Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl11, 2013-12-20

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Time Nick Message
00:55 Will_the_Chill joined #perl11
00:56 Will_the_Chill rurban: I'll message mst about it
00:57 mst joined #perl11
00:57 mst alright
00:57 mst what have you broken?
00:59 Will_the_Chill bulk88: mst is here!
00:59 Will_the_Chill rurban: mst is here!
01:00 Will_the_Chill mst: this is the log of this chatroom which shows what they were talking about IRC stuff today: http://irclog.perlgeek.de/perl11/2013-12-19
01:00 Will_the_Chill oh wait, maybe rjbs did something?
01:00 Will_the_Chill I don't know!  :)
01:01 mst you do seem to currently have ops
01:02 mst I'll summon you an opbot so you can manage it yourselves
01:06 perigrin joined #perl11
01:06 Will_the_Chill yay, opbot!
01:06 Bender1 joined #perl11
01:07 mst Bender1: trust Will_the_Chill
01:07 Bender1 OK, mst
01:07 mst Bender1: trust rurban1
01:07 Bender1 OK, mst
01:07 mst Bender1: trust rurban
01:07 Bender1 OK, mst
01:07 mst Bender1: trust ingy
01:07 Bender1 OK, mst
01:07 Will_the_Chill awesome
01:07 mst Bender1: trust bulk88
01:07 Bender1 OK, mst
01:07 mst perigrin: cheers
01:07 mst left #perl11
01:09 perigrin np
05:42 rurban1 joined #perl11
06:22 bulk88 Bender 1 trust bulk88_2
06:23 bulk88 Bender1 trust bulk88_2
06:23 Bender1 OK, bulk88
06:26 rurban1 Bender1 trust dalek
06:26 Bender1 OK, rurban1
06:26 Will_the_Chill bulk88: now we're all super-cool cuz we have ops!  and also we're 31337 right?
06:26 bulk88 lol
06:26 rurban1 it's against the next netsplit, to be able to set topics
06:26 Will_the_Chill rurban1: what does that mean?
06:27 bulk88 it means we can kickban viagra spam bots from 3rd world ASNs
06:27 Will_the_Chill bulk88: cool!
06:27 rurban1 Will_the_Chill: you need to google that
06:28 rurban1 B::C and B::CC is getting better and better. now also for 5.18 and blead
06:28 rurban1 soon passes the full p5p core testsuite
06:29 Will_the_Chill rurban1: I see what netsplit is, but I still don't understand your statement
06:29 Will_the_Chill I am very glad B::C and B::CC are getting better!  I want to help RPerl work closely with B::C/CC.  :)
06:29 rurban1 on a netsplit we'll loos our ops again, so we will not be able to set a topic. now with the bots we can
06:30 Will_the_Chill rurban1: OH OKAY, see I would not have been able to figure that out!
06:30 rurban1 even ingy lost his
06:30 Will_the_Chill oh!  that's why ingy lost his ops!
06:30 rurban1 ingy lost it, because he left and there was no one with an op left over
06:30 bulk88 I thought the only risk during a netsplit is if a room goes to zero ops, then an user can elect themselves op and seize the room, on the netjoin, they own the room
06:31 rurban1 yes
06:31 Will_the_Chill oh yeah that could be a risk, but can't the IRC managers like mst fix that cuz they have super-ops or something?
06:31 rurban1 yes
06:31 rurban1 but we don't want to annoy them on a daily basis
06:31 bulk88 when you have more than 16 bits of rooms super-ops are hard to find and petitiojn
06:31 Will_the_Chill gotcha!
06:32 rurban1 just came from the Jay-Z concert in H-town. great!
06:32 Will_the_Chill I have mst on speed dial, he is here in Austin with me for the next few weeks, haha!
06:32 bulk88 irc.perl.org is mst's personal desktop, and he runs around with the mod hammer alot
06:32 Will_the_Chill Jay-Z, wow Reini you sure are a cool cat, that is popular music!
06:33 Will_the_Chill bulk88: yeah we talk alot about IRC when he has beer.  :)
06:34 bulk88 why is mst in austin?
