Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl11, 2014-04-08

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02:53 bulk88 Will_the_Chill youve got a PR
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05:41 Will_the_Chill bulk88: what now?
05:42 Will_the_Chill oh, PR stands for "pull request"?
05:44 bulk88 https://github.com/wbraswell/rperl/pull/2
05:45 Will_the_Chill got it
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05:48 bulk88_2 assuming someone has a Mingw GCC 4.8 compiler and GCC 4.8 Perl, dmake test is now fully automatic
05:48 Will_the_Chill okay we need to put that into the INSTALL notes
05:48 Will_the_Chill I will do that now
05:49 bulk88_2 I already did that
05:49 bulk88_2 I removed the part that says to manually remove RO on blib/lib, since its now automatic
05:49 Will_the_Chill right I mean we need to tell people which Windows compiler stuff they need to use
05:49 Will_the_Chill otherwise they would never know to use version 4.8.whatever
05:50 bulk88_2 yep, and they will get std::to_string link or syntax error
05:50 travis-ci [travis-ci] RPerl Commit By William N. Braswell, Jr.. The build passed. http://travis-ci.org/wbraswell/rperl/builds/22502187
05:50 bulk88_2 if they dont use 4.8
05:50 Will_the_Chill got it, I'll do it now
05:50 Will_the_Chill YAY travis Linux build passed!  :)
05:50 bulk88_2 also mention no Strawberry perl as of april 2014 has 4.8
05:50 Will_the_Chill okay
05:50 Will_the_Chill did you ever talk to the strawberry people about this?
05:50 Will_the_Chill we need to inform them!
05:51 bulk88_2 no
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05:53 bulk88 basically 99% of non-cygwin Win32 users can't run RPerl's make test, since Visual C doesn't work which rules out ActivePerl/VC Perl, (I think I tried VC 2010 a few months ago with you), and no Strawberrys work (since replacing the GCC is insanely complicated/hazard fraught, as McFist agreed)
05:54 Will_the_Chill Well 1% is much greater than 0%
05:54 Will_the_Chill and we can only go up from here!
05:55 Will_the_Chill I bet we can create a script or environment or vm that does this
05:55 Will_the_Chill or perlbrew or whatever
05:55 Will_the_Chill or just tell strawberry to fix it!
05:55 Will_the_Chill shouldn't be that big of a deal.
05:57 bulk88 strawberry needs a new release and a new GCC
05:57 Will_the_Chill bulk88: did you use either the perlbrew or local::lib methodologies shown in the INSTALL notes file?  or did you just bypass that and install things "system-wide", by which I mean system-wide within whatever environment strawberry lives?
05:57 bulk88 nope, dont know what either are
05:57 bulk88 I didn't install RPerl
05:57 bulk88 just dmake test or -Iblib/lib every time
05:58 bulk88 I've never run dmake install
05:58 Will_the_Chill uh, not sure we have any real `make install` functionality now, unless Reini added it and I never realized it
05:59 Will_the_Chill basically the local::lib and perlbrew methodologies are for people who don't want to pollute their system-shipped Perl, or don't have admin access, etc.
05:59 bulk88 make install is just copying things in blib to respective places on system disk
05:59 bulk88 in the global places
05:59 Will_the_Chill well I've never run `make install` myself
06:00 Will_the_Chill I've never installed RPerl system-wide, everything I've ever done I've kept in a local user-only directory structure
06:00 bulk88 maybe you should try it (and remember to delete it afterwards, ill explain), or disable it
06:00 Will_the_Chill simply because it is, as you can tell, somewhat complicated and experimental
06:00 Will_the_Chill well we can try it on a VM or something
06:00 Will_the_Chill I'm not gonna try it on any of my real systems just yet
06:00 bulk88 if you "install" rperl, when you dmake test, there is a risk of loading old code installed in the system dirs
06:01 bulk88 if no .pm equivelent exists anymore in blib
06:01 Will_the_Chill *nods* yes that is an issue
06:01 bulk88 but a require/use is still done somewhere
06:01 bulk88 let me see if I have to code to disable install target
06:01 bulk88 I've done it once before
06:02 bulk88 https://metacpan.org/source/BULKDD/Benchmark-Perl-CoreHashes-0.02/Makefile.PL#L23
06:03 Will_the_Chill okay let me finish this INSTALL notes update first
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06:07 Will_the_Chill # To install RPerl in Windows, start with a Strawberry Perl environment,
06:07 Will_the_Chill # then manually upgrade to a Mingw GCC 4.8 compiler and GCC 4.8 Perl runtime.
06:08 Will_the_Chill bulk88: is this accurate?
