from PDL::Graphics::PLplot
16:56 run4flat :-)
16:56 run4flat anyway, I gotta run
16:56 run4flat o/
16:56 mib_1t27l1 ok thanks agin..good day
18:16 run4flat gtodd, are you still getting core dumps?
18:17 * run4flat is still catching up on the chat backlog
18:17 gtodd yes but started an update
18:19 * run4flat is confused by what gtodd just said
18:19 gtodd :-)
18:19 run4flat do you mean you updated PDL?
18:19 gtodd to see if anything XS relasted
18:20 gtodd my system perl was miniorly patched updated
18:20 gtodd so I rebuilt everything
18:20 gtodd will test now
18:21 run4flat ah, ok
18:21 gtodd boom yeah same thing
18:22 run4flat can you repost your paste?
18:22 run4flat The old links from a month ago are no longer live
18:22 run4flat whoah
18:22 run4flat sorry, I just got distracted
18:23 run4flat brb
18:23 run4flat left #pdl
18:23 run4flat joined #pdl
18:23 run4flat is the subject gone for anybody else?
18:23 Topic for #pdl is now Install PDL: http://pdl.perl.org/?page=install  | Book: http://pdl.perl.org/content/pdl-book-toc.html | Mailing list: http://pdl.perl.org/?page=mailing-lists | Pasting: http://scsys.co.uk:8001/pdl | Channel is logged by ilbot2: http://irclog.perlgeek.de/pdl/today/
18:23 run4flat there, fixed
18:26 gtodd run4flat: http://paste.scsys.co.uk/281132
18:26 * run4flat checks
18:27 gtodd not sure if that's a useful explanation/subject ... I did a tiny bit more  investigation (different perls as well as on linux) but wasn't sure this was a regression/bug or PEBKAC
18:28 run4flat when I run a simple test with related (but generated) data, the slice works fine
18:28 run4flat (usually slices croak later in life)
18:28 gtodd yeah on an older perl/PDL on lnux nothing happened ...
18:28 run4flat and when I try to print out the slice, I get "Stringizing problem: slice: slice starts out of bounds in pos 0 (start is 10; source dim 0 runs 0-9)"
18:29 gtodd yeah I think I remember an error like that when I did simlar things in the past
18:29 run4flat and you're on BSD?
18:30 run4flat off-topic: _vicash_, I'm looking into getting a BeagleBone Black for data acquisition
18:30 gtodd yeah ... it is easy to forget that the last element might go beyond the last position (or whatever my explanation was) I'm sure I was doing it all the time :)
18:30 run4flat yeah, sure, easy mistake
18:30 run4flat not infrequent, either
18:30 run4flat I wonder if there's something funny in how BSD's gcc compiles stuff
18:31 run4flat PDL may be making some interesting assumptions about struct layout
18:31 run4flat for example
18:31 run4flat which works on Linux, Windows, and Mac, but fails on BSD
18:32 run4flat though I don't think there's anything in the PDL code that is that magical with the underlying C code
18:33 gtodd run4flat: I say all the time but I'm back and forth from R to pdl quite often - still I'm sure it didn't crash in the past .. most everything is compiled with clang  here now (whatever that means since I'm sure it switches to gcc sometimes) and I was on the alert for errorish things for a while
18:34 gtodd I will see if it goes away with older versions .. if I can get my perlbrew thingies to work I can try the script with various combos of perl/pdf :)
18:34 run4flat oh... yeah
18:34 gtodd errm pdl
18:35 run4flat if previous PDLs work, then that gives us a very good starting piece of information
18:37 gtodd ok I will not be able to do that till this evening or tomorrow but if anything significant shows up I will let you know
18:38 run4flat sounds good
18:38 run4flat as Chris often mentions, it is best to report this to the mailing list
18:38 run4flat but
18:38 run4flat I'll be happy to field it as long as I'm present
18:39 run4flat often, that simply involves me filing a bug report on SF.net
18:39 run4flat :-)
18:40 gtodd for sure I just wanted to know if it was anywhere near being a bug :)
18:42 gtodd If something meaningful (even a pattern of PEBKACs :-) ) appears I will post a PR/bug note to list
19:01 _vicash_ run4flat: hey.. how's it going ? yea i work with BBB's as my day job now.. let me know if you have any questions
19:02 run4flat awesome! will do
19:02 run4flat I am applying for my next round of jobs
19:03 run4flat and I need to start thinking about lab startup budgets
19:03 run4flat and BBBs are way cheaper and less proprietary than National Instruments for DAQ
19:03 run4flat :-)
19:03 _vicash_ yes i agree. but depends on what you're trying to acquire
19:03 run4flat of course. I don't need Giga samples per second
19:04 run4flat I do table-top stuff. :-)
19:04 _vicash_ BBB's can definitely connect to various sensors and I just got a 4x3 LCD attachment to it working with a Curses Perl gui very well yesterday
19:05 run4flat 4" x 3"?
