Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl.pl, 2013-02-19

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Time Nick Message
11:46 jest joined #perl.pl
11:50 jest tadzik: sorry, że znowu banalnie, ale mam literówki na stronie do poprawy :)
12:43 tadzik jest: ok, fajnie :)
13:28 jest grupa Warszawa.pm, składająca się => grupa Warszawa.pm składająca się
13:28 jest hobbistycznie => hobbystycznie
13:29 jest Wkrótce będzie opcja płatności przelewem => Wkrótce dostępna będzie opcja płatności przelewem
13:29 jest Wysyłamy faktury na życzenie => Na życzenie wysyłamy faktury
13:30 jest BTW, faktury chyba można odbierać na miejscu? Wtedy: "Na życzenie wystawiamy faktury"
13:30 jest PLN => zł
13:31 jest W cenie wliczony => W cenÄ™ wliczony
13:32 jest plus an pre-conference => plus a pre-conference
13:36 jest Please register as a new user and fill the form with your informations => "with your informations" bym pominÄ…Å‚, dziwnie to brzmi (BTW, "information" nie "informations")
13:37 jest We've officially open the registration => We've officially opened the registration
13:37 jest I kropki na końcach zdań :)
14:06 Getty i was no. 2 :-P
14:12 jest no.2?
14:15 tadzik officially registered :)
14:15 Getty yeah
14:15 Getty and i gave in the first talks
14:16 Getty i probably get into the history books as the biggest fan ,)
14:16 tadzik :)
14:18 jest let's just call you an "honorary speaker", like doctor honoris causa ;)
14:23 Getty i must say, i actually hope for getting a chance to make the guest-keynote
14:23 Getty bringing over what is relevant for perl marketing
14:23 Getty from my point of view
14:23 Getty with special effects
14:24 Getty ;)
14:24 jest big thing... hope that the committee will share you POV :)
14:24 Getty i must say, its relative to who else is coming
14:24 jest special effects must occur to avoid PR boredom ;)
14:24 Getty yeah i need sound effects
14:24 jest I'll be there
14:24 Getty and timed light control
14:24 jest strobo?
14:24 Getty not really more like light off
14:25 Getty to show the dark age
14:25 jest ufff
14:25 Getty i mean if we have projector "light off" is relative
14:25 Getty still will be lighty
14:25 Getty just darker then before
14:25 jest ...and there appears enlightment :)
14:25 Getty hahaha
14:25 Getty not really
14:25 Getty the problem is that perl people forgot what they have
14:26 Getty and run towards something that just destroys and leaves behind what they have
14:26 Getty and they should start loving again what they have
14:26 Getty instead of thinking there is something wrong
14:27 jest very mysterious. Don't post more spoilers! :)
14:27 jest I'll be there so looking forward to it
14:38 Getty its actually just a rage talk
14:38 Getty i was calm all the time
14:38 Getty cause i wanted to integrate with the existing marketing movement
14:38 Getty now i feel... "alone"
14:39 Getty and see that i have to shit out my opinion
14:39 Getty AND I HAVE FUCKING LOTS OF OPINION FOR THIS
14:43 jest a lot of emotions here... are you sure they are positive ones?
14:44 jest people tend to take emotional rants to themselves, so make sure it doesn't sound like that. Unless that's what you intended :)
14:45 Getty i want to tell people to get their ass off
14:45 Getty i want to say "getting famous is hard work"
14:45 Getty i want to say that we need to show off and that we dont solve our problems in the echo chamber
14:47 jest honestly, I don't see a problem. Probably I'm a little off-side, as Perl is not mainstream for my earnings
14:47 Getty i must go come back later and explain my position here
14:47 jest sure
15:24 Getty so back, got how much i hate the outside world
15:24 Getty s/got/god/
15:48 Getty so what i want to say, i just do perl since 3-4 years and come from a very big php team, did top100 sites of germany
15:48 Getty and i must say, perl is a wonder, perl is genius, the concep the community everything, it just misses sugar, and this sugar missing is ALL i hear all the time
15:48 Getty there is no shop... seriously
15:52 jest you mean Perl-shop
15:52 jest ?
