Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl11, 2015-07-05

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Time Nick Message
04:02 willthechill RPerl v1.0 is now on CPAN
04:02 willthechill cpanm RPerl
04:02 willthechill :)
04:18 travis-ci RPerl build passed. Will Braswell says 'Generator, C++ Ops C++ Types, Misc, Part 11'
04:18 travis-ci https://travis-ci.org/wbraswell/rperl/builds/69589003 https://github.com/wbraswell/rperl/compare/20778a406fe8...66c1b1a54920
04:18 willthechill sweet
04:40 travis-ci RPerl build passed. Will Braswell says 'MAJOR MILESTONE!! RPERL V1.0 FULL RELEASE TO CPAN!!!'
04:40 travis-ci https://travis-ci.org/wbraswell/rperl/builds/69589559 https://github.com/wbraswell/rperl/compare/66c1b1a54920...34a4a0a58c8c
07:45 rurban joined #perl11
08:10 travis-ci RPerl build passed. Will Braswell says 'CPAN v1.0 Release, Misc, Part 3'
08:10 travis-ci https://travis-ci.org/wbraswell/rperl/builds/69596798 https://github.com/wbraswell/rperl/compare/34a4a0a58c8c...654f3b4ca96b
09:29 rurban joined #perl11
12:19 Sneyla joined #perl11
12:21 Sneyla hi anyone here :)
12:48 ToApolytoXaos joined #perl11
13:04 ToApolytoXaos greetings willthechill
13:04 ToApolytoXaos congrats for the release :)
13:04 ToApolytoXaos by the way, README.md has the following message "CPAN Distribution Release, RPerl v1.0 Beta 3"
13:06 Sneyla yes congratz,just install it
13:10 Sneyla it's possible to compile perl to c with that's module?
13:11 ToApolytoXaos that's the objective of RPerl
13:11 ToApolytoXaos to right in restricted Perl and then converts it to C++ and then that code is translated to XS
13:11 ToApolytoXaos to *write
13:12 * ToApolytoXaos has a serious issue right now with his typing, because his fingers do not collaborate with brain lol.
13:13 Sneyla i dont really get it,lol
13:13 ToApolytoXaos you write your code in RPerl, which is Restricted Perl
13:13 ToApolytoXaos which means certain slow parts of language are not used
13:13 ToApolytoXaos and that code gets translated to C++ code
13:14 ToApolytoXaos and that code with its turn it gets translated to XS which is C code for Perl's modular mechanism
13:15 Sneyla oh ok,i get it
13:16 Sneyla but did u know any perl compiler?but i dont want compile it to exe..coz i run it it in linux
13:16 Sneyla just want to hide my source code
13:18 ToApolytoXaos hide from whom?
13:18 ToApolytoXaos who's supposed to see your Perl code anyway?
13:18 ToApolytoXaos even if you "hide" your code by converting it to a binary file, can't I disassemble it and produce a desired output?
13:20 Sneyla at least scriptkiddies dont edit my code,lol
13:22 ToApolytoXaos you are making any sense right now I'm afraid
13:23 ToApolytoXaos who's going to access your code?
13:23 ToApolytoXaos and from where?
13:23 ToApolytoXaos you are *not making
13:24 Sneyla in my community bro,community geek here
13:25 ToApolytoXaos I would appreciated it if you were referring to me as ToApolytoXaos rather than as "bro". thank you
13:26 ToApolytoXaos and being geek and not knowing the necessary things about programming and such is not a good image for you I'm afraid.
13:26 ToApolytoXaos how many years are you programming?
13:26 Sneyla ok ToApolytoXaos,sorry
13:27 Sneyla im new,i started perl about sixth month a go maybe
13:28 ToApolytoXaos you don't need RPerl for now
13:28 ToApolytoXaos just learn enough Perl, use it for multiple projects, understand for what situations to use and why, and then you decide whether to stick with Perl or switch to more strict languages like C-domain ones
13:30 Sneyla ok ToApolytoXaos,thanks
13:31 ToApolytoXaos as soon as you understand the cons and pros of Perl and then you test in parallel for instance, C or C++, then by all means you will see the natural need to use your existing knowledge of Perl but with the production of programs that run as fast as C
13:31 ToApolytoXaos because that is RPerl all about
13:32 ToApolytoXaos you use your Perl knowledge to produce C++ code that gets transcompiled as XS code and use it with high-magic Perl code
13:33 ToApolytoXaos it's too early for now for you to understand all this. Just stick with Perl for now, Modern Perl of course!
13:34 ToApolytoXaos there you go Sneyla http://learn.perl.org/
13:35 Sneyla yeah man,thanks
13:36 Sneyla what diffrent modern perl and old perl ToApolytoXaos?