19:05 _vicash_ i have BBB's that run my modified version of Angstrom or the standard Debian Wheezy  running Prima applications.. I have tried OpenGL on it as well but unfortunately TI has not released a binary blob for the SGX processor in it yet for the 3.8 kernel so OpenGL runs on the CPU
19:05 run4flat ha!
19:05 run4flat that's fantastic!
19:05 run4flat :-D
19:06 _vicash_ well the BBB has a mini-HDMI out  which you can connect to a 22 inch TV which you can buy in Thanksgiving time for maybe 150$ .. but you can also attach a mini LCD screen as a BBB cape  to make a self-sufficient device
19:06 run4flat Have you used Raspberry Pi? do you have any thoughts on those?
19:06 run4flat yeah, I knew about the mini-HDMI
19:06 _vicash_ BBB has external power supply option which IIRC RasPi does not
19:06 run4flat but I hadn't even bought one yet, so I hadn't worried about getting a display
19:07 _vicash_ that was a requirement for my devices so I went with BBB plus it has better hardware
19:07 _vicash_ as in better CPU and more RAM
19:07 run4flat yeah, better CPU, more RAM and 2GB on-board storage
19:07 _vicash_ you can budget for a display :) it will help if you want to debug stuff in the future
19:08 run4flat but the multimedia options for BBB are not as nice
19:08 run4flat any reason you don't just ssh onto it?
19:08 _vicash_ well if u want to use it as a video streamer then i am not the person for that answer. i use it as something that i can build devices out of
19:08 run4flat that'll be my use, too
19:09 _vicash_ yes i SSH into it via USB or ethernet and also you can use the UART port which is the best for debugging
19:09 run4flat ok, but you think having a display you can directly plug-in makes it easier?
19:09 run4flat makes sense
19:09 _vicash_ but i have one application where I want to watch live financial data on a TV lighting up a heatmap (built for fun) and for that i needed the TV that i bought.. just an excuse to tell my wife
19:09 _vicash_ so that i can have a TV in my office area :)
19:10 run4flat haha
19:10 _vicash_ yea any X-server apps u cannot view via SSH unless you want slow response over the SSH connection
19:11 _vicash_ and since i was fiddling with OpenGL to make the heatmap do crazy 3D stuff like pop out if %age change > 5 or something u need the HDMI direct output.. as it is BBB's OpenGL runs on the CPU.. now SSH streaming that across will be worse
19:11 run4flat of course
19:12 _vicash_ but other than that not much difference between BBB and say a RasPi.. just a popularity contest and a pricing thing...
19:13 _vicash_ BBB has multiple power ports though -- u can power it from USB or from the 5V DC.. or you can inject power using a 4 prong pinout through a separate board if you want
19:13 _vicash_ depends on what you're trying to do
19:14 run4flat hey, do you have any good references for getting started?
19:14 run4flat any good books or tutorials?
19:15 _vicash_ books ? no idea.. sure tutorials i have plenty of links to .. what are you looking to do ?
19:15 run4flat get acquainted. :-)
19:15 run4flat I mean, not immediately
19:15 run4flat I don't even have one
19:15 _vicash_ ok ..
19:15 _vicash_ yea they have a pretty good wiki on elinux.org and the beagleboard.org as well
19:15 run4flat I can hunt around the internet just fine
19:15 run4flat ok
19:16 run4flat then I'll just start from there
19:16 _vicash_ then there are various tutorials that i have collected for doing basic electronic things
19:16 run4flat I just figured I'd check if you knew of any that were particularly good
19:16 _vicash_ that i can export to a HTML file or something and email to you if you want
19:16 _vicash_ yea elinux.org is the go to site for BBB and Linux installation/setup etc.
19:16 run4flat ok, sweet
19:16 _vicash_ then the GPIO stuff is a separate site..