15:53 jest what do you mean by "misses sugar"?
15:53 jest like, isn't "sexy" for anyone outside Perl world?
15:53 Getty yeah
15:53 Getty if you are business orientated and need stuff you are lost
15:53 Getty perl is a serious language, it expects you to activate brain
15:53 Getty that is not attractive
15:54 Getty not for first sight
15:54 Getty we have like... a huge box of lego
15:54 Getty but not many instructions
15:54 Getty others dont have lego,  but they have working pieces
15:54 Getty magento, wordpress
15:54 Getty Most perl people use wordpress as blog......
15:54 Getty "hello!!!!" ;)
15:54 Getty how can something be sexy, if i just can look at it but dont do anything with it?
15:54 Getty (if you understand)
15:59 jest let's face it: Wordpress is nice. Why are Perl people using Wordpress. Because it is better than Movable Type (I know, either though I'm using MT for my personal blog).
16:00 Getty yeah the point is that people on perl dont accept this as problem
16:00 jest Perl is very, very good with tools built for developers
16:00 Getty and think that renaming perl and all stuff around the impression of the name and the age is more relevant
16:00 jest I know not many software packages built if Perl for non-developers...
16:00 Getty yeah
16:00 Getty exactly
16:00 Getty or like usable products
16:00 Getty that animate people to hire perl guys to extend it
16:00 jest I don't know if you know Lua
16:01 jest For half a year I'm amazed at the pace of Lua being used as a language-of-choice for non-Lua-hardcore developers
16:01 Getty yeah we use prosody
16:02 Getty a xmpp server written in lua
16:02 jest because of only one nice feature of Lua: embedability
16:02 Getty yeah and why not embed it into perl? ;)
16:02 Getty so whatever, the point here is: we need products
16:02 Getty nothing else
16:02 jest yeah... ;)
16:02 jest right
16:02 Getty if people want to attract more developers => make more products and documentations
16:02 Getty if you want todo something else => GET FUCKING OUT OF MY WAY
16:03 jest but READY products, not the build-it-yourself products
16:03 Getty heheh yeah
16:03 Getty also we need GID
16:04 Getty Mojolicious is an evil trap
16:04 jest I don't know how many developers you will attract, but certainly you will shut many mouths
16:04 Getty GID is the idea of remaking something like Mojolicious without being self contained but still offer self contained distribution
16:04 jest with Perl included?
16:04 Getty mh additional optional? sure
16:05 Getty why not make a perl-with-gid think
16:05 Getty unpack, make make install
16:05 Getty all ready
16:05 Getty sure
16:05 Getty the point is: we can offer a package with all requirements in ONE FILE
16:05 Getty mojolicious _DEVELOPS_ towards having no requirements
16:05 Getty we just add a PROCESS to _GENERATE_ no requirements fulfillment
16:05 Getty WITHOUT actually really having no requirement
16:05 Getty as getty always says: I want the cake AND eat it
16:07 jest who do you want to target with self-contained products?
16:07 Getty its just ONE product
16:07 Getty an intro drug
16:08 Getty for those people who are unable to get an environment to install requirements
16:08 Getty (that fits to like 90% of german perl developers it seems, they all follow the mojo path)
16:09 jest do they really have the problem with installation? I find perlbrew+cpanm easy enough... as a developer, OC.
16:09 Getty yeah lets say.... do you see them here?
16:09 Getty <looksaround>
16:09 Getty i dont see them
16:09 Getty ;)
16:10 Getty see it from a user point
16:10 jest or Carton, for already checked versions of packages
16:10 Getty IMAGINE.... you dont know perl, can do you so?
16:10 Getty trying very hard?
16:10 Getty can you do so, baeh english ;)
16:10 jest Yes, we can! :)
16:10 Getty if you are on a common distribution
16:10 Getty you can install mod-apache-php, see readme, and write a thing and see it
16:11 Getty and i mean like.. you know... php contains ALL
16:11 Getty they dont need much, they have no compile process
16:11 jest not really
16:11 Getty they just shuffle all their need in their webpath
16:11 Getty enough
16:11 Getty trust me
16:11 Getty enough ;)
16:11 jest you have packaged Perl as well
16:11 Getty you have the distribution perl
16:11 Getty if you use CPAN you get in troubl
16:11 Getty e
16:11 Getty you destroy the system
16:11 jest as in PHP, if you use PEAR...