06:34 Will_the_Chill bulk88: his close personal friend lives here
06:34 bulk88 ok
06:34 Will_the_Chill he came to spend Christmas
06:34 Will_the_Chill and we are doing RPerl stuff and Austin.pm stuff too
06:35 Will_the_Chill of course!  :)
06:35 bulk88 if I can convince my main freelancer employer to sponsor more YAPC trips I can get more miles to fly around the globe
06:36 bulk88 I got authorization to bill for yapc na and eu 2014 so far
06:36 bulk88 or I could take greyhound :-/
06:36 bulk88 for NA events
06:38 bulk88 there also a way to go greyhound globally, one of the largest container ship firms sells bedrooms on their container ships, although the prices are the same as cruise ship company ships per night I've heard http://www.cma-cgm-blog.com/cargo-cruises-travel-shipping-cargo/
06:39 rurban1 yapc na is florida, should be cheap
06:39 Will_the_Chill I'm planning to go to YAPC::NA 2014 in Florida
06:39 Will_the_Chill to present RPerl  :)
06:39 bulk88 all transocean cargo ships are built with a couple 5 star cabins for their owners, but their owners almost never use the rooms, so they go on the market
06:40 rurban1 bulgaria also, but the flight is expensive
06:40 Will_the_Chill as soon as I'm rich I'll go to all the different YAPC's.  haha!
06:40 bulk88 my bulgaria trip will be through warsaw on polish lot, not a bad experiance on eu 2013, very desoloate but built in the 2000s airport
06:41 bulk88 plus I can sorta read polish so I'm comfortable
06:43 Will_the_Chill I don't see dates for Bulgaria published yet?
06:43 bulk88 my philosophy on a eastern europe trip is go as far east as possible on the transatlantic flight, because your connecting plane will be crap
06:44 bulk88 or the EU equivelent of an AA MD80 with yellowed plastic and misaligned screws on all the wall panels
06:45 bulk88 if you stop in paris or london, you will spend an extra hour or 2 on a beater plane going east, instead take the pride of the fleet transocean plane as east as possible
06:46 bulk88 for going to Kiev UA, I considered Delta (summer only flight) to Prague then Czech airlines to Kiev, but I got quotes of $4K to $6K and it was very hard to beat a quote on that connecting airport out of online travel agencies
06:47 Will_the_Chill holy moley that's expensive!
06:48 bulk88 the price was $2K as 2 separate tickets for Delta to Prague/Czech to Kiev, but then I have to "enter" the EU and pickup my checked luggage and I dont want to play with that
06:49 Will_the_Chill so are there dates for Bulgaria published yet?
06:49 bulk88 the other choice was Istanbul on Turkish Airlines translatlanic then turkish to Kiev, but the plane overshoot as the birds fly by 30 minutes, plus I can't understand any languages on the plane
06:50 bulk88 Turkish also underbid every other airline strangely
06:50 bulk88 so Lot for $1700 2nd class was good enough for my boss
06:51 bulk88 I also had to plane a game to pick the 3 class brand new transatlantic plane vs the old 2 class transatlantic planes they were running some days that had 2x a day service vs 1x a day
06:52 Will_the_Chill wow that's complicated
06:52 bulk88 brand new 787 plane, no window shades, electronic window tint
06:52 bulk88 also I had to see a FA break open the bathroom door on 787 with a credit card :-)
06:53 bulk88 on the return flight the passenger in 2nd class (not economy) had broken bicycle brake handle controls for their recyline and foot rest
06:53 bulk88 and was bitching the whole flight to me and the FAs in non-english (I udnerstood her)
06:54 Will_the_Chill nice
06:54 bulk88 the FAs refused to upgrade her to 1st class since economy was sold out/filled with standbys
06:54 bulk88 i was debating whether to take apart the seat for her (I can do it), but I dont want to get arrested
06:55 bulk88 *take the seat apart and trigger the recyclien in the cylinder below the seat
06:55 Will_the_Chill LOL
06:56 bulk88 in the flight to europe, 2nd class was 30% full, tons of empty seats, in the return flight, every seat full
06:56 bulk88 also enjoyed the scenery over Iceland and Greenland
06:56 bulk88 and plenty of Titantic sinking icebergs
06:57 bulk88 bulgaria yapc eu 2014 hasnt posted their ACT sight yet AFAIK
06:57 bulk88 *site
06:57 Will_the_Chill gotcha
06:58 Will_the_Chill I flew from TX to Frankfurt, that's my only US->Europe flight so far...