19:17 run4flat I am wrapping up teaching a first-semester course in electronics, so I should be good to go there. :-)
19:17 * _vicash_ searches for a quick link
19:17 run4flat ah, don't worry about it
19:17 run4flat but keep your thumb on that page
19:18 run4flat so that in January, when I need it, you'll have it. :-)
19:18 _vicash_ http://derekmolloy.ie/beaglebone/ Derek Molloy is hte king of BBB usage tutorials apparently.. i have his link in my bookmarks
19:18 run4flat copied
19:18 run4flat bookmarked
19:18 run4flat awesome
19:18 _vicash_ so for EE stuff you can start there .. later when u need it i can send u the others that i have
19:19 _vicash_ in fact if you just follow that link i just gave you should be fine for most of the stuff since he teaches GPIO programming and all that..
19:20 raptor joined #pdl
19:21 run4flat yeah, looks like he covers some in-depth material
19:21 run4flat wonderful
19:21 run4flat _vicash_++
19:21 _vicash_ run4flat: http://hipstercircuits.com has interesting projects with videos too although they may or may not explain how they did it
19:21 run4flat heh, ok
19:22 _vicash_ what kind of course will you be teaching ?
19:22 run4flat just finished
19:22 run4flat or, finishes soon
19:22 run4flat but just administered the last exam before they start their group projects
19:22 run4flat into to analog and digital electronics, for physicists
19:23 run4flat most of the material was new to me, but I was able to stay ahead of the students
19:23 run4flat :-)
19:23 run4flat learned a *ton*
19:23 _vicash_ cooll.. i though you were an astro-physicist.. how does BBB get applied in that area ? i am curious...
19:23 run4flat and figured out how I could pretty easily start up the lab/experimental part of my research
19:23 run4flat nope
19:24 run4flat I'm closer to condensed matter/materials science
19:24 run4flat but actually I study "Statistical Physics", which is more like applied math
19:24 _vicash_ ok.. sounds interesting.. statistical physics guys get hired in the finance industry to write their trading models for complex instruments
19:25 run4flat here's a classic demo of the kind of thing I study: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1TMZASCR-I
19:25 run4flat yep
19:26 run4flat they're usually quite skilled at modeling stochastic systems
19:26 _vicash_ yea i saw this video a few months ago when i asked you the same question :-p
19:26 * _vicash_ is forgetful
19:26 run4flat haha
19:26 raptor cool.. is the reason for them to sync because they are on a moving platform
19:26 run4flat yeah
19:27 run4flat *and* because the coupling is nonlinear
19:27 run4flat otherwise they would just behave like two tuning forks that are slightly out of tune
19:27 run4flat that is, a metronome is more susceptible to its neighbors' forces when it is perfectly vertical, than when it is tilted
19:28 raptor does this explain why septilons of atoms form a gain ?
19:28 * run4flat looks up the word septilons
19:28 run4flat you mean like lasers?
19:29 run4flat I'm not sure what the word "septilon" means
19:29 raptor i may misspelled it..
19:29 raptor 10^19 or 10^21
19:29 run4flat where is jberger, he might get a chuckle out of our collective confusion here
19:29 run4flat septilion
19:29 run4flat maybe
19:29 run4flat avagadro's number
19:30 raptor 10^24
19:30 run4flat yeah
19:30 run4flat well, the answer to your question depends on what you mean by gain
19:30 _vicash_ also depends on what you mean by atom ;)
19:30 run4flat haha
19:31 run4flat at any rate, simple collective phenomena that emerges out of many interacting things
19:31 run4flat that's what I study
19:31 run4flat lasing is just one such phenomenon, though I don't actually understand the details of lasers
19:32 _vicash_ i know that this is state of the art research but how does this theory get used in the real world today. i am unaware of most of what physicists study except string theory.. those guys are jobless and hence end up in finance
19:33 run4flat heart fibrillation
19:33 run4flat that's due to desynchronization
19:33 run4flat a great deal of neuronal behavior can be described as collective synchronous behavior
19:33 _vicash_ oh interesting...
19:34 run4flat so understanding how collections of oscillators could get into or out of synchronization could shed light on simple neuronal models
19:34 run4flat those are the nice, NIH-friendly real-world examples. :-)
19:35 raptor hmm.. neural behavior..
19:35 run4flat Also, self-organized synchronization could have engineering applications
19:35 * _vicash_ laughs at NIH-friendly
19:35 run4flat think coordinate robotic movement
19:35 run4flat you want something that's robust and dead-simple
19:36 run4flat otherwise, how will they ever become our overlords?
19:36 raptor do u know what could be the principle to cause neurons to sync
19:36 raptor what plays the role of "the moving base"
19:37 raptor is it some sort of internal clock mechanism OR !?!
