Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #pdl, 2014-10-02

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Time Nick Message
01:45 sivoais o/ Just wanted to say hi here. Too busy to talk, but I'm still mulling over PDL-related code. :-)
02:37 jberger I probably should mention for the record that there has been some spectacular work one on Alien::Base in the last month or so
02:37 jberger sivoais++ mohawk++ among others
12:26 azawawi joined #pdl
12:26 azawawi hi
12:42 azawawi it is awfully quiet in here
12:47 azawawi Where is all the PDL development talk found at? I assume it is the mailing list, right?
14:53 sivoais darn, missed azawawi
17:31 azawawi joined #pdl
17:31 azawawi hi
17:31 azawawi sivoais: ping
17:31 sivoais hello azawawi!
17:32 azawawi been reading pdl logs for a while
17:32 sivoais yeah, the mailing list is the primary PDL discussion place
17:32 azawawi is run4flat (david) online these days?
17:32 azawawi cool
17:33 azawawi thanks for the answer. im reading the PDL book as we speak
17:33 sivoais he hasn't been on here in a while, but he responds on the mailing list
17:33 azawawi and i began experimenting with jberger's flot plotting code
17:34 sivoais ah, nice
17:34 azawawi i used to work in padre team and lately i started farabi my web ide experiment
17:34 azawawi im thinking of contributing more to PDL
17:35 azawawi by integrating web-based plots with pdl
17:35 azawawi i remember david telling me stuff about slice output / debugging which i didnt understand at that time while i was in padre team
17:35 sivoais good to hear. Just this summer, I worked on getting Perl working with IPython and that would be useful there
17:36 azawawi IPerl?
17:36 sivoais yeah
17:36 azawawi any links?
17:36 sivoais <https://github.com/zmughal/p5-Devel-IPerl>, <http://nbviewer.ipython.org/gis​t/zmughal/d8a37222c814956aebb8>
17:37 sivoais I still need to write a blog post about it, but ENOTIME
17:37 azawawi i watched ipython videos a while back. isnt it a wiki markup + repl?
17:37 sivoais yeah, but people have been building on that to make some interactive tools
17:37 azawawi hmm i read your DESIGN.md document
17:38 azawawi nice links
17:38 sivoais I would like to make a Perl wrapper around <https://github.com/jakevdp/mpld3>
17:39 azawawi ok devel::repl?
17:39 azawawi how about using Reply?
17:39 vicash sivoais: is someone writing or maybe writing a D3.JS PDL plotting lib too ?
17:39 sivoais DESIGN.md?
17:40 azawawi https://github.com/zmughal/p5-Devel-REPL-Web
17:40 sivoais vicash: no idea, but that would be cool. I think Vega <http://trifacta.github.io/vega/> would be a good place to start
17:40 sivoais azawawi: aaah, from back then. That was my first go at writing one from scratch :-)
17:41 azawawi im not 100% familiar with d3.js but i tried flot.js
17:41 * vicash looks at vega
17:41 azawawi and so far it wont do everything in the PDL book
17:41 azawawi sivoais: i see
17:41 azawawi sivoais: how about using Reply?
17:41 sivoais azawawi: I could use either Devel::REPL or Reply... I just need to have access to a way to enter commands and get back the results
17:42 azawawi sivoais: already done in farabi as an experiment then removed it lol
17:43 azawawi sivoais: i experimented with non-blocking mojo io and capturing output from it
17:43 sivoais Reply seems like it would have less overhead, so I might wrap that next. I'm thinking that getting closer integration with a REPL would let me do better error-handling.
17:43 azawawi sivoais: so it is not a big deal
17:43 azawawi sivoais: true
17:43 azawawi sivoais: that's the wall that i have hit
17:43 sivoais Oh and on my TODO list is getting realtime access to stdout/stderr
17:44 azawawi sivoais: if you treat it as a process, all sort of weird things can happen
17:44 azawawi sivoais: try this https://github.com/azawawi/fa​rabi/blob/master/eg/run_1.pl # :)
17:45 azawawi sivoais: you need to run the following
17:46 azawawi sivoais: cpan Mojolicious System::Command
17:46 azawawi sivoais: cpanm Mojolicious System::Command
17:47 azawawi sivoais: Farabi 0.47 should have by the way the Devel::REPL experiment
17:48 sivoais ooh, nice! I'm thinking that I should make the REPL part a subprocess and then hook into output, evaluation, error handling. It will split up the architecture, but that way stdout can be captured even for subshells.
17:49 azawawi that run_1.pl should do the trick in a web-based environment
17:49 sivoais yeah, I'll give it a more in-depth read later :-)
17:50 azawawi have fun :)
17:52 sivoais thanks!
17:53 azawawi so again ipython is a markup + snippets to run right?