06:59 bulk88 eu 2013 was my first time in (soviet, well any really)europe, here is the sofia bid http://www.yapceurope.org/yapc_proposals/2012/Sofia.txt
07:00 bulk88 been to canada a ton of times in my life, but its just like the USA except with all chain stores having different names
07:01 rurban1 joined #perl11
07:01 bulk88 hint: in canada you will be busted as an american because you dont have a canadian accent, also dont goto the french parts without an escort who speaks french, you might be the victim of a hate crime for speaking english
07:02 rurban1 I liked it in Montreal. They were all bilingual
07:02 rurban1 And better educated than the typical american
07:02 Will_the_Chill HATE CRIME for real???
07:02 bulk88 I had experiances with many people pretending to not know a word of english or saying in french they dont speak english
07:02 bulk88 even they all know english from high school
07:03 bulk88 montreal specifically
07:05 Will_the_Chill you mean physical violence?
07:07 bulk88 2 groups, 1 was 2 people, then 10 minutes later, 3 people screaming at your in french, I didn't exactly understand, but there were cuss words involved in, when I and 2 other people were lost on Mont Royal park
07:08 bulk88 screaming while walking backwards
07:08 bulk88 away from your
07:10 rurban1 interesting
07:10 bulk88 no violence, but they walked away backwards screaming in french about anglos
07:10 rurban1 looks like some don't like americans too much
07:12 Will_the_Chill should I be scared of french people, or just push them over?
07:13 bulk88 i have a fear about being in non-english speaking (or I can't speak/understand the local lannguage) places after that
07:13 rurban1 be polite
07:13 bulk88 toronto and ottowa were cool and uneventful
07:13 Will_the_Chill I'll bet alcohol was involved with those angry people
07:14 bulk88 I know quebec provence has strict language rights law, which means you will never see english in public
07:15 bulk88 although those laws also got a relative of mine to pass the Quenbec bar exam with a european law degree so I shouldn't be complaining lol
07:16 Will_the_Chill they are anti-english?
07:17 bulk88 there is a certain point when in a foreign country, where you start to think the people you are dealing with, actively hate you, and generally in their head, they would love to make a YT/Liveleak video of some serious violence against you for being against their beliefs
07:18 Will_the_Chill oh dang
07:18 Will_the_Chill that's not good
07:18 Will_the_Chill perhaps it would be good to be armed and/or have a bodyguard?
07:19 rurban1 for sure not
07:19 Will_the_Chill why not?  if somebody attacks you then you have the right to self defense!
07:19 bulk88 just dont go if you need a body guard or to be armed
07:20 bulk88 in NY state you will be locked up for self defense unless you can prove to a jury you were cornered with no escape path
07:20 Will_the_Chill for the love of Perl, we must go into ENEMY TERRITORY, haha!  ;)
07:20 bulk88 its not austin with no open cary guns signs on all the stores
07:20 Will_the_Chill well in TX we have stand-your-ground but sure, whatever, a lawful/neutral-good alignment such as myself believes in always allowing the enemy to attack first.
07:21 bulk88 in NY state, if you have a premise gun permit (different and more liberally given than a carry permit), if you shoot a burglar in your home, you have to give the jury a blue print of your house, and show how you couldn't leave through the backyard door
07:22 rurban1 nobody will attack you. only in the US someone might attack you
07:22 rurban1 most other countries are peaceful
07:22 rurban1 even if they don't like english speaking people
07:23 bulk88 in NYC, almost nobody can get a carry permit unless you know the mayors cell number, but premise permits for your house are possible as long as you pass a background check
07:24 bulk88 dont think of setting up a firing range in your basement because you will get a dozen 911 calls
07:25 Will_the_Chill rurban1: is it like David Bowie says?  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FEypM_BRe5Y
07:25 Will_the_Chill I like guns.  I like Texas.  YEE-HAW!!!!