06:09 bulk88 no
06:09 bulk88 yes its accurate, but we dont say these kinds of things to the public
06:10 bulk88 its like telling someone they need to recompile and load a linux kernel driver to run rperl
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06:11 Will_the_Chill uh, well what other suggestions do you have?
06:12 Will_the_Chill I want motivated people to benefit from our small steps forward
06:13 bulk88 just word as something like "RPerl on Windows has currently been tested with Mingw64 GCC 4.8, 4.6 and older are not compatible. As of April 2014, no versions of Strawberry ship with a 4.8 series GCC."
06:13 bulk88 I'm not sure if the bug was fixed in 4.7.* or 4.8.*, that why I'm not mentioning 4.7
06:14 Will_the_Chill yeah but that sounds even MORE depressing and flogging-of-strawberry
06:14 Will_the_Chill "as of right now, you're screwed"
06:14 Will_the_Chill rather than my "hey go for it!"
06:14 Will_the_Chill or at least my "yes this is possible"
06:14 Will_the_Chill ;)
06:15 Will_the_Chill "as of right now, strawberry sucks"
06:15 Will_the_Chill haha
06:15 bulk88 4.6.3 is known broken. I was using 4.8.2.
06:15 Will_the_Chill no I totally get it, I'm discussing the wording only, not the technical underpinnings
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06:15 Will_the_Chill I'm trying to be more upbeat
06:16 bulk88 "currently been tested with" is my euphemism to not make it sound so bad
06:16 Will_the_Chill okay, I will go with your wording, you know the Perl community better than I do
06:17 bulk88 basically, you have to say no strawberry will work as "perl makefile.pl" "dmake test" standard recipie
06:17 bulk88 if someone self compiles their own GCC Win32 Perl, and that GCC is 4.8 series, all tests will pass
06:17 Will_the_Chill okay and that is not limited to Strawberry, but it would also work with ActivePerl, etc?
06:18 bulk88 people who self compile perls are basically P5P folks and maybe kmx and sisyphus
06:18 bulk88 ActivePerl is Visual C or GCC 3.something depending on the end user
06:18 bulk88 let me check what ActiveState is shipping ATM
06:21 bulk88 Mingw64 4.5.*
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06:22 Will_the_Chill okay so should I mention ActivePerl at all or just stick to your current wording?
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06:24 bulk88 its better to say what works, rather than a long long list of platform combos that dont work ;)
06:24 Will_the_Chill roger that
06:24 Will_the_Chill INSTALL notes updated
06:25 bulk88 I might try a VC newer than 2010 sometime this week and see what happens, I can't give any promises on time frame
06:25 tokuhirom Hm. `make test` passed on my linux box.
06:25 tokuhirom <censored>
06:26 tokuhirom <censored>
06:26 Will_the_Chill bulk88: awesome!
06:27 Will_the_Chill tokuhirom: SUPER AWESOME!
06:27 tokuhirom But there is a lot of warnings https://gist.github.com/tokuhirom/654b9cfc188b8b2a3c55
06:27 Will_the_Chill yes there are some warnings being emitted by Inline::CPP which Reini Urban is working to fix now
06:28 tokuhirom cool
06:28 Will_the_Chill so you may ignore those warnings, as long as all 949 tests pass
06:28 tokuhirom :)
06:28 Will_the_Chill (I think it is 949 at last count...)
06:28 Will_the_Chill :)
06:29 travis-ci [travis-ci] RPerl Commit By Will Braswell. The build passed. http://travis-ci.org/wbraswell/rperl/builds/22503425
06:30 Will_the_Chill tokuhirom: what is your interest in Perl 11?  RPerl, P2, etc?
06:31 tokuhirom Will_the_Chill: I'm interested in P2. But I'm watching rperl too :)
06:32 bulk88 kmx is the official maintainer of Strawberry, jdb is the semi-official, or atleast de-facto (since he is the most public facing Perl related Activestate employee) official maintainer of ActivePerl
06:33 bulk88 the software/building toolchain that powers Strawberry http://search.cpan.org/~kmx/Perl-Dist-Strawberry-3.013/
06:34 bulk88 someone might have to file a ticket at https://rt.cpan.org/Public/Dist/Display.html?Name=Perl-Dist-Strawberry to see what the time frame for 4.8 GCC in strawberry is
06:37 Will_the_Chill tokuhirom: okay cool, thanks for testing RPerl!  I want to collect basic info from people who have tested RPerl, such as their OS, Perl, and C++ compiler versions, is this appropriate?  Is it okay to ask you for this info?