13:47 rurban perl-compiler: http://search.cpan.org/dist/B-C/
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15:27 rurban joined #perl11
19:40 willthechill Sneyla: hello
19:42 willthechill ToApolytoXaos: hi
19:43 ToApolytoXaos greetings willthechill
19:49 willthechill Sneyla: if you are trying to hide the source code of your high-magic Perl software, please use rurban's B::C compiler    http://search.cpan.org/dist/B-C/
19:50 willthechill RPerl also hides your source code, but only for low-magic Perl software;  RPerl is an optimizing compiler, B::C is not an optimizing compiler, B::C is ONLY for hiding your source code
20:27 bulk88 IMO you can't hide source code with any C compiler, a disasembler can turn the code back into psuedo-C
20:28 bulk88 you need a C compiler that produces obfuscated machine code, such as jumping into the middle of an opcode with the last 2-3 bytes being the real instruction, and the first 2-3 bytes, and the while 6 bytes being a distraction
20:28 bulk88 *whole 6 byte instruction
20:30 willthechill bulk88: you don't count as a normal person, your skills are too high to be applicable to a conversation about general computing tactics
20:30 willthechill in other words, just because bulk88 can do something doesn't mean mortal humans can do it
20:35 bulk88 what you really need is self modifying code, except for the first couple asm instructions, the rest of it is decoded a couple ops or lines at a time as you go
20:37 bulk88 self modifying code is suicidal for CPU performance, x86 CPUs except to pre-read and run instructions in parallel without you being aware of it on an ASM level, the CPU will be throwing internal SIGILL firmware instructions all the time and processing them in firmware, then resuming execution at the last formal execution location
20:37 bulk88 *expect
20:38 willthechill yes that is a pretty extreme solution
21:49 basiliscos joined #perl11
22:03 chansen joined #perl11
22:04 bpmedley joined #perl11
22:05 bpmedley Howdy, RPerl looks super sweet; what OS and Perl version should I install under?
22:12 ToApolytoXaos greetings bpmedley. I use it under GNU / Linux Debian testing 64-bit with perl 5.20.2 and works just fine.
22:12 bpmedley Let me try my Linux VM
22:13 ToApolytoXaos I have also tested it under antergos 64-bit and works just as well, with a couple of warnings
22:14 willthechill bpmedley: I am the creator of RPerl, and I use Ubuntu v14.04 with Perl v5.18.2
22:18 ToApolytoXaos willthechill: If I were you, I would have said "I'm the artist who designed it" :D, because it's a beauty ^_^
22:24 willthechill haha thanks I try!
22:25 willthechill bpmedley: it should work with any Linux using Perl v5.10 through v5.22, as well as Windows using Strawberry Perl v5.20 or higher
22:26 bpmedley willthechill: OS X?
22:26 willthechill ah yes, I think it works in OS X as well, rurban is our only OS X tester so far
22:26 willthechill he is not online right now
22:29 naptastic joined #perl11
22:32 ToApolytoXaos willthechill: have we resolve the warning issue with 5.22?
22:33 naptastic HAI ERRYBAWDY
22:35 bpmedley http://pastie.org/pastes/10274764/text <-- My g++ doesn't have -std=c++11, is that the issue?
22:41 ToApolytoXaos willthechill: on my windows xp with strawberry perl 5.20.2 does not compile :/
22:41 willthechill naptastic: hi there!
22:42 naptastic hey willthechill :)
22:42 naptastic I'm off to dinner with a friend who's a Ruby and Javascript enthusiast.
22:42 naptastic TTYL
22:42 willthechill ToApolytoXaos: I disabled the offending v5.22 files, please try again
22:42 willthechill naptastic: laters!
22:42 willthechill naptastic: be sure to convert him/her to Perl, haha!  ;)
22:42 ToApolytoXaos willthechill: on debian it works fine; on strawberry perl I get the error messages with 5.20.2
22:43 willthechill ToApolytoXaos: please try with the latest github RPerl code with Perl v5.22 to make sure I resolved the v5.22 issues
22:43 ToApolytoXaos alright
22:43 willthechill ToApolytoXaos: please post details of Windows error messages here or in pastebin if they are long
22:44 ToApolytoXaos sure thing; let me pastebin the strawberry issue first and then the antergos
22:45 willthechill sounds great!
22:47 ToApolytoXaos here you go http://paste.debian.net/279459/
22:55 davido__ joined #perl11
22:55 willthechill ToApolytoXaos: checking now
22:56 willthechill ToApolytoXaos: the errors are in Inline::CPP, not RPerl
22:57 ToApolytoXaos are alright.