07:25 bulk88 I've tried reading bulgarian and I get 40% of the words, so Im going
07:25 Will_the_Chill *fires guns into the air freely*
07:26 rurban1 you should be more afraid of the bulgarian right wing mafia
07:26 rurban1 which are pretty much as dangerous as US cops
07:27 bulk88 that is an issue in all iron curtain countries
07:27 rurban1 racist and gun crazy
07:27 Will_the_Chill yeah US cops are pretty dangerous to most everyone except the most clean-cut upper-class white males
07:27 Will_the_Chill which is a good reason to be a Boy Scout!  :)
07:27 bulk88 lol, i saw your uniform
07:28 Will_the_Chill oh, where?
07:28 bulk88 yapca na 13
07:28 Will_the_Chill ah, nice!
07:28 rurban1 bulk88 was in Austin
07:28 Will_the_Chill oh dang I didn't see you in person!
07:28 Will_the_Chill ah well, next time
07:28 rurban1 I believe you saw him. you were in the same room a couple of times
07:29 Will_the_Chill Reini was telling me all about who's-who at YAPC::NA 2013
07:29 Will_the_Chill is there an online photo of bulk88 somewhere?
07:29 bulk88 no comment
07:29 rurban1 hmm, guess not
07:29 rurban1 long dark hair
07:29 bulk88 I should put a pic on my FB one day
07:30 Will_the_Chill LONG DARK HAIR that's half the conference attendees, haha!  ;)
07:30 bulk88 im usually against social media, so I try to keep off sharing info for no reason at all, I know this room is logged forever
07:30 Will_the_Chill dude you should friend me!   https://www.facebook.com/wnbjr
07:30 Will_the_Chill then I'll spam you about RPerl forever, haha!  ;)
07:30 Will_the_Chill (just kidding about the spam)
07:32 rurban1 will: B::CC -O2 has now working stack aelem optimizations. not -funroll-loops yet.
07:32 bulk88 I'm wondering if its worth asking my primary boss to fund a Perl Oasis 2014
07:32 bulk88 the ACT for it went up for it recently
07:33 bulk88 but its being called a "Perl Oasis West"
07:33 rurban1 New York would be super. Cheap flights, just hotels are expensive
07:33 bulk88 this year because NA is in the normal Oasis City
07:33 rurban1 YAPC NA 15 in NY
07:33 rurban1 please
07:33 rurban1 Jim Keenan would manage this
07:34 bulk88 dead hookers in garbage bags under your bedas recent as in the 2000s if you want a decently priced hotel in manhattan http://carterhotel.com/index.html
07:34 rurban1 there are a lot of perl shops in NY. you can also ask rafl for help
07:34 bulk88 cockroaches, mold, and lead paint for $129/night
07:35 rurban1 I'm more concerned about bed bugs in NY
07:35 Will_the_Chill bulk88: so you're saying NY is not good for YAPC because it is either gross or expensivve?
07:35 bulk88 expensive
07:35 bulk88 a YAPC NA in NY would take place in Nassau county or New Jersey actually
07:35 rurban1 but flights are much cheaper, and the city is better than most others
07:35 bulk88 or Westchester County
07:36 rurban1 what? not nassau. columbia please
07:36 rurban1 some manhattan university
07:36 Will_the_Chill I used to live in Jersey.  ugh.  7 years.
07:36 rurban1 or at least brooklyn for an oasis
07:36 bulk88 columbia county is in the middle of no where NY state, I'd like to seceede if possible from corn country
07:37 rurban1 columbia university, downtown (central park)
07:37 bulk88 NYC has a high sales tax on hotels
07:37 rurban1 40th or so
07:37 bulk88 JFK has almost no hotels around it, which is insane for such a large airport
07:38 bulk88 la guardia, has more, some of them are a rip off for being labeled "airport" they are 20 blocks away
07:38 rurban1 but you can get cheaper rooms with this new room-rent website, the ny city police is targeting for tax avoidance
07:38 Will_the_Chill rurban1: I just realized that typemap's XS_pack_*() and XS_unpack_*() do NOT use the subject-predicate naming order convention you have put forth
07:38 bulk88 you can't seriously list that as an official yapc hotel
07:38 rurban1 airbnb.com
07:38 bulk88 NO!
07:38 bulk88 ;-)
07:39 Will_the_Chill I have already changed my code to use subject-predicate order but XS_pack* will not be able to change
07:39 rurban1 perl is different and old
07:39 Will_the_Chill OLD!