16:11 Getty no
16:12 Getty i mean yes and no
16:12 Getty you can just download the PEAR and put it in
16:12 Getty what you mean is PECL
16:12 Getty but if you check PECL
16:12 jest OK, PECL
16:12 Getty then you see that... nothing you will NEED is there
16:12 Getty there is like "cool stuff"
16:12 Getty to make the coding easier
16:12 Getty but nothing that you NEED to go on
16:12 Getty trust me, they stacked lots of shit on top of this fucked up interpreter
16:12 Getty and they add a nice webpage to it and sell it and get rich ;) hahaha
16:13 Getty whatever, but you see the start is different if you analyze it down
16:13 Getty you KNOW all this how to handle perl
16:13 jest CPAN is for developers, agreed
16:13 Getty but in general: if you are using a common linux
16:13 Getty you are doomed
16:13 Getty the linux is NOT helping you using perl
16:13 Getty it should give you instructions if you start cpan as root
16:13 jest you should never do that...
16:13 Getty "DO NOT USE IT AS ROOT, INSTALL LOCAL::LIB, we have this included, just use cpan as user"
16:13 Getty yeah but it works!!!!!!!!!!
16:13 Getty on ALL DISTRIBUTIONS!!!
16:13 jest no!!!
16:13 Getty WHY????
16:13 Getty why i can fire up cpan as root and it installs the shit???
16:14 Getty no fault of CPAN, fault of the linux distributions
16:14 jest nope
16:14 Getty what nope?
16:14 jest you don't install in SYSTEM Perl if you don't need it in SYSTEM.
16:14 Getty hey
16:14 Getty you again know perl
16:15 Getty i dont know perl
16:15 Getty and i got a cpan on my linux
16:15 Getty and i install a package now
16:15 Getty cause perl people told me to use CPAN
16:15 Getty its on the webpage
16:15 Getty there
16:15 jest Because Perl is crucial in the workings of modern Linux distros
16:15 Getty get it????
16:15 Getty how should someone get out of this loop without reaching the community
16:15 Getty and THEN if he reaches out
16:15 jest but who told you to use 'sudo cpan?!' :)
16:15 Getty if you do "cpan Bla" as user
16:15 Getty you get a "permission denied"
16:16 Getty every unix user i know would then of course do sudo
16:16 Getty what do you think makes him think thats wrong?
16:17 Getty the point here is.... that we can fix this OTHER AROUND
16:17 Getty now think about
16:17 Getty you are a user of a product
16:17 jest sorry, emergency call
16:17 Getty and the PRODUCT tells you how to install it proper
16:17 Getty probably with a one liner http:/// | perl
16:17 Getty everyone would LOVE that
16:17 Getty and we can do that, easily
16:18 Getty (yeah sure, no problem about emergency call)
16:38 jest sure, if it's a big product, worth installing stuff like custom perl... but I'd better see sane distro Perls and all required packages inside one bundled product, as you mentioned
16:41 jest "unpack and run" is the best philosophy to catch a user
16:41 Getty yeah sure i just say that we have all the stuff
16:41 Getty that users like from other things
16:42 Getty python php stuff mostly installs without tests (like eggs, tests are optional)
16:42 Getty that is all boosting them to say "thats faster and easier"
16:42 Getty they deny the missing point
16:42 Getty ok, we cant push them intelligence
16:42 Getty BUT
16:42 Getty we can know and dont run tests on specific setups and distribute binaries
16:42 Getty also a missing thing
16:42 Getty that _WE_ are the repository for the stuff
16:42 Getty and not "some distribution"
16:42 Getty you see i can go on and go on
16:43 jest this is not always the case
16:43 jest have you seen any PHP product distributed with memcached, mcrypt or mysql_something?