19:37 run4flat nope
19:37 run4flat i'm a physicist
19:37 run4flat :-)
19:37 raptor ;)
19:37 run4flat ohoh
19:37 run4flat yes
19:37 run4flat that would be chemo-electrical signals
19:37 run4flat but in this case it would be neuron-to-neuron
19:38 run4flat not one-neuron-to-all
19:38 run4flat Also, neurons get tricky because they're pulse-coupled oscillators
19:38 run4flat wherease metronomes effect each other continuously, at each moment
19:39 run4flat sorry, that was a tangent
19:39 raptor i see.. u mean they have connected to each other trough another neuron
19:40 raptor not like the metronoms to a common base
19:41 * _vicash_ likes the coordinated robotic movement application
19:45 raptor how do u guys plot pdl to image.. let say I have 200x200 matrix in which values range from -10 to +10
19:46 raptor how do u scale the values to fit let say 256 gray levels...
19:46 run4flat well, I use PDL::Graphics::Prima, of course... lemme look up the docs for matrix plotting
19:47 raptor i'm looking and there seems to be 2 types
19:47 raptor martix and img
19:47 raptor cant figure out what is the diffs
19:47 run4flat matrix
19:47 run4flat img expects a piddle with three pieces of data for each pixel
19:47 run4flat for the red, green, and blue
19:47 raptor deffs = difference between them
19:47 raptor aha
19:48 raptor matrix expect one ?
19:48 run4flat yes
19:48 run4flat although the ::Simple interface doesn't let you specify the pallet
19:49 raptor i'm switching to Prima... SImple was just to get idea
19:49 run4flat right
19:49 run4flat now, if you use the plot() command in ::Simple, you can specify the pallet
19:50 run4flat whch is useful when you're developing the plot
19:50 run4flat anyway, you'd use the dataSet type ds::Grid
19:50 run4flat and the plot type pgrid::Matrix
19:51 run4flat here's documentation on the Grid dataset: https://metacpan.org/pod/PDL::​Graphics::Prima::DataSet#Grid
19:51 run4flat and the documentation for the Matrix plottype: https://metacpan.org/pod/PDL::Graphics:​:Prima::PlotType#Grid-based-plot-types
19:52 run4flat (there's only one Grid plot type at the moment; a contour plot or gradient plot would be other possibilities, but are not implemented)
19:53 raptor ok
19:54 run4flat too much information? :-/
19:56 raptor so : plot( -data => ds::Grid( $data, plotType => pgrid::Matrix(.. ))
19:57 raptor yeah .. so many moving parts.. have to go back and forth trought  the docs :\
19:58 run4flat my hope was to keep orthogonal concepts orthogonal, but most people don't realize just how many distinct things go into a plot
19:59 raptor I dont complain... divide and conquer is always a tricky approach..
19:59 raptor orthogonal is better in long run
20:00 run4flat The orthogonality begins to make a lot more sense when you start to think of various plot types as "decorations"
20:00 run4flat like error bars
20:00 raptor I do the same ... once u have them orthogonal... then u provide a reasonable defaults... like u did with Simple
20:00 run4flat data points with diamonds, then decorate with error bars, and maybe connect them with lines
20:01 run4flat then it becomes abundantly clear that data and representation should be distinct
20:01 run4flat (maybe not abundantly clear to everyone, but it seemed so to me at least)
20:09 raptor will it automatically "fit for color" or I have to scale the numbers/values
20:09 raptor "fit for grayscale"
20:10 raptor i mean will the values be automatically rescaled to use the whole color/gray range
20:10 raptor or I have to do it
20:12 raptor BTW: there are typos in Simple... u say : ->dataSets{xxx}   it has to be ->dataSets->{xxx}
20:13 run4flat good question
20:14 run4flat palettes...
20:17 run4flat ok, sorry, had to jog my memory, and then I got a phone call
20:18 run4flat you specify the palette in the plot type
20:18 run4flat something like pgrid::Matrix( palette => ...)
20:18 run4flat the thing you put in for the palette argument is something from https://metacpan.org/pod/PD​L::Graphics::Prima::Palette
20:18 run4flat The default is probably white to black
20:19 run4flat (though astronomers would probably prefer black to white)
20:19 run4flat although... I feel like I expanded on the palette behavior not too long ago...
20:20 run4flat oh, yeah, the docs for ::Palette even give an example with a Matrix
20:21 run4flat as to your question, palettes associate the edges of their range with the min and max of the data
20:21 run4flat so for BlackToWhite,your data's smallest value will be represented as a black point, and your data's largest value will be represented as white
20:22 raptor kewl
20:28 run4flat Actually, the more that I look at it, the more that I feel like the palette should just be a subref
20:28 run4flat not an object
20:29 * run4flat ponders

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