17:54 pdurbin more or or less. you can also use ipython notebook as a REPL
17:54 azawawi i see
17:54 sivoais yeah, basically. It also support a distributed cluster backend, multiple language kernels, and interactive widgets. See the examples here <http://nbviewer.ipython.org/github/ipython​/ipython/blob/master/examples/Index.ipynb>
17:56 azawawi hmm so im on the right track http://feather.perl6.nl/~azawawi/
17:56 sivoais however, they are extending it with a new project called Jupyter <http://jupyter.org/>. That allows collaborative editing through a Chrome extension.
17:56 sivoais Nice!
17:56 sivoais haha, IPython also uses Codemirror :-)
17:56 azawawi you have two real options
17:56 azawawi ace editor
17:56 azawawi or codemirror
17:57 azawawi codemirror is more compact and has a lot of development inertia
17:57 azawawi lately it cooled down though
17:57 azawawi after 4.6
17:58 sivoais oh, if you're interested in how IPython is put together, here's a nice intro <http://andrew.gibiansky.com/b​log/ipython/ipython-kernels/>.
17:59 azawawi so REPL + markdown + inline editing of snippets
18:00 sivoais yes
18:00 azawawi i was thinking of ide projects like a markdown page
18:00 azawawi layout that is
18:01 azawawi so you utilize the "infinite" vertical scrolling space of browsers
18:02 azawawi im not a guru in scientific PDL computing but if someone guides me i can help out in enabling web based PDL editing sessions
18:04 sivoais sure, I'd be happy to. I need to write down some of my ideas soon
18:05 azawawi write them and i will read them :)
18:05 sivoais oh, you should also look at this by run4flat... (finding link)
18:05 sivoais <https://github.com/run4flat/perl-MyX>
18:06 * azawawi looks
18:07 sivoais documents are written in LyX and the Perl code is extracted out
18:07 sivoais It's almost like literate programming, but literate programming can have things out of order
18:08 sivoais oh and look at <https://support.rstudio.com/hc/en-us​/articles/200552086-Using-R-Markdown> and Sweave too
18:09 * azawawi downloads LyX for windows and reads :)
18:10 azawawi so basically an option to read/write markdown which farabi already supports via Text::Markdown :
18:10 azawawi :)
18:11 azawawi and an option for rendered markdown to include run_script buttons
18:11 azawawi and an option to run_all and get the plots/results
18:11 azawawi inline after the snippet
18:11 sivoais yep!
18:12 azawawi and examine PDL data structures
18:12 sivoais the ideas are all related... it's just that a nice unified tool hasn't been made for Perl yet
18:13 azawawi cool im in :)
18:13 azawawi i have a big holiday till tuesday so i will be able to work on it
18:15 sivoais Awesome! No holidays over here :-P
18:15 azawawi https://support.rstudio.com/hc/en-us​/articles/200552086-Using-R-Markdown  # is very useful.. thanks
18:15 * pdurbin cracks the whip over sivoais
18:15 sivoais heheh :-D
18:22 azawawi what about `imag rval(200,200) ` # in d3.js
18:22 azawawi have you seen something that resembles plot_image in d3.js?
18:23 azawawi im a bit confused about what kinds of plots do we need to support?
18:23 azawawi for PDL that is
18:23 azawawi what's the most used these days? Prima? PLPlot? PGPlot?
18:24 sivoais it would probably be best to start with <https://metacpan.org/pod/PDL::Graphics::Simple>
18:25 sivoais and to add images to d3.js, I think you have to get PNG output and use the <image> element for SVG
18:27 azawawi i know processing js but that doesnt have builtin graphing
19:11 vicash azawawi: i think Gnuplot is pretty popular with PDL too... PGPlot is part of the PDL build but limited. run4flat has been working on PDL::Graphics::Prima updates recently as well
19:11 azawawi vicash: i see. thanks
19:11 azawawi vicash: prima is easier to get running
19:12 vicash agreed.
19:14 azawawi so a pdl snippet embedded in markdown needs to display stdout/stderr, perl errors (if found) and the plots
19:18 jberger_ joined #pdl
19:19 jberger_ azawawi o/
19:19 azawawi jberger: been busy working on experiments here & there
19:19 azawawi jberger: now im back to work on PDL :)
19:20 jberger_ btw I'm at work so I might not be tremendously responsive for a few hours
19:20 jberger_ azawawi++
19:20 azawawi jberger: ok any plans to release Graphics::Flot?
19:21 azawawi jberger:  i tried your experimental code and wonder how will you be able to plot something like imag rval(50,50) on flot
19:24 jberger_ azawawi: I hadn't really come back to it in a long time
19:24 jberger_ if you want to hack on it, please do
19:27 azawawi cool
19:27 azawawi thanks
19:32 jberger_ left #pdl

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