22:58 willthechill I have just put your pastebin and basic info into #inline and we will see what they want us to do
22:58 willthechill probably make a github issue
22:58 willthechill but not sure yet
22:59 bulk88 i use uname='Win32 strawberry-perl 5.20.1.1 #1 Mon Sep 15 18:25:23 2014 i386' and it was passong on Rperl
23:00 willthechill bulk88: check out ToApolytoXaos last pastebin above
23:00 willthechill if you haven't already
23:04 stephen joined #perl11
23:04 bulk88 I am using "gcc version 4.8.3 (i686-posix-sjlj, built by strawberryperl.com project)"
23:05 bulk88 IDK if 5.20.0 vs 5.20.1/.2 is making a difference or not, IDK if strawberry updates GCC version on maint releases of strawberry
23:06 bulk88 "Unrecognized escape \D passed through at (eval 12) line 3." file path problems
23:07 bulk88 as in C:\Documents and Settings\username\.cpan\build
23:07 bulk88 I've never built rperl from a directory with spaces
23:08 bulk88 all the cpan tools use your home dir on windows, which has spaces
23:11 stephen it's not something I am doing myself, but the default installation
23:12 bulk88 the failures are in Inline::CPP, not RPerl
23:12 bulk88 stephen????
23:12 stephen even though strawberryperl can be found in C:\ the .cpanm can be located in %HOMEPATH% directory
23:12 stephen yeah, I changed my nick
23:12 bulk88 you are ToApolytoXaos?
23:13 stephen was lol
23:13 bulk88 download the iNlineCPP tarball and build test install it from a path without spaces
23:13 bulk88 dont use a cpan tool
23:14 willthechill I'm here but on the phone right this minute
23:14 stephen I'm confused; and how am I supposed to test RPerl on windows?
23:14 bulk88 do you know how to install a module from CPAN by downloading the tarball?
23:14 willthechill stephen: use Strawberry Perl v5.20 or higher
23:15 willthechill then type `cpan RPerl`
23:15 stephen my version *was* 5.20.2 and I'm currently setting up 5.22.1
23:15 bulk88 I think Inline::CPP cant pass its tests if it is built form a dir with spaces
23:16 bulk88 one I manually install all the deps, regardless of test fails, RPerl passes
23:16 bulk88 *once
23:17 willthechill stephen: bulk88 is the expert in Windows
23:17 bulk88 RPerl cant pass its tests from a path with spaces http://paste.scsys.co.uk/492274
23:18 stephen I see
23:18 bulk88 it is a EUMM or Inline::something or RPerl problem
23:18 bulk88 I dont really care, since no unix devs care about spaces in paths
23:19 bulk88 mohawk worked/is working on toolchain support for spaces in paths, IDK how far his efforts got
23:20 bulk88 the nickname of the effort was "perl in space" as in "pigs in space"
23:20 bulk88 not even p5p perl can pass its tests in space
23:20 willthechill I love Pigs In Space!
23:20 willthechill but spaces in filenames and dirnames are an abomination, haha!  :P
23:21 bulk88 what about newline or backspace in your path?
23:22 willthechill um I think those are both EXTRA EVIL
23:22 willthechill how about just [\w-_\.]
23:22 bulk88 Microsoft finally captiulated to spaces, Vista and up use C:/Users/accountname
23:23 bulk88 its a symlink to C:/Documents and Settings or the other way around
23:23 bulk88 [\w-_\.] my eyes can't parse that
23:23 bulk88 is that a regexp?
23:24 willthechill it is a regex character classs
23:24 willthechill it means word characters (a-zA-Z0-9), hyphen, underscore, and dot
23:24 willthechill those are the only valid characters which should be in filenames IMNSHO
23:26 stephen eeeem...so, what am I supposed to do now that SP sets up .cpanm in %HOMEPATH% which is the huge directory with spaces? :/
23:26 bulk88 you just told the %94.57 of the world to screw themselves
23:26 bulk88 unicode/etc
23:27 bulk88 even latin 1
23:27 bulk88 stephen download the tarballs, extract to a dir without any spaces
23:28 bulk88 perl makefile.pl<enter> etc
23:28 stephen ok
23:30 bulk88 http://www.cpantesters.org/cpan/report/748a231c-7c4f-1014-b9d8-2b0848f0d22a notice "    PERL5LIB = C:\STRAWB~1\cpan\build\Pegex-0.59-F7U9ql/blib/arch"
23:30 bulk88 that strawberry was modified somehiow to not use the home dir
23:32 bulk88 afk
23:32 stephen I have noticed now that as you have shared above, the cpan is located in C:\StrawberryPerl\cpan\ whereas cpanm to %homepath%
23:33 stephen maybe I could give it a shot?
23:33 willthechill stephen: bulk88 is away from keyboard, sorry I can't help you in this case, I don't know anything about Windows  :/
23:33 willthechill I'm sure he'll be back soon'ish  :)
23:34 stephen alright

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