07:39 Will_the_Chill *sigh*
07:40 rurban1 super nice loft rooms for 85 lower east. https://www.airbnb.com/s/New-York-City?room_types%5B%5D=Private+room&price_min=45&price_max=155
07:41 bulk88 NO!
07:41 bulk88 the XS_pack typemap entries are nonsensical
07:41 bulk88 you have to define the functions
07:42 bulk88 I've considered deprecating/removing them from the default typemap since nothing on cpan grep is known to use them
07:42 Will_the_Chill bulk88: you can see in the RPerl source that I've long-since re-written all my own XS_* functions!
07:43 Will_the_Chill my complaint is that typemap automatically looks for XS_pack_MYTYPE() and XS_unpack_MYTYPE()
07:43 mirjam joined #perl11
07:43 Will_the_Chill which are predicate-subject naming order instead of subject-predicate naming order
07:43 Will_the_Chill and Reini told me to change everything to subject-predicate but I can't change XS_*()!
07:43 rurban1 perl itself is functional and untyped. they favor predicates over subject types. they do it untyped (SV*) checking types in the predicate
07:44 bulk88 I've considered proposing (informally) this space http://www.nysci.org/the-auditorium/ as a YAPC NA place, I've been to that place a number of times for an event much larger than YAPC, but that auditorium is small for lightning talks or keynotes
07:44 rurban1 we prefer typed methods (optimized)
07:44 rurban1 hmm 310 only. might be too small for us
07:44 Will_the_Chill in RPerl's 3 ops_data modes, the type-checking occurs at 3 different times, but it still occurs!  :)
07:45 rurban1 we need space for at least 450
07:45 rurban1 but queens is okay too
07:45 bulk88 http://www.bklynpubliclibrary.org/sites/default/files/images/branch/central/rental2_large.jpg 189 rates for
07:46 bulk88 TPF is non-profit registered so it wouldn't be impossible
07:46 bulk88 the 450 auditorium is the problem
07:46 bulk88 tents with a folding table of food is enough for the talks, but the keynote space is the biggest limiter
07:47 rurban1 we only need a big rooms for the first, last event, and the evenings
07:47 rurban1 in austin we walked over
07:47 bulk88 but that is within the same property and landlord
07:48 bulk88 what about an ex-movie theater or a church?
07:48 Will_the_Chill in Austin the walking distance was just between two adjacent buildings
07:48 rurban1 the brooklyn library looks also good. but universities would be much better. we usually do it on holidays, so they are free
07:48 bulk88 NYC universities require iris scans to get on campus
07:49 bulk88 for special events, Securitas guards put drivers licenses under UV lights at a table you the organizer (and student organization) have to pay a $/hr/fee for
07:51 bulk88 I've played with a NYC urban university and getting outsiders onto/into campus, you will have to post a registered student at the door to sign in every guest into the log book every time they walk through a door
07:51 bulk88 they think a bum or a serial killer or rapist will walk through a door
07:51 Will_the_Chill wow
07:52 Will_the_Chill they need a bunch of rednecks with guns like we have here, problem solved!  ;)
07:52 bulk88 giving the guards a guest list of driver license names doesn't work since your cell will be ringing with people bitching about the guards not letting them in and you will have to take the elevator and have over your student ID to the guards to get your guest on campus
07:52 bulk88 if a student signs in a serial killer, its not a problem tho
07:53 bulk88 I once played the game to get dozens of HS students onto campus for something
07:54 bulk88 in one other case, a convention rented the university's gym, there were separate ropes to the gym through the hallways, and a guard sitting at every unalarmed fire door into the main hallway of the university from the gym
07:55 Will_the_Chill paranoia
07:55 bulk88 there were even a couple guards sitting on the catwalk of the gym in the air
07:55 Will_the_Chill totally unnecessary as long as all the cowboys and rednecks are armed and obvious
07:57 Will_the_Chill rurban1: why does dalek keep changing the channel limit?
07:58 bulk88 there are some universities in NYC that are "suburban" and I can walk into a classroom without passing any guards, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queens_College,_City_University_of_New_York is an example, but I dont have any hookup with them
07:58 rurban1 interesting
07:58 rurban1 have to sleep now, bye
07:58 Will_the_Chill okay bye!