06:37 Will_the_Chill bulk88: Makefile.PL updated to disable `make install`
06:38 Will_the_Chill bulk88: I don't have a CPAN account just yet, do you want to file the Strawberry ticket, or should I try to do it?
06:38 tokuhirom Will_the_Chill: I used CentOS 6.5 & g++ (GCC) 4.7.2 20121015 (Red Hat 4.7.2-5) & perl v5.19.10.
06:38 bulk88 do you have a PAUSE account?
06:39 travis-ci [travis-ci] RPerl Commit By Will Braswell. The build passed. http://travis-ci.org/wbraswell/rperl/builds/22503788
06:40 bulk88 rt.cpan.org also has a email gateway as described at https://rt.cpan.org/
06:41 Will_the_Chill tokuhirom: thank you!  :)
06:41 Will_the_Chill bulk88: um no I guess when I said I have no CPAN account I probably meant I have no PAUSE account
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06:42 bulk88 your wording is more persuasive than mine, so its better if you push for it than me, some people mistake me for being an offshore programmer occasionally :-/
06:42 Will_the_Chill roger that
06:43 bulk88 "Please deliver estimated timeframe for support of product GCC 4.8."
06:43 bulk88 *faceplam*
06:46 bulk88 ill make a WAG and say Strawberry 5.20 will have a GCC 4.8, since its unlikely for a maint Strawberry Perl to wind up with a new GCC, since that would break all already compiled XS code, IDK what kmx's binary compatibility policy is for his S Perl tho
06:47 bulk88 what would be a problem is if a GCC upgrade for Strawberry is scheduled for 5.22, then that is atleast 1.2 years away
06:47 Will_the_Chill yeah that would stink
06:50 Will_the_Chill bulk88: for my new PAUSE account, what should I put as my "full name (civil name)"?
06:50 Will_the_Chill Will Braswell?
06:50 Will_the_Chill William Braswell?
06:50 Will_the_Chill William N. Braswell, Jr.?
06:51 bulk88 it can be fake/not a real name
06:52 Will_the_Chill Will the Chill?
06:52 bulk88 im not sure what the style is
06:52 bulk88 ill show you a list
06:53 Will_the_Chill also, where should I write the list of supported platforms for RPerl?  in the INSTALL notes?  README.md?
06:54 bulk88 http://www.cpan.org/authors/00whois.html
06:54 bulk88 no numbers allowed in the username
06:55 bulk88 "WLVERINE  Will MacBraswald, Jr. <wlverine@nac.net>" relative? lol
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06:56 Will_the_Chill uh yeah, never used that account, having trouble getting into the e-mail address
06:57 Will_the_Chill I can try again maybe
06:57 Will_the_Chill is it possible to change the name associated w/ the PAUSE account?
06:57 bulk88 thats seriously you? i was jking
06:58 Will_the_Chill it was many years ago
06:58 Will_the_Chill already talked to mst about it
06:58 Will_the_Chill he suggested getting a new PAUSE account
06:58 bulk88 what a coincidence
06:59 Will_the_Chill yeah it was an old handle
06:59 bulk88 I was 1000% sure that wasnt you and it turned out it was
06:59 Will_the_Chill LOL funny  :D
07:00 bulk88 I'd use wbraswell since thats your github name and you aren't known to use internet names AFAIK
07:02 bulk88 willchill or WTC (my name for you) are other ideas
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07:02 bulk88 no nunbers no punc
07:04 bulk88 if it was me, I'd reclaim the old PAUSE account
07:04 bulk88 just my opinion
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07:38 Will_the_Chill bulk88: okay I was able to get back in to my old e-mail account and the old PAUSE account
07:38 Will_the_Chill I can't change the old handle of "wlverine", so I have requested the unused PAUSE account be deleted, and I will create a new one
07:38 Will_the_Chill what is wild is that the old e-mail address is still around after about 25 years
07:39 Will_the_Chill AND I was able to even log into the webmail interface, considering it has about 69K unread e-mails in the inbox
07:39 Will_the_Chill AND there is a brand new e-mail stating that they are discontinuing the old e-mail service in Sept, and if I didn't confirm that I was using the account by April 30 then the account would be deleted
07:39 Will_the_Chill so if I didn't do it now then I might've never been able to do it
07:39 Will_the_Chill weird
07:39 Will_the_Chill :)
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07:45 bulk88 you have a long job ahead of you to read 69K emails, how many christmases?
07:49 Will_the_Chill haha exactly!
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09:44 travis-ci [travis-ci] RPerl Commit By Will Braswell. The build passed. http://travis-ci.org/wbraswell/rperl/builds/22514260
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