16:43 jest for serious, repeatable things even they depend on preinstallation
16:44 jest But I agree that providing packaged product as AN OPTION is a good thing
16:44 jest catchy
16:46 Getty yeah you must see
16:46 Getty its not rational here
16:46 Getty RATIONAL SEEN => all is fine in perl
16:46 Getty we have all clearly solved
16:46 Getty you can do anythign exactly how you want
16:46 Getty stick together the legos
16:46 Getty the deploys are clear and sane
16:46 Getty everyone can install a perl by himself, automatize it how he wants
16:46 Getty there IS NO PROBLEM
16:46 Getty .............................
16:46 Getty and still we suck
16:46 Getty hahahhaa
16:47 Getty its.... a magical problem
16:47 Getty you must solve it with magic
16:47 Getty not with logic
16:47 Getty http://www.excusememe.com/pics/imagebase/5216.gif
20:26 migo hi
20:26 migo is venue selected?
20:29 migo as dates are selected I would assume yes, but it does not seem to be mentioned anywhere on ppw site?
20:46 Getty dates are set
20:46 Getty venue not
20:47 Getty and its plpw not ppw
20:47 Getty http://act.yapc.eu/plpw2013/
20:47 Getty why no topic
21:01 migo isn't that dangerous? I mean announcing dates without having venue? I guess that it is easier to find something for plpw than for say yapc::eu, but still?
21:02 migo danger being being forced later to change dates, cause there was no venue available on selected ones
21:09 migo I was wondering also if two days is not too much? I guess warsaw.pm guys have discussed this on a meet, but I'm curious
21:29 tadzik venue is set
21:30 tadzik and two days may turn out to be too much, but we're planning to fill second day with hackathons/classes/etc, so it's only one talk-day
21:30 Getty it is good for booking hotel
21:30 Getty tadzik: did you now reserved the last rooms???
21:30 Getty or do i have to slap you?
21:30 tadzik ey, why should I
21:30 tadzik I informed tjmc about them
21:31 tadzik I live in this city, I don't need to reserve hotels :)
21:31 Getty you said to me last you wanna do it, you never said you just dispatch ;)
21:31 Getty yeah still for guests and anything
21:31 Getty those rooms are awesome cheap and awesome high quality and would unite the people to this hotel
21:31 Getty but ......... WHAT DO I THINK OF IT! ;)
21:32 tadzik dude
21:32 tadzik "awesome cheap" for you is not Polish "awesome cheap"
21:32 tadzik I just spent a week in the mountains snowboarding, you know how much I paid for a room?
21:32 tadzik 55 PLN a night, so less than 15€
21:32 tadzik and it was not the cheapest thing around, not even close
21:33 Getty but its in the mountains
21:33 Getty and snow
21:33 Getty i dont wanna be there
21:33 Getty ;)
21:33 tadzik so when you say "whoa, 200€ is sooo cheap" I curl in the corner and cry over my salary ;P
21:33 Getty 200???
21:33 Getty i pay 200 EUR for all 3 nights double room
21:33 tadzik yeah, this
21:33 Getty so technical 35 EUR / per person per night
21:33 Getty for 5 stars that IS cheap
21:33 tadzik hm
21:33 tadzik okay, point
21:34 Getty oh! it INCLUDES breakfast
21:34 Getty no trick 50 EUR breakfast
21:34 Getty ;)
21:34 Getty i know their tricks
21:34 tadzik haha, I got this in Frankfurt
21:34 tadzik I'm leaving the room, ~10€ in me pocket, just to get me to the airport
21:34 Getty yeah my hotel offered it too
21:34 tadzik "oh hai, you need to pay 30€ for breakfasts"
21:35 tadzik ".......with what!?"
21:35 Getty lol
21:45 jest from my infrequent hotel stays in Warsaw I can recommend youth hostel on Smolna http://www.hostelsmolna30.pl/pl/. 11-20 euro per night (no breakfast). Bear in mind it is a youth hostel, so some restrictions (closing hours etc.) apply.
21:45 Getty I would like to shit in the face of Ovid right now
23:43 Getty social media is weird
23:44 Getty i just 2 days ago my best tweet ever, already 43 retweets... getting more and more https://twitter.com/raudssus/status/303502640304750592

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