07:59 bulk88 NYC's municipal funded univeristy system's engineering school City Tech is guarded and ID swiped to death tho http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/City_Tech
07:59 bulk88 it has an "urban" high rise campus
08:00 bulk88 Queens Colledge can get a serial killer who shoots the whole class tho, only the library and gym require ID
08:00 bulk88 same university system
08:00 rurban1 we definitely need a serial-killer friendly place
08:01 bulk88 NYU is ID scanned to death
08:01 rurban1 maybe sharp shooters also
08:01 Will_the_Chill yeah sharp-shooters!
08:01 Will_the_Chill as long as they're the good guys and not the bad guys
08:01 rurban1 like a sports arena
08:02 bulk88 because many universities in NYC have paranoid access restrictions, that leaves hotels, churches, libraries as venues
08:03 Will_the_Chill I like churches
08:03 Will_the_Chill :)
08:03 bulk88 churches/ex-movie theaters have shitty accomidations (a lil too dilapidated), and religious problems, that leaves hotels at the typical "not a university" venue
08:03 Will_the_Chill but that's probably just me.  and Saint Larry.
08:04 bulk88 hotels are only cheap outside NYC's borders
08:04 Will_the_Chill is it rude of me to say that I don't like NYC?
08:04 basiliscos joined #perl11
08:04 bulk88 TPF would never approve
08:04 bulk88 "flash mob yapc"
08:05 bulk88 not rude at all, a family member of mine was sent to a end of life hospice center from a mugging, so deathwish 1 is completly accurate of NYC at that time
08:05 Will_the_Chill yeah deathwish  XD
08:06 Will_the_Chill I lived in Brooklyn for a few weeks.  Not good.
08:06 Will_the_Chill I did NYC tourism as well many times.  Also not great.
08:07 Will_the_Chill I stayed with a friend in Brooklyn back in 1997 or so
08:07 Will_the_Chill don't remember the exact location
08:07 bulk88 :-(
08:08 Will_the_Chill kindof a rough place IIRC
08:08 Will_the_Chill I should've been armed but I wasn't
08:08 bulk88 there are too many rough places for me to guess
08:08 Will_the_Chill there was a definite air of danger at all times
08:08 bulk88 any burned out buildings?
08:08 Will_the_Chill I don't remember burned-out buildings
08:09 Will_the_Chill it was a high-rise apartment
08:09 bulk88 high rise apartments are really hit or miss in NYC
08:09 Will_the_Chill yeah this was like you-might-get-mugged-in-the-stairwell
08:10 bulk88 coops will be as clean as a church of sin, other apartment buildings target luxury market, or section 8 market (bad)
08:10 bulk88 section 8 buildings are run worse than public housing actually
08:10 bulk88 since you can sue the public housing authority and get results
08:11 bulk88 a building to think twice about is, if it has a majority of section 8 tenants, but it got a new landlord that wants to convert it to middle class market prices
08:11 bulk88 I had to negotiate a lease in a building like that for retail space, the lease died then the LL "found asbestos"
08:12 Will_the_Chill dang that sounds crappy
08:13 bulk88 the funny thing was, for residential tenants in the tower, the LL ripped up carpet for tenants all the time (between every tenant change actually), but was going to include a clause saying it won't allow the carpet to be replaced in the ex-retail space, and was going to enforce it
08:14 bulk88 the dumpster on campus was full of carpet
08:14 bulk88 in other retail spaces that were "rebuilt" in the 2000s, the floor was fresh, so carpet was torn up
08:15 bulk88 and any asbestos linoleum tile
08:16 bulk88 the business I was moving moved into a traditional office building instead for slightly higher rent after wasting time on this section 8 conversion building
08:16 Will_the_Chill well that's just weird
08:16 bulk88 the LL wasn't a person, it was an REIT that owned 100s of buildings
08:17 bulk88 the Super lived 80 miles away
08:17 Will_the_Chill oh dang
08:22 bulk88 the apartment complex was originally built as 2 3 pronged towers in a park under a state subsized mortgage in exchange for section 8 qualification for all apartments, the low income rent require expired in the late 1990s since the gocvt mortage was paid off and the building was sold to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AvalonBay_Communities , under the coulple years Avalon controlled the comples,
08:22 bulk88 they threw money into all common spaces, but couldn't really get rid of the section 8 tenants, or convince the public this was now a "luxury" building
08:24 bulk88 Avalon tried to increase the revenue by renting apartments to, I dont remember the real estate term for this, a large corporate employer would rent the apartments on a 1 or multi year basis, fully furnished and cleaned by the LL between guests
08:25 Will_the_Chill huh
08:25 Will_the_Chill is this all good or bad?
