Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl11, 2015-05-15

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Time Nick Message
01:25 ToApolytoXaos joined #perl11
01:48 willthechill joined #perl11
02:59 ToApolytoXaos good morning from Cyprus willthechill
03:03 willthechill ToApolytoXaos: and a good Cyprus morning to you too, my friend!  :)
03:04 ToApolytoXaos I have finally understood the whole concept of RPerl and I will surely going to do my best to learn it!
03:04 ToApolytoXaos indeed Perl core is a mess
03:05 ToApolytoXaos not so messy as I expected it, like C macros, but still a mess
03:05 ToApolytoXaos as soon as I finish with my Perl studies, I will start slowly-slowly experimenting with RPerl
03:06 ToApolytoXaos for instance, i wanted to ask you
03:06 ToApolytoXaos is RPerl going to have a standard set of libraries, like C++'s STL?
03:09 willthechill yes I will work to implement a standard set of libraries in RPerl
03:09 ToApolytoXaos oh my...I'm going to get ecstatic now lol
03:09 willthechill if you think Perl 5 core is "not as messy as you expected", then you are either a super-genius C programmer, or not looking hard enough
03:10 ToApolytoXaos i'll take the latter :D
03:10 willthechill Perl 5 core is "intractably overcomplex"
03:10 willthechill to quote myself  ;)
03:11 ToApolytoXaos let's give it a syndrome; the hairball syndrome
03:11 ToApolytoXaos sticky, ugly, and messy as hell
03:11 willthechill yes, hairball
03:11 ToApolytoXaos our code will be Singapore noodles; good looking, tasty, and spicy!
03:11 willthechill as past Pumpking has referred to Perl 5 as "an old rusty pickup truck which people are trying to improve by randomly shooting it with paintball guns"
03:12 willthechill LOL
03:12 willthechill I won't say who told me that quote, but it is a famous important Perl person  ;)
03:12 ToApolytoXaos hahaha :D that's Randal's quote for sure!
03:13 willthechill haha yes except we should probably avoid anything that seems like "spaghetti" or "noodles" because it is not good to be seen as spaghetti code
03:13 willthechill nope not Mr. Schwartz
03:13 willthechill good guess though
03:13 ToApolytoXaos d foy?
03:15 willthechill haha I'm not going to tell you!  :P
03:15 willthechill it is not polite
03:15 willthechill :)
03:15 willthechill anyway, the point is the Perl 5 core is bad bad bad
03:16 willthechill brb
03:16 ToApolytoXaos no worries
03:50 willthechill back
03:51 ToApolytoXaos welcome back
03:51 ToApolytoXaos can you show me a Perl 5 core sample? I might looked elsewhere and saw something totally different
03:53 willthechill http://perl5.git.perl.org/perl.git/blob_plain/HEAD:/pad.c
03:53 willthechill here is the latest code tree, click on the "raw" link next to any files
03:53 willthechill http://perl5.git.perl.org/perl.git/tree
03:54 willthechill I hardly need to go on, but here's a link to op.c just for extra fun
03:54 willthechill http://perl5.git.perl.org/perl.git/blob_plain/HEAD:/op.c
03:54 willthechill it is, to say the least, nearly incomprehensible.
03:56 ToApolytoXaos lol that's quite clean code and well documented. i guess you haven't seen a really obfuscated C code...
03:58 willthechill WOW well then maybe you should join the Perl 5 core team, haha!
03:58 willthechill if you think that code is easy to work with, then you are a C programming genius!
03:58 willthechill I mean seriously, there are only a few people in the world who can actually fix and improve the Perl 5 core
03:59 willthechill perhaps you fail to see the overall complexity?
03:59 ToApolytoXaos no, i haven't failed
03:59 willthechill wow well then you are a better programmer than I am!
03:59 ToApolytoXaos don't say that man :/
03:59 ToApolytoXaos i just happened to work a lot with C and C++
04:00 ToApolytoXaos for the past 12+ years of my programming experience, i have seen disgusting things lol
04:00 ToApolytoXaos but this one, it's more or less alright
04:00 willthechill wow well that is great
04:00 willthechill I am very impressed with what you are telling me
04:01 ToApolytoXaos i do understand what you are saying
04:01 ToApolytoXaos it is indeed a mess
04:01 ToApolytoXaos and not clear enough of what it does
04:01 ToApolytoXaos but only three things come straight in mind
04:01 willthechill well what I'm saying is that nobody understands what the Perl 5 core does anymore
04:01 ToApolytoXaos 1) rewrite in in RPerl; a long term process
04:02 ToApolytoXaos 2) break down the humongous files to smaller ones, like _fileFoo_part_a.c and so on
04:02 ToApolytoXaos and 3) reimplement it slowly-slowly in C++03
04:03 willthechill your option number 3 would make no sense because RPerl will generate C++ as output already, no need to write C++ by hand
04:03 ToApolytoXaos very true
04:03 ToApolytoXaos but i meant, to take the existing code and tweak it mildly to compile with a C++ compiler
04:03 willthechill option number 2, I don't think breaking down large files into smaller files will address the high magic of the Perl 5 core in any substantial way
04:03 ToApolytoXaos unless it does already and did not notice it
04:04 ToApolytoXaos option #2 will make things clearer, not erasing the magic
04:04 willthechill I do not believe that tweaking the existing Perl 5 C code to use C++ will help in any substantial way
04:04 ToApolytoXaos and now you are contradicting yourself :D
04:04 ToApolytoXaos hahaha
04:04 ToApolytoXaos let's rewrite it in Flat Assembler then1
04:04 ToApolytoXaos !
04:05 willthechill the existing Perl 5 code needs to be deleted, not upgraded to C++
04:05 ToApolytoXaos jokes aside, i understand your concerns
04:05 ToApolytoXaos it's indeed a messy code base
04:05 willthechill well, I agree if by "messy" you mean "overcomplex"
04:06 willthechill I don't want any of that Perl 5 code to be left, eventually
04:06 ToApolytoXaos let's agree to super-duper-multidimensionally-complex
04:06 ToApolytoXaos how's that?
04:06 willthechill all that C code should be deleted
04:06 willthechill yes, *complex will do
04:06 willthechill :)
04:06 ToApolytoXaos the parts that should be deleted are the callbacks
04:06 ToApolytoXaos that's a real chaos
04:07 ToApolytoXaos if we could use C++11 lambdas, that would be great
04:07 ToApolytoXaos to replace POD structures with hybrid structures
04:07 ToApolytoXaos that replace callbacks with lambdas
04:07 ToApolytoXaos that would be kickassing
04:08 ToApolytoXaos oh shoot! i need to go to work man!
04:08 ToApolytoXaos i will see you hopefully tonight
04:08 ToApolytoXaos keep up the good work bro, cheers!
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07:18 travis-ci RPerl build passed. Will Braswell says 'Data Types, Test type() and types() and scope_type_name_value(), Part 5'
07:18 travis-ci http://travis-ci.org/wbraswell/rperl/builds/62660631 https://github.com/wbraswell/rperl/compare/f9ea0c7b48b4...f62d88bd539b
07:42 willthechill yay!
07:43 willthechill bulk88: pretty please can you help solve the Windows issue so we can get RPerl to test and build?  :)
07:43 willthechill is there some way I can solve the problem using Linux?
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