08:26 bulk88 but ultimately Avalon couldn't change the image of the complex, so they sold it to another REIT I can't mention by name, the new REIT's goal was to not really spend any money (and they refused to use their name on the complex, they invented a new name for it that had no relation to the Avalon name or their own anme), and they admited it to me it wasn't the best real estate in town
08:26 bulk88 they did some renovations, but not as much as Avalon did
08:27 bulk88 ultimately the asbestos BS killed the negotiations since the lease at the old place would have expired before "remediation" would have happened
08:27 bulk88 the abestos is BS, because if it is there, they didn't care and ripped up floors all the time for other units, and if it isn't there, they are idiots from Los Angeles
08:30 bulk88 NYC in general, some areas have always been safe, some areas were gentried so much you wouldn't belive their were dangerous 20 years ago, other areas are fake gentrified and are  dangerous, and other areas are dangerous/empty burned out lots
08:31 bulk88 if it looks like public housing, even if privately owned, if there is an opening for you, it is private public housing
08:32 bulk88 there are a bunch of complexes that are indistinguishable from public housing by photos, but you will never get in them since they are coops or market rate with criminal background check and tax return check apartments
08:33 bulk88 if the modernist brick building, is a co-op, you can remodel your apartment with very high end materials too
08:34 bulk88 fort apache (the movie) burned out buildings are gone by now, they city demolished and hired the italian mob to clean the lots to soil
08:36 bulk88 most of the arsoned buildings of NYC wound up in http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&cp=qt2dvc8vdq2g&lvl=16&dir=0&sty=o&form=LMLTCC or in http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&cp=qt16hs8v7p6y&lvl=18.24&dir=358.74&sty=o&form=LMLTCC
08:39 bulk88 http://www.nydailynews.com/archives/news/big-golf-mess-suits-mob-tee-costs-soar-charges-dirt-fly-bronx-article-1.641404
08:45 Will_the_Chill huh
08:46 Will_the_Chill arsoned why?
08:47 bulk88 http://brie.hunter.cuny.edu/hpe/2012/09/06/big-plans-for-oak-point/ the other landfill in the bing link (other than ferry point park), both are construction debris landfills that basically are filled with arson pre-WW2 tenenmant/apartment/MDU buildings rubble
08:48 bulk88 arson, when you have a fire marshall that looks the other way, is a good way to get $ out of a property that is rent controlled and you can't increase the rent with inflation
08:49 bulk88 arson also drastically reduces property tax in many cities
08:49 bulk88 if you can't rent it, tear it down (legally) or burn it
08:50 bulk88 many sunbelt cities had their downtowns demolished since property tax was assesed on "improvements" and land downtown, that was empty, is assesed, as farmland
08:50 bulk88 a parking lot, is not an "improvement" for property tax purposes
08:51 bulk88 also, if you tear down your building, and all your neighbors do too, you can expect the city, or a developer partnered with a city, will buy you out as a
08:51 bulk88 "blight area"
08:52 bulk88 many areas also underasses single family homes vs MDU/commercial/industrial/strip mapp property, since citizens vote, businesses can't
08:53 bulk88 in one town I work, nearly every building in town, is 5 stories, 1st story concrete, but made of wood
08:53 bulk88 wooden office buildings
08:53 bulk88 your chair, when you move, your floor squeeks
08:53 bulk88 WTF
08:54 bulk88 the 1st story is a car port, and on the elevator is marked "G" or "L"
08:54 bulk88 it is exempty from property tax sq ft calculations, its fucke dup
08:55 bulk88 on the property tax website, the office building is listed as "wood" "Class C construction"
08:56 bulk88 poured concrete or steel high rises are called "Class B" if they are old or "Class A" on the property tax website
08:57 bulk88 so most apartment buildings in town (this isn't NYC), are made of wood, are are 1 or 2 floors of concrete parking, and then 4 or 5 floors of wood apartments
08:57 bulk88 the elevator is in cinderblock shaft
08:58 bulk88 how about making it fair, your property tax is sq ft, concrete, steel, or wood is irrelevanet
08:59 bulk88 one solution is, land is assessed at a very high rate, buildings on the land are nearly free, property tax wise
08:59 bulk88 some northern states do that
09:00 bulk88 leaving a downtown lot vacant, or putting a parking lot will never pay the property tax for the land, only a building with humans in it will pay the property tax, then you won't see any empty lots, unless you are detroit
09:00 bulk88 (in detroit, the city's tax seized properties get zero bids each month at the court house auction)
09:04 Will_the_Chill okay then
09:06 Will_the_Chill you say you are not in NYC?
09:07 bulk88 I live in NYC, I often travel outside of NYC in the "metro area"
09:07 bulk88 or "the suburbs"
09:08 bulk88 I grew up in a suburb 1 hr away of NYC, then moved to NYC eventually
09:09 bulk88 I also have family 2 hrs away from NYC "in the sticks" where gunshots are heard all day from the neighbnors
09:09 bulk88 yes, in NY state
09:09 Will_the_Chill I like NY state
09:09 Will_the_Chill I lived in Morris and Passaic counties in NJ
09:09 Will_the_Chill I lived in the suburbs
09:10 bulk88 gun law in NY state is, each county issues its own permit, a permit from one country is never valid in another country
09:11 bulk88 in some countys, the board of the country passes an ordinence saying the county judge "must issue" permits to anyone who asks and no reason can be found for not issuing one
09:11 bulk88 *county
09:11 bulk88 but if your permit, it worth nothing and will get you a couple years in prison if you leave your county
09:12 Will_the_Chill how stop grabbing my guns if I'm a law-abiding citizen?
09:12 Will_the_Chill *how about
09:12 Will_the_Chill LOL Texas is so different
09:12 bulk88 there is the federal gun transport law in your car trunk to protect you when you move a gun between counties in NY state
09:13 bulk88 austin was awesome to see no guns signs on stores :-)
09:14 Will_the_Chill those dang stores
09:14 Will_the_Chill ;)
09:16 bulk88 in a must issue county in NY, I've gotten "stop and frisk"/"terry stopped" by cops with a friend who has a concealed carry permit, the cops dont ask to see it, they just want ID
09:17 bulk88 obviously the cops (state police) expect every to carry a gun in bear country, so they aren't interested in running serials when you tell them you are carrying
09:17 Will_the_Chill I got stopped in not-Texas and harassed where there was no "peaceable journey" protection, but I just asked really nice and they looked the other way, they could've been not nice about it
09:17 bulk88 *everyone
09:17 Will_the_Chill yes, bear country, awesome!
09:18 bulk88 AFAIK, open carry is illegal in NY state
09:19 bulk88 if you dont qualify for a concealed carry, you can't open carry
09:19 bulk88 I think vermont and alaska allow open carry with no permit
09:19 bulk88 IDK about texas
09:20 Will_the_Chill yeah everywhere is different
09:21 Will_the_Chill I guess that's cool, I just feel like it stinks to live in a place that represses gun rights, or any other rights really!
09:21 bulk88 NYC allows premise permits, which is a really weird loophole, but the risk of a burglar climbing through your window in your house is very low compared to street crime
09:25 Will_the_Chill YEAH!  street crime.
09:25 Will_the_Chill what about all the bad guys?  gotta protect yourself.
09:27 Will_the_Chill they could steal your life, or your money, or even your SOURCE CODE!
09:28 bulk88 lol
09:30 Will_the_Chill good guys and bad guys kill each other all the time, not a good thing but a real thing
09:30 bulk88 its life, %s are importants
09:30 bulk88 *important
09:31 Will_the_Chill %s?  are we talking about hashes in Perl or strings in C printf()?
09:31 bulk88 percentages
09:32 bulk88 USA is pretty good in not dieing from violence from fellow citizens or from your government, so I'm happy to be here
09:34 Will_the_Chill yeah so far, haha!
09:34 Will_the_Chill okay, USA is pretty good for WHITE GUYS to not die from violence from fellow citizens or government.
09:34 Will_the_Chill minorities, etc... not so much.  :/
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19:21 bulk88 http://iec.bg/en eu 14's proposed venue, shiny new building in the suburbs but has a 2012 opened metro station next to it
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